My thoughts on Alien Covenant

Well, I thought it sucked. What are your guys' thoughts?

Wow,after our arguements with each other I expect you to give off bigger explinations as to why you don't like things.

I mean I tried my best explaining in detail why I liked the first 2 Harry potter movies.

It's like an improved second draft of Prometheus, which roughly makes it into a 6 or 7 out of 10.
To be fair to the movie I had just rewatched the original Alien, and the day after Covenant I went to a theater to see Aliens again.
So you see how circumstance, if you can call it that, lessened whatever power Covenant had considerably.

This is like the third Aliens: Covenant thread, so matching your length with mine, I thought it was the best film I've seen this year, and the #3 Aliens film overall.

Johnny Novgorod:
It's like an improved second draft of Prometheus, which roughly makes it into a 6 or 7 out of 10.
To be fair to the movie I had just rewatched the original Alien, and the day after Covenant I went to a theater to see Aliens again.
So you see how circumstance, if you can call it that, lessened whatever power Covenant had considerably.

Ironically I just did the same thing. I don't know, I thought this was worse than Prometheus and I wasn't a big fan of Prometheus.

Natemans:

Johnny Novgorod:
It's like an improved second draft of Prometheus, which roughly makes it into a 6 or 7 out of 10.
To be fair to the movie I had just rewatched the original Alien, and the day after Covenant I went to a theater to see Aliens again.
So you see how circumstance, if you can call it that, lessened whatever power Covenant had considerably.

Ironically I just did the same thing. I don't know, I thought this was worse than Prometheus and I wasn't a big fan of Prometheus.

I didn't much care for Prometheus either.
But I appreciate that the story isn't as egregiously stupid as Prometheus (while being otherwise identical) and that David added a level of creepiness that Prometheus didn't have his first time around.

Samtemdo8:
Wow,after our arguements with each other I expect you to give off bigger explinations as to why you don't like things.

I mean I tried my best explaining in detail why I liked the first 2 Harry potter movies.

Okay, in terms of my actual thoughts, there are some positives I can give to the film: the cinematography is pretty decent, the effects on the ship and the world are great and the acting is pretty good with what they were given. Michael Fassbender is great as usual.

As for the bad, oh where to begin? The script is terrible, the characters are a bunch of underwritten morons that the film doesn't give you a reason to care, the plot is full of dozens of holes, the effects on the Xenomorphs are pretty bad, it kinda ruins some of the mystique of the original, its dull and not really that scary.

It also brings up some of the philosophical ideas that Prometheus did, but gets quickly forgotten just for the sake of cheap gore.

Johnny Novgorod:

Natemans:

Johnny Novgorod:
It's like an improved second draft of Prometheus, which roughly makes it into a 6 or 7 out of 10.
To be fair to the movie I had just rewatched the original Alien, and the day after Covenant I went to a theater to see Aliens again.
So you see how circumstance, if you can call it that, lessened whatever power Covenant had considerably.

Ironically I just did the same thing. I don't know, I thought this was worse than Prometheus and I wasn't a big fan of Prometheus.

I didn't much care for Prometheus either.
But I appreciate that the story isn't as egregiously stupid as Prometheus (while being otherwise identical) and that David added a level of creepiness that Prometheus didn't have his first time around.

I feel the opposite. Prometheus was stupid, but Covenant I thought was way dumber. David wasn't creepy, but the character was interesting just like Prometheus. Some parts were a little creepy in Prometheus, but I got nothing in terms of feeling scared in Covenant. Then again those are my thoughts.

It's alright. But it's difficult to care when all the characters are idiots. Seriously though, if you're going to send first wave colonists/ scouts on an alien planet use sealed suits. You have no idea what infections and allergic reactions people are going to have. And make sure that EVERYBODY is clear on protocol, including containment procedures.

Didn't see it. I might not even watch it on Blu-ray. I wanted a continuation of Prometheus. I wanted to follow Elizabeth Shaw and David's head to the engineer's home world. As I expected, it seems to be tropy horror, a retread of previous films.

Someone just sent me Angry Joe's response. I don't even subscribe to Angry Joe anymore, because I stopped caring about his opinions and style, but from what I saw of the film, I believe him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAQGAOPu1k0

Best film I've seen this year. Only film I've seen this year.
It was alright, and I got a free poster from the cinema. I'll never put it on my wall, because I never put any posters on my bedroom walls.

So I am rewatching Alien. I am maybe 15 or 16. I've watched Alien and Aliens before but this time I know what to expect I know how scary the Alien is and this time I am thinking about some of the less obvious stuff going on in the background. This time I asking some questions.

Where did that big alien spaceship come from
Who or what is that thing I found out is called a Space Jockey (found out it's name from a mate of mine)
How did it end up on LV426
Were the Aliens already on LV426 and caused the ship to get stuck there or did that ship bring them with it and end up crashing because of something that happened

You know what is great about these questions? They all got asked by Alien and throughout three more movies and a decade and a half we never got an answer. The answer didn't really matter as knowing the answer didn't really change the movies but it was always nice to have a little think about what the answers could be.

Then came along Prometheus, which had a go at trying to answer some of those questions, and then Covenant shows up and continues trying to answer those questions and you know what they can just stop now. The mystery and wonder of how, who and what the Space Jockey was and how it ended up on LV426 was more fun when it was exactly that a mystery and wonder. After two movies that have tried to answer these questions the mystery and wonder is now rapidly becoming a total and utter hot mess.

Err I already made a thread on it last week http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.950241-Anyone-else-watched-Alien-Covenant-Spoiler

Overall, I thought it was better than Prometheus since it's your usual Alien getup but man, David was SALVAGE in that film!

I really liked the camera work.

Left the cinema in protest though and got my money back, so I missed the ending. Couldn't be arsed to look it up yet, but there are just no redeeming qualities to this mediocre action flick, which seconds as a rusty nail in the coffin of this once promising franchise.

I think it's utter shite.

Scott doesn't seem to know what he's doing. The writers keep multiplying and coming up with new, uninspired, disjointed, contradicting nonsense. They don't seem to respect the inspiring power of the first movie, instead opting to simply re-hash some of the "memorable", i. e. more visual scenes into short little vignettes, Scary Movie style.

Maybe Covenant isn't all that's wrong with Hollywood and the majority of mainstream movies it shits out at the moment, but there are enough pointers at a bleak future with more and more shitty movies that aim to replace everything that was good and iconic in the past. It's like a real-life case of Body Snatchers replacing all the landmark IPs with these lukewarm, piss-stained saggy pants of films by the most ignorant millenials with a severe case of attention deficit disorder. Ooh! I know that scene! Ooh! I know what's about to happen, I is learned! Ooh! look! A thing that I've heard people have seen and liked in one of those old movies that I can't watch because I fall asleep before the action actually happens!

Fuck Scott and his handlers. Fuck the writers. Fuck the studio execs. And fuck Lady Bilbo Baggins and her shite haircut.

Scarim Coral:
...David was SALVAGE...

"Salvage". Huh. Yeah, I guess he was literally salvage, lol.

Still wonder how David can beat Walter...

Well, since the colossal stupidity of Prometheus (seriously, it's one of the dumbest movies I've ever seen!) I wasn't exactly holding my breath anyway, and seeing both the reviews and the audience response has solidified that stance. Seems like it's just a retread of the old Aliens plot (for there is only one), with the unfortunate afterbirth that is the stupidity of Prometheus mixed in for good measure.

Natemans:

Samtemdo8:
Wow,after our arguements with each other I expect you to give off bigger explinations as to why you don't like things.

I mean I tried my best explaining in detail why I liked the first 2 Harry potter movies.

Okay, in terms of my actual thoughts, there are some positives I can give to the film: the cinematography is pretty decent, the effects on the ship and the world are great and the acting is pretty good with what they were given. Michael Fassbender is great as usual.

As for the bad, oh where to begin? The script is terrible, the characters are a bunch of underwritten morons that the film doesn't give you a reason to care, the plot is full of dozens of holes, the effects on the Xenomorphs are pretty bad, it kinda ruins some of the mystique of the original, its dull and not really that scary.

It also brings up some of the philosophical ideas that Prometheus did, but gets quickly forgotten just for the sake of cheap gore.

I agree with a lot of this. There are some extremely strong parts of the movie, but ultimately two things stood out.

1) It felt like they tried to simultaneously weave in and abandon/redo Prometheus, and as a huge fan of Prometheus, that was hugely disappointing, but also because a lot of it made no sense and seemed half-baked. Why did David turn into a heel? Why did he kill the engineers? What the hell happened with the cannisters with the black ooze when David dropped them? (seriously though -- what happened? Why did it petrify the engineers instead of disintigrating them (beginning of Prometheus) or mutate them like it did Holloway/Fifield? Why does the movie set up David as the creator of the classic Xenomorph when....there's a giant fucking mural of said Xenomorph in the alien ship in the previous movie?
2) Speaking of making no sense...there are other aspects of the movie not related to Prometheus that bothered me. No spacesuits on a strange planet? Like, at all? Really? The entire Convenant has just ONE shuttle? How very Titanic of them...

I thought it was extremely "okay". I think what this franchise needs is a new director at the helm. Ridley Scott can't get out of his own way at this point. He is clearly much more interested in his philosophical ideas about the nature of humanity, AI, and creation than he is in the aliens at this point. These movies are better when they're simpler. The appeal of the Alien is not the extended lore or any of these overarching themes Scott has been working into the most recent movies. The Alien is just that- alien- an unknowable evil that is the physical embodiment of what we fear could be waiting for us in the dark void of space. I'll take likable, well written characters and a tight plot over the meandering philosophical fluff we've been getting any day.

That being said, I did genuinely enjoy the scenes between David and Walter. I like the ideas of AI achieving sentience or enlightenment and rebelling against their creators, I just kind of wish he was doing it in another movie rather than Alien. A huge leap forward from Prometheus though. Unfortunately I don't think any of the characters were all that likable, certainly no one on the level of Ripley. So when we do lose crew member after crew member (usually in very quick scenes, almost as if Scott included them out of obligation) it's hard to really feel bad about it.

Ezekiel:
Didn't see it. I might not even watch it on Blu-ray. I wanted a continuation of Prometheus. I wanted to follow Elizabeth Shaw and David's head to the engineer's home world.

Just an FYI, I don't think the movie is that great, but you do see these events you're interested in.

There's an inherent problem to explaining something whose strength comes from its ambiguity. All I have to say is "midichlorians" and I'm sure many are on the same page. It's particularly fitting as Scott wants the Alien series to be as prolific as Star Wars (apparently the success of the first SW is why he took on the movie to begin with).

Even putting that aside, this was a poorly executed movie. I know no one's name. Nobody's. I had difficulty keeping track of who was married to who. I didn't care when a character's death was telegraphed over a minute ahead of time in an incredibly obvious way, destroying any tension, suspense or fear. Fassbender is again the best part, but that's because he's really the only one given a chance. Everything else is sped by so quickly that the actors really aren't given the time to stretch their muscles. This crew is even less competent than the Prometheus' crew, far more than can be explained by them being civilians. It can be explained by "this is a toperific movie and the audience demands blood." It's pretty, but that's it.

To top it all off, the core thrust of the movie is a poorly executed bad idea. The aliens were created by a Weyland-Yutani android over the course of a decade between 2094 and 2104 CE. They are the result of a goo made by our creators who were pissed off we killed Jesus. The religious symbolism in Alien 3 taken to an extreme conclusion.

The infuriating thing is so many responses to any criticisms (at least the ones I've seen) use the canonical explanations to shut down criticisms, showing they totally missed the point. I'm not ignorant of the explanations, it's the explanations themselves and the motivations behind them I take issue with. They're awful, terrible explanations that are actively making the original movie worse by association.

Just wait until it's explained the ship on LV-426 was only 10 years old when it was found by the Nostromo, the creature created by humans in a roundabout way only 20 years prior. The pilot a malformed human, not a cargo pilot caught in the midst of an ancient war or even something else. The originally perfectly coherent English distress signal messed up beyond belief for plot reasons, not the remnants of a long-lost civilization laid to waste by unknown methods.

Exley97:
Why does the movie set up David as the creator of the classic Xenomorph when....there's a giant fucking mural of said Xenomorph in the alien ship in the previous movie?

Maybe David didn't actually invent the Xenomorph; he just thought he did. They're an already-known product of the Engineer's experiments, and David just futzes around with the black goo until he makes an alien that it was already designed to make and then throws his arms up in the air and shouts "Lo! I am become God!"

It'd be in-character for the guy. He misquotes Ozymandias at one point, doesn't he?

bastardofmelbourne:

Exley97:
Why does the movie set up David as the creator of the classic Xenomorph when....there's a giant fucking mural of said Xenomorph in the alien ship in the previous movie?

Maybe David didn't actually invent the Xenomorph; he just thought he did. They're an already-known product of the Engineer's experiments, and David just futzes around with the black goo until he makes an alien that it was already designed to make and then throws his arms up in the air and shouts "Lo! I am become God!"

It'd be in-character for the guy. He misquotes Ozymandias at one point, doesn't he?

Sure, but...it still feels like there was a whole lot of explanation missing. For example, we're led to believe that David somehow designed and created the classic egg and facehugger -- but why would he go through the trouble of creating a needless stage of evolution for the Xenomorph if the spores can give birth to a full alien (secretly and more quickly, BTW) *without* the need for the facehugger? Aren't the spores the ideal delivery system? Also...how did the spores come to be? Did David create them? If that's the case, then creating the eggs/facehuggers combo makes even *less* sense. Or were they created inadvertently when he release the ship's cannisters on the engineers? And if that's the case, then why did THAT ooze petrify only the engineers and mutate other living things into Xenomorphic creatures? I can only assume given the discrepancies that there are different versions of the black ooze, but the movie, despite giving us ample background into David's plans, never really clarifies this point.

Also, this has really been bugging -- where are the rest of the engineers? They only have one city on their entire planet? Or did a single ship wipe out the entire species across the planet? Why did they let the juggernaut ship land? They're an incredibly advanced species, yet they have no planetary defense system and no way of knowing who (or who isn't) piloting that ship? They just let a ship fly right in?

Sure, but...it still feels like there was a whole lot of explanation missing. For example, we're led to believe that David somehow designed and created the classic egg and facehugger -- but why would he go through the trouble of creating a needless stage of evolution for the Xenomorph if the spores can give birth to a full alien (secretly and more quickly, BTW) *without* the need for the facehugger?

Well their are a few answers to this one, firstly NO the spore delivery system is not the best way. The movie should have gone in to a bit more detail but I am assuming that the spore delivery system was less a version created by David and more likely a result of him dumping the Alien goo in to the atmosphere, the result being that some plant became infected and created the spore plant we saw in the movie. At least that is what it looked liked. The main issue with that is that with it being a plant chances are it is subject environmental effects, weather temp, location. I would also assume that EVA suits or any full respo system would stop the spore dead. I would also assume that once ejected the spore probabaly doesn't have much time to find a host and the final resulting alien is clearly smaller less well developed and given that it is white probably not anywhere near as well armoured as the traditional Xenomorph.

The egg facehugger combo firstly gives a delivery system, the egg, that is much more hardy. They are generally laid in locations that mean they will survive for a large period of time. I would have to go looking but it seems the eggs are capable of surviving for a very long time if laid in the right location. They can also be carried or moved by the Xenos, again I am sure I saw this somewhere before but would have to go look. The facehugger itself isn't limited by evo suits, is also capable of surviving for periods of time outside the egg, is much more capable of hunting down and finding as well as evading a target and the final Alien it produces is clearly a much better developed version of the Xeno.

And if that's the case, then why did THAT ooze petrify only the engineers and mutate other living things into Xenomorphic creatures? I can only assume given the discrepancies that there are different versions of the black ooze, but the movie, despite giving us ample background into David's plans, never really clarifies this point.

Prometheus shows that the black goo has different effects on different living species, it seems to break down or petrify the Engineers but seems to have mutagenic effects on other species and living matter. The really confusing thing about the whole black goo thing is that it is seen as some sort of WMD in Prometheus but the effects of the stuff are so utterly random no one with even an inch of sense would use it as a weapon because they wouldn't have a fucking clue what it would do.

Also, this has really been bugging -- where are the rest of the engineers? They only have one city on their entire planet? Or did a single ship wipe out the entire species across the planet? Why did they let the juggernaut ship land? They're an incredibly advanced species, yet they have no planetary defense system and no way of knowing who (or who isn't) piloting that ship? They just let a ship fly right in?

The theory kicking about is that these where not the engineers we know, i.e the one from Alien and Prometheus that iinstead they were some sort of slave or subserveant class that either worshipped or relied on the Space Jockeys hence why they almost seem ed to be worshipping the ship as it came in to 'land'. Whatever the reason it is certainly something that requires good deal more explanation.

Man, this movie is horrible. I was expecting for a great movie, that will recover the title of the Alien franchise, but it all started with Angry Joe's review & then I started to realize how they've messed it all up. I've even decided to order an essay on how bad it actually sucks at handmadewritings.com because I actually don't have any words to describe it myself, let the pro's do their job. This franchise is dead since Alien 3, and the dancing on its grave Aliens colonial marines, & stuff like this totally makes me forget about any kind of hope for it. IMHO

Honestly, this movie was pretty much exactly what I was expecting it to be. It's visually interesting, but seriously lacking in depth when it comes to characters and story.

Not to mention there's a bunch of stuff in it, nitpicky things, that bugged me quite a bit.

Saw RLM review of Alien: Covenant and, damn, it dissapointed me before the movie even had a chance.
To put things in perspective, i didn't hate Prometheus; it was a well-made movie that suffered from nearly all the characters having some kind of brain damage. It did remove some of the mystery surrounding Engineers, but for the better or worse, atleast the ending promised next movie dwelving deeper into their motives. But the actual resolve, spoiled thankfully for me in aforementioned review?


Even pushing aside fucking with the canon, the setup feels so weak... i've decided i'm done with this franchise for now.

Exley97:
snip

I feel like a lot of questions about this movie can be answered with "it is a bad movie."

Honestly, I don't know what Ridley Scott is even doing with the franchise. Why does it even still exist?

Like, they had two good films by different directors, then two shitty films, then a long-ass gap and all of the sudden Scott's decided that Aliens is the next big franchise thing and now there's Aliens shit all around the place, and all I can think of is why? What's the point of this story? It's a story about humanity trying to find God, except God got killed by evil aliens, except then it turns out that the evil aliens were made by an android who was made by a douchebag who wanted to be immortal. It's a big fucking ouroboros of "what."

I almost feel like they should've just put some Predators in there, just to make things interesting again.

 

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