Been a long time coming...

""That's right. It is only hypocrisy for you to fight for someone else and not yourself.
You only wish for peace, not victory-- such a thing doesn't exist in this world.

Farewell. Drown in your ideals and die."

_____________________________________________________________________________

Shirou doesn't remember much from before the day the inferno ripped through his neighborhood when he was a child. The only memories remaining are the terror of wandering through a hellish landscape, the guilt of being unable to help the dying and dead all around him, and the transcendent relief of being rescued, by the man and self-proclaimed magus Kiritsugu Emiya. Cut to ten years later. While his adoptive father died five years before, Shirou Emiya still lives more-or-less on his own (with a pair of frequent visitors), and pursues his dream of being a superhero in his father's memory. Obviously, of course, that particular dream doesn't have much reasonable outlet; Shirou's father never taught him much magic, his one magical talent has naught but mundane application, and besides, few people he knows are in genuine need of "saving."

Of course, Shirou is unaware of the impending war taking place in Fuyuki city. A war in which seven magi chosen as "Masters" fight over a mysterious artifact dubbed the Holy Grail, reputed to grant the wishes of whoever possesses it. A war where these seven masters summon Servants, heroic spirits of myth and legend, manifested with the Grail's ambient magic and bribed with the opportunity to live again.

Unaware, that is, until one of these spirits attacks him, and he himself accidentally summons a heroic spirit, a young knight calling herself Saber, to rescue him.

Thus Shirou finds himself drawn reluctantly into a conflict beyond his understanding...though his reluctance soon disappears. After all, it's his ideal to rescue people in need, and magi, while secretive, are notoriously amoral about collateral damage. Besides, anything would be worth preventing a disaster like the previous War ten years ago, where a botched summoning of the Grail created a conflagration in a certain part of town...

Goes without saying that there's fine print involved...

My body is made of swords.

Fate/Stay Night

Yes, it's been a while, much longer than I thought it would take me to get to Type-Moon's other famous work. In fact, it's been exactly one year since I reviewed Tsukihime...imagine that.

Now, it's probably obvious to anyone who's seen me speak about it, but a word of warning nonetheless: I consider this game to be nothing short of fantastic. Naturally, I've spoken with people who don't share that opinion, and while I usually don't understand their perspectives, I'm going to have to repeat some of their arguments simply to keep this from becoming a gushfest.

That's what my Verdict is for, after all. Let's get started.

Iron is my blood, and glass is my heart.

Gameplay

Fate/Stay Night is a visual novel. You read (and watch, in a way) through the story and make occasional choices as they pop up. Said choices determine your story path, influence your relationships with other characters, provide exposition or character-building, and in many instances lead to your excruciating death. In fact, the game actually rewards you for putting yourself through those endings. Other than standard visual novel fare, FSN offers a sort of collection sidequest (other than completing the CG image gallery, which is so standard for visual novels I rarely mention it). In order to get 100% completion, the player has to find and read those 40 bad endings, every ten of which unlocks a small chibi skit, the final one unlocking the game-end omake skit.

Of course, other than a few bad endings that take genuine effort to achieve, they're not all that difficult to find. Most of the time, the consequences of your actions are immediate and horrific, and a common criticism is just how counterintuitive some of the correct choices are to progress, especially early in the game. For those, this game includes a post-ending hint corner, much like Tsukihime's "Teach Me, Ciel-sensei" segments. The Tiger Dojo dispenses advice on where you went wrong, how big of an idiot Shirou is for dying, and what you can do to correct it (anything from "reload that last choice and pick the other one" to "stop pissing off Saber, you jackass").

One of the few early deaths resulting from overconfidence.

These skits can be a bit of a mood whiplash and immersion-breaker, admittedly, something they warn you of right off the bat. However, since most of the skits are genuinely funny, add a bit of levity to counteract just how truly nightmarish some of the bad endings are, and form a mini-storyline all of their own (not to mention viewing them is needed for 100% completion), I recommend them anyway.

I have overcome countless battlefields undefeated.

Story

Fate/Stay Night is told from the perspective of Shirou Emiya, a high school student and magus who gets pulled into a shadow war between magi and heroic spirits, whose identities are concealed behind their RPG-esque titles: Saber, Archer, Berserker, Caster, Lancer, Rider, and Assassin.

The overall story is divided into three routes, called "Fate," "Unlimited Blade Works," and "Heaven's Feel," each of which is roughly as long as a standard three-route visual novel, and all of which are varied enough in tone, theme, and character focus that they could probably warrant separate reviews by themselves. Fate serves as the introduction to the story and setting, deals primarily with Saber's backstory, and to an extent focuses more on romance (with Saber as the love interest). Unlimited Blade Works, by contrast, takes the setting already established to focus more on developing most of the rest of the cast (especially Archer and Rin, who also serves as the love interest), and feels more action-oriented. Heaven's Feel finishes by going into the history of the Grail War, focusing on the last remaining undeveloped characters (including Sakura, who becomes the love interest), and generally does what it can to take your expectations and pull the rug from under them, a la psychological horror.

That's not to say these themes are exclusive to certain routes, mind you. While the routes can be considered separately, it's where the setting and characters come together that's the ultimate goal. Not to mention, there's plenty of slice-of-life story scattered throughout. I've seen some argue that there's too much slice-of-life, in fact, though I disagree strongly.

"Shirou, what did we tell you about bringing home strange blond women?"

Other criticisms include writer Kinoko Nasu's famous long-windedness and fondness for exposition causing the story pace to drag, which probably isn't helped when most of the story is told from one person's stream-of-consciousness. Personally, I was too absorbed to ever notice...but then, I was read the Lord of the Rings books as a child for bedtime stories, so I'm probably not the one to ask.

There's also the fact that, all things considered, this game is secretly very linear. Not to the extent of Heart de Roommate, certainly...but unlike Kanon (with no enforced play order) or even Tsukihime (while the Far Side and Kohaku's routes must be unlocked, there's always at least two paths available at a time), Fate/Stay Night enforces its order. You have to play through Fate (which has one True Ending) in order to unlock Unlimited Blade Works (with a True and a Good Ending), and UBW to unlock Heaven's Feel (with a True and a Normal Ending). I can see why this is, since it's the way the narrative makes the most sense, but I've seen others find it off-putting.

Never once retreating, nor once being understood.

Character

Ah, Shirou. He's enough of a controversial character that literally anything I could say about him would be considered blasphemy in some section of the fanbase...so I choose to piss off his detractors. Shirou Emiya is a great protagonist. He starts with clear enough character to be mildly comprehensible (i.e. a multi-talented, if hapless, guy with a martyr complex the size of the sun), who develops to three different extents and into three different levels of pure badass, based primarily on his relation to and justification of his ideals. Admittedly, since the game makes you play the Fate route first (when Shirou's easily at his weakest, development-wise), it's a little hard to see immediately.

...okay, there's really no way I can sum up all the characters, and Shirou's the seriously important one, anyway (of all the characters, only he and Rin never step out of the spotlight during the routes). Nonetheless, the cast is quite colorful. This especially applies to the servant spirits, the identities of most of whom form much of the mystery in the backstory...barring a few, of course. The Lancer spirit is quickly exposed as Cuchulain, Irish mythological badass and wielder of the cursed spear Gae Bulg, and Berserker's master outright brags that she controls the might of Heracles. The others, though, tend to be rather surprising, and oftentimes even draw from lesser-known myths and legends for their backstories.

And, of course, there's Archer, the man so badass that 4chan coined a word to describe him.

Criticisms I've seen...well, not everyone will like every character, of course. Personally, I've gotten into several arguments regarding Sakura in particular (hell, the Heaven's Feel route in general), who remains one of my favorite characters. Then, of course, there are characters who are meant to be hated, like Shinji, the guy I wanted to punch the instant I laid eyes on him, and strangle by late in the game. And I'm not going to get into Zouken, possibly the first character ever that I honestly hated with a passion, and would probably still be my most-hated character ever...had I not later played A Drug That Makes You Dream.

Always alone, intoxicated with victory on the hill of swords.

Technical

Another candid admission: half the reason I originally drew attention to technical detail in my review of Tsukihime was to eventually compare it to this game...but there really is no comparison. Tsukihime was Type-Moon's first game as a doujin circle, funded from what I gather with friends' donations and the kind of money you save by eating nothing but ramen for weeks. Fate/Stay Night was their first game after their incorporation, meaning it actually had a decent budget. And it shows.

Takashi Takeuchi's artwork progressed far from Tsukihime standards, and everything really looks good, background, character detail, etc. One of the things I missed mentioning in that review that I'll pick up here is just how expressive Takeuchi's character sprites can be. I'll make it a retroactive criticism of Kanon that a given character seemed to have maybe up to ten sprites to cover a wide range of emotions and posture. How many sprites does Saber alone have in this game? Over sixty. The differences are often subtle, but that's the point. Hell, one of my favorite moments in the game is when Taiga does a double-take lasting five sprite changes before she realizes what's wrong.

Following that, Fate/Stay Night is also one of the few visual novels I've seen not to rely solely on still images. Sprite changes are slightly more fluid, and the game loves using pseudo-animation to convey action, especially with things like weapon clashing, screen-shaking, background-washing, and every so often having sprites move.

...okay, so demonstrating this with a still image is an exercise in futility.

The soundtrack is very extensive, more befitting a genuine RPG than a standard visual novel, and for the most part packs in some quite memorable pieces. The domestic themes are rather pleasant to listen to, and that's not getting into tense pieces like "All the Evils of the World" and "Wandering Shadow," or quick, fighting pieces like "Colliding Souls" and the signature theme "Emiya." And because I don't know when to stop, I'll also point out the obligatory tearjerker theme ("End of Reminiscence") and one of the better ending themes I've heard in any game ("Changing Seasons").

This game was translated by the gods among men at Mirror Moon, whose translation never gave me problems.

I didn't play the game voiced, though it is an option if you have the Realta Nua disc (the PS2 rerelease). I've heard the voices are quite good, and since they seem to be the same voice actors as in the anime, I can certainly believe it. Frankly, I think Jouji Nakata doing Kotomine is a voice you can orgasm to, if you'll pardon the crudity. Oh, speaking of...

Therefore, there is no meaning to that life.

Ero

*sigh*

Much like Tsukihime, this is where I'll get a lot of disagreement. Unlike Tsukihime, most of Fate/Stay Night's sex scenes have some actual objective quality, which I have honest-to-god expounded upon before (with colossal spoilers, naturally). To start with is the underlying premise of all but one erotic scene in the game (of which there are seven), that sex can transfer mana. I've actually seen criticism of that concept, but since not only is it internally consistent (not just within the scenes, but as a significant part of the backstory, and cross-game to Tsukihime and Kagetsu Tohya), it also has real world inspiration, and therefore struck me as being very far from an "excuse" for including sex.

As for the scenes themselves...mixed quality, like you'd expect from Kinoko Nasu. Heaven's Feel does the best job overall with incorporating them into the story, including making them steadily less disturbing scene by scene. Unlimited Blade Works' only scene...is two virgins, Rin and Shirou, trying to achieve simultaneous orgasm. Not all that hot, not all that justified (it's the one scene that doesn't use the standard plot element, and the only one genuinely feels shoehorned in) but it's as realistically awkward and hilarious as it sounds. And the second scene in Fate is surprisingly tender (I'd go so far as to call it Nasu's best, if that actually meant anything), though again, I'll probably get disagreement on that somewhere.

Unfortunately, the very first sex scene in the game is also probably the worst, since it's the resident example of Nasu's awkward erotic prose and is a threesome besides...again, context.

I'll get Saber ready. Shirou, stand in the corner and think of baseball.

I think someone is working on an ero-replacement patch (like the Realta Nua release has), but for this game, I honestly don't think I'd recommend it. Sex is a vanishingly small percentage of the overall game, but I'm pretty sure RN also removed any references to sex as well, which makes a surprising chunk of the game more nonsensical (Heaven's Feel in particular). I think I'd recommend fast-forwarding if it's that much of a problem.

This body itself may be nothing but a sword.

Verdict

...this was doomed from the start, I imagine. This is one of those games I could literally talk all day about, and for good reason: it's a goddamn masterpiece. The storyline is little short of epic, the cast are all wonderfully characterized, the philosophy and backstory are actually interesting a lot of the time, and this is quite honestly the best-looking visual novel I've yet played.

So do I recommend it? Hell yes. You might not enjoy it as much as I did, but I can probably expect that. And if you do play it, look me up. I'll take most excuses to talk about it...

Either way, I think I've finally earned my Wordsmith Extraordinaire title.

Next Review

I'll probably get Princess Waltz next, unless True Love holds my interest long enough.

.....whats with the white writeing?

Ohhh i see now, FSN for your 10,000th post, nice going ;oP

Nice review as always, i'm with the "this game is the VN graal" group anyways ;)

Dear god man, you finally got this review done. Congratulations on the 10000 and all that.

Very nice review as usual, and the line breaks this time were a pretty nice touch too. I really should get this game again and actually attempt to play through it, but between my incredibly epic Australian download cap and discovery of a way to get a legal copy from Japan (that will cost an arm and a leg), it might take a while.

Congratulations on the 10000 post! And a great review as always. I will chech this out after i finished Kanon.

A very interesting read as always.

Seems it has a very elaborate setting/game world thought out, with beautiful visual and aural art work to back it up (though the lack of voice acting will probably hurt my immersion in it). I'll be sure to check it out when in the mood for a Fantasy epic (assuming I can find a digital distributor).

Congratulations on the new title! You've certainly earned it.

Nearly at the end of the Aeka route in ADTMYD with the flawed (far more so than I expected) protagonist. That stuff is heartrendering...

Yes, it's been a while, much longer than I thought it would take me to get to Type-Moon's other famous work. In fact, it's been exactly one year since I reviewed Tsukihime...imagine that.

GADZOOKS! I AM RIVETED BY THIS STRANGE COINCIDENCE.
Your postcount also appears to have reached 5 digits! This is strangely overwhelming! I must ponder on the implications. You, sir, are definitely a superior forum goer, if i must say.

...okay, bad acting. Thought you deserved some acknowledgement. In short, i have to offer some appreciation for doing these things. You're giving these forums a bit of color by openly talking about something i'd be afraid to even mention in these mainstream-filled discussions. You're one of the reasons i didn't quit on these forums.

Now, on to the fun part: CRITICISM!

Gameplay

...or lack thereof. I'm not sure if any visual novel can be classified as having "gameplay", as for the most part the only "play" factor lies in decisions, which are mostly binary and sometimes one of them ends up getting you smooshed sooner or later. Even the term "visual novel" defines something that's experienced rather than played through, but to each his own, i guess.

Not to mention, there's plenty of slice-of-life story scattered throughout. I've seen some argue that there's too much slice-of-life, in fact, though I disagree strongly.

Some characters (such as Rin's girl-friend and Taiga herself) serve as nothing but comic relief and.... i can't find any term other than "filler". Sure, they establish character personalities and relations. They also drag the story along much more than needed. Apart from that, do we REALLY have to sit through every day's unimportant breakfast habits? This game has long, long periods of literally nothing happening other than the odd:

Ah, Shirou. He's enough of a controversial character that literally anything I could say about him would be considered blasphemy in some section of the fanbase...so I choose to piss off his detractors.

Fine, then i'll piss off his fanbois.
The point about Shirou is that he reacts very strangely to the world around him and holds unrealistic (and idealistic) beliefs. He acts like he was 10 years younger and he didn't go through life's harshness, which is VERY unrealistic because he survived a fire, lived without any parents and managed to maintain a normal life. Those things tend to build some character, and "i want to be a superhero" is not the character they build. Plus, the novel goes out of its way to put him in life-threatening situations, and by this i mean that him clawing his way forward with his guts hanging on the floor is something you'll get used to by the end of the 3rd route. So he gets beat up all the time, which kinda makes him look like a bit of a wimp. That said, his perspectives DO change throughout the routes, but i'll be damned if i got the impression that his personality changed.

There are some very interesting characters however, some of the best being Ilya, Assassin (as he first appears) and Kotomine. Ilya(sviel)'s the very portrait of murderous innocence, Assassin has a very passive (and badass) view on the whole affair and Kotomine just changes roles from unimportant character to badass to bad guy to guy-who-just-sees-the-world-in-a-fucked-up-way. The archetypes are solid and keep you entertained and i better stop saying good things about the game because this is supposed to be criticism. Ahem.

Ero

*sigh*

Yes, sigh. Because the ero just feels like something tacked on to stay faithful to the hentai crowd. The sex scenes are so rare, awkward and far apart that i wonder why they even added them. The reasons for them are also stupid. In order, throughout the routes: sperm is mana, sperm is mana and i'm horny, sperm is magic-conductor paste, i'm a pervert, she's a slut (also, sperm is mana), she's still a slut but i kinda like it (also, sperm is mana) and she's a slut but i'm a pervert (i.e. i love her).
But i guess it's... different, and new. I mean, it's not different nor new in Japan, and it didn't even get an official translation, and... oh wow, i just countered my own argument. The ero actually defeats itself. Nothing more to say, really.

That said, it's my favourite visual novel, but i'll be damned if i'll let it get away with all this.

zatzie zombie num666:
.....whats with the white writeing?

I usually use line breaks to space out my sections and circumvent the forum's auto-formatting. This time, I just decided to throw in an in-joke (it's the literal translation of the Unlimited Blade Works chant), which I initially had as opening quote.

poiumty:

Yes, it's been a while, much longer than I thought it would take me to get to Type-Moon's other famous work. In fact, it's been exactly one year since I reviewed Tsukihime...imagine that.

GADZOOKS! I AM RIVETED BY THIS STRANGE COINCIDENCE.
Your postcount also appears to have reached 5 digits! This is strangely overwhelming! I must ponder on the implications. You, sir, are definitely a superior forum goer, if i must say.

...okay, bad acting. Thought you deserved some acknowledgement. In short, i have to offer some appreciation for doing these things. You're giving these forums a bit of color by openly talking about something i'd be afraid to even mention in these mainstream-filled discussions. You're one of the reasons i didn't quit on these forums.

Come now, surely you've spoken with me enough on the VN usergroup to have noticed my love of being overdramatic! Glad to hear that, though, thanks.

Now, on to the fun part: CRITICISM!

Gameplay

...or lack thereof. I'm not sure if any visual novel can be classified as having "gameplay", as for the most part the only "play" factor lies in decisions, which are mostly binary and sometimes one of them ends up getting you smooshed sooner or later. Even the term "visual novel" defines something that's experienced rather than played through, but to each his own, i guess.

Well, there is a reason why my "Gameplay" sections are much, much shorter in my visual novel reviews than in other genres. Went kind of overboard in Soulbringer, in fact...

Anyway, yeah, I still do consider visual novels to be games, partly because most of them lie on that blurry separation line, and partly because it's just easier to talk about them that way. Far as I'm concerned, an electronic piece of work where you interact and have some control over the in-work world is enough of a game for me to use the label. So far, only Heart de Roommate has seriously challenged that.

Still, I guess it'll be less ambiguous when I finally get to a dating sim.

Not to mention, there's plenty of slice-of-life story scattered throughout. I've seen some argue that there's too much slice-of-life, in fact, though I disagree strongly.

Some characters (such as Rin's girl-friend and Taiga herself) serve as nothing but comic relief and.... i can't find any term other than "filler". Sure, they establish character personalities and relations. They also drag the story along much more than needed. Apart from that, do we REALLY have to sit through every day's unimportant breakfast habits? This game has long, long periods of literally nothing happening other than the odd:

snip

Okay, maybe i overdid it a bit, but i wanted to point out two things: first off, some character's lines are awkwardly elaborate even though he could have just nodded or said "yes" with the same effect, second, nothing important happens. This is just breakfast. The plot just stagnates while you have to read heaps and heaps of stuff like this. I wanted to say 80% initially, but i think even Drow can agree with me when i say stuff like this is at least 50% of the visual novel. Anyway, this point's been covered in the review to a leser extent.

Possibly. I'd probably dispute the term "filler," just because I consider the character interactions to be very worthwhile...but then, I also read really quickly, had no problem with Shirou's stream-of-consciousness, and love shoujo manga, so again, I'm probably not the best judge.

Ah, Shirou. He's enough of a controversial character that literally anything I could say about him would be considered blasphemy in some section of the fanbase...so I choose to piss off his detractors.

Fine, then i'll piss off his fanbois.
The point about Shirou is that he reacts very strangely to the world around him and holds unrealistic (and idealistic) beliefs. He acts like he was 10 years younger and he didn't go through life's harshness, which is VERY unrealistic because he survived a fire, lived without any parents and managed to maintain a normal life. Those things tend to build some character, and "i want to be a superhero" is not the character they build.

Even as a child he was sort of odd. Keep in mind, during the fire, half of his thought is devoted to "oh my god I'm going to die" and half to "I don't want all these people around me to die, either." He is then rescued himself, and his thought process then turns more towards "I wish I could have saved them." Also, the man who rescued him is fresh-outta-Fate/Zero Kiritsugu Emiya, who's had his own problems turn him from a cynical, pragmatic killer to someone who longs for that idealist quality, and who didn't really put forth the effort to quash it in Shirou (who incidentally idolizes Kiritsugu, and admires what he believes is Kiritsugu's work traveling around and saving people). Even when Kiritsugu tries to temper that instinct in Shirou by pointing out that he can't save anyone he can't see, Shirou simply responds that he wants to save the people in front of him. Kiritsugu then muses wistfully that that's a good dream, and dies on the spot.

The result is an utterly selfless man who's totally devoted to rescuing people, partly because of his own tragic past and lingering guilt and partly because of what he feels is the benediction of his father. Shirou knows about life's harshness, as that's what he's fighting against. He's almost never does anything without putting his whole heart into it, and he's gotten used to taking other peoples' burdens onto himself (which, of course, gets him into life-threatening trouble during the Grail War).

...come to think of it, he's like a mix of Negi Springfield and Kamina.

Plus, the novel goes out of its way to put him in life-threatening situations, and by this i mean that him clawing his way forward with his guts hanging on the floor is something you'll get used to by the end of the 3rd route. So he gets beat up all the time, which kinda makes him look like a bit of a wimp. That said, his perspectives DO change throughout the routes, but i'll be damned if i got the impression that his personality changed.

He's a mostly-normal human going up against physical gods. Even when he (or any human) beats one of those gods, it's with an ungodly circumstantial advantage. I'd figure the fact that he even survives any of those encounters would counteract the impression that he's a wimp. Even without that one serious magical advantage, dude's practically a tank.

And I wouldn't think his personality would change at all, except in a bad ending. There's nothing really wrong with his personality, it was his perspective that was lacking. I figured that was why people like Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel most of all, since Shirou either

There are some very interesting characters however, some of the best being Ilya, Assassin (as he first appears) and Kotomine. Ilya(sviel)'s the very portrait of murderous innocence, Assassin has a very passive (and badass) view on the whole affair and Kotomine just changes roles from unimportant character to badass to bad guy to guy-who-just-sees-the-world-in-a-fucked-up-way. The archetypes are solid and keep you entertained and i better stop saying good things about the game because this is supposed to be criticism. Ahem.

Heh. I didn't even bring up how much I loved the villains in this game. And yet I saw fit to mention Shinji and Zouken...what's wrong with me?

snip

...*twitch*

Sakura is not a slut. There's nothing wrong with liking sex; people do it all the time. This has the potential of hitting one of my fanboy berserk buttons, so I'll drop it.

NeutralDrow:

There are some very interesting characters however, some of the best being Ilya, Assassin (as he first appears) and Kotomine. Ilya(sviel)'s the very portrait of murderous innocence, Assassin has a very passive (and badass) view on the whole affair and Kotomine just changes roles from unimportant character to badass to bad guy to guy-who-just-sees-the-world-in-a-fucked-up-way. The archetypes are solid and keep you entertained and i better stop saying good things about the game because this is supposed to be criticism. Ahem.

Heh. I didn't even bring up how much I loved the villains in this game. And yet I saw fit to mention Shinji and Zouken...what's wrong with me?

No mention of the over arrogant bastard that just happens to lead to his death?

...*twitch*

Sakura is not a slut. There's nothing wrong with liking sex; people do it all the time. This has the potential of hitting one of my fanboy berserk buttons, so I'll drop it.

One does wonder when they link "mana restoration" with such things. But I'll guess I'll shut up.

OT: Anyways, nice review, for some reason, I always thought your icon screamed "Type-Moon".

He's a mostly-normal human going up against physical gods. Even when he (or any human) beats one of those gods, it's with an ungodly circumstantial advantage. I'd figure the fact that he even survives any of those encounters would counteract the impression that he's a wimp. Even without that one serious magical advantage, dude's practically a tank.

The problem with this is that it uses the old "feelings = win" cliche, as one of my friends pointed out, in 90% of the situations, grabbing the option that shows more feelings (i.e. "i love saber and i'm not gonna let her die") prevails (i.e. doesn't get you killed) over the more rational one. He then proceeded to show me by always taking the choice that didn't kill him, without any prior knowledge of the game. Which really defines the character as single-minded and rather unconcerned for his own safety (which would classify as "dumb" under normal circumstances).

Sakura is not a slut.

An over-exaggerated nympho, then? She wasn't born that way, true, but fact is, she still wants Shirou's pecker badly and the game can't get enough of emphasizing this. When a girl shows up in your room at night with her skirt... you know what, i'm trying not to remember that scene's details. You know what happens.

TerranReaper:

NeutralDrow:

There are some very interesting characters however, some of the best being Ilya, Assassin (as he first appears) and Kotomine. Ilya(sviel)'s the very portrait of murderous innocence, Assassin has a very passive (and badass) view on the whole affair and Kotomine just changes roles from unimportant character to badass to bad guy to guy-who-just-sees-the-world-in-a-fucked-up-way. The archetypes are solid and keep you entertained and i better stop saying good things about the game because this is supposed to be criticism. Ahem.

Heh. I didn't even bring up how much I loved the villains in this game. And yet I saw fit to mention Shinji and Zouken...what's wrong with me?

No mention of the over arrogant bastard that just happens to lead to his death?

Well...problem is, bringing him up sort of necessitates using his name. He's a great villain, but his identity at the start is technically a secret.

Not that you can really look anything up about the game without learning it, but still.

...*twitch*

Sakura is not a slut. There's nothing wrong with liking sex; people do it all the time. This has the potential of hitting one of my fanboy berserk buttons, so I'll drop it.

One does wonder when they link "mana restoration" with such things. But I'll guess I'll shut up.

Semen is traditionally associated with strength and vitality, especially in mystical traditions like Daoism or Greek religion. The Nasuverse assigns blood the same qualities.

OT: Anyways, nice review, for some reason, I always thought your icon screamed "Type-Moon".

I would certainly hope so. I've yet to have a non-Type Moon avatar here (I started with Ciel, moved on to Ilya, and now I'm on Shiki Ryougi).

poiumty:

He's a mostly-normal human going up against physical gods. Even when he (or any human) beats one of those gods, it's with an ungodly circumstantial advantage. I'd figure the fact that he even survives any of those encounters would counteract the impression that he's a wimp. Even without that one serious magical advantage, dude's practically a tank.

The problem with this is that it uses the old "feelings = win" cliche, as one of my friends pointed out, in 90% of the situations, grabbing the option that shows more feelings (i.e. "i love saber and i'm not gonna let her die") prevails (i.e. doesn't get you killed) over the more rational one. He then proceeded to show me by always taking the choice that didn't kill him, without any prior knowledge of the game. Which really defines the character as single-minded and rather unconcerned for his own safety (which would classify as "dumb" under normal circumstances).

90% of the situations in Fate, certainly. It's more a case of "feelings = survive" rather than win, but I think we've had that argument before.

And of course he's single-minded and has no concern for his own safety. That's a pretty damn big part of his character.

Sakura is not a slut.

An over-exaggerated nympho, then? She wasn't born that way, true, but fact is, she still wants Shirou's pecker badly and the game can't get enough of emphasizing this. When a girl shows up in your room at night with her skirt... you know what, i'm trying not to remember that scene's details. You know what happens.

She's a fifteen/sixteen year-old girl with a years-long crush on a guy she rightly considers an absolute hunk, and her sexual frustration is artificially heightened besides. How do those possibly translate into "nympho?"

Awesome, this is the one ive been waiting for. Excellent review drow espicialy givin the spoiler minefield that fate is.

NeutralDrow:

TerranReaper:

NeutralDrow:

[quote][quote]Sakura is not a slut.

An over-exaggerated nympho, then? She wasn't born that way, true, but fact is, she still wants Shirou's pecker badly and the game can't get enough of emphasizing this. When a girl shows up in your room at night with her skirt... you know what, i'm trying not to remember that scene's details. You know what happens.

She's a fifteen/sixteen year-old girl with a years-long crush on a guy she rightly considers an absolute hunk, and her sexual frustration is artificially heightened besides. How do those possibly translate into "nympho?"

Exactly i belive its the game that calls her a virgin that knows men, her feelings are not entirely in her control.

Legna eno:
Awesome, this is the one ive been waiting for. Excellent review drow espicialy givin the spoiler minefield that fate is.

Thanks! That was a bit of a frustrating field to cross, yeah. Especially not being able to bring up the other, more significant half of the villain cast. Shinji, Caster, and Zouken are fine...but Kotomine, Gilgamesh, and Dark Sakura? A little harder.

Especially since that first is one of my favorite villains ever. >_<

Exactly i belive its the game that calls her a virgin that knows men, her feelings are not entirely in her control.

Thaaaaaatttt...sounds a little spurious. More innocent than she normally gets credit for, sure ("you want me to get on top? Okay, but...this kind of embarrassing."), but otherwise, she seems to fit into an odd system where Nasuverse sex scenes are considerably less awkward when the female participant isn't a virgin (granted, the awkwardness can be replaced by other things...).

NeutralDrow:

Legna eno:
Awesome, this is the one ive been waiting for. Excellent review drow espicialy givin the spoiler minefield that fate is.

Thanks! That was a bit of a frustrating field to cross, yeah. Especially not being able to bring up the other, more significant half of the villain cast. Shinji, Caster, and Zouken are fine...but Kotomine, Gilgamesh, and Dark Sakura? A little harder.

Especially since that first is one of my favorite villains ever. >_<

Exactly i belive its the game that calls her a virgin that knows men, her feelings are not entirely in her control.

Thaaaaaatttt...sounds a little spurious. More innocent than she normally gets credit for, sure ("you want me to get on top? Okay, but...this kind of embarrassing."), but otherwise, she seems to fit into an odd system where Nasuverse sex scenes are considerably less awkward when the female participant isn't a virgin (granted, the awkwardness can be replaced by other things...).

yes kotomine is an awesome in depth character easly my fav as well. and in the english anime he was voiced by Jamieson Price which i found awesome.

True but you could tack it down to surivival instinct as the crest worm is eating her energy and will kill her if it doesnt get a quota, put into hyperdrive because of rider

Still you gotta wonder when spoilers need to die tho. i was in a ff 7 descussion a while back and someone went mental that i didnt spoiler sephiroth killing areis i mean who at this point doesnt know and cares anymore?

Legna eno:
Still you gotta wonder when spoilers need to die tho. i was in a ff 7 descussion a while back and someone went mental that i didnt spoiler sephiroth killing areis i mean who at this point doesnt know and cares anymore?

Yeah, I guess you're right on that. I still don't think I would have named Gil as a villain, just to ensure that some people remain surprised, but...well, TV Tropes already lists "Kotomine is a villain" under the trope You Should Know This Already, so I suppose he could have been fair game.

Zeithri:
Guess which one this is :p

<---

Naturally. Second hottest character in Fate, if you ask me (right behind Sakura and tied with Caster). Hottest if you go by voice (Yuu Asakawa, aka Sakaki-san) and ignore my man-crush on Jouji Nakata.

I must get it because everyone I find keep bashing on the sex in this game <.<
I sincerily doubt it's so bad that everyone seems to make out to be. I've seen pictures from some of the scenes are they look pretty good so ?_?

Oh, the artwork is fine, for the most part. Hell, I even found an uncensoring patch for the CGs.

It's usually the writing that people object to. Kinoko Nasu isn't the best at erotic prose. Still, I can't help but feel some of the objections boil down to people not getting over Tsukihime.

You did miss out that TvTropes have Fate/Stay Night listed under Blatant Lies :P

snip

Actually, I think I've seen that before. I'm a fairly frequent troper, myself, and I usually hang out at Fate/Stay Night and related pages.

As for the blatant lie...well, I guess I could mention it, but frankly, Fate/Stay Night is far outclassed by A Drug That Makes You Dream in that regard.

My main knowledge comes from Fate Unlimited Codes, PSP version

Love that game. Played it when it first came out in Japanese arcades, preordered a PS2 import copy as soon as I got home. Then jumped through many, many hoops to get it play on my damn console. It's also the only game I've written a FAQ for.

...wait, you have the PSP version? Lucky, that means you have the translated copy. And my translation will look even worse.

EDIT: Oh, and thank you for reminding me which BGM track was the boss battle theme of kickass awesomeness.

Zeithri:

NeutralDrow:

Zeithri:
Guess which one this is :p

<---

Naturally. Second hottest character in Fate, if you ask me (right behind Sakura and tied with Caster). Hottest if you go by voice (Yuu Asakawa, aka Sakaki-san) and ignore my man-crush on Jouji Nakata.

Hah :P
When I played through FUC (lol) on PSP with Caster, I was soo suprised to see that Caster was an attractive Elf female. That voice just didn't fit her looks at all, I expected her to be an old hag with that voice! Yet she sorta turned into my favorite character. But Rider's civilian look is the weakness I have for girls IRL ^_^ Not to mention that she is one of the top most attractive ones so, and her name is / isn't helpful with that! D:

The fact that you could play Rider in casual clothes was the first thing I got jealous of about the PSP version. The second was Casual Gil. The third was the translated story.

And yeah, Caster was a bit of a surprise. The robes are nice, but the hood isn't very flattering. Then you see the one CG in Fate/Stay Night where it's off, which is a mild surprise.

Which in turn has nothing on her appearance in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia.

As it goes;
Rider Rides

NeutralDrow:

I must get it because everyone I find keep bashing on the sex in this game <.<
I sincerily doubt it's so bad that everyone seems to make out to be. I've seen pictures from some of the scenes are they look pretty good so ?_?

Oh, the artwork is fine, for the most part. Hell, I even found an uncensoring patch for the CGs.

It's usually the writing that people object to. Kinoko Nasu isn't the best at erotic prose. Still, I can't help but feel some of the objections boil down to people not getting over Tsukihime.

Ah.. But still ;o
I've read soo much bad stuff so I doubt it'll top it.
But we'll see! Where'd you get the uncensoring patch? :3

Then yeah, I doubt you'll have any problems.

The patch is here.

NeutralDrow:

My main knowledge comes from Fate Unlimited Codes, PSP version

Love that game. Played it when it first came out in Japanese arcades, preordered a PS2 import copy as soon as I got home. Then jumped through many, many hoops to get it play on my damn console. It's also the only game I've written a FAQ for.

...wait, you have the PSP version? Lucky, that means you have the translated copy. And my translation will look even worse.

EDIT: Oh, and thank you for reminding me which BGM track was the boss battle theme of kickass awesomeness.

Yoos, much awesomeness and translated awesomeness ;3
It's probably one of the easiest fighters I've played though in terms of button combinations.

..."easiest?" o_O

I've only completed one of the Combo 3 missions so far (Sakura's), and that's only because the timing was slow enough for me to get it right off the bat. A lot of the time, I have trouble finishing even the Combo 2.

NeutralDrow:
Anyway, yeah, I still do consider visual novels to be games, partly because most of them lie on that blurry separation line, and partly because it's just easier to talk about them that way. Far as I'm concerned, an electronic piece of work where you interact and have some control over the in-work world is enough of a game for me to use the label. So far, only Heart de Roommate has seriously challenged that.

Still, I guess it'll be less ambiguous when I finally get to a dating sim.

Having gone back and read that old Heart de Roommate review, I can safely say that it appears to have more gameplay and give you more control over it than Sono Hanabira ni Kuchiduke wo. That and the fact that Sono Hanabira is more like a porno with a storyline than something like Fate/Stay Night, what with them getting it on every five minutes or so of game time.

Always another neat review from you.

I've heard a lot about this game/franchise, but never really ended up getting into it (I've only ever read the 1st volume of the manga). I might try it though, even though Tsukihime shyed me away for reasons that still confuse you.

These Typemoon games always have amazing story telling, and provide me with on of my favourite storylines in anything to date, which was...umm..I can't remember the name of it but whatever Aruceid+Ciel's story was....

Anyways, in conclusion, a wonderful review from you, keep up the good work =D

P.S. ....WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REVIEW MELTY BLOOD ALREADY?! D< ......sigh

Zeithri:
Not really talking about the combo missions though. More the input combinations ?_?
I hear they are different compared to the PS2 version where it's thumb-breakingly difficult or so I've heard ;O

Oh, those. I think I heard they changed those because they're standard on the PS2 controller, but thumb-breakingly difficult on the PSP. And both quail before an arcade setup, but those things are ungodly expensive...

Alpha1089:
Having gone back and read that old Heart de Roommate review, I can safely say that it appears to have more gameplay and give you more control over it than Sono Hanabira ni Kuchiduke wo. That and the fact that Sono Hanabira is more like a porno with a storyline than something like Fate/Stay Night, what with them getting it on every five minutes or so of game time.

So is it more like a "novel-type" visual novel rather than a game-type? Narcissu is like that, too, from what I understand.

Anyway, that game is on my playing list, so I guess I shouldn't expect anything profound beyond moe and lesbians? I hope it's at least good, since I accidentally bought it twice...

Durxom:
Always another neat review from you.

I've heard a lot about this game/franchise, but never really ended up getting into it (I've only ever read the 1st volume of the manga). I might try it though, even though Tsukihime shyed me away for reasons that still confuse you.

That they do. Since you don't seem to have gotten into Fatal/Fake or Fate/Unlimited Codes, though, maybe this could be a greater success.

These Typemoon games always have amazing story telling, and provide me with on of my favourite storylines in anything to date, which was...umm..I can't remember the name of it but whatever Aruceid+Ciel's story was....

I loved this ending T_TPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly90Mi5nc3RhdGljLmNvbS9pbWFnZXM/cT10Ym46U19fdWVnVEJneGdqWE06aHR0cDovL290YWt1aXNtLmFuaW1lYmxvZ2dlci5uZXQvd3AtY29udGVudC91cGxvYWRzLzIwMDYvMTEvNzQuanBnJnQ9MSIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=

Daylight Blue - Ciel's True Ending. One of the genuinely happy ones (and without the whiplash of Moon At Dawn - Arcueid's Good Ending).

Not sure I should pursue that line of thought, since I'm remembering that you missed Distant Reed Warbler - Akiha's Normal Ending (most depressing in the game), Midday Moon - Hisui's True Ending (most incredibly bittersweet ending), and DREAMS OF SUNSHINE - Kohaku's True Ending (most happy ending, to me).

Anyways, in conclusion, a wonderful review from you, keep up the good work =D

P.S. ....WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REVIEW MELTY BLOOD ALREADY?! D< ......sigh

Token assurance of progress. Since I doubt I'll finish Princess Waltz any time soon, it'll be up next.

Zeithri:

NeutralDrow:

Zeithri:
Not really talking about the combo missions though. More the input combinations ?_?
I hear they are different compared to the PS2 version where it's thumb-breakingly difficult or so I've heard ;O

Oh, those. I think I heard they changed those because they're standard on the PS2 controller, but thumb-breakingly difficult on the PSP. And both quail before an arcade setup, but those things are ungodly expensive...

I would disagree a lot on that statement!
I think that Arcade Controlls are the worst ones ever created when it comes to beat em up games >_<

Eh. I find they're a lot easier to control, and all I sacrifice are hotbuttons (I just tend to switch which super I have hotkeyed to R2).

[uote]And you confused me because they are easy in PSP but hard on PS2.. as I've heard ?_?[/quote]

The impression I got was that the controls were made simpler on the PSP because doing the moves with the standard PS2 inputs would have been more difficult. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is supposedly mapping 623 (forward, down, down-forward...dragon punch motion) to 66 (forward, forward) instead.

Zeithri:
Even more confusing! ?_?
I sorta get it but never heard the numberical-versions.

I like the numerical notation just for being intuitive and easier to type. The directions are just noted by where the number is on a standard keyboard number pad.

789
456
123

Admittedly, since it doesn't seem terribly widespread, I don't usually save much time when I have to tell people that 236 is another way of writing quarter-circle forward.

But I think I've derailed this thread enough.
Don't make me get rule63 Gilgamesh pictures for you now :p
Get back on working on your next review or Konata will poke you! o_O

PS. Take your time, just wanted it to sound fierce :p

63?

*checks*

Oh, I thought that was just a subset of 34. Didn't know it had a specific name. And trust me, you'd have trouble shocking me with any! After all...

NeutralDrow:
So is it more like a "novel-type" visual novel rather than a game-type? Narcissu is like that, too, from what I understand.

Anyway, that game is on my playing list, so I guess I shouldn't expect anything profound beyond moe and lesbians? I hope it's at least good, since I accidentally bought it twice...

Yeah, more a novel than an actual game. You have something like 3 choices total during the whole thing and all they really do is determine if you get the epilogue section or not.

And yes, pretty much moe and lesbians throughout the whole thing. I liked it, but it's yuri, so that was a foregone conclusion. It would've taken some pretty horrible artwork or a terrible story for me to not have liked it.

Alpha1089:
And yes, pretty much moe and lesbians throughout the whole thing. I liked it, but it's yuri, so that was a foregone conclusion. It would've taken some pretty horrible artwork or a terrible story for me to not have liked it.

I'll take that as implicit assurance. I'm a sucker for cute schoolgirl romance, myself.

NeutralDrow:

Alpha1089:
And yes, pretty much moe and lesbians throughout the whole thing. I liked it, but it's yuri, so that was a foregone conclusion. It would've taken some pretty horrible artwork or a terrible story for me to not have liked it.

I'll take that as implicit assurance. I'm a sucker for cute schoolgirl romance, myself.

Then you definitely need to kick your gaming into overdrive and start Casual Romance Club ;p (and Snow Sakura, and...)

Mekado:

NeutralDrow:

Alpha1089:
And yes, pretty much moe and lesbians throughout the whole thing. I liked it, but it's yuri, so that was a foregone conclusion. It would've taken some pretty horrible artwork or a terrible story for me to not have liked it.

I'll take that as implicit assurance. I'm a sucker for cute schoolgirl romance, myself.

Then you definitely need to kick your gaming into overdrive and start Casual Romance Club ;p (and Snow Sakura, and...)

...I thought the protagonist was male in both of those.

NeutralDrow:

Mekado:

NeutralDrow:

Alpha1089:
And yes, pretty much moe and lesbians throughout the whole thing. I liked it, but it's yuri, so that was a foregone conclusion. It would've taken some pretty horrible artwork or a terrible story for me to not have liked it.

I'll take that as implicit assurance. I'm a sucker for cute schoolgirl romance, myself.

Then you definitely need to kick your gaming into overdrive and start Casual Romance Club ;p (and Snow Sakura, and...)

...I thought the protagonist was male in both of those.

Absolutely right you are, and absolutely confused i was.

Let's do like the army "don't ask, don't tell" :p

Mekado:
Absolutely right you are, and absolutely confused i was.

Let's do like the army "don't ask, don't tell" :p

Indeed. Sono Hanabira is a yuri VN, which is rare enough as is, but the first game has also received an English translation, which is rarer still.
^{No, I am not bitter at all about the way that yuri sees far less translations than straight and yaoi anime/mange/VNs. What would give you that ridiculous idea?}

Alpha1089:

Mekado:
Absolutely right you are, and absolutely confused i was.

Let's do like the army "don't ask, don't tell" :p

Indeed. Sono Hanabira is a yuri VN, which is rare enough as is, but the first game has also received an English translation, which is rarer still.
^{No, I am not bitter at all about the way that yuri sees far less translations than straight and yaoi anime/mange/VNs. What would give you that ridiculous idea?}

...I'm trying to name any pure yuri VNs besides Sono Hanabira. Even VNDB doesn't help, since it considers the likes of Xchange and Snow Drop to count.

On the other hand, I also can't name any yaoi titles beyond Enzai and Absolute Obedience. I want to, for the sole reason of wanting to play at least one yaoi game, but I'm willing to set aside my curiosity if I can't find a title that doesn't involve rape...

NeutralDrow:
...I'm trying to name any pure yuri VNs besides Sono Hanabira. Even VNDB doesn't help, since it considers the likes of Xchange and Snow Drop to count.

On the other hand, I also can't name any yaoi titles beyond Enzai and Absolute Obedience. I want to, for the sole reason of wanting to play at least one yaoi game, but I'm willing to set aside my curiosity if I can't find a title that doesn't involve rape...

Aoi Shiro is supposedly yuri. I don't know to what extent the yuri content is as I haven't played it and only just recently found out that Solelo made a translation patch for it, but it's listed as yuri on Wikipedia and such.

Also, since I forgot to ask it in my previous comment on here, is the Fate/Stay Night anime any good? I haven't heard that much about it, and from what I heard you say, the Tsukihime anime was trash(though I almost picked it up when I was done in the States, then I remembered that...).

Also..how do you even say Fate/Stay Night?..Is it just Fate Stay Night, or is it something weird like Kingdom Hearts 356/2 Days...which according to the commercial is pronounced Kingdom Hearts 356 Days Over 2....