So, apparently WW is pretty good.

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Samtemdo8:
@Hawki

But I don't want everything to be turned into Deadpool either.

i want a deadpool post credits scene after EVERY movie :D

on topic.im looking forward to wonder woman and thats saying something.. ive never been a fan but this looks good

Zhukov:

Samtemdo8:
[snip]

Also, while I'm at it, you've picked some really odd examples for "epic and glorious" warfare.

Kingdom of Heaven depicts war as dirty, messy, wasteful and largely unjustified. The first major action scene kicks off with a man being shot with a crossbow while he squats down to take a shit. A major character dies not in a glorious last stand or epic duel but from a lingering wound inflicted by an unnamed nobody. The character who is routinely portrayed as good, down-to-earth, affable and sensible dies off-screen in a futile and disastrous defeat brought about by incompetent leadership. Another sympathetic and sensible character throws up his hands, says "Fuck this, I'm out" and just quits. The battle in the scene you linked ends with men rolling about in the dust among the corpses trying to throttle and eye-gouge each other. It ends with all the bloodshed having been for absolutely nothing.

I can't help but think you weren't paying much attention while watching that movie.

Antz is a comedy. Y'know, with those terrible joke things everywhere. Even then the battle is depicted as a scary and crappy place to be.

Yeah I know Kingdom of Heaven and Antz is gritty, dirty and sad, but goddamn was the scope of it so epic and massive. Like the initial moment all that adreneline rush of charging at your enemy, massive armies beside you, you can't help but feel at awe. But than after all is said and done, the reek of dead corpses around you, all your energy drained and the realization of how sad the whole affair is.

And that's what I think when it comes Warfare, Arcturus Mengsk from Starcraft sums it up fittingly:

"Make no mistake, War is coming"

In all its Glory:

And all its Horror:

Zhukov:

Samtemdo8:
BAH, I wanna know if its treats its warfare as epic and glorious as possible!!!

Dude, it's set in WWI, not fucking Narnia.

Go look up some journals and letters from the soldiers who fought in WWI. Count the number of times they mention how epic and glorious it is after they've spent a few months staving off trench foot and enduring artillery bombardment.

Actually some soldiers really did enjoy their time of it. People like Julian Grenfell described it as "a picnic" and Siegfried Sassoon "exciting" despite both devoting his life to anti-war poetry. Adrian Carton De Wiart treated the whole thing like sport, despite losing enough body parts to build a whole new person. The sad fact is that although we are taught to despise war, there are always going to be plenty of young people who find it inherently cool and fun. People would never become professional soldiers if they didn't.

Desperately hoping it turns out okay because if it fails, movie execs are going to learn all the wrong lessons from it.

That said, not seeing it for a week or three. Gotta let the initial reviews filter through and the hype deflate.

I can see early praise for this movie being true, it's not like DC's previous movies had set the bar very high.

Samtemdo8:

And that's what I think when it comes Warfare, Arcturus Mengsk from Starcraft sums it up fittingly:

I don't think Arcturus Mengsk is the kind of person that you want to listen to when it comes to the morality of warfare...

I'm withholding my enthusiasm, and money, from Wonder Woman. I really would like for it to be good, but the "early" word was the same for MoS, BvS, SS... all the crappy DCEU movies. That were all terrible. I'm waiting for the reviews. Because the "mainstream" critics have done very well nailing how terrible the DCEU movies have been so far. The only DC movie I'll actually pay to see at this point will have the thumbs up from the critics. That will keep me from wasting my money on an awful movie... like I did when I watched Man of Steel. That day one dollar from me, never again.

Hawki:

Samtemdo8:

And that's what I think when it comes Warfare, Arcturus Mengsk from Starcraft sums it up fittingly:

I don't think Arcturus Mengsk is the kind of person that you want to listen to when it comes to the morality of warfare...

Sometimes even the most despicable of people have some words of wisdom.

altnameJag:
Desperately hoping it turns out okay because if it fails, movie execs are going to learn all the wrong lessons from it.

That said, not seeing it for a week or three. Gotta let the initial reviews filter through and the hype deflate.

I'm very much this, given how long Catwoman and Electra were treated as 'proof' that super-heroines were inherently box office poison, not the fact they were garbage movies sunk by (deserved) bad word of mouth.

I'll wait for the reviews before committing.... though still waiting for colossal and get out here.

altnameJag:
Desperately hoping it turns out okay because if it fails, movie execs are going to learn all the wrong lessons from it.

That said, not seeing it for a week or three. Gotta let the initial reviews filter through and the hype deflate.

Just curious, but when you say "turns out ok", do you mean "It's incredibly profitable" ? Or do you mean "Is critically acclaimed as being very good" ? Because I only see one of those two scenarios really mattering to movie execs, and it's the former. Which, sadly, can be said for MoS and BvS. For all the shit they got from fans/critics, they made a shit ton of money. So, WW could be a steaming pile of shit too, but it still might make a ton of money.

Happyninja42:
Just curious, but when you say "turns out ok", do you mean "It's incredibly profitable" ? Or do you mean "Is critically acclaimed as being very good" ? Because I only see one of those two scenarios really mattering to movie execs, and it's the former. Which, sadly, can be said for MoS and BvS. For all the shit they got from fans/critics, they made a shit ton of money. So, WW could be a steaming pile of shit too, but it still might make a ton of money.

I don't think that's entirely accurate.

Certainly, studios will keep pumping out films so long as they turn sufficient profit, critics be damned. One need only look at Transformers or Paul Blart or the entire recent career of Adam Sandler.

However, it seems that somewhere in there people with decision making power do care what is said and printed about their product. We can see this in the DC movies with their efforts to lighten them up a bit after widespread criticism of their glum tone.

BvS opening with an ordinary person's perspective on being caught in the midst of a destructive super-powered punch-up was seen as being a direct response to all the people pointing out that Superman likely killed hundreds of people while crashing through buildings in the finale of MoS. Hence why BvS also featured three separate occasions on which someone helpfully said "That area's uninhabited/evacuated/abandoned" whenever something big exploded.

Saelune:
I am looking forward to it, cause it looks genuinely interesting.

DoPo:
Uh, you could blame me for not keeping up to date with movies, I guess, but when I first read the title, I thought you meant that you think highly of the World War. I assumed the first one. Then I thought it over and decided it doesn't really make sense. Especially since you didn't specify whether you meant the first or the second one (I doubt you're THAT old fashioned), so my next thought was "White Wolf". To which I agree, but then it seemed a bit odd somebody would just post a thread about them - didn't think they did something noteworthy recently. I finally had to check and see it's actually about Wonder Woman.

I thought Wild West, ie the forum here.

Same here. I don't know what to think anymore.

Zhukov:

Happyninja42:
Just curious, but when you say "turns out ok", do you mean "It's incredibly profitable" ? Or do you mean "Is critically acclaimed as being very good" ? Because I only see one of those two scenarios really mattering to movie execs, and it's the former. Which, sadly, can be said for MoS and BvS. For all the shit they got from fans/critics, they made a shit ton of money. So, WW could be a steaming pile of shit too, but it still might make a ton of money.

I don't think that's entirely accurate.

Certainly, studios will keep pumping out films so long as they turn sufficient profit, critics be damned. One need only look at Transformers or Paul Blart or the entire recent career of Adam Sandler.

However, it seems that somewhere in there people with decision making power do care what is said and printed about their product. We can see this in the DC movies with their efforts to lighten them up a bit after widespread criticism of their glum tone.

BvS opening with an ordinary person's perspective on being caught in the midst of a destructive super-powered punch-up was seen as being a direct response to all the people pointing out that Superman likely killed hundreds of people while crashing through buildings in the finale of MoS. Hence why BvS also featured three separate occasions on which someone helpfully said "That area's uninhabited/evacuated/abandoned" whenever something big exploded.

Sure, there is likely some consideration, but was it the "movie execs" or was it the writer and director? My money is on the writer/director making a point about that in the script. Frankly I don't think the people with the money really give a shit for the most part. If the money margin is high enough, even if it gets panned, they still will churn them out. Perfect example being your very own, the Transformers series. Doesn't matter if it's shit, doesn't matter if it's panned by everyone, if it makes them hundreds of millions of dollars in profit, they won't care. Which is why I was asking for clarification from the person I quoted what they meant by "turns our ok". Because that phrase means very different things depending on who you are talking to.

Happyninja42:

altnameJag:
Desperately hoping it turns out okay because if it fails, movie execs are going to learn all the wrong lessons from it.

That said, not seeing it for a week or three. Gotta let the initial reviews filter through and the hype deflate.

Just curious, but when you say "turns out ok", do you mean "It's incredibly profitable" ? Or do you mean "Is critically acclaimed as being very good" ? Because I only see one of those two scenarios really mattering to movie execs, and it's the former. Which, sadly, can be said for MoS and BvS. For all the shit they got from fans/critics, they made a shit ton of money. So, WW could be a steaming pile of shit too, but it still might make a ton of money.

I imagine it's something like I said - any failed female led action movie is suddenly proof that all female led action movies are poison and audiences don't want them. Electra and Catwoman failed because they were dreadful movies that rightfully tanked, but execs decided it was all the fault of them being female led, and nothing else. If wonder woman tanks, there will be some who will suddenly decide that despite the hunger games, frozen, bridesmaids, so-on and so forth making money hand over fist, people Don't Want female led action movies.

Windknight:
I imagine it's something like I said - any failed female led action movie is suddenly proof that all female led action movies are poison and audiences don't want them.

Relevant XKCD comic:

It's pi plus C, of course.

Saelune:

Hawki:

Saelune:

Despite the asinine re-naming, I am looking forward to the Ms. Marvel movie thats...eventually coming.

You mean Captain Marvel?

I can't really comment, but "Captain" sounds a more impressive title than "Ms." And before I'm accused of sexism or whatnot, I'll specify that the same holds true for Captain America (vs. "Mr America").

Ironically, Ms. Marvel was called that to appeal to feminists, since at the time Ms was a relatively new alternative that does not denote marital status for women.

Well that and to differentiate between them being two different Marvel comic book characters now.

KissingSunlight:
I think Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice did a really good job of portraying how people would react to a god-like creature running rampant around the world, and there is nothing we can do to stop him. If he decides to take over the world.

And put that down for "The exact OPPOSITE of what I want in a Superman movie". If I wanted to see a deconstruction of "What would it be like if a godlike being appeared? How would the real world react?" I would watch or read some Alan Moore comic or some deconstruction comic, or some Elseworlds comic.

But this isn't some standalone movie. This is tied into the greater cinematic DC canon. This is a world where people like The Flash, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman exist and have existed. This is a world where people putting on costumes and fighting bad guys isn't some thing exclusive to Superman.

Having Man of Steel's tone in the first canon unified Superman movie for your new universe is... To put it in anime terms, it's like deciding to watch a new Sailor Moon adaptation only you found out that it's actually been reimagined as some shitty "Grim Magical Girl" anime that Madoka inspired by the dozens.

Just, no. No, Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are NOT what I wanted from a DC universe. I don't care if Snyder is trying to be more 'realistic'. I do not want these Heroes to be thrown into our Deconstruction Real World! That's what Elseworlds are for! That's what PARODIES are for!

It's also why I'm kind of resentful towards the idea of the Justice League movie later this year. It's probably irrational, but my only thought was "Okay, DC, no. You don't get to do this. You had messy set-ups, haven't done anything better than mediocre so far, and you fucking killed Superman before anybody figured out if we liked him or not. You don't get a Justice League movie until you stop, sit down, and fucking do it right. Talk to your animation department, they seem to have a better idea in literally every way."

OT: I'm going to echo the cautious people. I want Wonder Woman to be good. But I'm going to wait until some reviews from critics I tend to similar tastes to get back before I consider Wonder Woman.

KissingSunlight:
I agree with the Wild West forum is pretty good.

What's that? This is about Wonder Woman.

OK.

I'm looking forward to this movie. Even though, it does seem like a ripoff of Captain America: The First Avenger.

Also, the DC movies haven't been that bad. It's just people who wanted Superman to be a complete fantasy and not grounded in reality. I think Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice did a really good job of portraying how people would react to a god-like creature running rampant around the world, and there is nothing we can do to stop him. If he decides to take over the world.

Superman needed the military's help in Man of Steel and In Batman vs Superman, he's almost killed by Batman. He's powerful but has his limits.

Samtemdo8:
@Hawki

But I don't want everything to be turned into Deadpool either.

There are middle grounds between Dirt by Alice in Chains and Mandatory Fun by Weird Al Yankovic. There is a vast amount of ground to cover between The Lego Movie and Grave of the Fireflies.

Also, portraying WWI as glorious? How much research have you done on the topic prior?

Kyman102:

KissingSunlight:
I think Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice did a really good job of portraying how people would react to a god-like creature running rampant around the world, and there is nothing we can do to stop him. If he decides to take over the world.

And put that down for "The exact OPPOSITE of what I want in a Superman movie". If I wanted to see a deconstruction of "What would it be like if a godlike being appeared? How would the real world react?" I would watch or read some Alan Moore comic or some deconstruction comic, or some Elseworlds comic.

But this isn't some standalone movie. This is tied into the greater cinematic DC canon. This is a world where people like The Flash, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman exist and have existed. This is a world where people putting on costumes and fighting bad guys isn't some thing exclusive to Superman.

Having Man of Steel's tone in the first canon unified Superman movie for your new universe is... To put it in anime terms, it's like deciding to watch a new Sailor Moon adaptation only you found out that it's actually been reimagined as some shitty "Grim Magical Girl" anime that Madoka inspired by the dozens.

Just, no. No, Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are NOT what I wanted from a DC universe. I don't care if Snyder is trying to be more 'realistic'. I do not want these Heroes to be thrown into our Deconstruction Real World! That's what Elseworlds are for! That's what PARODIES are for!

It's also why I'm kind of resentful towards the idea of the Justice League movie later this year. It's probably irrational, but my only thought was "Okay, DC, no. You don't get to do this. You had messy set-ups, haven't done anything better than mediocre so far, and you fucking killed Superman before anybody figured out if we liked him or not. You don't get a Justice League movie until you stop, sit down, and fucking do it right. Talk to your animation department, they seem to have a better idea in literally every way."

OT: I'm going to echo the cautious people. I want Wonder Woman to be good. But I'm going to wait until some reviews from critics I tend to similar tastes to get back before I consider Wonder Woman.

The DCEU isn't deconstructing superheroes. It's reconstructing them. It's showing them try to be heroic and honorable people without the usual cushions like conveniently empty buildings and philosophical opponents turn out to be villains and everyone just accepts the heroes without question. For too long people have treated the consequence free bubbles that superheroes, particularly DC's heroes, exist in as an intrinsic trait rather than writer favoritism. Superman is as heroic and noble as one can be in a world that is not too receptive towards each other much less visitors from another world. Batman is exactly what you'd expect from a guy crazy enough to put on a costume and get into anonymous fist fights with criminals. Wonder Woman from what I heard will be taking a very harsh look at the effects of war and how a naive, young person can be broken by it. These are not awful ideas but because they're not what the comic fans are used too, they're rejected.

Also, the animated series have never exactly shied away from the ugly implications of superheroes either so Snyder isn't doing anything we haven't seen before.

Hawki:

Basement Cat:
I only see one or two movies in theaters per year

...the hell?

I mean, your time your money, not my place to tell you how to spend them, but I see more STAGE PLAYS per year than that.

I save a vast majority of my money for physical releases and, when I'm in a really generous mood, digital games. I can't stand stage-plays because the live nature of it prevents the level of polish I demand. Theater-movies, however, are strictly a special occasion because even I must admit some are just too good to pass up. Kubo and the Two Strings was the best animation last year and I'm happy to have contributed to it nearly breaking even (sob). This year, City of 1,000 Planets is looking to be the best new-to-movies property in literal decades.

Kyman102:
snip

I can understand you want Superman to be like the old movies.

Personally, I don't like them because they are pointless. And far too optimistic. What's the point of a movie where the character's power just match the plot. Superman's power seem to be able to do anything. I personally hope they never do anything like Reeve's Superman again. I'd prefer to watch BvS any day of the week (and I don't like BvS)

Souplex:
Please abbreviate responsibly.
WW means Wild West here.
GoW is Gears of War, not God of War.
WWF is the World Wrestling Federation not Wildlife foundation.
NAMBLA is the National Association of Marlon Brando Look-Alikes.

Still isn't a "like"/"Upvote" option on here, but you made me chuckle aloud.

If DC managed to make this movie genuinely engaging and the characters likeable, I'll be pleasantly surprised. They've struggled with making things "real" which usually means a crappy filter and characters who are clinically depressed all the time. I get it, drama can be a seller, but when you're talking about Superman and Batman, the character drama can't be taking itself too seriously or I'll just start laughing. They're people in goofy costumes with gadgets and powers, for god's sake.

More reviews are in and so far its positive:

I'm glad.

I have always been a DC guy more than Marvel, which is probably the reason I like the MCU more than the DCEU.

Seeing one of their movies not go to absolute shit is great. I'm excited to watch it next week.

Bob_McMillan:
I'm glad.

I have always been a DC guy more than Marvel, which is probably the reason I like the MCU more than the DCEU.

Seeing one of their movies not go to absolute shit is great. I'm excited to watch it next week.

Only by 3 movies?

Where the MCU has 20 already?

And also why are we calling it the DC "E" U and not the DC "C" U?

Extended is very vague because we can consider the DC "A" U the DCEU.

Samtemdo8:

Bob_McMillan:
I'm glad.

I have always been a DC guy more than Marvel, which is probably the reason I like the MCU more than the DCEU.

Seeing one of their movies not go to absolute shit is great. I'm excited to watch it next week.

Only by 3 movies?

Where the MCU has 20 already?

And also why are we calling it the DC "E" U and not the DC "C" U?

Extended is very vague because we can consider the DC "A" U the DCEU.

The MCU at one point only had three movies too. When you compare the MCU at that time to the DCEU now, I definitely prefer the MCU.

I'm not sure why we call it the DCEU. I think WB and DC are the ones who came up with that, because I used to call it the DCCU. I agree that EU makes no sense, especially when EU makes me think of the Star Wars EU.

It's alright. Maybe it's great, I dunno. A superhero movie could be awesome and it would merely feel 'alright' to me these days.

Samtemdo8:

Bob_McMillan:
I'm glad.

I have always been a DC guy more than Marvel, which is probably the reason I like the MCU more than the DCEU.

Seeing one of their movies not go to absolute shit is great. I'm excited to watch it next week.

Only by 3 movies?

Where the MCU has 20 already?

And also why are we calling it the DC "E" U and not the DC "C" U?

Extended is very vague because we can consider the DC "A" U the DCEU.

I've not liked the DCEU films and don't care for them anymore. If people like them, that's fine. I've just realized that I don't care for it anymore.

No, his reason for the MCU comparison is that Marvel has proven itself on how to make good films in my opinion.

Because WB likes making money off of making DLC for their movies. That's why I call BvS and Suicide Squad the equivalent of the game Destiny.

Samtemdo8:
More reviews are in and so far its positive:

Good for them. Hope they had fun. :)

Natemans:

Samtemdo8:

Bob_McMillan:
I'm glad.

I have always been a DC guy more than Marvel, which is probably the reason I like the MCU more than the DCEU.

Seeing one of their movies not go to absolute shit is great. I'm excited to watch it next week.

Only by 3 movies?

Where the MCU has 20 already?

And also why are we calling it the DC "E" U and not the DC "C" U?

Extended is very vague because we can consider the DC "A" U the DCEU.

I've not liked the DCEU films and don't care for them anymore. If people like them, that's fine. I've just realized that I don't care for it anymore.

No, his reason for the MCU comparison is that Marvel has proven itself on how to make good films in my opinion.

Because WB likes making money off of making DLC for their movies. That's why I call BvS and Suicide Squad the equivalent of the game Destiny.

Yeah Iron Man 2 and Thor were "Good" Films :P

Samtemdo8:
More reviews are in and so far its positive:

Are women superheroes now? Do I have to get over it?
I hope Salon or The Mary Sue writes an article that tells me how to feel because they said Ghostbusters 2016 was good as well bht I feel like it was terrible depsite being aggresivly told otherwise.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Samtemdo8:
More reviews are in and so far its positive:

Are women superheroes now? Do I have to get over it?
I hope Salon or The Mary Sue writes an article that tells me how to feel because they said Ghostbusters 2016 was good as well bht I feel like it was terrible depsite being aggresivly told otherwise.

I thought current third wave femenists these days already hate Wonder Woman.

Samtemdo8:

Natemans:

Samtemdo8:

Only by 3 movies?

Where the MCU has 20 already?

And also why are we calling it the DC "E" U and not the DC "C" U?

Extended is very vague because we can consider the DC "A" U the DCEU.

I've not liked the DCEU films and don't care for them anymore. If people like them, that's fine. I've just realized that I don't care for it anymore.

No, his reason for the MCU comparison is that Marvel has proven itself on how to make good films in my opinion.

Because WB likes making money off of making DLC for their movies. That's why I call BvS and Suicide Squad the equivalent of the game Destiny.

Yeah Iron Man 2 and Thor were "Good" Films :P

Hey, I liked Thor. Iron Man 2 sucks though. I'm saying that Marvel has proven to make good movies. Avengers, Iron Man, the Captain America trilogy, both Guardians of the Galaxy films, Doctor Strange, Thor.

Okay ones: Ant-Man, Iron Man 3, Incredible Hulk

Bad ones: Iron Man 2 and Thor The Dark World

Samtemdo8:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Samtemdo8:
More reviews are in and so far its positive:

Are women superheroes now? Do I have to get over it?
I hope Salon or The Mary Sue writes an article that tells me how to feel because they said Ghostbusters 2016 was good as well bht I feel like it was terrible depsite being aggresivly told otherwise.

I thought current third wave femenists these days already hate Wonder Woman.

I find that odd since most I've talked to or seen really like Wonder Woman.

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