So apparently JonTron is a racist

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 . . . 16 NEXT
 

Not sure if this belonged in off-topic or R&P

I can't embed this video for some reason so you will have to go see it on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM&t=67s

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonTron/comments/5z69gh/35_quote_compilation_of_the_debate/

So, for some reason Jon Jafari decided to it was time to change careers from entertainment to political pundit and it is going horribly. During a streamed debate with streamer Destiny, the beloved youtuber said quite a few things with rather racist implications. Some choice quotes:

"Wealthy Blacks commit more crimes than poor whites, thats a fact."

"They're [whites] are not being killed, they're being displaced. You are the same guy who says that Europeans displaced the native Americans but apparently, when other people do it to white Americans, it's okay because fuck white people."

"Why is it when the chinese were trying to colonise tibet, why was that a save tibet situation but when it's white people... I'm using an analogy to try to give a parallel situation so you can see the hypocrisy."

"I don't recall Trump ever saying anything explicitly racist."

"We've gotten rid of discrimination in our western countries. If you don't think we've gotten rid of discrimination, you're living in a fantasy land."

The whole thing was a mess and it seemed like Jon was woefully unprepared for this "debate". Destiny kept trying to get Jon to expand on his ideas, but every time he did that Jon would change the subject. It felt like Jon was sticking his head in the sand and refusing to engage, which begs the question of why he participated in the first place. The youtube comment section is a hive of alt right buzzwords and Jon apologists. This really sucks.

Gotta remove from the politics from the person if you want to enjoy their content

Can't say I have a stake in this so that's my opinion...

OR IS IT

DISPLACEMENT TEST: Can you drive to McDonalds in blackface and get biggest Big Mac value meal? If yes: Not being displaced.

Okay, serious time..

Dansen:
Destiny kept trying to get Jon to expand on his ideas, but every time he did that Jon would change the subject. It felt like Jon was sticking his head in the sand and refusing to engage, which begs the question of why he participated in the first place.

Because the alt-right don't care.

They're not interested in what's actually true or what's actually going on in the world, they're interested in what would need to be going on in the world for their feelings and prejudices to be justified, and they know that some people are going to share those feelings and prejudices and thus claim that they've "won" the debate regardless of what actually happens or how it goes.

Umberto Eco, who grew up under Mussolini, described what he called "the cult of action for the sake of action" as one of the symptoms of fascism or proto-fascism. To fascists, debate, conversation or reason are automatically signs of effeminacy and weakness. Everything is a crisis requiring immediate action and agreement (in intellectual and scientific circles, disagreement is celebrated as a way of testing and improving human knowledge - to fascists, disagreement is treason).

I don't think Jontron is a fascist, he seems more like an idiot, but he's pandering to an audience with pretty clear protofascist tendancies. There's a "crisis" or "invasion" going on. Anyone who disagrees is weak, effeminate or a traitor to their own race, nation or people. Intellectualism, including the practice of reasoned academic debate, is automatically distrusted as a sign of cultural degeneracy which leaves culture weak and open to subversion. What matters is not countering arguments or demonstrating the factual basis of your claims, but merely stating their urgency and the immediate necessity of acting.

That, to some people, is enough to constitute "winning" the debate.

Dansen:

"We've gotten rid of discrimination in our western countries. If you don't think we've gotten rid of discrimination, you're living in a fantasy land."

...Was he high saying this? No, really--was he?

Does he think that out of the billions of people living in "our western countries," not a single one ever gets discriminated? Really?

Dansen:
N

"Wealthy Blacks commit more crimes than poor whites, thats a fact."

This is true

"They're [whites] are not being killed, they're being displaced. You are the same guy who says that Europeans displaced the native Americans but apparently, when other people do it to white Americans, it's okay because fuck white people."

This is actively celebrated by people

"Why is it when the chinese were trying to colonise tibet, why was that a save tibet situation but when it's white people... I'm using an analogy to try to give a parallel situation so you can see the hypocrisy."

He's not wrong about him being a hypocrite

"I don't recall Trump ever saying anything explicitly racist."

Despite fake news attempts to make Islam and illegal immigrants a race most people are aware of the fact that no, a religion and a specific criminal act is not a race.

"We've gotten rid of discrimination in our western countries. If you don't think we've gotten rid of discrimination, you're living in a fantasy land."

While hyperbolic, it's closer to reality then the picture progressives pretend is the case.

The whole thing was a mess and it seemed like Jon was woefully unprepared for this "debate".

Yes Destiny got his ass wooped. Then again this is a guy who ducked out of a twitter discussion with Naked Ape because he didn't think that a gay conservative would be ready for a debate.

Destiny can't handle the bants and JonTron isn't racist.

Queen Michael:

Does he think that out of the billions of people living in "our western countries," not a single one ever gets discriminated? Really?

The Western world is only 810 million people, unless you count the Southern Cone and Brazil, in which case it's just a singular billion.

That being said, while people do still face discrimination (especially in the US where it's practically mandated against whites and Asians) Jon's statement is much closer to reality then what modern progressivism pretend it is. He's wrong, but he's not as wrong as most of those pretending his statement is some great rejection of reality. We still have people who believe the patriarchy is real in the West or that white privilege is a thing despite how neither is something someone who hasn't spent the totality of their professional career is the halls of a social 'science' wing of a university instead of in the real world where those hypothesise are shattered in minutes of observation.

Yeah, I saw this on Reddit and... whew boy. Jon really should've stuck to just making videos, whenever he starts throwing his hat into political opinions he tends to... fuck everything up horrendously for everyone. The JonTron subreddit in particular has had a rather... collective realization about the whole thing.

then again, you associate with shitheads like Sargon you kinda should expect this kind of shit going down...

As for this thread... *looks at current replies*

image

This is going to be some fine discourse.

Ooohhhh boy. Stick to what you're good at man.

I also saw this on Reddit and even prior to this interview there have been some questions on Jon's political stances. His interview with Brietbait or whatever it's called for example. His fan base are surprised from what I gathered for it seems before the last year or so Jon was considered rather centrist in his views.

There was also someone on Escapist that seemed pretty upset with his turn around. I feel for them.

As for myself this situation is a resounding: "Whatever". I don't watch his videos might have done so once or twice years ago. I have not read/watched/listen to anything related to Jon's political views expect for things said secound hand (like in this thread) but it's enough to insure I continue to ignore him.

Also agreeing with Wred Brogen above that this thread should be an interesting read at least.

Bob_McMillan:
Ooohhhh boy. Stick to what you're good at man.

Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean he isn't right about what he's talking about.

Relevant:

Zontar:

Queen Michael:

Does he think that out of the billions of people living in "our western countries," not a single one ever gets discriminated? Really?

The Western world is only 810 million people, unless you count the Southern Cone and Brazil, in which case it's just a singular billion.

That being said, while people do still face discrimination (especially in the US where it's practically mandated against whites and Asians) Jon's statement is much closer to reality then what modern progressivism pretend it is. He's wrong, but he's not as wrong as most of those pretending his statement is some great rejection of reality. We still have people who believe the patriarchy is real in the West or that white privilege is a thing despite how neither is something someone who hasn't spent the totality of their professional career is the halls of a social 'science' wing of a university instead of in the real world where those hypothesise are shattered in minutes of observation.

My mistake with the numbers. Still, that's hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds, and additional hundreds of millions of people, and I think we can agree it's ridiculous of JonTron to claim that not a single one of them is being discriminated against. Especially since he's claiming that whites are being displaced, which counts as a form of discrimination.

It's Orwellian double-think to the extreme. "Discrimination against American whites is real, and must be stopped! Also, if you think discrimination still happens in the western world, you're crazy. We must stop discrimination, even though it doesn't happen!"

And even if discrimination had stopped completely, how could JonTron claim to know that for sure? Has he gone through every hiring process in every company in the USA to make sure no minority applicants were treated unfairly?

I don't think that deep down, JonTron actually believes that B.S. about discrimination being gone. It's probably just a thing he wants to believe. He likes to think of himself as a person who doesn't buy into the myth of discrimination, but if he were to be honest with himself he'd admit that it's real.

It's kind of like this woman who wrote a hilariously bad New Age book I found at the public library the other day. She said she believed in unicorns and mermaids, but it didn't seem like she actually believed in them as things that really existed and might show up outside your door. She just liked to regard herself as a person who had enough sense of childhood left to believe in unicorns. She didn't actually think they existed, regardless of what she might tell her readers (and herself).

Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for the hypocritical comments made by the people that were arguing to "Separate the art from the artist" barely months ago.

Guilion:
Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for the hypocritical comments made by the people that were arguing to "Separate the art from the artist" barely months ago.

Out of curiosity when was that? Was it a general discussion on "Separating the Art from the Artist" or was it about a particular instance?

Queen Michael:
He likes to think of himself as a person who doesn't buy into the myth of discrimination, but if he were to be honest with himself he'd admit that it's real.

I think the problem is mostly captured here, not in the fact that he doesn't seem to believe that discrimination isn't a thing, but that from the looks of it the alternative many are pushing is the opposite extreme: that it's still around as though Jim Crow was still a thing, that it's worst today then it was in the past, that patriarchy and privilege hypothesis (I'm not going to pretend it's a theory because it's Intelligent Design tier and would sully the name) are a thing, that equality before the law isn't a thing, that systemic oppression is still a thing.

With how frequent and loud you can hear people in ivory towers who've never set food outside their gated communities cry about these things, for a guy on the street it doesn't take much to shrug and say "that's all bullshit", which is made all the worst because 1) by virtue of being much closer to the truth then what those in the ivory towers cry it makes it far easier to believe, and 2) it makes the cases of actual problems harder to actually deal with because people aren't inclined to believe it's happening since if 99% of cases are the boy crying wolf why give the time of day to the other 1%?

JonTron is unquestioningly wrong in that one singular statement, but it should be remembered that many of those rallying against him have no place to do so given how equally or greater they are in terms of their detachment from reality on the subject.

I bet Arin and Danny are glad they dodged that bullet.

Story:

Guilion:
Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for the hypocritical comments made by the people that were arguing to "Separate the art from the artist" barely months ago.

Out of curiosity when was that? Was it a general discussion on "Separating the Art from the Artist" or was it about a particular instance?

I've seen it brought up a handful of times around these parts, the most recent one that I remember was Tim Schafer when the Psychonauts 2 Kickstarter came up (I'm having a genuine hard time finding the thread but I do remember it happening); Before that I've seen it brought up with Manveer Heir (ME: Andromeda), Amber Scott (Baldur's Gate), Feargus Urquhart (Pillars of Eternity) and Phil Fish (Fez).

Guilion:

Story:

Guilion:
Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for the hypocritical comments made by the people that were arguing to "Separate the art from the artist" barely months ago.

Out of curiosity when was that? Was it a general discussion on "Separating the Art from the Artist" or was it about a particular instance?

I've seen it brought up a handful of times around these parts, the most recent one that I remember was Tim Schafer when the Psychonauts 2 Kickstarter came up (I'm having a genuine hard time finding the thread but I do remember it happening); Before that I've seen it brought up with Manveer Heir (ME: Andromeda), Amber Scott (Baldur's Gate), Feargus Urquhart (Pillars of Eternity) and Phil Fish (Fez).

image

Wait, are you telling me that people who agreed with radical views from artists that alligned with their own they stated one should see the art and artist as separate entities, only for this no longer to be true for an artist who's mostly moderate views do not match their own?

How could this possibly be the case?

1.

Zontar:
"Wealthy Blacks commit more crimes than poor whites, thats a fact."

Zontar:
This is true

Where did you get that fact from

"They're [whites] are not being killed, they're being displaced. You are the same guy who says that Europeans displaced the native Americans but apparently, when other people do it to white Americans, it's okay because fuck white people."

This is actively celebrated by people

Give me an example of people displacing white Americans similar to white Americans displacing Native Americans.

Guilion:

Story:

Guilion:
Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for the hypocritical comments made by the people that were arguing to "Separate the art from the artist" barely months ago.

Out of curiosity when was that? Was it a general discussion on "Separating the Art from the Artist" or was it about a particular instance?

I've seen it brought up a handful of times around these parts, the most recent one that I remember was Tim Schafer when the Psychonauts 2 Kickstarter came up (I'm having a genuine hard time finding the thread but I do remember it happening); Before that I've seen it brought up with Manveer Heir (ME: Andromeda), Amber Scott (Baldur's Gate), Feargus Urquhart (Pillars of Eternity) and Phil Fish (Fez).

Cool thanks I'm unfamiliar with most of these. That is a fair point and I agree it can be pretty hypocritical. I struggle with that too.

However I think it becomes easier to separate people from their work when said work feels distant from their views. And consequently, when they overlap it becomes less hard. You aren't seeing the political views/behavior of Phil Fish in the game Fez itself for example. While a Youtuber I recently unsubbed from had his views well known in some of his content as it was brought up in jokes or discussions ect.

This point was brought up while I was reading the JonTron's subreddit. Appearently a lot of the fans are struggling with separating Jon's work with his political views because even if they aren't outright stated, Jon's work relies partly on the viewer relating to him and having a personal connection with him. Sounds silly, but it was an interesting grievance I thought.

Also, to re enforce your point on inconstancy, not all issues are treated the same. I think people are less likely to separate the art from the artist of someone feels too strongly against the views of the artist. As a personal example, I won't unsub from someone who thinks Steam Greenlight should be kept because I don't feel strongly enough about the issue but I will unsub from someone who justifies doxxing because that is an issue I feel very strongly about. If that makes sense.

Basically I'm agreeing that treating "separate artist from art" as an absolute is a mistake and will make someone hypocritical. But that's a fallacy, I think it's okay to have exceptions.

PapaGreg096:

Where did you get that fact from

The FBI given the conviction rate based on race and cross-referenced with income. Unless there's a massive conspiracy that no one has been able to uncover the existence of, rich black young men are marginally more likely to commit a crime then poor white men are.

Give me an example of people displacing white Americans similar to white Americans displacing Native Americans.

Well first and foremost would be mass immigration. Hell in a move that makes the claim that the left is inherently educated have no basis in reality, when Ann Coulter and Cenk Uygur had their debate a few years back and one of them mentioned whites becoming a minority in the US if trends don't change, the mostly liberal crowed applauded because apparently the stereotype of the American who never looks beyond his country's boarders is true given the state of Brazil and South Africa.

Add to that the fact this colonisation is being done at our own expense no less, with the vast majority of those coming in through mass immigration being life long net drains on our welfare states, especially in places like Germany and Sweden, and you then on top of it all have progressives spend a few decades actively creating a white identity through the use of their identity politics, this all culminates in the only logical response you could imagine with these factors at play: native whites are (not incorrectly) perceiving this as colonisation of their lands at their own expense. This just happens to be the first time in history such an act is happening without a war having been lost.

The worst part of it all is, given how the Western world uses a democratic model, and people will vote in their self interest, the right wing swing we're seeing across the West is only going to continue until the problem is solved one way or another. With socialist parties choosing the peace in our time route, that terrifies me since I actually paid attention in history class.

Story:
Appearently a lot of the fans are struggling with separating Jon's work with his political views because even if they aren't outright stated

I'd wait a week or two before taking anything on r/jontron as being from his fans. The place is currently being brigaded by people who are new, and I can't for the life of me believe that so many people who claim to have been lurkers are suddenly posting about the same general thing at the same time while never having posted before.

undeadsuitor:
I bet Arin and Danny are glad they dodged that bullet.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand weeeeeeeeee're the Safe Grumps!

Zontar:

PapaGreg096:

Where did you get that fact from

The FBI given the conviction rate based on race and cross-referenced with income. Unless there's a massive conspiracy that no one has been able to uncover the existence of, rich black young men are marginally more likely to commit a crime then poor white men are.

Give me an example of people displacing white Americans similar to white Americans displacing Native Americans.

Well first and foremost would be mass immigration. Hell in a move that makes the claim that the left is inherently educated have no basis in reality, when Ann Coulter and Cenk Uygur had their debate a few years back and one of them mentioned whites becoming a minority in the US if trends don't change, the mostly liberal crowed applauded because apparently the stereotype of the American who never looks beyond his country's boarders is true given the state of Brazil and South Africa.

Add to that the fact this colonisation is being done at our own expense no less, with the vast majority of those coming in through mass immigration being life long net drains on our welfare states, especially in places like Germany and Sweden, and you then on top of it all have progressives spend a few decades actively creating a white identity through the use of their identity politics, this all culminates in the only logical response you could imagine with these factors at play: native whites are (not incorrectly) perceiving this as colonisation of their lands at their own expense. This just happens to be the first time in history such an act is happening without a war having been lost.

The worst part of it all is, given how the Western world uses a democratic model, and people will vote in their self interest, the right wing swing we're seeing across the West is only going to continue until the problem is solved one way or another. With socialist parties choosing the peace in our time route, that terrifies me since I actually paid attention in history class.

Can I have a citation for that for the whole FBI data crossing Race and income

And mass immigration is really different from what the colonist did to the native americans, its not like they settled in land they were killing Native Americans

Zontar:

Story:
Appearently a lot of the fans are struggling with separating Jon's work with his political views because even if they aren't outright stated

I'd wait a week or two before taking anything on r/jontron as being from his fans. The place is currently being brigaded by people who are new, and I can't for the life of me believe that so many people who claim to have been lurkers are suddenly posting about the same general thing at the same time while never having posted before.

That still doesn't dissuade from my point about separating artist from art based on how much of those views actually show themselves in the work. though perhaps I shouldn't have said "a lot" maybe "some"?

Also...I appreciate the heads up, but I'm having a hard time believing at least the snippets that I read on there weren't from his real fans. For a few reasons: First you can't decide how dedicated someone is based off of post count. Heck I'd say I'm an Ecapist fan, I've been here from years and lurked even longer and don't even have 1k posts yet. I read Reddit daily but I don't have an account. Second, While people do often sign up just to troll a group. They usually don't open up half hearted concerned discussions like "I'm so conflicted about JonTron" or "Its hard to decided when to separate artist from art." Thirdly many people sign up to new forms during a conflict to discuss it espically of they feel passionate about it. I would sign up to my favorite YouTubers Reddit too if I felt it was a safer or meaningful place to debate something than in the YouTube comment section. And lastly I've seen fans on other sites discuss this with similar vibes, including The Escapist with at least one other person and the OP (I'm willing to bet) who aren't really happy about Jon at the moment or at least disappointed.

To be fair, the OP mentioned that many people were on his side with this, I've only been looking at one view. But I doubt his fandom would only have one side (his supporters).

PapaGreg096:

And mass immigration is really different from what the colonist did to the native americans, its not like they settled in land they were killing Native Americans

While they aren't perfectly analogous (there isn't a wave of early-contact diseases killing 98% of the population after all) the point remains that the demographics of Western nations are being changed with the formerly liberal democrat population being rapidly overtaken by a much faster growing foreign theocratic one. With the trends of the past 20 years, for example, Germany will in 3 generations be an islamic nation, something that has never in history ended well for the non-Muslim population of such a nation. One need only look at Lebanon for a recent example, but frankly every single majority islamic nation in history serves as an example.

The fact this settlement is being done at the cost of natives is also unusual since as I stated previously there was no war lost for such a situation to arise from in the first place. Not a conventional war anyway. While one could mention China's colonialism in Africa as being another example of peacetime settlement, at least they don't have locals flipping the bill for it all. Can't say the same here, where a breathtaking number of people are under the impression mass immigration and a strong welfare state are compatible instead of being in complete opposition to each other.

Story:

To be fair, the OP mentioned that many people were on his side with this, I've only been looking at one view. But I doubt his fandom would only have one side (his supporters).

To be blunt most of his fans will not care since he's never infused his politics in his work, which is actually why many of the social justice types thought he could be won over.

Zontar:

PapaGreg096:

And mass immigration is really different from what the colonist did to the native americans, its not like they settled in land they were killing Native Americans

While they aren't perfectly analogous (there isn't a wave of early-contact diseases killing 98% of the population after all) the point remains that the demographics of Western nations are being changed with the formerly liberal democrat population being rapidly overtaken by a much faster growing foreign theocratic one. With the trends of the past 20 years, for example, Germany will in 3 generations be an islamic nation, something that has never in history ended well for the non-Muslim population of such a nation. One need only look at Lebanon for a recent example, but frankly every single majority islamic nation in history serves as an example.

The fact this settlement is being done at the cost of natives is also unusual since as I stated previously there was no war lost for such a situation to arise from in the first place. Not a conventional war anyway. While one could mention China's colonialism in Africa as being another example of peacetime settlement, at least they don't have locals flipping the bill for it all. Can't say the same here, where a breathtaking number of people are under the impression mass immigration and a strong welfare state are compatible instead of being in complete opposition to each other.

Let's replace "aren't perfectly analogous" with "doesn't work at all." Are there mass killings? Organized military operations? Human atrocities on the level of the trail of tears?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

The utter trampling of a technologically inferior culture? Get those and then it can be compared. Not until then. The Native American population went from 10 million in the 15th century to around 300,000 in the 1900s.

http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/native-americans/

And you honestly think Muslim immigration is in the same ballpark? Not even close to a hundredth close.

Also, three generations? Call me crazy, but I don't think the situations that are causing Muslims to immigrate are going to remain static for three generations. Also I'm a little skeptical about arguments about how Muslim majority countries are violent when very freaking similar claims were made against my ancestors, the Irish. Apparently we hated English civilization, religion, industry, and were a vicious people whose history was a cycle of bigotry and blood. We've been down this path before, and I'm in no hurry to see someone else walk it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment#19th_century

Let's not go back to No Irish Need Apply.

erttheking:

Let's replace "aren't perfectly analogous" with "doesn't work at all." Are there mass killings? Organized military operations? Human atrocities on the level of the trail of tears?

Well mass killings really depends on what you consider "mass", but then again for the first century of European settlement in America the answers are pretty much the same as the current situation.

The utter trampling of a technologically inferior culture? Get those and then it can be compared. Not until then. The Native American population went from 10 million in the 15th century to around 300,000 in the 1900s.

And it went from 100 million to 5 million in the initial decades after contact, with the real atrocities having begun only after colonies had been firmly established and the centuries long war had reached the point of no return.

And you honestly think Muslim immigration is in the same ballpark?

I could just list every single islamic nation to show that yes, it is, but then people love to forget the sheer unparalleled brutality with which that religion was spread, especially in India, making it remarkably violent and brutal even when taking into consideration how this sort of spreading is the norm in human history.

Also, three generations? Call me crazy, but I don't think the situations that are causing Muslims to immigrate are going to remain static for three generations.

The problem isn't sustained immigration at this point (though if Merkel remains in power it will still remain as the single largest driving force behind it), the problem is reproduction. Germans are having too few children and have for a long time, the population has been stagnant for decades now and in East Germany the population was already declining before unification.

The immigrant population on the other hand has a significantly higher then replacement level birth rate. Even if immigration stopped cold turkey, you'd need to have Germans change their family planning pattern for the younger of us here not to see it become an islamic nations.

Also I'm a little skeptical about arguments about how Muslim majority countries are violent,y when very freaking similar claims were made against my ancestors, the Irish.

So don't believe our lying eyes and the totality of Islamic history and its relation with every single non-Islamic entity from its inception until now?

Sorry, but the comparisons with Ireland are even worst then comparing the current settlement of the West with that of the Americas.

undeadsuitor:
I bet Arin and Danny are glad they dodged that bullet.

I was pretty much thinking just this as I was scrolling down... I hope they don't comment on it, they should just stay far away from the situation.

erttheking:
Also I'm a little skeptical about arguments about how Muslim majority countries are violent when very freaking similar claims were made against my ancestors, the Irish. Apparently we hated English civilization, religion, industry, and were a vicious people whose history was a cycle of bigotry and blood. We've been down this path before, and I'm in no hurry to see someone else walk it.

But...this time for real! We were wrong about the Irish, the Jews, the blacks, the Italians and the Spanish, but if we keep claiming it, sooner or later we'll be right, surely?

Personally, I'm thinking it might be the New Zealanders.

Zontar:
Snip

That's not saying a lot in your favor, considering the killing was being done by small isolated colonies without a dedicated infrastructure in uncharted territory. If the killings done by tiny groups are comparable to the killings done by millions of immigrants, I'm really struggling to see how the Muslims immigrants could possibly step up their game.

Your point? It happening later doesn't stop it from being part of the way colonials treated the Native Americans. And thank you for bringing that other statistic up. How is the current situation comparable to a situation where populations dropped by 95%? Where's the white population that dropped by 95% across an entire continent?

Immigration. Read my words. We are talking about the countries those people immigrated to, not the ones they came from. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time imagining a total Muslim takeover of Germany. Might have something to do with the fact that it sounds like something Eric Cartman would warn us about. (That and I'm really straining my imagination to figure out how they would all get to the top of political and economic institutions, considering the elitism that tends to go with them.)

Your argument hinged entirely on the fact that these statistics are going to remain static for the better part of a century. Something I find hard to swallow. Doubly so when birth rates among immigrants tend to drop from the first generation to the second. And even more so if they get access to good education.

http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/rb/RB_402LHRB.pdf

More like I have a hard time swallowing that an entire people is irredeemable and cannot leave peacefully alongside others. But what do I know? I'm " wild, reckless, indolent, uncertain and superstitious".

Yeah, it really isn't. It was viewed as morally acceptable to not hire us based on race, as well as riot and beat us up, but that shit doesn't fly anymore. Thank Christ for that.

erttheking:

That's not saying a lot in your favor, considering the killing was being done by small isolated colonies without a dedicated infrastructure in uncharted territory. If the killings done by tiny groups are comparable to the killings done by millions of immigrants, I'm really struggling to see how the Muslims immigrants could possibly step up their game.

Well they found a way in the previously Christian Lebanon, as well as every other country they are now the majority in. I have my doubts we'd find the first ever exception to the rule here.

Your point? It happening later doesn't stop it from being part of the way colonials treated the Native Americans. And thank you for bringing that other statistic up. How is the current situation comparable to a situation where populations dropped by 95%? Where's the white population that dropped by 95% across an entire continent?

My point remains the early part of settlement, when alliances with different native tribes against other native tribes was the norm as a part of politics, has quite a few parallels with what's happening now (right down to the political theatre), with the largest differences being the lack of diseases ravishing the place (making it more in line with African colonialism then American one) and the fact the native groups in the current situation are the ones financing their own settlement.

Immigration. Read my words. We are talking about the countries those people immigrated to, not the ones they came from. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time imagining a total Muslim takeover of Germany. Might have something to do with the fact that it sounds like something Eric Cartman would warn us about. (That and I'm really straining my imagination to figure out how they would all get to the top of political and economic institutions, considering the elitism that tends to go with them.)

Just because maths is hard doesn't mean anyone has a justification for not understanding how one group facing negative growth and a smaller group facing explosive growth will inevitably lead to the smaller group overtaking the other. The previously smaller group doesn't even need to take over institutions, it just needs to get larger given the democratic system at play. We already have mainstream political parties capitulating to their unreasonable demands and they're still supposedly a fringe minority.

Your argument hinged entirely on the fact that these statistics are going to remain static for the better part of a century. Something I find hard to swallow. Doubly so when birth rates among immigrants tend to drop from one generation to the next. And even more so if they get access to good education.

Well on the German side of things the birth rate has remained fairly consistent for decades now, so there's no reason to suspect that'll change any time soon. As for that of the immigrants, while it's true non-Islamic immigrants tend to have their birth rate normalise with that of the general population after the first generation, second and third generation Turks and Pakistanis in Germany and the UK have not followed this trend, so expecting it to change is also unreasonable.

More like I have a hard time swallowing that an entire people is irredeemable and cannot leave peacefully alongside others.

Well if true that makes you a rare exception amongst the modern left given its open views on the white working class. Not that I'm complaining, that's assured a populist takeover of Europe as not only a matter of when but of how quickly it'll happen.

Yeah, it really isn't. It was viewed as morally acceptable to not hire us based on race, as well as riot and beat us up, but that shit doesn't fly anymore. Thank Christ for that.

So the Irish then where worst off then any demographic is today unless far left fascists like Antifa accuse them of being like them but the wrong shade of fascist.

I don't really see how that changes the fact that a large number of people who hold views that are fundamentally incompatible with those of a Western nation have been let into Europe without vetting, who will never be net contributors to European society, who have created a social crisis not seen since the interwar period and has seen the response by the traditional left and right leaning parties been so criminally incompetent the populist takeover of Europe through the ballot box is now nothing more then a formality and the EU is already dead.

I honestly hope that things get cleared up sooner rather then later because the longer it takes the more violent it will be. White people, for all you can say about us, are very destructive when we get pushed too far. One need only look at the last time whites had a race riot, nothing the black supremacists fuelled riots of the past decade can compare to that one, hundreds dead, a town flattened, and civilian aircraft used as bombers.

Terrifying stuff.

jon no...

Ok so...Im a huge Jontron fan, so I want this to not be true. Now, I have watched alot of Game Grumps, and rewatch his era often, and well, one he tends towards left-wing views, and two...he SUCKS at articulating his views. I dont want to pull a Trump move and say "He doesnt mean anything he says" but I have listened to too many debates he had with Arin where he was totally right, but argued and explained his side absolutely terribly.

I am going to have to watch this whole thing myself before I determine whatever though, cause I dont really trust other's to filter this for me. It is gonna really bum me out though if he said some straight up racist shit.

Mk, well maybe I'll take a look at it, but from what's I read here and what reactions I've gathered in context, I just can't get a feel for whether Jon Tron is possibly justified or not. So until I steel my brain for cringe and exasperation, just answer;

Jon Tron is a Trump supporter? Yes or no?

Because "yes" would make things pretty fucking conclusive real fast.

Edit: Son of a BITCH, 2 hours of that? I dunno.

This is some thread you got here. When Saelune gets to be the voice of reason i think people are really trying to hunt for demons that dont exist. I have not seen the debate (nor i have interest in doing so, i dont follow his content) but the quotes given in OP are not racist, they are either a factual observation (such as crimerate) or his opinion, such as him not remmebering Trump saying anything racist. He may simply not remmeber the mexican judge incident and in this case what he siad is correct - he does not remmeber anything trump said thats racist. Shit, you people got me to defend trump again. fucking hell.

Strazdas:
This is some thread you got here. When Saelune gets to be the voice of reason i think people are really trying to hunt for demons that dont exist. I have not seen the debate (nor i have interest in doing so, i dont follow his content) but the quotes given in OP are not racist, they are either a factual observation (such as crimerate) or his opinion, such as him not remmebering Trump saying anything racist. He may simply not remmeber the mexican judge incident and in this case what he siad is correct - he does not remmeber anything trump said thats racist. Shit, you people got me to defend trump again. fucking hell.

Dont backhand compliment me just yet. I am a fan who wants to believe Jon is a good person and that there is no way this is true. I am biased in favor of Jon, where as if this was someone I did not care for, it would be easier for me to presume they really are racist and move on without more context.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 . . . 16 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here