I feel like Trump is purposely escalating with NK...

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Chewster:

Epyc Wynn:
That excuse isn't going to hold up when North Korea has an arsenal able to genuinely destroy other countries. If a country says "I want to annihilate you" then you are supposed to assume "they want to annihilate me." To assume otherwise would be stupid.

North Korea had the ability to destroy the South through much of the 60s and 70s when their situations were essentially reversed compared to now. The North was propped up (financially and militarily) by Russia and China and the South was dirt poor, had almost zero infrastructure since the majority of it was bombed into oblivion during the war, was run by dictators and was barely defended. They could have invaded at any time for almost three decades and quite possibly won. America was even thinking of pulling out completely at one point. This rhetoric about annihilating their enemies has been going on just as long as well.

Even if North Korea gets nukes, so what? I can't count the number of times I've said this but while Jong-un might be a megalomaniac, he's not a complete idiot and surely would know that in full on war, he'd be on the losing side inevitably. Having nuclear missiles makes him look big in front of his minions and the general population of the DPRK and means he remains on the throne indefinitely. I don't think the DPRK being a nuclear power is ideal but stop acting like the second he gets one working, they're all going to be flying toward California is ridiculous fear mongering. Besides, other counties hostile to the West have had them for decades and we've managed to keep it together.

If followed through on, all this tough guy bluster will lead to millions of civilian deaths and possibly the worst refugee crisis humanity has ever seen. The North would fall eventually but at an utterly unfathomable cost to the world, but mostly to South Korea.

You gonna be there on the front lines to help clean it up?

Why do you think he is not a complete idiot? Did you not hear the shat he said about why his father should have gone through with his threats against the US? He has killed everyone close to him, he killed his own brother. He is a nut case. He has given us no reason at all to think he would not carry out his threats. He is not his father.

Lil devils x:

Why do you think he is not a complete idiot? Did you not hear the shat he said about why his father should have gone through with his threats against the US? He has killed everyone close to him, he killed his own brother. He is a nut case. He has given us no reason at all to think he would not carry out his threats. He is not his father.

And yet, all the Western media rhetoric surrounding North Korea was the almost same during the Jong-Il days. The media said the same sorts of things. "They could attack at any time! The DPRK is crazy! We're all in trouble for real real this time!"

Look, what does Jong-Un care about more than anything in this world? Maintaining power. How does he do that? 1) Looking strong in front of all the plebs and 2) not starting a war with a country (or, more accurately, most of the rest of the world) that he will lose to. The guy was educated in Switzerland, it's not as though he lived in the bubble of DPRK propaganda and nonsense and actually thinks that he really will destroy America when he's up at his podium, trying to look like a big man.

Stop fear mongering. It's not healthy.

Chewster:

Lil devils x:

Why do you think he is not a complete idiot? Did you not hear the shat he said about why his father should have gone through with his threats against the US? He has killed everyone close to him, he killed his own brother. He is a nut case. He has given us no reason at all to think he would not carry out his threats. He is not his father.

And yet, all the Western media rhetoric surrounding North Korea was the almost same during the Jong-Il days. The media said the same sorts of things. "They could attack at any time! The DPRK is crazy! We're all in trouble for real real this time!"

Look, what does Jong-Un care about more than anything in this world? Maintaining power. How does he do that? 1) Looking strong in front of all the plebs and 2) not starting a war with a country (or, more accurately, most of the rest of the world) that he will lose to. The guy was educated in Switzerland, it's not as though he lived in the bubble of DPRK propaganda and nonsense and actually thinks that he really will destroy America when he's up at his podium, trying to look like a big man.

Stop fear mongering. It's not healthy.

>be north korea
>literally say you want to annihilate the united states with nuclear missiles
>united states citizens discuss north korea wanting to annihilate them
>one person speaks against this discussion "Stop fear mongering. It's not healthy."
>kim jong un's fw

image

Advocating people not take threats seriously is far more unhealthy than the 'fear-mongering' of pointing out what North Korea's regime has stated it wishes to do. It sets a dangerous precedent to ignore any country's threats because then other countries will try to strengthen this grey area by joking about massive threats and then when one of them follows through they can go "oh well lol we gave you fair warning" and at that point people won't know what threats to take seriously and what ones to ignore. Further, if North Korea is allowed to gain nuclear weapons, other countries will follow suit and eventually you will have a world of countries which all have nukes. And when hundreds of countries have nukes, it's only a matter of time before one of them has a person in charge mad enough to use them and consequently kill millions or the whole world.

So yeah if Trump nukes North Korea it will not be on my list of reasons he should serve multiple lifetimes of imprisonment. He's not the bad guy in this situation.

Chewster:

Lil devils x:

Why do you think he is not a complete idiot? Did you not hear the shat he said about why his father should have gone through with his threats against the US? He has killed everyone close to him, he killed his own brother. He is a nut case. He has given us no reason at all to think he would not carry out his threats. He is not his father.

And yet, all the Western media rhetoric surrounding North Korea was the almost same during the Jong-Il days. The media said the same sorts of things. "They could attack at any time! The DPRK is crazy! We're all in trouble for real real this time!"

Look, what does Jong-Un care about more than anything in this world? Maintaining power. How does he do that? 1) Looking strong in front of all the plebs and 2) not starting a war with a country (or, more accurately, most of the rest of the world) that he will lose to. The guy was educated in Switzerland, it's not as though he lived in the bubble of DPRK propaganda and nonsense and actually thinks that he really will destroy America when he's up at his podium, trying to look like a big man.

Stop fear mongering. It's not healthy.

The media is treating him the same as his father, but the guy is not the same guy. Prior to his father passing, I was really really hoping his brother would come to power instead. I did pay attention back then, this cretin is a monster. All he talked about prior was how his father needed to stop being all talk and actually do what he said he would do. He considered his father weak for not actually attacking IS the problem. His father only cared about maintaining power, He is not his father and he very well may truly believe that carrying out an attack to show you have " teeth" than he does about maintaining power. It was not from his " propaganda, it was from people that were around him growing up that defected. These events greatly affected his mindset on this while growing up. It is also why he kills so many around him even now. He trusts no one, and does not value life as much as his father did.

That is not " fear mongering" it is just addressing the fact that these are two different people, and we were aware of this prior to him gaining control over the nation. I would think it would be a terrible oversight to just think he is all talk like his father when everything he has said and done has shown us otherwise.

Epyc Wynn:
>united states citizens discuss north korea wanting to annihilate them

Would this be the same discussion people were having on here four years ago when Jong-Un was threatening to annihilate America then? Hows about the one three months ago where people were crying that the sky was falling and nothing came of it then either? Honestly, how are people this forgetful?

Here's a little something for you: America has been issuing threats to North Korea for decades and the DPRK the same in return. Bush did it. Obama did it. Both sides rightly viewed them as what they were, nothing more than empty posturing. Neither side went flying into war over words because not following through on threats doesn't destroy a country's credibility. Children get goaded into fighting over words. Global leaders, not so much. And in global politics, words matter to an extent. But you know what matters even more? Actions. Trump isn't moving troops toward the peninsula and Jong-Un is still just "considering" launching a few missiles toward Guam.

Lil devils x:
The media is treating him the same as his father, but the guy is not the same guy. Prior to his father passing, I was really really hoping his brother would come to power instead. I did pay attention back then, this cretin is a monster. All he talked about prior was how his father needed to stop being all talk and actually do what he said he would do. He considered his father weak for not actually attacking IS the problem. His father only cared about maintaining power, He is not his father and he very well may truly believe that carrying out an attack to show you have " teeth" than he does about maintaining power. It was not from his " propaganda, it was from people that were around him growing up that defected. These events greatly affected his mindset on this while growing up. It is also why he kills so many around him even now. He trusts no one, and does not value life as much as his father did.

That is not " fear mongering" it is just addressing the fact that these are two different people, and we were aware of this prior to him gaining control over the nation. I would think it would be a terrible oversight to just think he is all talk like his father when everything he has said and done has shown us otherwise.

Oh please. Kim Jong-Il had "dissidents" who would challenge him thrown into prison camps and killed too. As did his father. Dictators gonna dictate. Don't act like because Jong-Un talks a bigger game that this is any different.

Chewster:

Epyc Wynn:
>united states citizens discuss north korea wanting to annihilate them

Would this be the same discussion people were having on here four years ago when Jong-Un was threatening to annihilate America then? Hows about the one three months ago where people were crying that the sky was falling and nothing came of it then either? Honestly, how are people this forgetful?

Here's a little something for you: America has been issuing threats to North Korea for decades and the DPRK the same in return. Bush did it. Obama did it. Both sides rightly viewed them as what they were, nothing more than empty posturing. Neither side went flying into war over words because not following through on threats doesn't destroy a country's credibility. Children get goaded into fighting over words. Global leaders, not so much. And in global politics, words matter to an extent. But you know what matters even more? Actions. Trump isn't moving troops toward the peninsula and Jong-Un is still just "considering" launching a few missiles toward Guam.

Lil devils x:
The media is treating him the same as his father, but the guy is not the same guy. Prior to his father passing, I was really really hoping his brother would come to power instead. I did pay attention back then, this cretin is a monster. All he talked about prior was how his father needed to stop being all talk and actually do what he said he would do. He considered his father weak for not actually attacking IS the problem. His father only cared about maintaining power, He is not his father and he very well may truly believe that carrying out an attack to show you have " teeth" than he does about maintaining power. It was not from his " propaganda, it was from people that were around him growing up that defected. These events greatly affected his mindset on this while growing up. It is also why he kills so many around him even now. He trusts no one, and does not value life as much as his father did.

That is not " fear mongering" it is just addressing the fact that these are two different people, and we were aware of this prior to him gaining control over the nation. I would think it would be a terrible oversight to just think he is all talk like his father when everything he has said and done has shown us otherwise.

Oh please. Kim Jong-Il had "dissidents" who would challenge him thrown into prison camps and killed too. As did his father. Dictators gonna dictate. Don't act like because Jong-Un talks a bigger game that this is any different.

I am not assuming that because he talks a bigger game that this is different. He has done much more than talk this entire time is the issue. So what should they do if he hits Guam?

Should they just sit back and wait for that to happen before taking precautions to protect the people in South Korea and Japan? I am not seeing any easy answers here. I am not saying they should attack NK, not at all, I am saying they need to be preparing for the very real possibility he may attack at any time and have a plan here to save as much life as humanly possible.

Trump wants a war. Not for power. For business. The only winners in war are the munitions factories, along with those they "lobby".

I find funny how several people here think USA can solve this fast and efficiently by doing a full assault. And in the way Trump has crippled the intelligence agencies, I doubt they can assassinate Jong-Un in a secret operation. How many times did they fail on assassinating Fidel Castro? (about 638)

CaitSeith:
I find funny how several people here think USA can solve this fast and efficiently by doing a full assault. And in the way Trump has crippled the intelligence agencies, I doubt they can assassinate Jong-Un in a secret operation. How many times did they fail on assassinating Fidel Castro? (about 638)

Well, the Iraq war was basically won on the strategic scale in a little over a month. Even though NK would have a far larger army (Iraq had around 400k, I think it's been mentioned that NK has 1.15 million not including reserves), modern war is fast, especially between countries of different tech levels. It's the clean up and occupation after that's a bitch.

Lil devils x:

realJeremyP:

Lil devils x:

If that is the case, when are they going to start evacuating South Korea and Japan to the US before shat hits the fan?

Why? To waste precious time and resources? A well executed strike would render North Korea militarily ruined in hours. Did they evacuate Iranians and Pakistanis prior to the Afghanistan War?

Do you have any idea how different this is than the Afghan war? You cannot even begin to compare the two situations. All NK has been doing for the past 50 years is piling up ammunition and weapons pointed at Seoul. This is not the same thing at all. You are talking about densely populated high tech cities with millions of people, The US has no way to stop the attacks on South Korea from hitting, there are simply too many weapons, too close to their target and too many US loving civilians the US promised to protect will die.

I do not think you understand how this works. Before the US can even get forces close enough NK will launch their attacks on the south and Japan. US forces are not strong enough in the area currently to be able to do enough fast enough. It is impossible for them to do enough fast enough is the issue here. NK has guaranteed to make it extremely bloody if we try. The threats here are no where near comparable.

Avnger:

realJeremyP:

Lil devils x:

If that is the case, when are they going to start evacuating South Korea and Japan to the US before shat hits the fan?

Why? To waste precious time and resources? A well executed strike would render North Korea militarily ruined in hours. Did they evacuate Iranians and Pakistanis prior to the Afghanistan War?

Holy Jesus fucking Christ. You actually believe this?

North Korea has ~6 million armed forces members (1-1.5 million active, 5 million reserves last time I checked up on it). From the word "go," NK forces would be able to immediately start raining shells down on Seoul and could overrun it completely in a matter of hours. There are only ~30,000 US troops and well under 1 million South Korean troops in country. To be completely frank, the US troops stationed in South Korea are there as nothing more than a show of force and a damn tripwire to guarantee we end up at war from a NK attack. They don't have the munitions, manpower, or firepower to do anything else.

This is completely ignoring the giant ass elephant in the room that is China. Any type of preemptive strike against NK is going to piss the fuck out of them. North Korea is viewed by the Chinese as a buffer state between their border and US influence in South Korea. The last time that US/UN/SK troops entered North Korea, we ended up in a shooting war with China itself. Does that sound like a good idea to get ourselves into again?

Finally, let's not forget that the type of leaders that North Korea has wouldn't hesitate to use nuclear weapons in the field if we miss any in the very first attack particularly if they felt they might lose power.

You're really giving the North Korean too much credit. They have a parade ground army with outdated equipment, no real navy to speak of, an air force that would have been okay during the cold war, and so many leadership purges they have a very weak command structure. The China of the 1950s is much different than the China of today. You have to realize when the Chinese started helping the North Koreans they had an experienced army coming out of the Civil War and had experienced troops and leadership.

There's too much infighting in the current Chinese Communist Party, and border conflicts with India for the Chinese to risk straining their military further. Xi Jingping knows he's on the CCP's chopping block. One blunder and he's out. He has to tell North Korea off. He can't fight a two front war with India and the US, and he can't back down on the Indian border.

Lil devils x:

The media is treating him the same as his father, but the guy is not the same guy. Prior to his father passing, I was really really hoping his brother would come to power instead. I did pay attention back then, this cretin is a monster. All he talked about prior was how his father needed to stop being all talk and actually do what he said he would do. He considered his father weak for not actually attacking IS the problem. His father only cared about maintaining power, He is not his father and he very well may truly believe that carrying out an attack to show you have " teeth" than he does about maintaining power. It was not from his " propaganda, it was from people that were around him growing up that defected. These events greatly affected his mindset on this while growing up. It is also why he kills so many around him even now. He trusts no one, and does not value life as much as his father did.

That is not " fear mongering" it is just addressing the fact that these are two different people, and we were aware of this prior to him gaining control over the nation. I would think it would be a terrible oversight to just think he is all talk like his father when everything he has said and done has shown us otherwise.

For starters, no. The DPRK will not relinquish its nukes, nor will stop making vague threats at its political enemies. Why? Because Libya. The Western world extended to Libya the chance of disarmament of long-range strike capabilities, and by the time it was conveniently outside the zeitgeist that they had accepted that and did start winding back secret programs for potential nuclear weapons, the West toppled Gaddafi from power anyways. No differently how in the news the DPRK offered their own NFU pledge to the UN in 2016 and no one covered it. No one accepted it.

Basically, the DPRK doesn't want to be Libya 2.0 ... It pursued diplomatic actions in 2016 of; "We need these weapons, and we won't makea show of them *if* you halt trade embargoes."

That doesn't excuse the DPRK, but it also doesn't excuse Western governments for not champing at the bit of having a growing list of powers they can still perform active regime change through to justify overbloated military expenditures. Generals do not turn down additional funding, arms manufacturers do not turn down additional funding, and thus politicians find convenient targets to paint in the news to distract people from other crippling issues.

The DPRK can never get rid of its weapons ... precisely because the only presidential candidate to try to fight the arms manufacturers and generals (yet find popularity with common soldiers for a reason) was Ron Paul. The EU (or more so NATO in general) is no less guilty. After all, the only reason why Europeans kicked up a stink about Iraq was unlike Gaddafi, Hussein was willing to sell oil in Euros directly to European states, or in favour of a Keynesian like idea of direct clearance house-esque trade.

How many Europeans were against sending Libya back to a primitive, fundamentalist Islamic state?

Precisely how many Westerners would care if the DPRK did scale down and dismantle their nuclear weapons program only to be toppled 5 years later?

Thought so.

Lil devils x:

FalloutJack:
Both leaders have child brains and are functionally delusional. We should seal them up into a little room and just never look back.

So like why is no one trying to figure out how we are supposed to evacuate 200 million people from the region? They really should get started on that... We should bring all of Japan and South Korea and put them in the midwest to have the children of the corn stare at them in awe.

Why are you asking me this thing, when I suggested the idea of removing bad leaders from positions of leadership for the sake of all those millions? I ask because I literally don't know how to respond, otherwise.

The moment a country with nukes threatens to destroy you in your entirety is the moment you should take that threat seriously and act accordingly. Failure to understand that will damn the future world to tyranny by a terrorist country with nukes followed by complete annihilation of tens of millions by the terrorist country with nukes; or worse.

We could end all this now before the world is put in even more grave danger. How do you all feel about North Korea one day having an arsenal like Russia's? How do you all feel about every country in the world eventually gaining nukes since North Korea has gotten away with it? I can safely tell you all this will not end safely for the rest of the world unless North Korea is taken down in a direct military invasion. We are at the end of our rope and must face this reality rather than allow it to conquer us.

Epyc Wynn:

We could end all this now before the world is put in even more grave danger. How do you all feel about North Korea one day having an arsenal like Russia's? How do you all feel about every country in the world eventually gaining nukes since North Korea has gotten away with it?

The West helped Israel to get some, let India get some which instantly let their rival Pakistan follow... That ship is basically sailed. And NK has not even signed the non-proliveration treaty so they are are not even braking any treaties while going for nukes. Furthermore nukes are more than half a century old tech. It is not actually that much of a secret anymore how to build some.
And no, NK would never catch up on Russia. The Industrial capacity is just not there.

I can safely tell you all this will not end safely for the rest of the world unless North Korea is taken down in a direct military invasion. We are at the end of our rope and must face this reality rather than allow it to conquer us.

That would be a war of agression because NK does not have done anything warranting an invasion yet as far as international law is concerned. And they take care to keep it that way by sticking to threats and rocket tests landing in international waters while showing that they could hit something else.

If the US attacks first, the UN must oppose because they can't ever support wars of agressions, regardless how disliked the target is. And NATO won't be able to do anything either, as it is hardwired to be a defensive tool never to be used to invade other countries. Even for Afghanistan it took a lot of creative energy to brand a terrorist attack as an Attack of Afghanistan on the US to be able to trigger NATO. That won't happen for an attack on NK.

If however NK actually attacked, all of the US allies would join and even the UN would condone an Invasion. Not even China could really object to self defense.

Epyc Wynn:
The moment a country with nukes threatens to destroy you in your entirety is the moment you should take that threat seriously and act accordingly. Failure to understand that will damn the future world to tyranny by a terrorist country with nukes followed by complete annihilation of tens of millions by the terrorist country with nukes; or worse.

We could end all this now before the world is put in even more grave danger. How do you all feel about North Korea one day having an arsenal like Russia's? How do you all feel about every country in the world eventually gaining nukes since North Korea has gotten away with it? I can safely tell you all this will not end safely for the rest of the world unless North Korea is taken down in a direct military invasion. We are at the end of our rope and must face this reality rather than allow it to conquer us.

Russia "threatened to destroy the US" (and vice versa) time after time throughout the cold war. Should the US have acted and taken the first strike?

The US and Russia still exist today because both sides chose not to be the first to strike (M.A.D.).

North Korea has been making threats for years. Even though he's an unstable dictator, so far MAD has prevailed and he has not attacked. Even with ample time and opportunity to do so.

A US first strike would turn the bloodbath from probability into a certainty. Even if no US forces are harmed, millions of Koreans on both sides will die.

The US and South Korea aren't in all that bad a position to just let NK fire the first ICBM. The anti-missile interceptors are in place and they've done ok in recent tests. ...NK Artillery would still flatten Seoul, but that was put in place ages ago and nobody beat the war drums back then.

Satinavian:
If the US attacks first, the UN must oppose because they can't ever support wars of agressions, regardless how disliked the target is. And NATO won't be able to do anything either, as it is hardwired to be a defensive tool never to be used to invade other countries. Even for Afghanistan it took a lot of creative energy to brand a terrorist attack as an Attack of Afghanistan on the US to be able to trigger NATO. That won't happen for an attack on NK.

Didn't stop the war in Iraq, though.

Satinavian:
If however NK actually attacked, all of the US allies would join and even the UN would condone an Invasion. Not even China could really object to self defense.

They could, but it'd be in their interests in nuclear armed countries didn't go round starting major wars, which is the main thing.

renegade7:

Here's the reality of it. If North Korea truly wanted to hit the US with a nuke, they could have done that years ago. They didn't need a missile, there's no technological barrier stopping them from hiding a warhead on a fishing boat and sailing it into harbor at NYC or Los Angeles.

image

Satinavian:

If the US attacks first, the UN must oppose because they can't ever support wars of agressions, regardless how disliked the target is. And NATO won't be able to do anything either, as it is hardwired to be a defensive tool never to be used to invade other countries. Even for Afghanistan it took a lot of creative energy to brand a terrorist attack as an Attack of Afghanistan on the US to be able to trigger NATO. That won't happen for an attack on NK.

If however NK actually attacked, all of the US allies would join and even the UN would condone an Invasion. Not even China could really object to self defense.

Honestly, I dont think any of this really matters. I think the US can kick North Korea's ass, I just think countless lives will be needlessly lost regardless.

I mean, unless NK -does- try to Nuke the US, and shoots a dud, but still 'attacked', but as funny as "Made in Korea" jokes might be, its not enough to alleviate fears.

And the UN doesnt do shit anyways. Remember when they stood up to Russia? Me neither.

skywolfblue:

Epyc Wynn:
The moment a country with nukes threatens to destroy you in your entirety is the moment you should take that threat seriously and act accordingly. Failure to understand that will damn the future world to tyranny by a terrorist country with nukes followed by complete annihilation of tens of millions by the terrorist country with nukes; or worse.

We could end all this now before the world is put in even more grave danger. How do you all feel about North Korea one day having an arsenal like Russia's? How do you all feel about every country in the world eventually gaining nukes since North Korea has gotten away with it? I can safely tell you all this will not end safely for the rest of the world unless North Korea is taken down in a direct military invasion. We are at the end of our rope and must face this reality rather than allow it to conquer us.

Russia "threatened to destroy the US" (and vice versa) time after time throughout the cold war. Should the US have acted and taken the first strike?

The US and Russia still exist today because both sides chose not to be the first to strike (M.A.D.).

North Korea has been making threats for years. Even though he's an unstable dictator, so far MAD has prevailed and he has not attacked. Even with ample time and opportunity to do so.

A US first strike would turn the bloodbath from probability into a certainty. Even if no US forces are harmed, millions of Koreans on both sides will die.

The US and South Korea aren't in all that bad a position to just let NK fire the first ICBM. The anti-missile interceptors are in place and they've done ok in recent tests. ...NK Artillery would still flatten Seoul, but that was put in place ages ago and nobody beat the war drums back then.

Russia once almost entirely nuked the United States but that was prevented due to one Russian man refusing to convey information from an incorrect piece of technology that incorrectly said the U.S. had launched a nuclear weapon.

The reason Russia has been left alone is because even though they indeed threatened to destroy the U.S., they also had sufficient weapons to where if they did it, we could not stop them.

With North Korea we have a far greater threat wherein they not only are the most likely country in the world to use nuclear weapons but far more strongly threaten on a consistent basis to launch them than any other country. We could prevent North Korea from becoming a nuclear super-power able to level countries with one invasion. If we can stop an evil regime that wants to destroy the United States from gaining the power to do so, then we should stop that regime even if it costs millions of lives in the present. Would you prefer us sacrifice all lives in the future?

If we let this go on any longer, I guarantee to you all one day North Korea will have the nuclear power that Russia has today. And when that happens, it will only be a matter of time before the world is destroyed.

Epyc Wynn:

Russia "threatened to destroy the US" (and vice versa) time after time throughout the cold war. Should the US have acted and taken the first strike?

The US and Russia still exist today because both sides chose not to be the first to strike (M.A.D.).

North Korea has been making threats for years. Even though he's an unstable dictator, so far MAD has prevailed and he has not attacked. Even with ample time and opportunity to do so.

A US first strike would turn the bloodbath from probability into a certainty. Even if no US forces are harmed, millions of Koreans on both sides will die.

The US and South Korea aren't in all that bad a position to just let NK fire the first ICBM. The anti-missile interceptors are in place and they've done ok in recent tests. ...NK Artillery would still flatten Seoul, but that was put in place ages ago and nobody beat the war drums back then.

Russia once almost entirely nuked the United States but that was prevented due to one Russian man refusing to convey information from an incorrect piece of technology that incorrectly said the U.S. had launched a nuclear weapon.

The reason Russia has been left alone is because even though they indeed threatened to destroy the U.S., they also had sufficient weapons to where if they did it, we could not stop them.

With North Korea we have a far greater threat wherein they not only are the most likely country in the world to use nuclear weapons but far more strongly threaten on a consistent basis to launch them than any other country. We could prevent North Korea from becoming a nuclear super-power able to level countries with one invasion. If we can stop an evil regime that wants to destroy the United States from gaining the power to do so, then we should stop that regime even if it costs millions of lives in the present. Would you prefer us sacrifice all lives in the future?

If we let this go on any longer, I guarantee to you all one day North Korea will have the nuclear power that Russia has today. And when that happens, it will only be a matter of time before the world is destroyed.[/quote]

Or, you know, there are other countries in the world other than the US and Russia and a large scale nuclear exange threatens to destroy all of civilization and make the planet uninhabitable. Also, initiating a thermonuclear holocaust would probably lead to a few minutes of awkward silence when said administration sits down to do an interview with the press.

Also, NK will never have the same ammount of nuclear power as Russia, France, Britain and the US do just because of the time required to manufacture advanced ballistics alone. They just lack the manpower and research institutions to prove create a situation of mutually assured destruction. China acquired nukes about 15 years after the Soviets did and for all their economic and technological capabilities their stockpiled didn't increase above a 100 warheads, only a few being placed on long range missles.

NK's deterent is based around the threat not to the US, but to other major East Asian powers, such as its southern neighbour and Japan. The nuclear option must be an Ultima Ratio Regum in this case, but I see how the NATO powers ended up in a Catch 22 scenario with Kim Fatty the Third sitting on a pile of enriched uranium.

Zhukov:

Americans don't deserve democracy.

As Joseph de Maistre once said, "Every country gets the government it deserves."

RunsWithBears:

As Joseph de Maistre once said, "Every country gets the government it deserves."

IDK ... I mean there is a fuckton of paperwork to get through to rectify the situation. At this point, I'm planning to just buy my own micronation. "Then every country gets the government that bought it..." and stick with that model for awhile. Death to any who oppose me...

Honestly, I'd be half tempted to buy a micronation just to start wars with other micronations. Frankly if we get a whole bunch of micronations to agree to send their best soldier out to a neutral territory (basically a barge up for grabs), we can call it a 'world war'.

Plus then we can have a wikipage that would otherwise be filled with nothing be filled with heroic exploits like The Battle of the Fourth Cistern ... where General Hughes of the Crescent Bay Army successfully repelled an attacking force by throwing their tennis shoes at an intruder trying to collect their undies from a nearby clothesline. Peace treaty was long and arduous, but eventually the mighty Commonwealth of Junktown accepted a hot meat pie and a dozen pairs of clean socks for their share of the satellite internet connection, after a bitterly fought compaign frequently resulting in harsh verbal abuse.

It will be glorious. Highest military honours.

I'd say that this was long overdue. That regime needs to be taken out. It's nothing but a plague on not only it's own people, but the good ol USA and it's allies as well. Let South Korea stabilize the region, they can do it with ease. Unfortunate that innocents will perish, but that is war unfortunately.

Addendum_Forthcoming:

RunsWithBears:

As Joseph de Maistre once said, "Every country gets the government it deserves."

IDK ... I mean there is a fuckton of paperwork to get through to rectify the situation. At this point, I'm planning to just buy my own micronation. "Then every country gets the government that bought it..." and stick with that model for awhile. Death to any who oppose me...

Honestly, I'd be half tempted to buy a micronation just to start wars with other micronations. Frankly if we get a whole bunch of micronations to agree to send their best soldier out to a neutral territory (basically a barge up for grabs), we can call it a 'world war'.

Plus then we can have a wikipage that would otherwise be filled with nothing be filled with heroic exploits like The Battle of the Fourth Cistern ... where General Hughes of the Crescent Bay Army successfully repelled an attacking force by throwing their tennis shoes at an intruder trying to collect their undies from a nearby clothesline. Peace treaty was long and arduous, but eventually the mighty Commonwealth of Junktown accepted a hot meat pie and a dozen pairs of clean socks for their share of the satellite internet connection, after a bitterly fought compaign frequently resulting in harsh verbal abuse.

It will be glorious. Highest military honours.

So, how would the visa application process look?

Level 7 Dragon:

So, how would the visa application process look?

Naturalization process equals however long it takes me to shake your hand and call you a citizen.

Port entrance fees? Precisely 1 medium sized carrot, two turnips of 5 grams or higher bulb weight.

Addendum_Forthcoming:

RunsWithBears:

As Joseph de Maistre once said, "Every country gets the government it deserves."

IDK ... I mean there is a fuckton of paperwork to get through to rectify the situation. At this point, I'm planning to just buy my own micronation. "Then every country gets the government that bought it..." and stick with that model for awhile. Death to any who oppose me...

Honestly, I'd be half tempted to buy a micronation just to start wars with other micronations. Frankly if we get a whole bunch of micronations to agree to send their best soldier out to a neutral territory (basically a barge up for grabs), we can call it a 'world war'.

Plus then we can have a wikipage that would otherwise be filled with nothing be filled with heroic exploits like The Battle of the Fourth Cistern ... where General Hughes of the Crescent Bay Army successfully repelled an attacking force by throwing their tennis shoes at an intruder trying to collect their undies from a nearby clothesline. Peace treaty was long and arduous, but eventually the mighty Commonwealth of Junktown accepted a hot meat pie and a dozen pairs of clean socks for their share of the satellite internet connection, after a bitterly fought compaign frequently resulting in harsh verbal abuse.

It will be glorious. Highest military honours.

I'm not sure whether you understood the meaning of de Maistre's words.

RunsWithBears:

I'm not sure whether you understood the meaning of de Maistre's words.

Honestly, I thought it was Socrates that said something akin to it. So undoubtedly, yes? If we're talking the failures of democracy specifically, after all. Haven't read Maistre... but that doesn't make my commentary less valid?

Addendum_Forthcoming:

Honestly, I thought it was Socrates that said something akin to it. So undoubtedly, yes? If we're talking the failures of democracy specifically, after all. Haven't read Maistre... but that doesn't make my commentary less valid?

The quote comes from de Maistre, but Socrates despised democracy, so I wouldn't be surprised if he said something in the same spirit. Anyhow, I was only making sure.

RunsWithBears:

The quote comes from de Maistre, but Socrates despised democracy, so I wouldn't be surprised if he said something in the same spirit. Anyhow, I was only making sure.

Pffh. I ain't going to lie. But Socrates did more than despise democracy. He thought voting should be considered a lifeskill otherwise it is openly destructive.

BaldursGateTemple:
Let South Korea stabilize the region, they can do it with ease.

Except not. It would set South Korea back something like six decades economically. Not to mention, what the fuck are you going to do with 25 million refugees?

Chewster:

BaldursGateTemple:
Let South Korea stabilize the region, they can do it with ease.

Except not. It would set South Korea back something like six decades economically. Not to mention, what the fuck are you going to do with 25 million refugees?

]

Let them fend for themselves. Survival of the fittest and all that jazz. Besides anything is better than having a dictator starve their own people.

BaldursGateTemple:

Chewster:

BaldursGateTemple:
Let South Korea stabilize the region, they can do it with ease.

Except not. It would set South Korea back something like six decades economically. Not to mention, what the fuck are you going to do with 25 million refugees?

]

Let them fend for themselves. Survival of the fittest and all that jazz. Besides anything is better than having a dictator starve their own people.

Careful now. Give it another 6 years of Trump and people could be making similar arguments about the US.

I wonder when we can expect to see all the people in favor of war going to their local recruiting offices and enlist? I mean we're talking possible nuclear confrontations, here. I would assume that if you think it's worth the risk, you'd also be willing to walk your talk.

SupahEwok:
Trump wants a war. Not for power. For business. The only winners in war are the munitions factories, along with those they "lobby".

Nobody needs a war like a president doing bad in the polls.

undeadsuitor:

SupahEwok:
Trump wants a war. Not for power. For business. The only winners in war are the munitions factories, along with those they "lobby".

Nobody needs a war like a president doing bad in the polls.

This would be a justified war. A brutal regime will be toppled.

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