I feel like Trump is purposely escalating with NK...

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT
 

...just so he can have a war. Or at the very least, not taking or looking at options that don't lead to conflict.

Because while Trump isn't a truly intelligent man, he IS smart enough to realize going to war would give him the nigh-unlimited power he desires almost as equally as it gave Obama, Bush Jr., Bush Sr. etc. The ability to silence and control media, power to fire and dismiss anyone he wants and get rid of that pesky investigation which is snowballing into something bad for his campaign and family.

Power to attack, insult and degrade his critics, especially the left for being un-American and possibly treasonous. Rile up and make his base feel awesome because of how much Republicans have shown they love war and conflict the last several decades, especially certain members of Congress.

And speaking of Congress, what better way to get them to fall in line than a war that not only a few of think should've happened a while ago, but many of them would profit off of/not want to oppose for fear of looking weak to their base.

Or its just two blow-hards waving dicks at eachother...cept those dicks might destroy the Earth...

These two idiots are all talk.

Here's the reality of it. If North Korea truly wanted to hit the US with a nuke, they could have done that years ago. They didn't need a missile, there's no technological barrier stopping them from hiding a warhead on a fishing boat and sailing it into harbor at NYC or Los Angeles. Not only would it be a bigger explosion, but also way harder to trace. The missile is almost entirely a status symbol for NK that they think puts them on the level with China, Russia, and the US.

Same goes for Donald Trump, by the way. He's just a common bully who's gotten really lucky in his life and I truly don't think that he actually has it in him to push the big red button.

EDIT: although apparently the Evangelical arm of the White House is okay with it. It must be really easy to talk about starting a catastrophic war when you think you're just going to go to heaven when you die. Fucking hell, I just want to go live in Antarctica. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/08/08/god-has-given-trump-authority-to-take-out-kim-jong-un-evangelical-adviser-says/?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.07fc615e17c6

I doubt Obama would be easy going on NK either, when Kim is himself threatening the country(ies), something other countries are painfully aware of too.

Trump must tread lightly still, but China applying sanctions is excellent news for a worldwide push against that terrible country.

Well, he's certainly not doing anything to make it better.

I don't know if he's mad enough to go to war, though. Knowing Trump, he'll probably tweet that he's going to war and then accidentally start a war and then after a few weeks have passed and several hundred million Asians have died, he'll tweet that he was anti-war the whole time.

Forget saving our own skins.

I really don't get this very blase response by the rest of the world.

A country with a history of not listening to anyone gets nuclear weapons = "We're going to sanction you until you listen".

In response, NK states they will never stop developing Nuclear weapons. So when is it enough? When do we stop all the posturing and stepping aside to which we as a world saying anyone with this capability who throws out threats like this must be removed from power? Why are so many "enlightened and civilized" cultures stepping back to allow America to hang itself with this rope. This isn't oil, this isn't land disputes, we're talking Nuclear War. The one thing we all universally agree is bad, and all we get is sanctions?

Not to mention the idiot on hand.

I hope the promised Tax Cuts that you never received was worth it, Republicans.

So we're staring down the barrel of nuclear brinkmanship and one of the guys in charge... is a TV reality show host.

Fuckin' oath.

Americans don't deserve democracy.

Zhukov:
So we're staring down the barrel of nuclear brinkmanship and one of the guys in charge... is a TV reality show host.

Fuckin' oath.

Americans don't deserve democracy.

Do you want to make it racial as well, Zhukov? Overwhemlingly, White people were swayed into voting for Trump. Do white people deserve Democracy? What about the men? Men were a large percentage of his votes as well. Anything with an XY as well?

Everyone's frustrated. I get that. People are fighting him every day. As much as I don't like the Electoral College, 95% of this land mass is considered rural. And if it wasn't for that representation, those people who live there would be steam rolled.

Hate brought him in. More hate will not make it better.

ObsidianJones:
Do you want to make it racial as well, Zhukov?

If you want, I wouldn't mind. There's some pretty solid arguments to be made there.

Regardless, I'm joking here. Mostly.

Sad thing is, no joke I make is going to be funnier than a deadpan statement of the facts. That's the kind of situation we have here. If it goes south then history students will scratch their heads and incredulously ask their teachers just what the fuck we were thinking. In 50 years a movie will be made and people who weren't alive at the time will think it's exaggerating. I will tell my grandkids that no, really, it was all just that stupid and they'll think I'm joking.

For we are living in times of blackest comedy.

If Trump is trying to start a war to grab even more power, he's gonna have to pick a better target then North Korea, which would only be able to put up a fight for 60 days at most (according to the Pentagon). Yes, their Nuclear capabilities would probably destroy Seoul for years, but they wouldn't have any hope of striking any actual US Territory currently (and I doubt they could hit Guam either).

Trump could not suspend Habeus Corpus or just start arresting individuals for no reason simply from going to war with such a weak state. Even in the event of a war, the President can not remove powers from Congress, especially powers invested in Congress by the Constitution, or remove powers from the Judiciary, or alter the Constitution to fit his needs simply because of a war. Any attempt to reinstate the Draft would have to be created by Congress, which they would probably not do. With Congress firmly behind Mueller, Trump couldn't kick him out, even in the event of a war, without facing Impeachment.

On top of that, with America being so anti-war from the Bush Years, a war with North Korea, even a short, quick one, would make Trump even more unpopular. Especially with his Alt-Right Base, who went bonkers when Trump bombed Syria once.

This, I'm pretty sure, is mostly just bluster from Trump, and more idiocy from him as well. He's desperately trying to find something to be strong on, since he's been both a weak and ineffective President. But if he escalates tensions with North Korea into all out war, it will only backfire on him.

Zhukov:
So we're staring down the barrel of nuclear brinkmanship and one of the guys in charge... is a TV reality show host.

Fuckin' oath.

Americans don't deserve democracy.

If we had a democracy, we would not have a President Trump.

ObsidianJones:

Zhukov:
So we're staring down the barrel of nuclear brinkmanship and one of the guys in charge... is a TV reality show host.

Fuckin' oath.

Americans don't deserve democracy.

Do you want to make it racial as well, Zhukov? Overwhemlingly, White people were swayed into voting for Trump. Do white people deserve Democracy? What about the men? Men were a large percentage of his votes as well. Anything with an XY as well?

Everyone's frustrated. I get that. People are fighting him every day. As much as I don't like the Electoral College, 95% of this land mass is considered rural. And if it wasn't for that representation, those people who live there would be steam rolled.

Hate brought him in. More hate will not make it better.

People > Corn. The President is supposed to represent and support the American -People-. Most people live in or near urban areas. Urban Areas > Rural areas.

And I mean, isnt the whole point of state rights and their self-governing so that stuff important to say, a coastal state doesnt impede a landlocked farming state?

The needs of urban and rural should not be so dependent on the leader of the whole country. If we are going to have State governments that are practically their own country, then it should be on them to deal with urban/rural issues anyways.

And rural folk =/= poor. Id be willing to bet urban poor are far more numerous than rural poor. I will be bold enough to suggest possibly in New York alone.

What if- now hear me out... we flatten North Korea to preserve the lives of everyone else. Y'know before they actually go and start killing everyone anyway.

ObsidianJones:
I hope the promised Tax Cuts that you never received was worth it, Republicans.

To be fair, I voted for Trump over gun rights, not over tax cuts. Although I guess your point still stands. Although I contend we'll need our guns for when this world turns Mad Max

A NK war will eventually start regardless if people like it or not. Whether it comes to a civil war (which will be far worse than Syria) or actual war with SK due to either slights or economic difficultis. Better it be before they get nukes and ability to launch them at the USA or other countries.

Congress just recently put new sanctions on North Korea. Of course tensions are higher now.

inu-kun:
A NK war will eventually start regardless if people like it or not. Whether it comes to a civil war (which will be far worse than Syria) or actual war with SK due to either slights or economic difficultis. Better it be before they get nukes and ability to launch them at the USA or other countries.

I think it might be better to offer amnesty to the leadership and a generous bribe to step out of the way, especially if the alternative is war. Even apart from that, however, no-- neither war nor regime change is inevitable. The example of the peaceful end of the Cold War exists. 'Course, people today seem to want to reheat that mess too, but that's another story.

God, if it comes to a war with North Korea I hope Merkel won't be stupid enough to support America send the Bundeswehr there.

... no, I'm pretty sure Merkel will totally be stupid enough to support America and send the Bundeswehr there. Had she been in charge, we would have been in Iraq too.

Ah, fuck it. My only hope is that this may spark an anti-war movement in America like Vietnam did. And to an extent Iraq too. And that Trump wont be able to use it as a means to use violence against any political opposition. Which is pretty optimistic of me, I'm aware. Americans really did open the gates to hell when they elected him. Now all that's left is trying to fend of whatever's coming out of it, lest we be overrun. You know, I've been toying with the idea of moving to Iceland once I actually have a chance to get a job there, on the chance that I might be able to weather that storm there. Hope it won't be too late by then.

Anti-American Eagle:
What if- now hear me out... we flatten North Korea to preserve the lives of everyone else. Y'know before they actually go and start killing everyone anyway.

Honestly...I do think someone needs to actually stop North Korea, violently if need be. I just dont trust Trump to do it.

I mean, -maybe- they are full of hot air, and I hope so, but even so, I dont think we should wait for them to no longer be just blowing smoke and start blowing...everything up.

Seanchaidh:
Congress just recently put new sanctions on North Korea. Of course tensions are higher now.

inu-kun:
A NK war will eventually start regardless if people like it or not. Whether it comes to a civil war (which will be far worse than Syria) or actual war with SK due to either slights or economic difficultis. Better it be before they get nukes and ability to launch them at the USA or other countries.

I think it might be better to offer amnesty to the leadership and a generous bribe to step out of the way, especially if the alternative is war. Even apart from that, however, no-- neither war nor regime change is inevitable. The example of the peaceful end of the Cold War exists. 'Course, people today seem to want to reheat that mess too, but that's another story.

It might have worked if the people in the head of NK was not a megalomaniac man child. So I doubt he'd accept and even if he and the top brass left there would be an uncertain power vacuum. And there's the danger of chemical/biological weapons leaking.

Paragon Fury:
The ability to silence and control media, power to fire and dismiss anyone he wants and get rid of that pesky investigation which is snowballing into something bad for his campaign and family.

Yes, because historically, being at war has made all Presidents immune to all criticism, right?

And if a war was all it needed, does Syria not count?

inu-kun:

It might have worked if the people in the head of NK was not a megalomaniac man child. So I doubt he'd accept and even if he and the top brass left there would be an uncertain power vacuum. And there's the danger of chemical/biological weapons leaking.

You do understand what war means, right? I thought they had conscription in Israel, didn't they teach you things like geostrategy, wartime logistics, and war(fare) ecology? What war actually looks like?

For starters, South Korea is going to largely be devastated ... and the border territory will disappear. And you're looking at an economic and environmental refugee crisis that will make the Syrian civil conflict look like a storm in a teacup. You're potentially talking generational revenge attacks, nuclear materials distribution to terror networks, targeting Japanese cities, massive influx of North Koreans into China...

The humanitarian crisis will be on the scale of WW2 all without the pre-war industrialization, and at best you're looking at a limited exchange event that may irrevocably change the face of the nearby environment and have hemispheric disturbances to boot.

You don't simply win a nuclear war. It also sets a dangerous fucking precedent for China, as war with North Korea, and occupation on China's doorstep, will be what will pushthem over the edge to change their 'No First Use' policy, to something akin to Cocked Pistol level of fucking frightening. And as fucking garbage as Kennedy was at international diplomacy, Trump is worse.

I also don't see any good Nixons in the Republican party at the moment to step up to the plate and talk the world down from a large helping of Strontium-90. And make no mistake, North Korea might not be able to reach the U.S., China can and will given they'll have no options than to get their stuff off the ground due to having very little second strike capability to threaten with.

China's no first use policy was a sign of good will. The idea they have no sufficient second strike capability (at the moment), but will also refuse to release their birds without overwhelming nuclear aggression. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth, jeopardising that. Basically you're exchanging one rogue, enemy nation.... for one, enemy superpower to be, that holds a shitload of U.S. treasury bills, and can flatline the world economy and bomb it back to the stone age. Except for South America, apparently. Basically the only place you're definitely "safe" ....

Also, keep in mind that NK signed their own NFU policy pledge and offered it to the UN last year. No one recognized it. As 'rogue' as the nation is, there's always room for diplomacy and this is no different.

Both leaders have child brains and are functionally delusional. We should seal them up into a little room and just never look back.

i doubt he's doing it on purpose. that's not how the Trump mind "works".

Gotta love all the arm chair generals that crawl out of the woodwork and start screaming that we must stop North Korea at all costs the second the American media whips up another frenzy over that blowhard in Pyeongyang and the almost bigger one in Washington exchanging a few tough guy platitudes.

Meanwhile, in Seoul:

https://twitter.com/AskAKorean/status/895082582475407361

This isn't anything we haven't seen before. This is the same thread that cropped up something like three months ago. The same thread as four years back when Jong-Un was being noisy, the Western media ate it up, everyone swore up and down that it was the end times and I made the same comments then as I am now. In short: calm the fuck down already.

renegade7:

EDIT: although apparently the Evangelical arm of the White House is okay with it. It must be really easy to talk about starting a catastrophic war when you think you're just going to go to heaven when you die. Fucking hell, I just want to go live in Antarctica. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/08/08/god-has-given-trump-authority-to-take-out-kim-jong-un-evangelical-adviser-says/?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.07fc615e17c6

Or, as I saw in Twitter: "Radical Cleric calls for holy war"

But hey, it's not like the closest times we ever came to nuclear annihilation during the Cold War were when one or both sides were trying nuclear brinkmanship as a fun new negotiating tactic.

CM156:

ObsidianJones:
I hope the promised Tax Cuts that you never received was worth it, Republicans.

To be fair, I voted for Trump over gun rights, not over tax cuts. Although I guess your point still stands. Although I contend we'll need our guns for when this world turns Mad Max

Serious question: do you think you wouldn't have been able to own guns if Hillary had won? As far as I know democrats have never pushed for gun bans but just more background checks to make it less easy to buy a gun than a box of aspirin.

And I think that if the world turns Mad Max you'll regret that so many people own guns they will now be pointing at you :/

If stopping North Korea were easy, we would have done so a long time ago. A strike against North Korea means loss of life in Seoul and possibly parts of Japan on an unprecedented level.

I'm hoping that right now China is on the phone telling NK that if they strike at Guam, they're washing their hands of them. Otherwise... We're looking at a catastrophe that's going to dominate the world stage for decades.

North Korea isn't a threat to America

It's a threat to south Korea.

Regardless of what we do those people are fuuuuuuuuckkkkkeeeedddddd

Cause Kim jung doo is gonna take out as many of them as possible before he falls

Addendum_Forthcoming:

inu-kun:

It might have worked if the people in the head of NK was not a megalomaniac man child. So I doubt he'd accept and even if he and the top brass left there would be an uncertain power vacuum. And there's the danger of chemical/biological weapons leaking.

You do understand what war means, right? I thought they had conscription in Israel, didn't they teach you things like geostrategy, wartime logistics, and war(fare) ecology? What war actually looks like?

For starters, South Korea is going to largely be devastated ... and the border territory will disappear. And you're looking at an economic and environmental refugee crisis that will make the Syrian civil conflict look like a storm in a teacup. You're potentially talking generational revenge attacks, nuclear materials distribution to terror networks, targeting Japanese cities, massive influx of North Koreans into China...

The humanitarian crisis will be on the scale of WW2 all without the pre-war industrialization, and at best you're looking at a limited exchange event that may irrevocably change the face of the nearby environment and have hemispheric disturbances to boot.

You don't simply win a nuclear war. It also sets a dangerous fucking precedent for China, as war with North Korea, and occupation on China's doorstep, will be what will pushthem over the edge to change their 'No First Use' policy, to something akin to Cocked Pistol level of fucking frightening. And as fucking garbage as Kennedy was at international diplomacy, Trump is worse.

I also don't see any good Nixons in the Republican party at the moment to step up to the plate and talk the world down from a large helping of Strontium-90. And make no mistake, North Korea might not be able to reach the U.S., China can and will given they'll have no options than to get their stuff off the ground due to having very little second strike capability to threaten with.

China's no first use policy was a sign of good will. The idea they have no sufficient second strike capability (at the moment), but will also refuse to release their birds without overwhelming nuclear aggression. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth, jeopardising that. Basically you're exchanging one rogue, enemy nation.... for one, enemy superpower to be, that holds a shitload of U.S. treasury bills, and can flatline the world economy and bomb it back to the stone age. Except for South America, apparently. Basically the only place you're definitely "safe" ....

Also, keep in mind that NK signed their own NFU policy pledge and offered it to the UN last year. No one recognized it. As 'rogue' as the nation is, there's always room for diplomacy and this is no different.

And South Korea will be even more devestated along with Japan and parts of the USA if nothing is done about it. There's no reasonably probable way the situation is going to get better:
Do nothing and South Korea will continue to stockpile weapons until it eventually implodes or explodes. The only hope is having a saner person assuming control there which can take far too long considering the young age of the current dictator and highly risks a civil war which will end just as bad.
Using the carrot will have NK using it to justify their actions and continue regardless.
Using the stick (like Trump does) will likely not work and be used to justify their actions and continue regardless.

So either wait for the conflict to become fully nuclear with maybe the hopes of military developement to protect S. Korea from nukes and biological weapons or have the first strike advantage while the nuclear ability of NK is still uncertain.

As for China, they're extremely likely to abandon N. Korea in that event. They have no control over the country that is for all intents and purposes a rabid dog that protecting in a full war will cost more than it will ever give them. They'll likely be happy being given parts of NK post confllict and trying to increase their influence on the wounded SK.

Chewster:
This isn't anything we haven't seen before. This is the same thread that cropped up something like three months ago. The same thread as four years back when Jong-Un was being noisy, the Western media ate it up, everyone swore up and down that it was the end times and I made the same comments then as I am now. In short: calm the fuck down already.

From NK, sure? There were better leaders in Washington in the past, though, and it'd hardly be surprising if Trump wanted a war.

Where before Trump the diplomacy was handled much better leading to decent diplomatic relations between otherwise hostile nations. Congress even recently tried to stop Trump from increasing worldwide tensions by imposing new sanctions on NK, Iran and Russia.

Not saying Trump isn't in dangerous waters here but that isn't just Trump's fault. I do agree that the US should try not to antagonise NK. Same thing with Iran or Russia for that matter. As bad as North Korea is, and it is very bad, a war would be devastating to the entirety of Korea and risk escalating tensions between the US and China.

Two egomaniacal nation leaders with access to nuclear weapons are playing the game of chicken with each other. What can possibly go wrong? At least Trump still has to work around the Congress; but what about North Korea? Nothing stops them from nuking US's allies (like Japan)

Saelune:

Zhukov:
So we're staring down the barrel of nuclear brinkmanship and one of the guys in charge... is a TV reality show host.

Fuckin' oath.

Americans don't deserve democracy.

If we had a democracy, we would not have a President Trump.

To be fair, is the US was a democracy and not a republic, there would never have been a union of states, since the very institution of the electoral colledge was created in part to bribe the major slave states into becoming part of the federation. As redundant as it is, it would raise the problem of only a handful of major metropolitan areas deciding the course of where the country is heading.

But yeah, if the US were a democracy we might have been have sitting out president Romney's second term about right now.

Well, I guess if you have absolutely no practical foreign policy tools at your disposal to stop a country doing what you don't want it to do, you may as well sound tough to your citizens.

Level 7 Dragon:

Saelune:

Zhukov:
So we're staring down the barrel of nuclear brinkmanship and one of the guys in charge... is a TV reality show host.

Fuckin' oath.

Americans don't deserve democracy.

If we had a democracy, we would not have a President Trump.

To be fair, is the US was a democracy and not a republic, there would never have been a union of states, since the very institution of the electoral colledge was created in part to bribe the major slave states into becoming part of the federation. As redundant as it is, it would raise the problem of only a handful of major metropolitan areas deciding the course of where the country is heading.

But yeah, if the US were a democracy we might have been have sitting out president Romney's second term about right now.

Im not too fond of the excessive power of state rights. I mean, sometimes it works out for me, I wont pretend it doesnt, especially as a New Yorker, but its stupid that gay marriage was ever only legal in -some- parts of the US.

The Electoral College may have been a positive thing when we had territories and the future of states was less certain, but now the US spreads from "sea to shining sea" and the EC is outdated. Just because something was, doesnt mean it should still be. The US was founded on opposing old outdated and laws and ideas. I mean, seriously, "lack of representation" is why the US exists. Its really rather hypocritical to keep the EC as it stands.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here