True Anti-Conformism

After reading the recent thread on non-conformism, I have noticed several things.

First, the terms non-conformism and anti-conformism are frequently mixed up. Non-conformism means to ignore what society dictates you to do and strike out on your own, while anti-conformism means to turn and spit in society's face, doing things just to shock or spite them.

Second, what anti-conformism used to mean has become lost in the fog. Anti-conformists have always been the rebels with a cause, the people who broke laws, conventions, and norms for the sake of a purpose, a great reason worth their attention. Nowadays, being anti-conformist simply means hating Twilight because it's all the girls talk about. It's become nothing but a knee-jerk reaction to popular culture and it makes me sick.

True anti-conformists are the people who question the norms, ask "Why does Twilight appeal to high school girls so much?" or "Why is it that today's society automatically tends to hate that which others love?". These are the people who break down society into questions, looking for answers about what humanity has become, from the mundane to the epic.

Despite the grandstanding in my previous point, I have recently come to face the ugly truth that the media has boiled away most of the inquisitive thought that comes with childhood. The "Why?"s of of youth have been reduced to "Yeah, who cares?" of today's generation.

To end this little pseudo-rant, I'd like to start a serious on questioning and breaking the norms. To start it off:

Why am I expected to give up me seat to another passenger on a bus (female, elderly, etc.)? I have as much right to the seat as anybody else, so why the unreasonable expectation?

Er...it's not entirely unreasonable, it's just being polite. Then again, if the situations were reversed, I don't think that I as an elderly person would should be automatically given a seat merely because I'm old...then again, that might be human pride talking, I'd like to think when I'm old I'm fully capable of standing up under my own power for long periods of time, but, honestly I'd have to wait till I get there first and see.

As for a pregnant woman...well, why not? (Although strictly speaking for a non-pregnant/disabled woman it -is- only politeness that dictates a man give up a seat for a woman, and they are not 'entitled' to a seat regardless of how social norms would have you believe.)

I consider myself a non-conformist...

I don't think much about it past that, I like what I like, and damn everyone else. I could really care less.

too many "non-conformist" are in a pissing match just to hate something because its popular, or because its generally accepted norm.

It's worse then playing "Keep up with the Smiths", because its "How can I be different (therefore better) then the Smiths!"
Well if you were a true non-conformist, you wouldn't give a shit what the Smiths were doing, you'd look at their new car, or new paint job on the house and go "Uh, thats nice" and forget about it.

(Any giving your seatt up for a lady or an elderly person doesn't make you a conformist, it makes you a gentleman, not giving your sat up just makes you like every other self-absorbed asshole) But thats my two cents.

Well the reason you give your seat up is a little thing called common courtesy. I know it's becoming more and more rare, but you should at least attempt to give it. If you consider giving up your seat for a lady an unreasonable expectation...well, wow actually in no way is that an unreasonable expectation.

You mentioned Twilight several times and I must say this was a bad choice. Yes it is currently the popular thing to love or hate depending on which side of the line you are on. Unfortunately it's also awful...just just awful. So it isn't really the best example since so many people hate it not because the popular thing to do is hate it, but because it's just so bad. Before you ask, no I don't dislike Twilight because of popular opinion. I hate it because it physically harmed me to read it.

Also, the media hasn't burned away inquisitive thought. The schools have taken care of that when they stopped teaching kids how to think, in some cases even trying to stifle thought, so that the kids can get better scores on the crap standardized tests and not go against the no child left behind act.

It's called being polite. Elderly people are weaker, and pregnant woman are carrying around a extra, very heavy weight. My sister was recently pregnant (Gave birth now, though! Healthy baby girl!), and her ankles would swell considerably from the weight. And that doesn't tickle. It's painful.

I don't think anti-conformist or non-conformist is synonymous with 'being an inconsiderate douche-bag'.

If the person is in fine health, however, then i'd say it's just being polite. I would probably give up my seat for a woman, but I'm a little old fashioned that way.

Nonconformism....anticonformism...gah.

In the words of the great Hugh Laurie (Dr House): Oh, stop hiding!

You don't like rules. Fine. We get. Please don't have the arrogance to pretend that this makes you important. Important people question important rules, not why girls like twilight or giving up bus seats to pensioners. Important rules like "A black person may not sit here, save in the abscence of a white person." Those kind of important rules. Not bullshit like that.

Nonconformism is where you are doing something for a point, for a reason other than your own selfinterest. It means doing something on behalf of others, for them as much as for yourself. You are no nonconformist.

If you really want to spit in society's face, spit in the face of people you meet.

Hogging a bus seat is nothing. If you want to be a real hardcore anti-conformist, stop talking and start spitting.

conformism is almost in the same category as metaphysics, u cant really prove or disprove, you can certainly argue, but nobody can really win. No matter what you do a any point in time, you will conform to something, in some way, there is no avoiding it.

(and the other thread was less about conformity and more about annoyance at over-hype)

Jenny Creed:
If you really want to spit in society's face, spit in the face of people you meet.

Hogging a bus seat is nothing. If you want to be a real hardcore anti-conformist, stop talking and start spitting.

Aye, they should be honored! Amongst the Fremen that is considered a sign of respect!

PumpItUp:

True anti-conformists are the people who question the norms, ask "Why does Twilight appeal to high school girls so much?" or "Why is it that today's society automatically tends to hate that which others love?". These are the people who break down society into questions, looking for answers about what humanity has become, from the mundane to the epic.

But isn't that just conforming to the anti-conformists views of what an anti-conformist SHOULD do?

Here is my view on anti-conformists:
I used to be a street punk. A squeejee kid. I looked like a dirtbag, I acted like an asshole, I was harassed and pepper sprayed by cops. I was an "anti-conformity" kind of person. I found that it spawned only a few things within myself. Firstly it spawned an elitism that I look back on with disgust. Why did I think I was better than others because I listened to punk? And why do punks, who's main tenet's include an destruction of inequalities and social barriers, continue to act like elitist pricks? The other thing it spawned was dislike. I was a disliked person. There is a certain reason that I stopped being an anti-conformist. Because I'm conforming to a standard in my anti-conformist stance, and I'm not conforming by living a regular, functioning life. There is a reason that society has rules, and standards, because it fucking works. Look in the animal kingdom, its not anarchy, animals follow a specific way of life based on a social structure. If this system of social structure is how society has evolved then I will be a part of it. This isn't to say that I won't still question certain social standards, but I'm not going to spit in their faces just for the sake of calling myself an "Anti-Conformist".

As to your query about the bus seats? Yes I've had complete assholes try and take my seat for no good reason but here's the thing. Are you tired? Could they be more tired than you? Might they deserve a seat as well? The reason why we give seats to specific people? Its because they need them, you don't need them. This isn't a case of racial oppression like the "back of the bus" days, okay? This is common fucking courtesy.

Jenny Creed:
If you really want to spit in society's face, spit in the face of people you meet.

Hogging a bus seat is nothing. If you want to be a real hardcore anti-conformist, stop talking and start spitting.

Or even better, start murdering, being an insane sociopath is about as anti-conformist as you can be.

Also, about the bus, I would probably give up my seat, just because I don't really care. It's a little thing in life, sometimes you just got to 'let it ride'(good old Randy Bachman quote).

Wouldukindly:

Jenny Creed:
If you really want to spit in society's face, spit in the face of people you meet.

Hogging a bus seat is nothing. If you want to be a real hardcore anti-conformist, stop talking and start spitting.

Or even better, start murdering, being an insane sociopath is about as anti-conformist as you can be.

Take it from me: That was before being a sociopath was cool.
Now everyone aspires to kill people, and it's just another clique.

GothmogII:

Jenny Creed:
If you really want to spit in society's face, spit in the face of people you meet.

Hogging a bus seat is nothing. If you want to be a real hardcore anti-conformist, stop talking and start spitting.

Aye, they should be honored! Amongst the Fremen that is considered a sign of respect!

Well, no. They never spit in the face. I do recall a table spitting incident, however.

so by claiming to be a non-conformist or anti-conformist don't you conform into being an anti-conformist or non-conformist?

lol im black, not doing what "the man" tells me is kinda my thing

Fightgarr:
Here is my view on anti-conformists:
I used to be a street punk. A squeejee kid. I looked like a dirtbag, I acted like an asshole, I was harassed and pepper sprayed by cops. I was an "anti-conformity" kind of person. I found that it spawned only a few things within myself. Firstly it spawned an elitism that I look back on with disgust. Why did I think I was better than others because I listened to punk? And why do punks, who's main tenet's include an destruction of inequalities and social barriers, continue to act like elitist pricks? The other thing it spawned was dislike. I was a disliked person. There is a certain reason that I stopped being an anti-conformist. Because I'm conforming to a standard in my anti-conformist stance, and I'm not conforming by living a regular, functioning life. There is a reason that society has rules, and standards, because it fucking works. Look in the animal kingdom, its not anarchy, animals follow a specific way of life based on a social structure. If this system of social structure is how society has evolved then I will be a part of it. This isn't to say that I won't still question certain social standards, but I'm not going to spit in their faces just for the sake of calling myself an "Anti-Conformist".

As to your query about the bus seats? Yes I've had complete assholes try and take my seat for no good reason but here's the thing. Are you tired? Could they be more tired than you? Might they deserve a seat as well? The reason why we give seats to specific people? Its because they need them, you don't need them. This isn't a case of racial oppression like the "back of the bus" days, okay? This is common fucking courtesy.

QFT, ever bit of it. Society creates norms for reasons. Sure, question them, but just because they can be questioned doesn't mean they're wrong.

And how the hell is giving up your seat on the bus to an elderly person unreasonable? Personally, I think being a dick and keeping the seat while an old dude with arthitis stands there in pain is MUCH more unreasonable.

I think alot of you are mistaking my opinion for something else. I'm not being an arrogant asshole who hates rules, as some of you think, but I'm merely encouraging questioning thought, to challenge preconcieved notions and norms.

I used the bus example to question WHY we use common courtesy. WHY is common courtesy the reigning expectation. WHERE did it come from, stuff like that.

Surely being non-conformatist is being conformatist, as non-conformatism is now the fashion?

Being part of a fashion makes you a conformist too. In fact, there's no actual way to say that you're not a conformist if you're describing yourself as a type. So, the only way to get away with it is to do as I do.

Hi. I'm me, and I can only be me. And since there's only one of me, I can't conform to others. That doesn't make me an 'ist. That makes me a me. Peace out.

I came to the conclusion that all the conformists and anti conformists are just walking sacks of meat for me to look down on. I like breaking social conventions though just to see peoples reactions, like singing and air guitaring in the street, which is always fun, or going and screwing with my local shop by asking them strange questions about their 8p Curry powder (I keep the view its made from drug addicts they lure behind the store and then cut up with a lawnmower) its so fun to be free and careless.

Fightgarr:
Here is my view on anti-conformists:
I used to be a street punk. A squeejee kid. I looked like a dirtbag, I acted like an asshole, I was harassed and pepper sprayed by cops. I was an "anti-conformity" kind of person. I found that it spawned only a few things within myself. Firstly it spawned an elitism that I look back on with disgust. Why did I think I was better than others because I listened to punk? And why do punks, who's main tenet's include an destruction of inequalities and social barriers, continue to act like elitist pricks? The other thing it spawned was dislike. I was a disliked person. There is a certain reason that I stopped being an anti-conformist. Because I'm conforming to a standard in my anti-conformist stance, and I'm not conforming by living a regular, functioning life. There is a reason that society has rules, and standards, because it fucking works. Look in the animal kingdom, its not anarchy, animals follow a specific way of life based on a social structure. If this system of social structure is how society has evolved then I will be a part of it. This isn't to say that I won't still question certain social standards, but I'm not going to spit in their faces just for the sake of calling myself an "Anti-Conformist".

As to your query about the bus seats? Yes I've had complete assholes try and take my seat for no good reason but here's the thing. Are you tired? Could they be more tired than you? Might they deserve a seat as well? The reason why we give seats to specific people? Its because they need them, you don't need them. This isn't a case of racial oppression like the "back of the bus" days, okay? This is common fucking courtesy.

Woah!

Quite amazing.

PumpItUp:
I think alot of you are mistaking my opinion for something else. I'm not being an arrogant asshole who hates rules, as some of you think, but I'm merely encouraging questioning thought, to challenge preconcieved notions and norms.

I used the bus example to question WHY we use common courtesy. WHY is common courtesy the reigning expectation. WHERE did it come from, stuff like that.

I don't think free and critical thought qualifies you for any labels in the conformist family. It's just a basic prerequisite for a healthy growing consciousness.

Jenny Creed:

PumpItUp:
I think alot of you are mistaking my opinion for something else. I'm not being an arrogant asshole who hates rules, as some of you think, but I'm merely encouraging questioning thought, to challenge preconcieved notions and norms.

I used the bus example to question WHY we use common courtesy. WHY is common courtesy the reigning expectation. WHERE did it come from, stuff like that.

I don't think free and critical thought qualifies you for any labels in the conformist family. It's just a basic prerequisite for a healthy growing consciousness.

I don't know about you but I don't see a whole lot of free and critical thought nowadays. People simply seem content to buy whatever is "in", what food, drinks, games, clothes, music, and just about everything else that someone else has.

I do not know what I would be classified as, I might be a non-conformist because I am always questioning societies practices and values. Such as going to prom or buying a diamond ring for that special someone even though it was probably obtained through trading with violent militant groups in Sierra Leone. And we are expected to do this because De Beers made everyone think that a man doesn't think a woman is special if he doesn't give her a bloody RING! *gasp Now that's done, I actually do believe I am somewhat of a non-conformist. As for the bus seat thing, it's not really about conforming to society's rules so much as it's a recognition that it'd be easier for you to stand up than for them. If you see it as, when you get older would you want to stand on a bus with your crumby knees just because some twat was trying to be "NON CONFORMIST YAHH!!!"?

Agreed with the past few comments. Conformism/non-conformism never sat well with me simply because they are 1) -isms, and just about anything with an -ism demands conforming to it to be considered a part of the -ism, and 2) whether you are a conformist or not depends on what society surrounds you. If by conformist you mean a person who just follows the crowd and buys what the tee-vee tells them to, and non-conformist is a person capable of self-actualization and critical thinking, what happens when a non-comformist is introuced into a group of self-actualized critical thinkers?

My take: who cares? Be yourself, don't infringe on anyone else's safty or happiness, and if someone has a problem with that, screw 'em.

 

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