The Escapist Plays: Civilization V (MOAR PLAYERS PLS)

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Alright, here goes:

-If we got the troops for it (which we probably don't) we should help Geneva. I like to keep city states as happy as possible all the time. We need all the help we can get, and taking out a barbarian camp will

    1. Give us money
    2. Get us influence with Geneva, so we can then buy them up more easily
-Set Grand River to build a work boat.
-Go into Grand River and buy the tile with the pearls, so we can get them immediately.

That's it, right? I didn't miss anything?

Work boat in Grand River it shall be!

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Also, let's buy that tile with the pearls.

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Let's get those ex-roadworkers doing plantations.

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Let's bring our scouts down through Geneva, so they can explore west.

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The goldmine is fixed, so off the workers go to set up a deer-hunting camp.

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(Busy busy busy!)

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BIG culture bonus in Onondaga! Champagne all around!

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I don't we found any iron, though.

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Excellent! We're moving along!

Oh, and because no one objected...

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You owe me, Waltz!

Now just to make sure we all agree...

What do we build next in Onondaga? It seems split between an archer, warrior, or Mohawk warrior.

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Also, we all wanted Writing, right?

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Writing! Give our fine citizens the gift of literature. I'm sure they have many wonderful things to say.

As for what to build, I say barracks. Now that the Greeks have become huggable and are no longer an immediate threat, we can afford to wait a few turns and give our units a lovely boost when we start making them.

Sweet, I now have a serious preferential bias towards that city. You've made me a very happy senator of the Iroquois Empire.

I'm up for writing as well. Meeting as many civs as possible and combining that with 50gold for one way open borders with each of them every 30 turns is diplomacy abuse that and the free tech that the great library gives you for sling-shoting your way through the tech tree is always fantastic.

My votes:
-Build Warrior (then upgrade), or Mohawk warrior if you want to be miserly with your gold.
-Research Writing.

Regarding the new construction project, the sensible choices are either a settler, a scout, or Barracks; the first two for exploring the west in better detail - and expansion before the other nations arrive here first, while the other's a long term investment in a future war. My recommendation: Build a settler. By the time your scouts have the west better mapped out, the timing would be great for finding the ideal spot for a new city.

Discovery-wise, Writing is my first choice with Masonry coming second; we'd have better opportunities to construct additional wonders. Mathematics would be third, while Optics and Horseback Riding duke it out for last.

Doc Gnosis:
My recommendation: Build a settler. By the time your scouts have the west better mapped out, the timing would be great for finding the ideal spot for a new city.

Keep in mind that a settler stops all city growth and we're 8 turns away from a population increase. Filling those 8 turns with either [(1 mohawk warrior/2 warriors/1 barracks)= 6 turns + (1scout)= 2 turns] = 8 turns. That would allow us to reap the benefits of a size 6 city while we queue up a settler for expansion and halt growth; plus the military units would be valuable in keeping it alive till we can place it somewhere.

That military could then be used to pop that ruin/barb camp and after we capitalize off the culture benefit from Geneva could be used as a force for an invasion that shouldn't be even moderately difficult.

8 turns and we can have a sizable military and what comes with that are the rewards of:
-Experience and gold from killing barbarians.
-Bonus from the ancient ruins.
-City-state bonus for finishing Geneva's mission for a ton extra culture over a few turns.
-Prospect for invading Geneva to not only gain another city with a source of incense, but fulfilling Genoa's mission and gaining their food bonus and making a trade route to the north east easier.
-Adequate protection from barbarian pillaging improvements.
-Sending a note to the AI that we have a sizable military so their programing makes them less likely to want to attack us.
-Protection of settler for expansion farther (west-north/south) plus supplemental scouting.

That far outweighs the benefits from having an extra settler 8 turns faster which would need protection anyways and might easily be murdered in the jungle by barbarians without protection. IMO.

Barracks have maintenance too!? Bloody hell, I'll have to start looking up everything in this game.

In that case... if upgrading a Warrior to a Mohawk Warrior will cost 50g or less, do that. Otherwise build Mohawk Warriors.

Mr Thin:
In that case... if upgrading a Warrior to a Mohawk Warrior will cost 50g or less, do that. Otherwise build Mohawk Warriors.

Try more around 145 I think. Though, it might change depending on the difficulty setting. I only made the suggestion because I have a use it or lose it mentality towards gold. It does us no particular use simply sitting there. So we can spend it to rush(buildings/units), upgrade units, or spend it making city-states happy. Otherwise it's sort of just a fancy little number and a vague promise that it may be useful to us in the future.

I like to think of it as Queen Elizabeth taking our useless horses off our hands for a few turns and giving us the opportunity to build a MW at double speed (she gave us 150 gold). :D

Bohemian Waltz:

Mr Thin:
In that case... if upgrading a Warrior to a Mohawk Warrior will cost 50g or less, do that. Otherwise build Mohawk Warriors.

Try more around 145 I think. Though, it might change depending on the difficulty setting. I only made the suggestion because I have a use it or lose it mentality towards gold.

You certainly do, that's almost all of it.

Then again, I do have a tendency to hoard in games; I remember finishing Diablo 2 with my storage chest 3/4 full of various sorted gems that I never sold or used.

I shall stand by my original limit though. I remember kicking myself in Civ IV when emergencies came along and I couldn't pay my way out of them; I don't want that to happen here.

Mr Thin:

Bohemian Waltz:

Mr Thin:
In that case... if upgrading a Warrior to a Mohawk Warrior will cost 50g or less, do that. Otherwise build Mohawk Warriors.

Try more around 145 I think. Though, it might change depending on the difficulty setting. I only made the suggestion because I have a use it or lose it mentality towards gold.

You certainly do, that's almost all of it.

It doesn't help that I'm a warmongering whore who's foaming at bit on the prospect of invading Geneva after we've reaped their rewards. :)

Mr Thin:

Bohemian Waltz:

Mr Thin:
In that case... if upgrading a Warrior to a Mohawk Warrior will cost 50g or less, do that. Otherwise build Mohawk Warriors.

Try more around 145 I think. Though, it might change depending on the difficulty setting. I only made the suggestion because I have a use it or lose it mentality towards gold.

You certainly do, that's almost all of it.

Then again, I do have a tendency to hoard in games; I remember finishing Diablo 2 with my storage chest 3/4 full of various sorted gems that I never sold or used.

I shall stand by my original limit though. I remember kicking myself in Civ IV when emergencies came along and I couldn't pay my way out of them; I don't want that to happen here.

145 isn't really "almost all" of 460. And trust me, you get gold WAAAAAAY faster in Civ V than you ever do in Civ IV. As in, a successful civilization can be pulling in 50+ gold per turn.

lacktheknack:

Mr Thin:

You certainly do, that's almost all of it.

Then again, I do have a tendency to hoard in games; I remember finishing Diablo 2 with my storage chest 3/4 full of various sorted gems that I never sold or used.

I shall stand by my original limit though. I remember kicking myself in Civ IV when emergencies came along and I couldn't pay my way out of them; I don't want that to happen here.

145 isn't really "almost all" of 460. And trust me, you get gold WAAAAAAY faster in Civ V than you ever do in Civ IV. As in, a successful civilization can be pulling in 50+ gold per turn.

Well, yeah, but Waltz suggested we do it with two warriors, not just one, which would be.

But if what you say is true, then I guess I should stop being so tight-fisted with our funding.

I move to support the Warrior Upgrade Program.

Definitely writing for the research.

Bohemian Waltz:
Try more around 145 I think. Though, it might change depending on the difficulty setting. I only made the suggestion because I have a use it or lose it mentality towards gold. It does us no particular use simply sitting there. So we can spend it to rush(buildings/units), upgrade units, or spend it making city-states happy.

That's what I would vote we should save our money for. Which means that we shouldn't go and spend it all on our military. I reckon that we'll be able to protect ourselves and take care of that barbarian camp with relatively few units. Probably an archer and a warrior would do the trick for the camp near Geneva.

This means that my votes for what to build at Onondaga are an archer and then a warrior. For now a barracks would just be deadweight in terms of maintenance, we don't need any more scouts or workers, and a settler would be unnecessary because

    1. They would halt growth in Onondaga
    2. We don't know if there's any good place to settle nearby anyway

Eumersian:

Bohemian Waltz:
Try more around 145 I think. Though, it might change depending on the difficulty setting. I only made the suggestion because I have a use it or lose it mentality towards gold. It does us no particular use simply sitting there. So we can spend it to rush(buildings/units), upgrade units, or spend it making city-states happy.

That's what I would vote we should save our money for. Which means that we shouldn't go and spend it all on our military. I reckon that we'll be able to protect ourselves and take care of that barbarian camp with relatively few units. Probably an archer and a warrior would do the trick for the camp near Geneva.

All things considered; I'd normally agree with you and push for spending gold on city-state bribes. However, the circumstances sway my opinion in that regard.

Time to reach a decision, I'm moving fairly soon here.

I just want to point out one thing quickly to Bohemian Waltz -

Bohemian Waltz:
The issue compounded by the fact that they tweaked his AI to take a stupid amount of advantage of that during the last patch/update of the game. I've almost never seen Greece without at least 2-4 city states as allies or really good friends and they usually happen to be the ones closest to them.

He's also a moderately aggressive civ who's started close to us, which doesn't fair well in terms of probability on how he'll behave.

Except I don't think Alexander has met the two city-states near us.

We would have seen his warrior go south when he was scouting (we didn't), and now he can't get past Osininka.

Alexander's city-state bonus may actually be a non-issue for right now.

lacktheknack:

Except I don't think Alexander has met the two city-states near us.

If you're curious as to whether the Greeks have met Genoa and Geneva, simply try taking one of them over; we'll get a chastising from Alexander if he did meet them. As for the city states themselves, unless you build roads through them and make them friendly, it's better to assimilate them or destroy them outright. We'd garner the other natons' contempt, but we may be locked in a situation where expansion means stepping on the other leaders' toes.

Maybe we shouldn't build a settler, but at some point we'll need to get more cities before some other civ encroaches near the Iroquis western front. We have policies meant for building more cities; we'd do well to utilize them.

lacktheknack:
Except I don't think Alexander has met the two city-states near us.

We would have seen his warrior go south when he was scouting (we didn't), and now he can't get past Osininka.

Alexander's city-state bonus may actually be a non-issue for right now.

Interesting, I'm thinking it would only become an issue in the Medieval era anyways and more of a long term problem.

I played a game where I was at war with someone to my east in the Modern Era and when my influence was low on a city-state I was regularly befriending to my south Alexander on my west front bought them up to become his ally then declared war on me making my game exponentially more difficult.

I'd still prefer we crush Geneva beneath our boot, but my vote stands with simply one warrior so we can combine it with our 1 archer in Osininka to take care of the local barbarian troubles. Upgrade him whenever it becomes necessary.

Doc Gnosis:
or destroy them outright.

You can't raze a city state. Best you can do is assimilate them or befriend them.

Writing is unanimous, then!

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Also, the current production order is Warrior, followed by an Archer. Can do!

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Nothing eventful happens as the warriors train.

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Archers, then!

Also, the Warriors can upgrade for the dirt cheap price of 80 gold - just over HALF what Waltz and I expected. Shall we do it?

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Well, looks like the Incas have overcome their suspicions now that they've seen Alexander suddenly face-heel-turn with us, and now they want to become friends. Not just friends, but PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED friends. Fantastic! This should make one-way open borders a lucrative idea indeed.

Considering the general consensus that we want to be friendly towards other Civs, excuse me while I presume to accept his offer.

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Also, our scouts are out and exploring!

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Oh.

They take a lot of damage from that.

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We're not doing excessively well at the moment.

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Writing researched!

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Our Scouts can get a promotion now from being shot! (?) Which one? Instant healing, +50% defense, or +1 vision range?

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New policy! Republic (+1 prod. all cities, +5% prod. while building buildings), or Representation (Golden Age, -33% added culture cost per policy per new city)? Or something else entirely? (Note that we're about six turns from a natural Golden Age.)

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Which new tech?

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What to build now? (Note that building the Great Library gives you a free Library.)

Choices, choices, choices.

>:(

My current vote:
-Upgrade to Mohawk Warrior and go teach those mean ol' barbarian archers a lesson in the art of diplomacy, pointy stick diplomacy!

1. Upgrade ze warriors!
2. Increase the vision of the scouts. They're scouts! It's what they're there for!
3. Is +1 production a lot in this game? Because in Civ IV, it's bugger all. Also, is there any bonus for aquiring every policy in a tree?
4. Optics! The lighthouse will help our budding coastal city.
5. Free library? I thought the Great Library give you a free technology. Is that right?

Mr Thin, it gives you a free library in addition to a free tech. And I thought you were an expert at the game.

Yeah, I'd go with Great Library as well, not that my opinion means much to anyone.

Mr Thin:
5. Free library? I thought the Great Library give you a free technology. Is that right?

....

3. Is +1 production a lot in this game? Because in Civ IV, it's bugger all. Also, is there any bonus for aquiring every policy in a tree?

leet_x1337:
Mr Thin, it gives you a free library in addition to a free tech. And I thought you were an expert at the game.

Yeah, I'd go with Great Library as well, not that my opinion means much to anyone.

I've never even played it; I'm competent (at least I think I am) at Civ IV and have played the first two.

Your opinion is worth a fortune, if nothing else because opinions in this thread are so rare.

Bohemian Waltz:

Wow. I'm usually finicky about completing things, but those Tradition policies sound so awesome I reckon we should get them instead. I say Aristocracy, as we are about to build a Great Library, if the current votes are any indication. We can always come back to Liberty later.

(My vote most certainly goes to the Great Library now, obviously).

Mr Thin:
Wow. I'm usually a finicky about completing things, but those Tradition policies sound so awesome I reckon we should get them instead. I say Aristocracy, as we are about to build a Great Library, if the current votes are any indication. We can always come back to Liberty later.

Actually the unlock in policy would just be to get Tradition tree opened up as well as the bonus for doing so which is, +3 culture/turn in capital and discount on buying tiles.

As for policies I've flip flopped on my decision since golden ages triggered during a golden age add their full time together. Golden Ages last 10 turns on normal speed and it's effects are +1 production for each tile that produces production & + 1 gold for every tile that produces gold. Since our civilization is in a forest everything we're using pretty much has at least 1 production and our most of our improvements yield gold or we have a forest on a river so we should get great use out of it. On normal speed this means 20 turns of bad-assery. The way civ 5 works is each time you gain a policy the culture needed for the next one goes up; it also increases per city you control. So the -33% to the increase will be invaluable culturally if we're going to expand. (which we definitely should)

I like golden ages when the empire is larger, but I'll take it. The extra production should increase the speed of the great library by 33% or so meaning a great library in 10 turns instead of 15. The extra gold can also be used to do crazy fun things as well.

My votes: (Edited)
-Adopt Representation, Golden ages kick ass. Even if it's not optimal it's the best thing on the table.
-Upgrade scouts vision, and move them south-west as I suspect that north is a peninsula. The flaccid penis of land masses.
-Upgrade Warriors to Mohawk Warriors and send them to kill the Barbarian archers and do a little looking around, there is probably a barb camp somewhere there since the archers need a place to spawn. They're also an immediate threat to our capital as if they get frisky they might come down and start pillaging stuff which would be annoying. Geneva's barb troubles can wait a few turns.
-Build The Great Library.
-Workers make another plantation when able then build trading posts along the river.
-**Research Philosophy- It will finish a few turns ahead of the great library so we can use the GL free tech to get either Civil service or Theology which are expensive in terms of research and slingshots us into the Medieval era, best bang for our buck**
-Sell one way open borders with everyone you know that's not named Alexander for some easy coin. Should be 50 if their friendly and a little less if neutral.
-Change the name of Osininka to Thinville (I'm tired of misspelling it) and change the capitol to Knackopolis/Lacknackstein.

And while we're on the subject of changing names, unless you really don't want to change your capital's name, you could call that 'Knackopolis'.

I find myself agreeing entirely with the Queen fan up there[1]. >_> So yeah, double up those votes, I don't feel like typing them all out again. XD

[1] At least, I assume you're a Queen fan, Waltz. Just a hunch.

Regarding your scouts, I'd recommend the Visual promotion and keep moving south; fortifying when you've created a nice enough gap. With the Defense promotion, it only works if we find ancient ruins that turn them into archers. Instant recovery also strikes me as an attempt at converting the scout to a offensive unit, which is small.

Upgrading the Warriors into Mohawk units would be the best thing to do; we have the money and will get it back over time. But I'd recommend sending the two off in different directions. My reasoning goes thusly: There are barbarian encampments in the east and west; considering that they outclass the archer and warrior guards, it would be an extra couple gold in our coffers.

Speaking of, I'd recommend discovering Mathematics so we can open the door to Currency and by extension set the cities to construct markets. Philosophy and Masonry would also make nice discoveries, but not so much as the benefits of making more money. If we can reap a lot of gold from the Markets - and maybe the National Treasury, we can easily build an army of Mohawk warriors at a moment's notice.

I'd go for the Great Library project, but I don't consider it to be completely successful. A settler would be my second choice for the sake of expansion.

New policy? I'd hold up on beginning a new policy until you enter the medieval era, when we can access Commerce.

RagnorakTres:
I find myself agreeing entirely with the Queen fan up there. >_> So yeah, double up those votes, I don't feel like typing them all out again. XD

The charming fan of the Nordic Apocalypse[1], gave me a superb idea!

I'm now officially starting the Iroquois Republic's first political party:

The Whore-mongering Advocates of Literature & Technology Zionists. Or WALTZ party.

Our national political symbol is an angry smoking transvestite with a laser gun in one hand and a stick of dynamite in the other. Our political colour is Neon purple and our political position is hard centrist. We're based out of Waltzburg.

Our policies include (but are not limited to)

    -Whoring out unnecessary national resources for gold.
    -Whoring out diplomatic agreements for gold.
    -Spending gold on superfluous things.
    -Wiping Geneva off the face of the earth while simultaneously bro-fisting Genoa so hard it starts a cultural revolution.
    -Expanding west-ward like ravenous locusts.
    -Plotting Alexanders downfall.
    -Climbing the tech tree and jumping eras like a crack-addled maniacs.
    -Upgrading every single man woman and child into a Mohawk Warrior.
    -Understanding the meaning of the universe.
[1] At least, I assume you're a fan of the Nordic apocalypse, Rag. Just a hunch.

Doc Gnosis:
Speaking of, I'd recommend discovering Mathematics so we can open the door to Currency and by extension set the cities to construct markets. Philosophy and Masonry would also make nice discoveries, but not so much as the benefits of making more money.

My line of thinking was to slingshot up to theology and then build "The Hagia Sophia" when we get around to it (cost 300 production, but could be mitigated by building a 'longhouse'). It gives us a great person (pick, scientist) then use him to get Education tech for free. Building Libraries with Universities empire wide will make our science stupid good.

Then rushing the "The Porcelain Tower" from education with a great engineer we get from finishing liberty policy tree (the culture made easier by philosophy's temples) gives us another great scientist and we can slingshot into the Renaissance with Banking and start working on the rationalism social policies to give us so much science we go absolutely mad.

Combine Rationalism's 2nd tier social policy of Free Thought which gives +1 science for every trading post (that gets added to the base science yield meaning it gets multiplied by universities) and a 17% increase in science from universities, means we can be walking around with mechanized infantry when everyone else has cannons and knights. (this is too awesome of a prospect to pass up, IMO)

While in between (wonders/ hordes of settlers) we research (mathematics/currency/metal casting/civil service/chivalry) with the unnerving amounts of science we get from libraries and universities. In order to set up for jumping to Banking and get our excellently overpowered longhouse unique building from metal-casting. Should be a snap if you time it correctly.

What do ya think?

Upgrade that warrior for sure. It's pretty cheap, I guess.

Get masonry out of the way in terms of research. It's useful overall, and it's cheap too. And we can utilize that marble up north if we settle there in the near future.

I say build the Great Library, and put Onondaga on a production focus (if possible). If we get the great library, not only will we get the free library in the city, but we will also get the free tech, which we should dump into the most costly tech at the time (at least, that's what I do).

For the policy, I'll say representation. We'll get a ton of gold, production will increase by a bunch, and who doesn't like two golden ages in a row? I certainly do.

I really can't decide between insta-heal and Survivalism 2 on the scout promotion. Whichever we choose, my intent would be to heal up the scouts and charge into those archers like a fat guy to a turkey and bacon sandwich. Scouts should be able to easily take out those archers if they (the scouts) are at full health.

Bohemian Waltz:
I'm now officially starting the Iroquois Empires first political party:

The Whore-mongering Advocates of Literature & Technology Zionists. Or WALTZ party.

Our national political symbol is an angry smoking transvestite with a laser gun in one hand and a stick of dynamite in the other. Our political colour is Neon purple and our political position is hard centrist. We're based out of Waltzburg.

Our policies include (but are not limited to)

    -Whoring out unnecessary national resources for gold.
    -Whoring out diplomatic agreements for gold.
    -Spending gold on superfluous things.
    -Wiping Geneva off the face of the earth while simultaneously bro-fisting Genoa so hard it starts a cultural revolution.
    -Expanding west-ward like ravenous locusts.
    -Plotting Alexanders downfall
    -Climbing the tech tree and jumping eras like a crack-addled maniacs.
    -Upgrading ever single man woman and child into a Mohawk Warrior.
    -Understanding the meaning of the universe.

You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now. I wonder if Doc Gnosis and Eumersian will start their own parties? We seem to be at a bit of an impass right now.

As Supreme Leader of the Glorious Benevolent Nice-Smelling Iroquois Nation, I'm starting the Kings Not Affiliated with Common Knowledge (KNACK) party, the unremovable-from-power party whose policies consist of:
-pretending to know nothing
-getting told what to do by everyone who's not in power.

[/satire]

Also, future cities must be called "Eumersiania" and "Gnosopolis". And "The Ragnorak".

lacktheknack:
Also, future cities must be called "Eumersiania" and "Gnosopolis". And "The Ragnorak".

Don't forget "Colony-1337".

Bohemian Waltz:

What do ya think?

At this point, it goes without saying you're pushing for a Space Race victory?

I like your plan, I'd prefer keeping a tidy wallet in case Greece or another nation decides to go to war with the Iroquois, especially if your party wants to do away with Alexander. As for your construction proposals, we shouldn't fall into the trap of constantly building wonders; I'm one for pursuing science, but Onondaga has the highest production rate out of the other cities and it could be better used to settle the west or amass a large army before someone else does.

All things considered, I get the impression we're trying to accomplish two different plans at once; either planning to eventually go to war with Greece and expand, or maintaining a small empire and avoid any contact with other nations - so we don't get forced to go to war with other civs. If we're planning to do both, then we'll need plenty of coin so we can recieve the best of both worlds. Barring the wonders, why wait when you can just pay for it?

Doc Gnosis:

Bohemian Waltz:

What do ya think?

At this point, it goes without saying you're pushing for a Space Race victory?

I like your plan, I'd prefer keeping a tidy wallet in case Greece or another nation decides to go to war with the Iroquois, especially if your party wants to do away with Alexander. As for your construction proposals, we shouldn't fall into the trap of constantly building wonders; I'm one for pursuing science, but Onondaga has the highest production rate out of the other cities and it could be better used to settle the west or amass a large army before someone else does.

All things considered, I get the impression we're trying to accomplish two different plans at once; either planning to eventually go to war with Greece and expand, or maintaining a small empire and avoid any contact with other nations - so we don't get forced to go to war with other civs. If we're planning to do both, then we'll need plenty of coin so we can recieve the best of both worlds. Barring the wonders, why wait when you can just pay for it?

WORKING TOGETHER, PERSPECTIVE AND COMPROMISE? WHAT IS THIS!?

Currently, the only options we've got for amassing gold are already suggested by Waltz - Representation for a double-Golden Age, trading posts everywhere, and open-border trades with other nations. Would you agree to doing those things?

*facepalms*.... There goes my getting a city named after me....

I agree, but I get a nagging feeling in my gut that another civ may intervene; playing the came had made me increasingly paranoid and had the idea of focusing on an army pounded into my brain.

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