Game of Thrones Season 7 discussion thread. (SPOILERS ABOUND)

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Well another year, another Game of Thrones season. In 1 hour as of this post the new episode will begin.

I will say this though, recent months has started to lower my opinion of the TV series especially how much they changed the books to the point of the ruining of charcaters, I think what convinced me fully was Stannis' fate in the show at how much of an out of character incompetent he was. It only drives me to read the books even more.

But I have no money to buy the books and even than I am still waiting for the next one to come out to start buying. So the show is all I have at the moment.

So last time in the series, Jon Snow is King in the North and through Bran's dreams its revealed he is the son of Lyanna Stark and possibly Rheagar Targaryan, Ramsey is dead, Littlefinger is clearly trying to cause conflict between Jon and Sansa. Arya is back in Westeros and killed Walder Fray.

Cersei is now Queen of all Westeros with an Iron Fist. Dany is finally sailing to Westeros with an army to challenge Cersei.

And Bran is also heading back but the White Walkers are on his tail. Winter will come at last.

Who knows what the fuck will happen this season

Samtemdo8:

Also, woulda been nice of you to put spoiler tags in the title so we don't have to tag everything ourselves.

Kolby Jack:

Don't forget

Not seeing the series, but judging from what I've heard it's almost assured Dany and John will eventually team up for an optimistic ending. At worst they'll nearly have a battle, meet each other, f*** each other and then team up.

Also, did I hear correctly that Dany brought tens of thousands of rapists into Westeros?

inu-kun:
Also, did I hear correctly that Dany brought tens of thousands of rapists into Westeros?

Well yeah, she brought an army of Dothraki with her. It's been pretty well established what Dothraki do: murder, pillage and rape. Not that other factions' armies are that much more 'civilized' when push comes to shove.

'Cept the Unsullied maybe, since they lack the proper equipment.

inu-kun:
Also, did I hear correctly that Dany brought tens of thousands of rapists into Westeros?

Otherwise known as "a medieval army", yes.

Chimpzy:
'Cept the Unsullied maybe, since they lack the proper equipment.

I can't remember if it ever came up in the show but in the books it's specifically mentioned that not only do they not rape, they're so disciplined that they also don't burn and pillage unless ordered to.

Zhukov:

Chimpzy:
'Cept the Unsullied maybe, since they lack the proper equipment.

I can't remember if it ever came up in the show but in the books it's specifically mentioned that not only do they not rape, they're so disciplined that they also don't burn and pillage unless ordered to.

They would make sense for such a strict slave system, can't let them get ideas like owning things they've pillaged.

All in all a very boring episode, standard for the first one.

wizzy555:

Zhukov:

Chimpzy:
'Cept the Unsullied maybe, since they lack the proper equipment.

I can't remember if it ever came up in the show but in the books it's specifically mentioned that not only do they not rape, they're so disciplined that they also don't burn and pillage unless ordered to.

They would make sense for such a strict slave system, can't let them get ideas like owning things they've pillaged.

All in all a very boring episode, standard for the first one.

I just hope each episode progresses instead of wasting time with Filler, the Samwell Tarly parts of the Episode was utter filler until the end he made progress.

inu-kun:

Also, did I hear correctly that Dany brought tens of thousands of rapists into Westeros?

They have well-established that rape is common everywhere. When under siege at one point, Cersei tells Sansa how all the women they are with hiding in the castle will all be badly raped if the defense fails.

Brienne almost gets raped when she and Jaime are captured by Bolton until Jaime tricks them (though Brienne fought back despite Jaime telling her to just let it happen so it wont be as bad)

Saelune:

inu-kun:

Also, did I hear correctly that Dany brought tens of thousands of rapists into Westeros?

They have well-established that rape is common everywhere. When under siege at one point, Cersei tells Sansa how all the women they are with hiding in the castle will all be badly raped if the defense fails.

Brienne almost gets raped when she and Jaime are captured by Bolton until Jaime tricks them (though Brienne fought back despite Jaime telling her to just let it happen so it wont be as bad)

True but in the Westerosi system it's frowned upon, in the Dothraki system it's mandatory.

That seemed like a lot of navel gazing. Other than the very beginning, it just seemed like a bunch of establishing of settings and people in locations and stakes, most of which was already previously established. Almost nothing happened. It turns out that I'd been waiting all of this time for next week's episode... Hopefully.

On the next episode:

Jeez already Jon wishes to side with Dany, how fast and far can a Raven fly in Westeros?

wizzy555:

Saelune:

inu-kun:

Also, did I hear correctly that Dany brought tens of thousands of rapists into Westeros?

They have well-established that rape is common everywhere. When under siege at one point, Cersei tells Sansa how all the women they are with hiding in the castle will all be badly raped if the defense fails.

Brienne almost gets raped when she and Jaime are captured by Bolton until Jaime tricks them (though Brienne fought back despite Jaime telling her to just let it happen so it wont be as bad)

True but in the Westerosi system it's frowned upon, in the Dothraki system it's mandatory.

Yeah, Dotharki revel in it, if not having their whole economy based on it. Even if we say they are only "as bad" as otehr armies, they mainly pillage for their economy and can violently splinter once their overlord is dead.

Edit: Also about what Cersei tells Sansa I'd take it with a grain of salt, I doubt Stannis would mishandle Sansa who could be very useful for him.

Hey, I just thought of something. Part of the reason the White Walkers never assaulted the Wall is that there are anti-WW enchantments built into it, right? I believe that was mentioned at one point. I assume they are of similar power to the enchantments that kept the Walkers out of the Three-eyed Raven's home, since the Children of the Forest helped build the wall.

But... the Walkers were able to get into the Three-eyed Raven's home after the Night King marked Bran Stark. I assume Bran still is marked, and now he's just gone back south of the wall. Did... Did Bran just fuck everything up? Again? He's really not a good savior/wizard/messiah thing.

So let me see if I got this right.

Euron aka budget Johnny Depp sails the largest fleet in Westeros to Kings Landing to talk to Cersei and sails it away again with the expressed intention of fucking up her enemies, the biggest of which being Dany.

From the conversation Cersei had with Jaime we know Dany has at this point not yet landed on Dragonstone, which she intends to use as a base for invading the entire continent.

So can anyone explain why, considering these facts, Euron didn't either attack Danys fleet or take Dragonstone for himself before she got there? Since, you know, to get to Kings Landing, you HAVE TO SAIL PAST FUCKING DRAGONSTONE.

Remus:

Turns out the secret behind Valyrian steel is a mountain of dragonglass. Likely every sword the Targaryens had forged was naturally infused with the stuff.

If that's the explanation the show is going with it's pretty retarded. The knowledge of how to make valyrian steel was lost with Valyria. The Targaryens never made any valyrian steel swords, they didn't know how to. Also the mountain of dragonglass is half a world away from the place that made valyrian steel.

DaCosta:

Remus:

Turns out the secret behind Valyrian steel is a mountain of dragonglass. Likely every sword the Targaryens had forged was naturally infused with the stuff.

If that's the explanation the show is going with it's pretty retarded. The knowledge of how to make valyrian steel was lost with Valyria. The Targaryens never made any valyrian steel swords, they didn't know how to. Also the mountain of dragonglass is half a world away from the place that made valyrian steel.

The wording (from the book Samwell was reading) was that the Targaryens used to decorate their weapons with dragonglass, without knowing what the First Men used it for. Adoption of cultural aesthetic, not conscious empowerment of blades. Valyrian steel continues to have nothing to do with dragonglass, unless proven otherwise (though I will note that there's nothing saying that Valyria doesn't also have lots of obsidian, considering that it's also a volcanic area).

inu-kun:

Yeah, Dotharki revel in it, if not having their whole economy based on it. Even if we say they are only "as bad" as otehr armies, they mainly pillage for their economy and can violently splinter once their overlord is dead.

Honestly the whole horde idea is going to fall apart when the Dothraki realise that they can't just show up, kill everyone who resists, steal everything not nailed down, rape everything that is or is not nailed down, take the new slaves a couple hundred miles and sell them on. They are not prepared to fight a war where they cannot despoil or profit from it in their traditional way (more than one Eurasian steppe people met their ends in China when they proved incapable of learning that lesson, which usually happened when they expanded too fast and didn't have a couple generations of rubbing elbows with the Chinese and learning how settled people conduct warfare).

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
So let me see if I got this right.

Euron aka budget Johnny Depp sails the largest fleet in Westeros to Kings Landing to talk to Cersei and sails it away again with the expressed intention of fucking up her enemies, the biggest of which being Dany.

From the conversation Cersei had with Jaime we know Dany has at this point not yet landed on Dragonstone, which she intends to use as a base for invading the entire continent.

So can anyone explain why, considering these facts, Euron didn't either attack Danys fleet or take Dragonstone for himself before she got there? Since, you know, to get to Kings Landing, you HAVE TO SAIL PAST FUCKING DRAGONSTONE.

The show regularly plays fast and loose with location. It's how we got the amazing teleporting Littlefinger in season 2. This probably won't happen in the books, as Euron is nowhere near in the same situation as he is in the show (also his two brothers actually existed. Seriously, Victorion Greyjoy is supposed to be the one sailing east to see Dany.)

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
So let me see if I got this right.

Euron aka budget Johnny Depp sails the largest fleet in Westeros to Kings Landing to talk to Cersei and sails it away again with the expressed intention of fucking up her enemies, the biggest of which being Dany.

From the conversation Cersei had with Jaime we know Dany has at this point not yet landed on Dragonstone, which she intends to use as a base for invading the entire continent.

So can anyone explain why, considering these facts, Euron didn't either attack Danys fleet or take Dragonstone for himself before she got there? Since, you know, to get to Kings Landing, you HAVE TO SAIL PAST FUCKING DRAGONSTONE.

Everything between Cersei and Jamie and Euron and Daenerys confused the piss out of me. So we're just glossing over the fact that Cersei just possibly committed the biggest act of mass murder Westeros has ever seen? And Jamie is just okay with that? Cersei just did the thing that Jamie killed his king for, and he just shrugs it off?

Also, how does everyone know that Tyrion is working for Dany? Was he really just walking abovedeck and people just saw him?

And another also, how does Dany just walk into Dragonstone and be like "lol dis mine now"? Did they ever explain why it's empty?

I felt really confused that episode, I could have used some more explanation

DrownedAmmet:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
So let me see if I got this right.

Euron aka budget Johnny Depp sails the largest fleet in Westeros to Kings Landing to talk to Cersei and sails it away again with the expressed intention of fucking up her enemies, the biggest of which being Dany.

From the conversation Cersei had with Jaime we know Dany has at this point not yet landed on Dragonstone, which she intends to use as a base for invading the entire continent.

So can anyone explain why, considering these facts, Euron didn't either attack Danys fleet or take Dragonstone for himself before she got there? Since, you know, to get to Kings Landing, you HAVE TO SAIL PAST FUCKING DRAGONSTONE.

Everything between Cersei and Jamie and Euron and Daenerys confused the piss out of me. So we're just glossing over the fact that Cersei just possibly committed the biggest act of mass murder Westeros has ever seen? And Jamie is just okay with that? Cersei just did the thing that Jamie killed his king for, and he just shrugs it off?

Also, how does everyone know that Tyrion is working for Dany? Was he really just walking abovedeck and people just saw him?

And another also, how does Dany just walk into Dragonstone and be like "lol dis mine now"? Did they ever explain why it's empty?

I felt really confused that episode, I could have used some more explanation

Well, thing is, most people aren't ok with it. There's a reason the Tyrells are no longer on speaking terms with the Lannisters. The only people left are people directly loyal to the Lannisters. It's not a huge stretch to believe those who are still loyal are still loyal in part because of fear. Don't want to be the next person on the fire. Also, Jaimie has conflicting emotions due to the fact that he's sticking his dick in Cersei. The Mad King had been basically been holding Jaimie as a hostage to keep Tywin and line. He saw the Mad King torture people to death, had to stand outside his room wile he raped his wife, and was finally pushed over the edge when he tried to burn the city to the ground. He hasn't quite been pushed over the edge yet, and had a lot more reason to hate the Mad King. But mark my words, he's being pushed. He's clearly losing faith in Cersei. And it was foretold that she would be killed by a brother.

Dany isn't exactly subtle and he's her Hand of the Queen, word probably would've gotten out about it one way or another.

Stannis abandoned it. And as demonstrated by the Battle of Blackwater, Cersei is a shit tactician.

Samtemdo8:

Isn't the theory that there's an ice dragon. We saw ice trolls.

inu-kun:
Edit: Also about what Cersei tells Sansa I'd take it with a grain of salt, I doubt Stannis would mishandle Sansa who could be very useful for him.

That mostly depends on Stannis being present to guarantee it. If not and a bunch of horny soldiers drunk on victory found them without Stannis knowing of them yet, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't pass up helping themselves to some highborn ladies in the heat of the moment. Stannis might punish the culprits afterwards, but that wouldn't help the victims then and there.

Also, remember Cersei knows about the last time a rebellion took King's Landing and how that went down for the women and children. She feared it enough to poison herself and her children.

Chimpzy:

inu-kun:
Edit: Also about what Cersei tells Sansa I'd take it with a grain of salt, I doubt Stannis would mishandle Sansa who could be very useful for him.

That mostly depends on Stannis being present to guarantee it. If not and a bunch of horny soldiers drunk on victory found them without Stannis knowing of them yet, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't pass up helping themselves to some highborn ladies in the heat of the moment. Stannis might punish the culprits afterwards, but that wouldn't help the victims then and there.

Also, remember Cersei knows about the last time a rebellion took King's Landing and how that went down for the women and children. She feared it enough to poison herself and her children.

I thought about it, but considering how much loot there's in the castle, as well as important documents about the current status. Having it pillaged and burned is extremely incompetent for someone like Stannis as well as it being quite likely barricaded enough to take some time and manpower to conquer.

Cersei isn't very sane at the best of times. And unlike Sansa, her survival depends on Stannis' mood rather than pragmatism.

Edit: Of course the other people in the castle might not be so fortunate.

inu-kun:
Edit: Of course the other people in the castle might not be so fortunate.

Probably not, no. I mean, are the common folk ever in the crapsack world of GoT?

Zhukov:

Chimpzy:
'Cept the Unsullied maybe, since they lack the proper equipment.

I can't remember if it ever came up in the show but in the books it's specifically mentioned that not only do they not rape, they're so disciplined that they also don't burn and pillage unless ordered to.

I thought the Unsullied were eunuchs... You know, the "proper equipment" that they're lacking.

trunkage:

Samtemdo8:

Isn't the theory that there's an ice dragon. We saw ice trolls.

There are no Trolls in this world, you are referring to Giants.

But to be fair, Trolls and Giants are usually intertwined in their portrayals. Giants though tend to look more Human looking.

erttheking:

DrownedAmmet:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
So let me see if I got this right.

Euron aka budget Johnny Depp sails the largest fleet in Westeros to Kings Landing to talk to Cersei and sails it away again with the expressed intention of fucking up her enemies, the biggest of which being Dany.

From the conversation Cersei had with Jaime we know Dany has at this point not yet landed on Dragonstone, which she intends to use as a base for invading the entire continent.

So can anyone explain why, considering these facts, Euron didn't either attack Danys fleet or take Dragonstone for himself before she got there? Since, you know, to get to Kings Landing, you HAVE TO SAIL PAST FUCKING DRAGONSTONE.

Everything between Cersei and Jamie and Euron and Daenerys confused the piss out of me. So we're just glossing over the fact that Cersei just possibly committed the biggest act of mass murder Westeros has ever seen? And Jamie is just okay with that? Cersei just did the thing that Jamie killed his king for, and he just shrugs it off?

Also, how does everyone know that Tyrion is working for Dany? Was he really just walking abovedeck and people just saw him?

And another also, how does Dany just walk into Dragonstone and be like "lol dis mine now"? Did they ever explain why it's empty?

I felt really confused that episode, I could have used some more explanation

Well, thing is, most people aren't ok with it. There's a reason the Tyrells are no longer on speaking terms with the Lannisters. The only people left are people directly loyal to the Lannisters. It's not a huge stretch to believe those who are still loyal are still loyal in part because of fear. Don't want to be the next person on the fire. Also, Jaimie has conflicting emotions due to the fact that he's sticking his dick in Cersei. The Mad King had been basically been holding Jaimie as a hostage to keep Tywin and line. He saw the Mad King torture people to death, had to stand outside his room wile he raped his wife, and was finally pushed over the edge when he tried to burn the city to the ground. He hasn't quite been pushed over the edge yet, and had a lot more reason to hate the Mad King. But mark my words, he's being pushed. He's clearly losing faith in Cersei. And it was foretold that she would be killed by a brother.

Dany isn't exactly subtle and he's her Hand of the Queen, word probably would've gotten out about it one way or another.

Stannis abandoned it. And as demonstrated by the Battle of Blackwater, Cersei is a shit tactician.

I mean what you're saying is probably right, but I'm a simple idiot viewer, I need to be shown that. They could have cut Samwell's puke-track Montage short and included some explanation
Jaime: "Well, our forces at Dragonstone should be able to hold for at least a day or two. "
Cersei:"..."
Jaime: "You never put forces on Dragonstone, did you? "
Cersei: "I was busy!"

Edit: and also, if she is such a shit tactician, how does she know that? Just tell me that her spies or lookouts saw a dwarf moving around on the boat or something! They make it seem like she was watching the show and that's how they know that stuff

DrownedAmmet:
Snip

True. I hate to beat an old drum but "the books did it better." At least, if the books are going this path, it's up in the air right now.

In the books, Stannis left a garrison at both Dragon Stone and Storm's End, 300 at Storm's End and around fifty or so at Dragon Stone. 2,000 men, led by Loras Tyrell, were meant to take it. Cersei intentionally gave command to Loras in the hopes that he would do something stupid and get himself killed. She mostly got her wish. Instead of sieging the palace, he opted to storm it. 1,000 men died, most of them knights who were loyal to Tommen, and Loras was indeed put on death's door, so any forces left there would mainly be Tyrell forces who would have little interest in holding it if the explosion in King's Landing still happens in the books. Hell, the Tyrells were also sieging Storm's End at the time, and when they learned that Margarie had been arrested, they abandoned the siege to head back to King's Landing. So in the books, for the time being, Stannis' forces still hold Storm's End, but not Dragon Stone.

Plus there's also the fact that, in the books, Lannister forces couldn't get to Dragonstone even if they wanted to, as Cersei gave command of the royal navy to a bastard who she had the hots for because he vaguely resembled Rhaegar Targaryen, and when she was arrested by the Faith of the Seven, he decided to take the entire royal navy and go pirating. Yeah in the books, Cersei utterly went off the deep end (Burned the Tower of the Hand to the ground because she thought Tyrion was in the walls) and dug herself a damn deep hole.

erttheking:

DrownedAmmet:
Snip

True. I hate to beat an old drum but "the books did it better." At least, if the books are going this path, it's up in the air right now.

In the books, Stannis left a garrison at both Dragon Stone and Storm's End, 300 at Storm's End and around fifty or so at Dragon Stone. 2,000 men, led by Loras Tyrell, were meant to take it. Cersei intentionally gave command to Loras in the hopes that he would do something stupid and get himself killed. She mostly got her wish. Instead of sieging the palace, he opted to storm it. 1,000 men died, most of them knights who were loyal to Tommen, and Loras was indeed put on death's door, so any forces left there would mainly be Tyrell forces who would have little interest in holding it if the explosion in King's Landing still happens in the books. Hell, the Tyrells were also sieging Storm's End at the time, and when they learned that Margarie had been arrested, they abandoned the siege to head back to King's Landing. So in the books, for the time being, Stannis' forces still hold Storm's End, but not Dragon Stone.

Plus there's also the fact that, in the books, Lannister forces couldn't get to Dragonstone even if they wanted to, as Cersei gave command of the royal navy to a bastard who she had the hots for because he vaguely resembled Rhaegar Targaryen, and when she was arrested by the Faith of the Seven, he decided to take the entire royal navy and go pirating. Yeah in the books, Cersei utterly went off the deep end (Burned the Tower of the Hand to the ground because she thought Tyrion was in the walls) and dug herself a damn deep hole.

Maybe Loras is in death's door, there's a good argument that he or his family faked the injury report to get the Tyrells away from Cersei's shit list.
I really loved reading Cersei's chapters in the last books, it's a great look into a mind of someone that is slowly losing his shit.

erttheking:

DrownedAmmet:
Snip

-snip-

Books have been much better for the past like four seasons, but the show easily could have been less worse if they just explained why stuff happened.
Like excluding the Dragonstone stuff makes sense for the show so they don't have to spend all that money on something that could be resolved a bit simpler, but they should throw us a fricken bone and tell us why
I shouldn't have to rely on "Cersei is an idiot" to fill in plot holes

madwarper:

Zhukov:

Chimpzy:
'Cept the Unsullied maybe, since they lack the proper equipment.

I can't remember if it ever came up in the show but in the books it's specifically mentioned that not only do they not rape, they're so disciplined that they also don't burn and pillage unless ordered to.

I thought the Unsullied were eunuchs... You know, the "proper equipment" that they're lacking.

Umm, yes?

Do I really need to point out that fully functional genitals aren't a prerequisite to commit rape, and certainly not to pillage and burn?

Okay so the first episode has been released and well it's just a theory but i think the prophecy that Cersie will be killed by her younger brother is going to happen via arya stark taking identity of Jamie because even though Jamie is a changed man he still can't take up th courage to kill Cersie himself.
What you guys think about my theory?

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