It seems to have been done to death this topic but I am hoping to possibly give it a new spin after a conversation today with my dad sparked by the death of John Travoltas young un.

Now one of the main thrusts of the arguement against scientology is that it's created by a fiction writer, this is rather valid as a criticism however most of the Torah, bible etc are fictionalised, none of it is literal truth but a series of instructional tales.

That scientology is a secretive organisation, so was christianity in the Roman era which was about the same period in its evolution as scientology is at this moment, when you have a new faith you are rather nervous of having it tested until you have everything set in stone. Doctorine takes hundreds of years to form not 50!

They take peoples money which makes them evil of course no religion has ever taken advantage of it's believers except for the crusades, tithing, the fact that pope lives in a palace whilst the poorest adherents of Roman catholacism live in shanty towns and how often have you placed money on the collection plate in church?

It may be wacky and to some incidious and evil to others but why are there imaginary friends singled out for ridicule versus everyone elses? Speaking as a Discordian I much prefer disorganised religion!

Kinda relevant perhaps; http://existentialistgamer.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/on-prejudice/

I think when you have "Celebrity Centers" you sort of lose all the high ground on calling yourself a religion.

The other mainstream religions have been consecrated by time, followers of these bygone ways who scoff at Scientology don't seem to realise that a longer time line doesn't equal 'more legitimate'!

To sum up, their all bollocks

Personally, I don't like any religion at all, but what specifically irks me about scientology is this L. Ron Hubbard quote: "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion."

That line to me points out how much scientology really is a scam.

electric discordian:

Now one of the main thrusts of the arguement against scientology is that it's created by a fiction writer, this is rather valid as a criticism however most of the Torah, bible etc are fictionalised, none of it is literal truth but a series of instructional tales.

That scientology is a secretive organisation, so was christianity in the Roman era which was about the same period in its evolution as scientology is at this moment, when you have a new faith you are rather nervous of having it tested until you have everything set in stone. Doctorine takes hundreds of years to form not 50!

They take peoples money which makes them evil of course no religion has ever taken advantage of it's believers except for the crusades, tithing, the fact that pope lives in a palace whilst the poorest adherents of Roman catholacism live in shanty towns and how often have you placed money on the collection plate in church?

It may be wacky and to some incidious and evil to others but why are there imaginary friends singled out for ridicule versus everyone elses? Speaking as a Discordian I much prefer disorganised religion!

Okay...

1) It is created by a Fiction Writer who admitted that he wanted to create a religion to make himself rich.

2) It's a secret organization that violently quashes contrary opinion whenever it can, hence the "anonymous" protest by 4chan, because that is the only safe way to criticize scientology in the public sphere.

3) The entire basis of Scientology is money, paying money is the basis of worship, the more money you give to the church the better a scientologist you are, since you can't learn "the truths" without donating a small fortune.

4) Ask anyone around here, I consider ALL religions to be fallacious.

Well, this is the first anti-Scientology piece I ever saw but since then I've read countless articles on how the religion can be dangerous. Especially the whole anti-psychiatrist dogma that they spout. That can be especially dangerous.

There are several countries that don't actually recognize scientology as a religion at all, but rather a business.

Other holes in the "faith" come from the fact that, before the faith was created, the founder was frequently quoted as saying that if he ever wanted to make it big, he'd just start a religion.

Also, the belief structure is fucking retarded. Like so retarded that most people who hear them laugh and then say, "Okay, really now, what do they actually believe?"

Also, they killed Issac Hayes.

Just kidding about that last one.

I think.

- J

tiredinnuendo:

Also, the belief structure is fucking retarded. Like so retarded that most people who hear them laugh and then say, "Okay, really now, what do they actually believe."

I think they believe that we are all "sun-babies", or something of that sort, don't they?

My personal favorite summary of Scientology

http://www.trilulilu.ro/semaca/97de5b59225709

electric discordian:
They take peoples money which makes them evil of course no religion has ever taken advantage of it's believers except for the crusades, tithing, the fact that pope lives in a palace whilst the poorest adherents of Roman catholacism live in shanty towns and how often have you placed money on the collection plate in church?

I don't think the problem is that they require donations. In Scientology, the more you pay, the more powerful you become within the organisation, and the more you learn about the supposed truth, which is counter-religious.

I personally don't think the Thetan/alien idea is any more ridiculous than a ghost impregnating a virgin with a child who'd later walk on water and cure lepers.

Scientology is just a bunch of deluded kleptomaniacs.

PedroSteckecilo:

2) It's a secret organization that violently quashes contrary opinion whenever it can, hence the "anonymous" protest by 4chan, because that is the only safe way to criticize scientology in the public sphere.

That reminds me, a couple other /b/tards and I are having a protest against the Church of Scientology this Thursday in New York City if anyone's interested in joining us. All you need is a guy fawkes mask. We're going to meet outside the church at 10, but a bunch of us will be at Dunkin Donuts by 8. I hope to see some of you there.

curlycrouton:

tiredinnuendo:

Also, the belief structure is fucking retarded. Like so retarded that most people who hear them laugh and then say, "Okay, really now, what do they actually believe."

I think they believe that we are all "sun-babies", or something of that sort, don't they?

May as well just give you this. Lots of people like South park, after all. Here's the breakdown in L. Ron Hubbard's own voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bzcGK9xqEU

- J

electric discordian:
It seems to have been done to death this topic but I am hoping to possibly give it a new spin after a conversation today with my dad sparked by the death of John Travoltas young un.

Now one of the main thrusts of the arguement against scientology is that it's created by a fiction writer, this is rather valid as a criticism however most of the Torah, bible etc are fictionalised, none of it is literal truth but a series of instructional tales.

That scientology is a secretive organisation, so was christianity in the Roman era which was about the same period in its evolution as scientology is at this moment, when you have a new faith you are rather nervous of having it tested until you have everything set in stone. Doctorine takes hundreds of years to form not 50!

They take peoples money which makes them evil of course no religion has ever taken advantage of it's believers except for the crusades, tithing, the fact that pope lives in a palace whilst the poorest adherents of Roman catholacism live in shanty towns and how often have you placed money on the collection plate in church?

It may be wacky and to some incidious and evil to others but why are there imaginary friends singled out for ridicule versus everyone elses? Speaking as a Discordian I much prefer disorganised religion!

I would have to say that the main reason why it gets harped on so much is, even though it has similarities to other religions, this one is incredibly new and recent compared to those. I'm sure the people who protest and are against Scientology would have done the same against Christianity if they had lived back then instead of today.

First of all, ah, nevermind. Go get your theatons checked, and after that look up the BBC's mini documentary on Scientology. Maybe you will see why "the universe hates the religion." It's not because so many make fun of their origins stories etc. It's because they are fucking scary! Seriously, go watch that episode of Panorama. I'm sure you can find it online somewhere.

P.S. Please refrain from making dumb parallels to Christianity during Roman times. Everyone tries to do this and its tiresome. Since my degree is in both Classics and Religion, these particular wildly obtuse or inaccurate arguments make me cringe. Also, if that was entirely in context and true, I still think more people get down on Christians on a day to day basis than Scientologists.

Surely there are better things to hate though, like the westborough baptist church.
I mean scientolgy maybe ridiulously dumb but they haven't done anything horrible. Plus it makes some (Tom Cruise) happy.

Because its a ball of idiocracy, which kills people.

1) The organised flavour religion resembles a dangerous cult more than it does all but the most fundamentalist flavours of other religions. See the previously cited evidence from other posters. All religions like to pretend they have secrets at some point in their history, the secret to heaven/enlightenment/tasty food, whatever the secret they like to pretend they have it. Most religions don't, however blackmail, extort, threatern and generally make life hell for (and allegedally kill) members of their faith who have a crisis of faith. Yes, so do, but these are normally the lunatic fringe elements, or the elements existing in barbaric medieval systems.

2) Scientology is silly. Even mormonism which was founded by a convicted fraudster makes sense, or at least more sense than Scientology.

Personally what gets my goat is the science part in the title. That and their denial of psychological illnesses...

The Rockerfly:
Surely there are better things to hate though, like the westborough baptist church.
I mean scientolgy maybe ridiulously dumb but they haven't done anything horrible. Plus it makes some (Tom Cruise) happy.

Members who want to leave are threatend, they take money from people by making them feel bad about themselves often making people destitute and there was a case when a woman was in the street begging for help. She was in one of the higher ranks of scientology.

After she was taken to hospital she was almost immediatly released as several scientologists took her back home. She died a few weeks later due to dehydration and blood clots. Not to say they didn't take her to a hospital, not the closest one, but one with a scientologist doctor 45miles away. the closest was about 10 miles.

I will source this but i'm tired at the moment and can't be asked to dig through youtube.

Oh and then there is their constant attacks on freespeech. How many times have they banned the tom cruise video?

Well first of all, they were founded by an author who famously said 'if you want to make alot of money, start a religion' (probably paraphrasing).[/quote]

Yeah I think it was more along the lines of: writing a penny a word is for chumps, if you want to make millions start a religion.
Coming from a science fiction writer.

bad rider:

The Rockerfly:
Surely there are better things to hate though, like the westborough baptist church.
I mean scientolgy maybe ridiulously dumb but they haven't done anything horrible. Plus it makes some (Tom Cruise) happy.

Members who want to leave are threatend, they take money from people by making them feel bad about themselves often making people destitute and there was a case when a woman was in the street begging for help. She was in one of the higher ranks of scientology.

After she was taken to hospital she was almost immediatly released as several scientologists took her back home. She died a few weeks later due to dehydration and blood clots. Not to say they didn't take her to a hospital, not the closest one, but one with a scientologist doctor 45miles away. the closest was about 10 miles.

I will source this but i'm tired at the moment and can't be asked to dig through youtube.

Oh and then there is their constant attacks on freespeech. How many times have they banned the tom cruise video?

Okay then those are a few good reasons. I have learnt something new today

'cause it's wrong, it's WRONG! (As you read that, imagine Cartman saying it in your head)

From what I understand, Scientologists believe in something or other called Xenu, who is basically Satan, except he can be bribed with Human currency to make people not feel bad.
This apparently is some kind of secret that costs a lot of money and dedication to find out, and when some guy found it out to post it o the internet, the Church of $cientology sued him for all he was worth.

On top of literally every post already, I also love how they go around filming every conversation so they can sue your or extort you if they need to.

I just can't see something being a religion when it charges people to join it, even cults are free to join........

Since I looked up Xenu, I'm pretty convinced that the whole idea is bat-shit crazy.

Let me just offer a few things.

1) If I want to know more about my religion, all I have to do is go ask my paster. He has no problem sitting down and having a long talk about it with me provided he has the time, and if he does not he will make the time for later. He will answer every question I have regardless of what I have given to the church and will even lend me books if I ask (And he has so this is not just an exaggeration). Further if I then relay this information to others and inform him of that he has absolutely no problem with it. Further STILL He is more than willing to accept the fact that I do not accept the denominations stance on many issues. He will even go so far as to offer help when it comes to my research.

This is the first Criteria I think a religion must have, being open to all without money as a factor.

2) If I give money to the church I know exactly where its going. I know why they are collecting it before hand. If they are fixing up the church I can not only ask the paster how much they got but odds are good talk to the contractor if I really wanted to (Odds are it would be my stepdad or a friend of his anyways). If its going towards mission work odds are good I went to school or grew up around some of the people going and they will TELL me the kinds of things that money went for when they get back. In other words I have the right to know where the finances I donate go and they have no problem telling me.

3) If I want to leave (And I did at one point) Then there are no consequences. Yes I get the "Why didn't I raise my daughter better" talk from my mom for about a week or two and its obvious it hurts her a bit but the church does not send anyone to harass me or to try to distance me from my family or friends. I was still the same person. When I eventually came back on my terms and with some ideas that they don't agree with nobody really cared. Sure a few of the older uptight people talked but they do that for everything.

I'm not saying my church is super wonderful, or that issues don't about in the other religions of today. However I am going to say that any organization that imposes its religious outlook as absolute fact to the point of zealotry against others is wrong. Any organization that takes your money without giving you exact knowledge of what its being used for in detail is wrong. Most of all though is that any organization that would put people at risk or try to separate them from family and friends either for joining it or for leaving it is wrong.

If people want to believe in the tenants of Scientology thats ok. That is their religious freedom. However the actual organization of Scientology would only really be acceptable in the middle ages. Its dangerous, its subversive and its wrong. I will say the same about any Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu organization that behaves that way (and I can name quite a few). I can say the same about Any religion period that is so abusive to both its members and to non members. I would argue that any religion that would cut you off from friends or family for no other reason than the fact that they are 'not a member' is harmful is not one at all.

Yeah if you just stop by one of their churches (there's one near my place), it's basically a ground-level bookstore featuring nothing but L. Ron stuff, and a set of looping promotional videos that show happy people on beaches and don't say anything about aliens living in your face or whatever.

I tried to get up the secret elevator but Scientologists hire the very sternest of guards.

Tax-free status.

If they didn't have that, we wouldn't care as much.

That goes for all religions.