How far can Marvel and Disney go?

Ok so unless you have been living under a rock for the past five years or so you know about The Avengers and the Marvel Cinematic universe. Wether you like it or not its become one of those land mark movie projects that has changed everything. Sony is seeming to set the stage for a Sinister 6 movie since they only have one hero but thank God for them he has like the 1st or 2nd most notable rogues gallery ever next to Batman and probably The Flash. Fox is doing a soft reboot of sorts with X-men Days of Future past and Singer is already teasing Apocalypse. DC is trying to make a cinematic universe and I even heard rumors of an Avengers style mash up movie of the Universal monsters. That actually sounds kind of awesome. Anyway back on track.

So it has been recently announced that Michael Douglas will be playing Hank Pym in the upcoming Ant-Man movie. The weird thing. Paul Rudd was cast months earlier as Ant-Man now revealed to be Scott Lang. For those who don't know Hank Pym is the scientist that creates the Ant-Man tech and the villain Ultron who will be debuting in Avengers 2 earlier the same year Ant-Man will debut. Hank Pym is also the most widely known version of the character at least by my estimates. So will Hank Pym actually be referred to as Ant-Man? Will he have been Ant-Man at some point in his life before? If so then Marvel is appears to be doing the whole legacy hero thing. So if they go that route how far do you think Marvel can go before it starts losing people? I mean Guardians is already shaping up to be weird enough but I don't think general audiences have been exposed to the idea of multiple people being the same hero i.e. Wally West and Barry Allen both being the Flash or Ted Kord and Jaime Reyes both being Blue Beetle.

Yeah honestly i think stuff like the guardians and "these people have all been the same hero" is probably a step beyond. I mean they took 5 movies just to set up the avengers but are just going to dump the guardians in one go? not going to go well.

Hoplon:
Yeah honestly i think stuff like the guardians and "these people have all been the same hero" is probably a step beyond. I mean they took 5 movies just to set up the avengers but are just going to dump the guardians in one go? not going to go well.

I wouldn't say the Guardians dump is one go. I mean if they saw the end of Thor 2 they should at least know its going to be strange. Still I'm convinced if they can get that to make money they can get anything to make money. Hell I had never heard of them before they announced plans to make a movie. Not the movie itself but just plans. So I got curious. I thought they were some successful comic series that didn't have tangible ties to the greater Marvel universe at first. Then I did some digging and was shocked at what I found. I guess the key is just good marketing. Which for me means. Don't get the marketing department that worked on Frozen's marketing campaign.

I think they'll go as far as they can, with mostly one character oriented movies having a few others casually introduced. One thing to remember is that the plan that Marvel Studios is using is one that allows it to be flexible and is meant to keep things profitable while still holding to their "2 movies per year" mandate. As long as they can keep the movie stories self contained enough that you don't need to have watched the others before going in, with just enough connection to the MCU for fans to see it as part of a whole, then they should remain fine. This is why we've seen the movies each be in their own genre, from action to fugitive to fantasy to war to political thriller.

Given their current plan to have the MCU go on until 2021, we will have to wait and see how things go, however in this day and age there's probably enough of a market for things like Guardians to be profitable, at least on the international market (which is now more important then the domestic market for many types of movies).

I think they'll go as far as they can, with mostly one character oriented movies having a few others casually introduced. One thing to remember is that the plan that Marvel Studios is using is one that allows it to be flexible and is meant to keep things profitable while still holding to their "2 movies per year" mandate. As long as they can keep the movie stories self contained enough that you don't need to have watched the others before going in, with just enough connection to the MCU for fans to see it as part of a whole, then they should remain fine. This is why we've seen the movies each be in their own genre, from action to fugitive to fantasy to war to political thriller.

Given their current plan to have the MCU go on until 2021, we will have to wait and see how things go, however in this day and age there's probably enough of a market for things like Guardians to be profitable, at least on the international market (which is now more important then the domestic market for many types of movies).

Hopefully far enough to make a descent animated series

What do you mean how far can they go? Can they pull off a complete cinematic universe that is mainstream successful?

It's still early but I think they can. They just have to make an effort to establish that some Superhero names are just a title that gets passed on. The MCU will really get tested later on but right now I think they're doing a good job of keeping stories and plots self contained with threads of an overarching universe and a few recurring cross characters in each film.

I'm speaking as a non-comics fan.

The only things I know about Guardians of the Galaxy (and I'd like to keep it this way so please don't start explaining who everyone is to me, thanks!) is that Vin Disel plays a tree type thing, it's in space and there is a Raccoon with an assault rifle. A freaking Raccoon with an assault rifle. That alone makes me want to see this movie.

Hoplon:
Yeah honestly i think stuff like the guardians and "these people have all been the same hero" is probably a step beyond. I mean they took 5 movies just to set up the avengers but are just going to dump the guardians in one go? not going to go well.

If they can handle three Bruce Waynes or three Bruce Banners, I think they can handle two identities for Ant-Man.

If anything's going to sink Ant-Man, it's Ant-Man being a fairly mocked character outside of comic fans. When people even know who he is.

Avengers didn't need build-up. that they did it is gravy, but the fact that it took five movies doesn't cast a pall on GotG. The movie itself might, though.

As far as people will watch. There are probably entire universes of obscure characters that no-one has done anything with that they own. Unless they sold them all off as I remember happening to a large number. But yeah, no shortage of possible content.

Well I personally agree with MovieBob's take on this. Are Marvel studios big enough to go small? Will we ever get to see She-Hulk? or Thundra? Will Hercules and Ares ever pop up alongside the already established Norse heroes? What of Hit-Monkey?

I think Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix series are great steps towards expanding this universe without necessarily going to huge blockbuster special effects and venues (I wish Agents of SHIELD was...well...a LOT better, but still, the idea was pretty solid)

The entire point of The Avengers is that it's a constantly changing team with a huge variety of members swapping in and out, so even if they do eventually move on from Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America, they've still got a lot to work with.

I'm personally super excited for Ant-Man, and I thought it was a great idea to have Hank Pym as a 60's legacy hero and Scott Lang as the more modern one to actually team up with the gang (though why the MCU is so hell bent on having Hank Pym NOT invent Ultron is a bit baffling to me, especially since setting him up in the past already seems like a great way to have that work...)

But when those guys are done, I am curious if we're going to be seeing characters like Black Panther or Dr. Strange. I know aside from Daredevil that Marvel also got Ghost Rider and Blade back. Maybe they could do something with them.

I think as long as Marvel Studios keeps their eyes on the prize and tries to keep their universe in working order they can keep ahead of the game, and become something huge that spans generations.

Strain42:
Well I personally agree with MovieBob's take on this. Are Marvel studios big enough to go small? Will we ever get to see She-Hulk? or Thundra? Will Hercules and Ares ever pop up alongside the already established Norse heroes? What of Hit-Monkey?

I think Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix series are great steps towards expanding this universe without necessarily going to huge blockbuster special effects and venues (I wish Agents of SHIELD was...well...a LOT better, but still, the idea was pretty solid)

The entire point of The Avengers is that it's a constantly changing team with a huge variety of members swapping in and out, so even if they do eventually move on from Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America, they've still got a lot to work with.

I'm personally super excited for Ant-Man, and I thought it was a great idea to have Hank Pym as a 60's legacy hero and Scott Lang as the more modern one to actually team up with the gang (though why the MCU is so hell bent on having Hank Pym NOT invent Ultron is a bit baffling to me, especially since setting him up in the past already seems like a great way to have that work...)

But when those guys are done, I am curious if we're going to be seeing characters like Black Panther or Dr. Strange. I know aside from Daredevil that Marvel also got Ghost Rider and Blade back. Maybe they could do something with them.

I think as long as Marvel Studios keeps their eyes on the prize and tries to keep their universe in working order they can keep ahead of the game, and become something huge that spans generations.

Last I heard there was some kind of Blade script in the works. Supposedly anyway. To which I saw you cast Denzel Washington in that role because you already cast the other huge black bad ass in this day and age as Heimdal. If that sounds even remotely racist I really don't mean for it to be. Still since it seems like they want Iron Man to be the source of modern superheroes in this world I wouldn't put it past them to have Hank Pym be Ant-Man years ago working with S.H.I.E.L.D. and thus over time his exploits were covered up because government. ;) S.H.I.E.L.D. is actually getting there. Its going a direction that seems to be the world building thing it promised. i.e. if Coulson shows up in the movies and only The Avengers question it but no one else does then watch the series to find out. I like that angle personally. Give more detail to a major plot point that in a theatrical movie not about him would just get brushed over.

PapaGreg096:
Hopefully far enough to make a descent animated series

Amen. While I hear alright things about those Avengers series Marvel I must say still can't out do DC and WB in the animated department. They haven't had their equivalent of the DCAU and lets be honest in the straight to DVD releases DC has been kicking their sorry butts for years. Its actually a bit embarrassing when you consider the fact that the people funding Marvel is one of the greatest animation empires on Earth.

Camaranth:
What do you mean how far can they go? Can they pull off a complete cinematic universe that is mainstream successful?

It's still early but I think they can. They just have to make an effort to establish that some Superhero names are just a title that gets passed on. The MCU will really get tested later on but right now I think they're doing a good job of keeping stories and plots self contained with threads of an overarching universe and a few recurring cross characters in each film.

I'm speaking as a non-comics fan.

The only things I know about Guardians of the Galaxy (and I'd like to keep it this way so please don't start explaining who everyone is to me, thanks!) is that Vin Disel plays a tree type thing, it's in space and there is a Raccoon with an assault rifle. A freaking Raccoon with an assault rifle. That alone makes me want to see this movie.

Ok I won't explain anymore of the Guardians. I got too curious about them so I know some bare bones stuff. The Raccoon is going to be voice by Bradley Cooper if you like him. Its obvious though that for the sequel movies at least you have to see either the Avengers or the previous stand alone films to understand what's on in movies like Iron Man 3 or Thor: The Dark World. Luckily normal people don't mind binge watching movie where as to catch up on current events in comics only the most die hard will binge read comics. So there is that advantage.

In answer to your question I mean how far can they go into comic book weirdness territory before it starts backfiring. Legacy heroes, cosmic beings, parallel Earths with a different version of the heroes. I mean if they go the direction I think they are in Avengers 3 shit is going to get weirder than it already is believe you me.

Zontar:
I think they'll go as far as they can, with mostly one character oriented movies having a few others casually introduced. One thing to remember is that the plan that Marvel Studios is using is one that allows it to be flexible and is meant to keep things profitable while still holding to their "2 movies per year" mandate. As long as they can keep the movie stories self contained enough that you don't need to have watched the others before going in, with just enough connection to the MCU for fans to see it as part of a whole, then they should remain fine. This is why we've seen the movies each be in their own genre, from action to fugitive to fantasy to war to political thriller.

Given their current plan to have the MCU go on until 2021, we will have to wait and see how things go, however in this day and age there's probably enough of a market for things like Guardians to be profitable, at least on the international market (which is now more important then the domestic market for many types of movies).

Where did you read that it was going to 2021? Is that when Avengers 3 is coming out? I think with movies like Tin Tin and Pacific Rim breaking out over seas the international barrier is finally being broken down. The movie that will probably continue that trend is the upcoming Godzilla movie and lord I hope it does.

Captain America right now is the only on that is actually changing genre it seems and that appears to actually be out of necessity and not necessarily because they want to. A 40s pulp adventure wouldn't work as well in a modern setting but a Jason Bourne/James Bond style spy thriller with Marvel heroes as the main players. That sounds awesome as hell.

KazeAizen:

Zontar:
I think they'll go as far as they can, with mostly one character oriented movies having a few others casually introduced. One thing to remember is that the plan that Marvel Studios is using is one that allows it to be flexible and is meant to keep things profitable while still holding to their "2 movies per year" mandate. As long as they can keep the movie stories self contained enough that you don't need to have watched the others before going in, with just enough connection to the MCU for fans to see it as part of a whole, then they should remain fine. This is why we've seen the movies each be in their own genre, from action to fugitive to fantasy to war to political thriller.

Given their current plan to have the MCU go on until 2021, we will have to wait and see how things go, however in this day and age there's probably enough of a market for things like Guardians to be profitable, at least on the international market (which is now more important then the domestic market for many types of movies).

Where did you read that it was going to 2021? Is that when Avengers 3 is coming out? I think with movies like Tin Tin and Pacific Rim breaking out over seas the international barrier is finally being broken down. The movie that will probably continue that trend is the upcoming Godzilla movie and lord I hope it does.

Captain America right now is the only on that is actually changing genre it seems and that appears to actually be out of necessity and not necessarily because they want to. A 40s pulp adventure wouldn't work as well in a modern setting but a Jason Bourne/James Bond style spy thriller with Marvel heroes as the main players. That sounds awesome as hell.

The 2021 date comes from an interview with Kevin Feige, and is (or maybe was) the original intended date for the MUC to come to its logical conclusion, and not the date for Avengers 3 (which would probably be around 2017-2018ish). Given that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Netflix series have been created though, its clear that the schedule for things have been flexible for changing things (as has the talk of a possible Hulk movie after his popularity rose with The Avengers).

As for the genre changing, Winter Soldier is the first 70s style political thriller mixed with modern Bourne/Bond spying in the MCU, however with the exception of the two first Iron Man movies, each movie in Phase One and Phase Two have been fairly different from the others in the same phase. What I mean is this:

Phase One:

-Iron Man: action comedy.
-Incredible Hulk: fugitive action.
-Iron Man 2: action comedy (with some more drama then before)
-Thor: Modern Fantasy
-Captain America: War/period piece
-The Avengers: Science Fantasy Action

Phase Two:

-Iron Man 3: 90s style action thriller
-Thor 2: Science Fantasy
-Captain America 2: 70s political/spy thriller
-Guardians of the Galaxy: Science Fiction
-Avengers 2: Science Fantasy (probably)

Phase Three:

-Ant Man: comedy with action (we don't know for sure, but given who is writing and directing, it's probably what's going to happen)

KazeAizen:

PapaGreg096:
Hopefully far enough to make a descent animated series

Amen. While I hear alright things about those Avengers series Marvel I must say still can't out do DC and WB in the animated department. They haven't had their equivalent of the DCAU and lets be honest in the straight to DVD releases DC has been kicking their sorry butts for years. Its actually a bit embarrassing when you consider the fact that the people funding Marvel is one of the greatest animation empires on Earth.

Well they did have Avengers EMH and Spectacular Spiderman(Thier answer to B:Tas

PapaGreg096:

KazeAizen:

PapaGreg096:
Hopefully far enough to make a descent animated series

Amen. While I hear alright things about those Avengers series Marvel I must say still can't out do DC and WB in the animated department. They haven't had their equivalent of the DCAU and lets be honest in the straight to DVD releases DC has been kicking their sorry butts for years. Its actually a bit embarrassing when you consider the fact that the people funding Marvel is one of the greatest animation empires on Earth.

Well they did have Avengers EMH and Spectacular Spiderman(Thier answer to B:Tas

I know but I'm not sure if its because I'm too old or something but I didn't really hear people talking about Spectacular Spider Man all that much and while I'm sure Avengers EMH is good it never seemed to garner the same attention Justice League did back in its day.

Zontar:

The 2021 date comes from an interview with Kevin Feige, and is (or maybe was) the original intended date for the MUC to come to its logical conclusion, and not the date for Avengers 3 (which would probably be around 2017-2018ish). Given that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Netflix series have been created though, its clear that the schedule for things have been flexible for changing things (as has the talk of a possible Hulk movie after his popularity rose with The Avengers).

As for the genre changing, Winter Soldier is the first 70s style political thriller mixed with modern Bourne/Bond spying in the MCU, however with the exception of the two first Iron Man movies, each movie in Phase One and Phase Two have been fairly different from the others in the same phase. What I mean is this:

Phase One:

-Iron Man: action comedy.
-Incredible Hulk: fugitive action.
-Iron Man 2: action comedy (with some more drama then before)
-Thor: Modern Fantasy
-Captain America: War/period piece
-The Avengers: Science Fantasy Action

Phase Two:

-Iron Man 3: 90s style action thriller
-Thor 2: Science Fantasy
-Captain America 2: 70s political/spy thriller
-Guardians of the Galaxy: Science Fiction
-Avengers 2: Science Fantasy (probably)

Phase Three:

-Ant Man: comedy with action (we don't know for sure, but given who is writing and directing, it's probably what's going to happen)

Eh I guess I'm not as much of a movie buff as I thought I was. I was painting in broader strokes. With the Iron Man movies being comedy sci fi, Hulk being a sort of monster movie, Thor being fantasy science or otherwise. Cap being the only one in his solo series to pull a complete 180 on genres. From Indiana Jones style adventure to Jason Bourne.

If that 2021 isn't Avengers 3 but something after I am truly curious now as most people are probably thinking that Avengers 3 is going to be the end game to all this. Still when they cross that line I wonder what their next plan is. Cinema and especially the superhero genre is going to be forever changed by this. What does one do when they've unfolded an entire interconnected comic book universe on screen across multiple media?

I'm still waiting for a good superheroine movie. One that doesn't build on a stock/secondary character from other movies, please. ONE. Just ONE.

Johnny Novgorod:
I'm still waiting for a good superheroine movie. One that doesn't build on a stock/secondary character from other movies, please. ONE. Just ONE.

I'm utterly confused by this statement.

The Flash's rogues' gallery is notable for exactly one thing: being freaking ridiculous. Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Heatwave,... I dont think people know them very well at all.

KazeAizen:

Johnny Novgorod:
I'm still waiting for a good superheroine movie. One that doesn't build on a stock/secondary character from other movies, please. ONE. Just ONE.

I'm utterly confused by this statement.

I want movies about superheroines.

Johnny Novgorod:

KazeAizen:

Johnny Novgorod:
I'm still waiting for a good superheroine movie. One that doesn't build on a stock/secondary character from other movies, please. ONE. Just ONE.

I'm utterly confused by this statement.

I want movies about superheroines.

lol. I'm a dunce. I misread that. I'm no longer confused now. :) Yeah I'm with you though. Hopefully they do a Ms. Marvel movie in the middle of all this. She's the really big name that sticks out to me in the Marvel universe. More or less their Wonder Woman.

KazeAizen:

Johnny Novgorod:

KazeAizen:

I'm utterly confused by this statement.

I want movies about superheroines.

lol. I'm a dunce. I misread that. I'm no longer confused now. :) Yeah I'm with you though. Hopefully they do a Ms. Marvel movie in the middle of all this. She's the really big name that sticks out to me in the Marvel universe. More or less their Wonder Woman.

Or cut out the faffing and just make her Captain Marvel.

WolfThomas:

KazeAizen:

Johnny Novgorod:

I want movies about superheroines.

lol. I'm a dunce. I misread that. I'm no longer confused now. :) Yeah I'm with you though. Hopefully they do a Ms. Marvel movie in the middle of all this. She's the really big name that sticks out to me in the Marvel universe. More or less their Wonder Woman.

Or cut out the faffing and just make her Captain Marvel.

Not a bad idea. Except I like her Miss Marvel uniform better. If she gets that one piece body suit of The Captain then she should keep the hair.

KazeAizen:

WolfThomas:

KazeAizen:

lol. I'm a dunce. I misread that. I'm no longer confused now. :) Yeah I'm with you though. Hopefully they do a Ms. Marvel movie in the middle of all this. She's the really big name that sticks out to me in the Marvel universe. More or less their Wonder Woman.

Or cut out the faffing and just make her Captain Marvel.

Not a bad idea. Except I like her Miss Marvel uniform better. If she gets that one piece body suit of The Captain then she should keep the hair.

The one-piece is a classic but I feel only works in comics. When you see people cosplaying with it, it's well silly. I think they'd probably merge elements of the two costume. But the new costume would translate to film very easily.

I just think Carol is a better captain marvel than the original. Captain Marvel sounds better than Ms. Marvel too.

Ms. Marvel would probably be a better name as more than likely, when non comic readers hear Captain Marvel they are more likely to think DC's Captain Marvel (Shazam), if they think of anyone at all. I personally think her character would be a good piece. I also think they could do a very good job with She-Hulk as well.

Marvel Noob Question here [not really. I read a lot Marvel comics, but not anymore].

What kind of connection Ant-Man and Ultron have?

SweetShark:
Marvel Noob Question here [not really. I read a lot Marvel comics, but not anymore].

What kind of connection Ant-Man and Ultron have?

In the original comics Hank Pym, the first Ant-Man, created Ultron. Though as far we know neither Ant-Man is creating him in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

KazeAizen:

SweetShark:
Marvel Noob Question here [not really. I read a lot Marvel comics, but not anymore].

What kind of connection Ant-Man and Ultron have?

In the original comics Hank Pym, the first Ant-Man, created Ultron. Though as far we know neither Ant-Man is creating him in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Wait, Ant-Man created this?

image

What kind of hero you must be to create a Robot like that? I am not talking being evil, but about the design.
LOOK AT IT!!!! How can you see this smile and not say it isn't evil?!?!?

SweetShark:

KazeAizen:

SweetShark:
Marvel Noob Question here [not really. I read a lot Marvel comics, but not anymore].

What kind of connection Ant-Man and Ultron have?

In the original comics Hank Pym, the first Ant-Man, created Ultron. Though as far we know neither Ant-Man is creating him in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Wait, Ant-Man created this?

image

What kind of hero you must be to create a Robot like that? I am not talking being evil, but about the design.
LOOK AT IT!!!! How can you see this smile and not say it isn't evil?!?!?

Yes and I don't know. Maybe he had the design sensibilities of a teenager? It was the silver age. Weirder stuff happened than Hank Pym making a psychotically designed robot. :)

SweetShark:

KazeAizen:

SweetShark:
Marvel Noob Question here [not really. I read a lot Marvel comics, but not anymore].

What kind of connection Ant-Man and Ultron have?

In the original comics Hank Pym, the first Ant-Man, created Ultron. Though as far we know neither Ant-Man is creating him in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Wait, Ant-Man created this?

image

What kind of hero you must be to create a Robot like that? I am not talking being evil, but about the design.
LOOK AT IT!!!! How can you see this smile and not say it isn't evil?!?!?

The best way to think of Ant Man is to imagine if a Mad Scientist became a superhero

If people keep on giving them massive profits for making this shit, they will continue to do so. With as many characters as they have the legal rights to do so with. Because people seem to like the CG and the sarcasm and so on. I guess if they keep moving on to different characters then that keeps their main star cost to below the $20M mark.

 

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