MSNBC's Ed Schultz calls parents who allow there kids and 18+ to play GTA V lousy

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Disclaimer: My first post ever on escapist. So sorry if I broke any rules.

In light of the tragic shootings at the Naval shipyard in D.C., the news media, predictable as ever, has pointed the finger at violent video games.

One such fellow is MSNBC's own Ed Schultz, who just insulted millions of people globally by saying parents who buy there kids GTA V or people 18 plus are "lousy" and apart of the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOrdJvMQ_6A

Now let me be clear, I don't think parents should be buying M rated games like GTA V for there kids. So in a sense, I agree with Ed Schultz on that kids shouldn't be playing them in the first place, but he also insulted older gamers. Also the shooter in question is 34 years, hardly a child, so whats this have to do with kids I do not understand, but hey this is the news media talking.

But hey thank Big Eddie! You're giving GTA V much free air time, thanks alot.

If you buy a game for a kid, especially a small one, yes you are an awful parent. There is literally no censorship in GTA V, even the strippers don't have any censorship anymore. Its full nudity.

Who the hell buys their 10 year old a nudie mag? A 60$ nudie mag at that?

GTA isn't the "friendly" franchise it was in the past. Its effectively trying to be a gritty crime movie at this point. For 18+ adults. Even the comedy went from wiener and ball jokes to satire on politics.

Subtleties that 10 year olds would fail to grasp.

However, 18+ people playing itisn't an issue. The game causing shootings is utter bunk. The only true thing in that statement is that GTA V is not for kids.

Ed Schultz is an ass. I never did like him or his show. MSNBC really oughta give him the boot, and give Ezra Klein a show. Ezra Klein is awesome.

Even given how much an ass Schultz is, I had to go to the source, just to make sure the clip hadn't been strategically edited. It just seemed too over the top, even for Ed Schultz. Nope. There it was right there on the Ed Show's own website. He said it just like that. What an ass.

BTW folks, write your congresscritters. It's not that hard. Just politely let them know that "violent video games cause violence" is bullshit.

Well, I'd agree that you should buy stuff rated 18+ for young kids.

The latest shooting...yeah, not seeing a connection.

Berny Marcus:
Disclaimer: My first post ever on escapist. So sorry if I broke any rules

Decent first post!

But yeah, I basically agree. Giving young kids adult themed games isn't generally a good idea (though I don't always agree with the rationale behind PEGI ratings), but to try and link to this latest shooting is reprehensible.
By all accounts this latest shooter had serious mental problems.

There's no conclusive evidence that video games cause violent tendencies or mental illness, but even if there was a casual link then that wouldn't be adequate cause to ban them entirely (unless you're also going to ban, say, tobacco and alcohol).
I don't actually like the GTA franchise, but adults have the right to (providing it's legal) watch, read, listen to, or play whatever they damn please.

Hey, if you think your kid can handle it then by all means do it. I mean we say that it comes down to parents when it comes to these things. I played Mortal Kombat here and there when I was a kid and I didn't try to rip spines out on the playground.

Video Games are only the most recent scapegoat in a long and proud lineage of scapegoats.

Previous scapegoats include Rock and Roll, Women Voting, Homosexuality, Television, Marijuana, Communism, Porn, any religion that isn't Catholic or Protestant, Women Expressing Their Opinion, Immigrants, Theatre, Art, Books, Women, and Socrates.

Sooner or later they'll find something else to blame for society's woes (remember, more and more young people are growing up playing video games which means in only a decade or two most politicians will be on our side)

As for the thing about parents...yeah, if you buy your kid an 18+ game than you're kinda lousy. Games have ratings for a reason.

Futhermore, if little Timmy is REALLY jonesing for a specific game, you can pull up a Let's Play from you tube and get an idea of what the game entails to better make an informed decision. Not all M games are created equally (compare, say, Mass Effect to GTA)

Ultratwinkie:
If you buy a game for a kid, especially a small one, yes you are an awful parent. There is literally no censorship in GTA V, even the strippers don't have any censorship anymore. Its full nudity.

Who the hell buys their 10 year old a nudie mag? A 60$ nudie mag at that?

Nothing a 10-year old can't find online by simply typing "BOOBS" in google. Honestly, I would be surprised if a 10-year old HADN'T done it.

This, like everything else, is a case by case situation. If the patrents believe their child can handle it, and if they believe that they are adequate enough parents to instill humane virtues and values in a child, then by all means, go for it. It is unlikely that GTA V will turn a child into a monster more than internet and television will.
My dad let me play Doom when I was nine years old, and by ten I had access to the internet (and thus BOOBS), and I turned out just fine, simply because my mom and dad actually took their parenting seriously.
It's when parents let video-games and TV do their job for them that I start to worry.

Adamantium93:
Previous scapegoats include Rock and Roll, Women Voting, Homosexuality, Television, Marijuana, Communism, Porn, any religion that isn't Catholic or Protestant, Women Expressing Their Opinion, Immigrants, Theatre, Art, Books, Women, and Socrates.

Actually, both Catholicism and Protestantism have been blamed for causing people to act immorally (generally by followers of the other one). ;)

You can also add jazz music and English translations of the Bible to your list.

Ultratwinkie:

Who the hell buys their 10 year old a nudie mag? A 60$ nudie mag at that?

The only true thing in that statement is that GTA V is not for kids.

I think this pretty neatly sums up a lot of things.

The shooter was 18+ so kids don't even come into the matter (except potentially the shooter's childhood) and GTA V is no more suitable for children than The Godfather or Goodfellas or The Wire any other crime series you care to name.

NOR SHOULD IT BE BECAUSE VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT CHILDREN'S TOYS AND ARE NOT REQUIRED TO APPEAL TO CHILDREN ANY MORE THAN FILMS, TELEVISION SHOWS, BOOKS, MOVIES OR MUSIC.

If you condemn a video game for not appealing to children you may as well condemn all media, anecdotes or events that are similarly unsuitable for children.*

*Unless the game is specifically marketed to kids.

I can totally agree that young kids shouldn't experience this game, going only on what I've read and heard about it so far ( have not played it, waiting for a possible PC release!). I also wouldn't be ok letting my kid watch The Wire, these shows/movies/games are not for kids!

Ultratwinkie:
There is literally no censorship in GTA V, even the strippers don't have any censorship anymore. Its full nudity.

Who the hell buys their 10 year old a nudie mag? A 60$ nudie mag at that?

I'm not that worried about nudity though =p. Perhaps in the context of this game, I don't know how it plays out, but I don't see my self worrying if I discover my dauther or son has been looking at pictures of naked men/women. I don't see myself buying a "nudie mag" for my kid, but I imagine those would be much safer places to look at nude people than the internet and a random google search can be!

Berny Marcus:
Disclaimer: My first post ever on escapist. So sorry if I broke any rules.

You broke ALL The rules.

You are a terrible person. I drew you a picture to commemorate your terriblenessniness!

image

I know it's hard to see, but strain your eyes, and you'll see he put Judas down so he could gnaw on YOU! You're awful! You're everything McCarthy fought against in the 50's!!

OT: I know he meant to say, "Xbox 360 game," but he left out game, so here I am thinking, "Damn, they've gotten so much more portable."

Plus, the whole, if you allow your now adult child to own or watch this, you're a terrible parent. God forbid if parents were actually judged for what people did after they were out of their sphere of control. There'd be no such thing as a good parent.

It's disgusting really. The likes of Fox, MSNBC, CNN and stations such as those are now so low in how they do news/handle situations that they can be objectively considered worse than tabloids. Outright lying, a lack of quality control and fact checking, no regard to how they even bother with their job, the tabloids do a better job.

What's worse, people love this. The live stupidity as the bobbleheads try to look 'professional' saying random bullshit, the outright lying saying that it's gaming or guns or "Government allowed", the inability to grasp that they look like wanking monkeys on air talking to a still image of Nosferatu (Watched last night's Daily Show with Jon Stewart). It's all there to gain ratings and it's working.

Adamantium93:

Previous scapegoats include Rock and Roll, Women Voting, Homosexuality, Television, Marijuana, Communism, Porn, any religion that isn't Catholic or Protestant, Women Expressing Their Opinion, Immigrants, Theatre, Art, Books, Women, and Socrates.

Extending that list to:

Unmarried sex, contraception, touching a member of the opposite sex below the neck, losers that drive too slow, maniacs that drive too fast, asking for a receipt, singing in the shower, masturbation, thinking about masturbation, David Hasselhoff, chunky peanut butter, video game piracy, Somalia, rechargeable batteries, text messages, CAPS LOCK, heavy breathing, lustful eye contact, and the oxford comma.

May have just wanted to make a list.
Yours looked like fun.

Ratings are subjective to the ethics and standards of the ESRB and may not reflect on what everyone in the US thinks is bad. Personally, I am informed enough to know what my theoretical kids will and will not be allowed to play without the aid of the rating system. I understand not every parent has that luxury, so it's fine they use it, but if I think my kid of X age can handle a game the ESRB says is too mature for them then I will let them play it. I am far more concerned with online interaction than I am with anything he/she will find in any AAA game. As for GTA games specifically, I probably would keep a game like GTA V out of their hands until they were at least 15 or so. Or at least until I know they're mature enough to handle it.

erttheking:
Hey, if you think your kid can handle it then by all means do it. I mean we say that it comes down to parents when it comes to these things. I played Mortal Kombat here and there when I was a kid and I didn't try to rip spines out on the playground.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. A kid has no business "handling it" at all. No child has any business playing a game like this.

Also, by now, we should fully expect anytime a tragedy like this occurs to have the media start pointing fingers at guns, and games.

Playful Pony:
I can totally agree that young kids shouldn't experience this game, going only on what I've read and heard about it so far ( have not played it, waiting for a possible PC release!). I also wouldn't be ok letting my kid watch The Wire, these shows/movies/games are not for kids!

Ultratwinkie:
There is literally no censorship in GTA V, even the strippers don't have any censorship anymore. Its full nudity.

Who the hell buys their 10 year old a nudie mag? A 60$ nudie mag at that?

I'm not that worried about nudity though =p. Perhaps in the context of this game, I don't know how it plays out, but I don't see my self worrying if I discover my dauther or son has been looking at pictures of naked men/women. I don't see myself buying a "nudie mag" for my kid, but I imagine those would be much safer places to look at nude people than the internet and a random google search can be!

I believe there is a very fine line that parents have to walk when it comes to things like this. Children have no business playing or experiences adult things such as GTA V and the like, and its our jobs as parents to prevent that from happening. But adversely, I am of the belief that you cannot convey a message to your kids that nudity is evil and vile, and its very tricky. Simply put, they shouldnt be exposed to it at a young age. As they mature, they WILL come in contact with it sooner or later, and you are living under a rock if you dont think that will happen. Its our jobs to prepare them as they grow up to handle things of that nature in a mature way, and at the same time dont give them a complex about their bodies or make them feel like the feelings they will experience are wrong or unnatural. But the parents need to be their proper teachers and guides, not something like GTA V.

Media causally responsible for a lot of what's wrong in politics including ruining lives for no reason than it looks good on teasers, advocating thought censoring, and the idea that the loudest person is right, et al is calling something else evil. It must be a day that ends in 'y'. But hey, their constitutionally protected lies just HAVE to be more valid than something that's... NEWER THAN THEM *Gasp*

Riff Moonraker:
I believe there is a very fine line that parents have to walk when it comes to things like this. Children have no business playing or experiences adult things such as GTA V and the like, and its our jobs as parents to prevent that from happening. But adversely, I am of the belief that you cannot convey a message to your kids that nudity is evil and vile, and its very tricky. Simply put, they shouldnt be exposed to it at a young age. As they mature, they WILL come in contact with it sooner or later, and you are living under a rock if you dont think that will happen. Its our jobs to prepare them as they grow up to handle things of that nature in a mature way, and at the same time dont give them a complex about their bodies or make them feel like the feelings they will experience are wrong or unnatural. But the parents need to be their proper teachers and guides, not something like GTA V.

I think the easiest way to explain it would be, "you aren't ready to see that yet." It's not saying that they can never handle it, or even shouldn't handle it at some point in the future, just that at their current age they shouldn't see it. Telling them something is evil or dirty or that they should never see it will only make it even more interesting to them. Which is a terrible thing to do, considering the very fact that it's barred off in the first place is enough of an excuse to get them excited.

Lilani:
I think the easiest way to explain it would be, "you aren't ready to see that yet." It's not saying that they can never handle it, or even shouldn't handle it at some point in the future, just that at their current age they shouldn't see it. Telling them something is evil or dirty or that they should never see it will only make it even more interesting to them. Which is a terrible thing to do, considering the very fact that it's barred off in the first place is enough of an excuse to get them excited.

Well, yes, but I'm not sure "later" isn't going to have the same effect.

thaluikhain:

The latest shooting...yeah, not seeing a connection.

Amazon released GTAV a few days early. Then Aaron Alexis kills 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard.

Coincidence? Fox News won't believe so.

thaluikhain:
Well, yes, but I'm not sure "later" isn't going to have the same effect.

The same effect as what? Either way you're denying them something they want, and either way that very denial is going to make them more interested. The only thing you can really prevent is making sure you don't send the kid the message that images of sex and violence are inherently evil.

It reminds me of something I read recently about teaching kids about abstinence. Yes abstinence-only sex education is bullshit, but there is an even worse way to go about it that transcends simply denying children a working knowledge on how sex works. A common practice to illustrate the effects of having sex with multiple practice is to start with a clean and clear glass of water, and then go around the room and have every child spit in the glass. Or, have certain children eat something and then put some backwash into the glass after they drink. And yet another was to have some children chew gum, and then gather the gum and ask others if they wanted to chew the prechewed gum. The illustration is used to explain to children that having sex with multiple partners makes you dirty and undesirable--used by another, and thus unworthy to be used by anyone else.

However, there's something else going on there, too. You're basically telling kids that the very act of sex itself is one of dirtiness and shamefulness. Trying to couple that with the lesson that somehow getting married makes all of this "okay" is rather contradictory, and not helpful for having them develop a healthy perspective on sex. It's one thing to explain to your child they shouldn't have sex until a certain age, but it's another thing entirely to say that sex is like getting chewed up and spat out again, and that until you find the right person to chew you up and spit you out you shouldn't do it or else you'll be useless.

That's more or less what I was getting at, there. It's one thing to tell kids they simply aren't ready for something, it's another thing entirely to say that thing is evil on the whole and tell the kid how they should think of it before they even understand what it really is.

Lilani:
That's more or less what I was getting at, there. It's one thing to tell kids they simply aren't ready for something, it's another thing entirely to say that thing is evil on the whole and tell the kid how they should think of it before they even understand what it really is.

Ah, right, I see what you mean, I'd definitely agree with that.

He's incorrect; there are no Kids over 18 years old. There are men and women 18 years old and older.

I hate GTA. I hate everything about it. Even more, I hate when adults are not allowed to buy what they want or do what they want, because some dick who has no information says "you're bad!"

evilneko:
Ezra Klein is awesome.

And reminds me of Scarecrow from Batman Begins. Ergo, he needs his own show a supply of fear gas, and a mask.

Aaaaanyway, I dislike Ed Schultz. He's a douche. And saying that parents suck if their 18+ kid is "watching" GTAV is just ridiculous. But really, from a more reasonable person, I wouldn't have trouble with a complaint that kids are playing these games.

silver wolf009:

Berny Marcus:
Disclaimer: My first post ever on escapist. So sorry if I broke any rules.

You broke ALL The rules.

You are a terrible person. I drew you a picture to commemorate your terriblenessniness!

image

I know it's hard to see, but strain your eyes, and you'll see he put Judas down so he could gnaw on YOU! You're awful! You're everything McCarthy fought against in the 50's!!

OT: I know he meant to say, "Xbox 360 game," but he left out game, so here I am thinking, "Damn, they've gotten so much more portable."

Plus, the whole, if you allow your now adult child to own or watch this, you're a terrible parent. God forbid if parents were actually judged for what people did after they were out of their sphere of control. There'd be no such thing as a good parent.

Holy fuck! I'm going to hell! Spare me god and mods of escapists! Don't take me Grim reaper spider!

Joking aside, wow, I didn't know Xbox 360s were now a portable game, Microsoft hid it under our noses the whole time! Geniuses!

evilneko:
Ed Schultz is an ass. I never did like him or his show. MSNBC really oughta give him the boot, and give Ezra Klein a show. Ezra Klein is awesome.

Even given how much an ass Schultz is, I had to go to the source, just to make sure the clip hadn't been strategically edited. It just seemed too over the top, even for Ed Schultz. Nope. There it was right there on the Ed Show's own website. He said it just like that. What an ass.

BTW folks, write your congresscritters. It's not that hard. Just politely let them know that "violent video games cause violence" is bullshit.

Ed Schultz wasn't the only one attacking video games, but he was more direct. Morning Joke, Al Sharptan, Chris Hayes, and Maddow all went after them. What a joke of a news network, same as Fox and CNN

"If you're a parent and you allow your son or daughter to watch this - even if they're beyond 18-years-old, you're a lousy parent in my opinion." -Ed Schultz

I called my mom to see what she thought. I think you'll get a kick out of her response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCgZpIomGok

Andrew Eisen

Where to start.
You say "the news media has predictably pointed the finger at video games"
First of all "predictably" is a bit of an overstatement when you consider how old that cliche is by now. Nobody in the mainstream is making the case that video games make you violent yet people argue against it as if that argument has already been made.
Second, I have yet to see one single news program discussing the "tragedy" so much as mention video games or movies so this really comes off as one of those situations where YOU CHOSE to look up news relating to video games and shootings, meaning you set off from the beginning to find something you disagree with, making your outrage over the "issue" even more petty than it would be on it's own.

I am just so sick of kids whining about how the horrible media is talking bad about their precious video games. Hey some guy that happens to be on tv doesn't have the same opinion as you, get over it.

Funny that most escapist forum users are more than happy to defend Mr.Tito's review using the argument that it's his opinion and you should never be mad about an opinion, yet here we are and that same community seems to be in agreement that we should attack this guy because he thinks that letting children play GTA 5 makes you a lousy parent.

I wish people could get this angry about something that actually matters. Our government kills people using unmanned drones and without going through the legal process to declare war? Who cares, those are scary foreigners and they are just being killed.
Someone in the news said my video games and energy drinks are not great for me? OUTRAGE!

Andrew_Eisen:
"If you're a parent and you allow your son or daughter to watch this - even if they're beyond 18-years-old, you're a lousy parent in my opinion." -Ed Schultz

I called my mom to see what she thought. I think you'll get a kick out of her response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCgZpIomGok

Andrew Eisen

Ah yeah I watched your video when I was looking for the clip I posted, classy response to Ed's rants. You and your mom rock!

MCerberus:
Media causally responsible for a lot of what's wrong in politics including ruining lives for no reason than it looks good on teasers, advocating thought censoring, and the idea that the loudest person is right, et al is calling something else evil. It must be a day that ends in 'y'. But hey, their constitutionally protected lies just HAVE to be more valid than something that's... NEWER THAN THEM *Gasp*

Nobody's constitutional rights are being violated when some guy on the news says video games suck. Quit being so dramatic, you are acting like they are hypocrites because they protect their right to free speech. Guess what, criticism of a person's work or speech does not infringe on that person's right to free speech.

I am so sick of people using the "free speech" argument on ignorant little issues like this, especially when they talk about how vital that right is while at the same time starting to argue that we need to somehow limit what people are allowed to say in public regarding our precious video games.

If you can't enjoy GTA after seeing a guy on the news say it's bad, you were probably too immature or mentally unstable to handle it right anyways.

Ed Schultz is an idiot and a blow hard but he has a sliver of a point in all of that. If you are a parent and you are letting your minor child play GTA V you are a lousy parent. I love GTA V. Love it. Probably my favorite game in years so far. However, it has no business being played or viewed by children. Any parent who would willingly let their children play it is bad and should feel bad.

Carpenter:
First of all "predictably" is a bit of an overstatement when you consider how old that cliche is by now. Nobody in the mainstream is making the case that video games make you violent yet people argue against it as if that argument has already been made.

Well, yes and no. On the one hand, that is often implied rather heavily, if rarely actually stated.

OTOH, it is a very tiresome strawman used during attempts at a more serious discussion about the effects of games.

Carpenter:
I wish people could get this angry about something that actually matters.

Yeah, there's very much an element of that. Similarly, gets tiresome when people say that Australia has a terrible society/government because of the problems with video games classifications.

Whatever, there's a reason I don't watch MSNBC.

That said, I love how he's waving the game in front of the screen yelling "you see this? Right here? Don't but this. Can you see it properly? It's called Grand Theft Auto FIVE. The new one, not four. Five. Don't buy it at you local Gamestop or Target. Grand Theft Auto."

Rock Star execs are crying their way to the bank, I'm sure.

I actually agree with him. Its rated 17 and 18+ for a reason. We all know a ton of parents use video games as babysitters.

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