Are Men and Women different?
Yes
90% (63)
90% (63)
No
10% (7)
10% (7)
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Poll: Do you think Men and Women are different? Why?

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Of course they're different. The dispute is over when and where those differences matter.

Sure. I mean, the differences are smaller than evo-psych aficionados claim, and is far more likely to be socially based than biological, but they do exist.

Course, if they're socially based, there's no actual reason for them to exist, really. After all, programming was women's work when it was perceived as a clerical job (as was more complex in a lot of ways).

undeadsuitor:
...for instance, a man's brain is never questioned when working jobs like nursing. In fact, their differences are often rewarded and held higher than the original women.

Never questioned? What about jobs which involve children, like kindergarten teacher or swimming instructor? Everytime a pedophile is found somewhere in the country, all of these men are instantly regarded with suspicion.

Saelune:
If you want to live like a Caveman, thats on you. I however prefer to be more "evolved" :)

Zhukov:

Considering that not so long ago you made a thread asking questions about evolution that displayed an understanding of the subject below that of a high school science textbook, it's fucking bizarre to see you use "evolution" as a one-word argument.

Smithnikov:

Ain't it hilarious when conservatives have no issue dragging out evolution for that kind of argument while turning around and handing money to people like Phil Robertson, Kent Hovind and NephilimFree later on?

Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/12/061207-sex-humans.html

inu-kun:
Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Wait, conservatives are a race?

I fucking knew it! It explains so much!

inu-kun:

Saelune:
If you want to live like a Caveman, thats on you. I however prefer to be more "evolved" :)

Zhukov:

Considering that not so long ago you made a thread asking questions about evolution that displayed an understanding of the subject below that of a high school science textbook, it's fucking bizarre to see you use "evolution" as a one-word argument.

Smithnikov:

Ain't it hilarious when conservatives have no issue dragging out evolution for that kind of argument while turning around and handing money to people like Phil Robertson, Kent Hovind and NephilimFree later on?

Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/12/061207-sex-humans.html

1. What Zhukov said, and 2. Conservatism is well, a set of ideas. Being one is kind of dependent on thinking a certain way. Too many differences of opinion and you eventually arent really a conservative, now are you?

And ofcourse, what being a conservative, atleast as defined in the US, is well, believing in a whole lot of prejudices.

Or maybe no conservative is a conservative and the name lost all meaning, but it still means whatever you are, well, I oppose it vehemently.

RunsWithBears:

Never questioned? What about jobs which involve children, like kindergarten teacher or swimming instructor? Everytime a pedophile is found somewhere in the country, all of these men are instantly regarded with suspicion.

I don't think that's actually true though (not in the UK,I can't speak for elsewhere). Obviously it doesn't help when people in those positions of authority are found to have abused children, like the recent case with footballers in the UK, but there isn't an implication that all people in such positions are paedophiles - if what you say is true, no one would ever leave their children with an adult male, and clearly they do. Not that I'd leave my (fictional) kids with a priest...

It is true that there is an unfair perception that men make poor fathers for young children, and dads are shut out in situations like public play areas where new parents chat while their kids do whatever kids do. Whether that is because people are scared they're paedophiles (seems unlikely, if they really thought that they'd do more than just isolate them) or just because they don't know the best way to handle a new situation (more likely) I don't know. Maybe they don't think New Dad wants to hear about vaginal tears and 'buttonholing' (bleurgh!).

Fischgopf:
I think they are. In some way's through societal pressure, in some way's inherently.

The way society is structured is a byproduct of inherent differences between men and women. It's not the only factor, but it's a big one.

inu-kun:

Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Well, all of us liberals are SJW, Anita and antifa supporters, aren't we? That's what conservatives keep telling us, so...

bastardofmelbourne:
Of course they're different. The dispute is over when and where those differences matter.

A major challenge: equal opportunity or equal outcome? Its likely done with both genders but it appears that if a difference benefits 1 sex over the other, then the benefited sex will give explanations for that difference. If it harms 1 over the other, then, it doesn't matter why there is a difference: it is different, which is unjust, so just fix it.

Where I've seen this, for instance:
1. Men make more money than woman. Men say, "that's because". Women say, "Fix it".
2. Women live longer than men. Women say, "that's because". Men say, "Fix it."

Not sure how we'll ever get consistency.

Zhukov:

inu-kun:
Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Wait, conservatives are a race?

I fucking knew it! It explains so much!

More like "assuming things about people in other countries without knowing much about it's politics.

But let me ask a question, what was the point of your original reply? I don't see an yway it makes a conversation or adds/detracts from what I said or being discussed in general, the only thing from my point of view is making me feel like shit, which I'd admit you succeeded.

Smithnikov:

inu-kun:

Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Well, all of us liberals are SJW, Anita and antifa supporters, aren't we? That's what conservatives keep telling us, so...

You write stuff like this all the time. I'm a liberal and while I have been called SJW on some occassions, it's nbot something happens all the time. Me thinks you might be more of a progressive then you realize.

inu-kun:

Zhukov:

inu-kun:
Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Wait, conservatives are a race?

I fucking knew it! It explains so much!

More like "assuming things about people in other countries without knowing much about it's politics.

But let me ask a question, what was the point of your original reply? I don't see an yway it makes a conversation or adds/detracts from what I said or being discussed in general, the only thing from my point of view is making me feel like shit, which I'd admit you succeeded.

I think he's sick of your conservative victim narrative.

Doesn't help that only one of the people you quoted mentioned conservatives at all, so what was the point of you bringing that up?

Fischgopf:

You write stuff like this all the time.

There's a reason I do. Not a hard one to find, either.

I'm a liberal and while I have been called SJW on some occassions, it's nbot something happens all the time. Me thinks you might be more of a progressive then you realize.

Okay, how am I one?

Fischgopf:

Smithnikov:

inu-kun:

Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Well, all of us liberals are SJW, Anita and antifa supporters, aren't we? That's what conservatives keep telling us, so...

You write stuff like this all the time. I'm a liberal and while I have been called SJW on some occassions, it's nbot something happens all the time. Me thinks you might be more of a progressive then you realize.

And how exactly are you a liberal? I have seen little evidence to support such a claim.

inu-kun:

Zhukov:

inu-kun:
Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Wait, conservatives are a race?

I fucking knew it! It explains so much!

More like "assuming things about people in other countries without knowing much about it's politics.

You do that all the time.

inu-kun:
But let me ask a question, what was the point of your original reply?

To point out that you are making dismissive mic-drop arguments based on matters about which you have demonstrated a lack of understanding.

I thought my intent was pretty straightforward.

I mean... Don't women talk waaaaaay more? That's got to be something right?

Reasonable Atheist:
I mean... Don't women talk waaaaaay more? That's got to be something right?

Read the cliff notes of a study on this once.

Turns out it's a misconception. Men talk more overall, although the difference wasn't massive.

If memory serves, and this was years ago so take it with a grain of salt, it did find that women will more likely talk with one another in an environment that is female only, or at least mostly female by a significant majority. In other words, throw a bunch of chicks in a room together they'll strike up more and longer conversation than if you do the same thing with guys. Once again though, the difference wasn't all that great.

Reasonable Atheist:
I mean... Don't women talk waaaaaay more? That's got to be something right?

In some circumstances yes, in others no. For every study that shows it going one way, there's another showing the opposite.

The oft recited statistic saying women speak 20,000 words a day to men's 7,000 appears to be an urban legend though. It basically works out in the wash.

Smithnikov:

I'm a liberal and while I have been called SJW on some occassions, it's nbot something happens all the time. Me thinks you might be more of a progressive then you realize.

Okay, how am I one?

You misunderstand. I'm not saying you are. I wouldn't have any clear cut example. I've just observed that propgressives tend to get the whole SJW-Cuck treatment more. So maybe you lean more toweards progressive then you realize if it happens so often?

Saelune:

Fischgopf:
[quote="Smithnikov" post="528.1005646.24085087"][quote="inu-kun" post="528.1005646.24084931"]
Ad hominem and all that, also what is with the racist idea that all conservatives anywhere are the same in their opinions? Check your privilage.

Well, all of us liberals are SJW, Anita and antifa supporters, aren't we? That's what conservatives keep telling us, so...

How about you tell me how I am not?

What ideas do you think I hold that are not liberal?

Fischgopf:

What ideas do you think I hold that are not liberal?

Well, I'll ask your opinion on a couple of court cases. Those are usually good jumping off points.

What was your opinion on

Lawrence vs Texas

FEC vs Citizens United/Buckley vs Valeo

Smithnikov:

Fischgopf:

What ideas do you think I hold that are not liberal?

Well, I'll ask your opinion on a couple of court cases. Those are usually good jumping off points.

What was your opinion on

Lawrence vs Texas

FEC vs Citizens United/Buckley vs Valeo

My opinion in regards to sex is that what other people are doing isn't my or societys business as long as nobody is getting hurt against their will.

The other is about Unions and Corporations etc. doing independent political advertisements. I don't think they should, they have too many resources.

Fischgopf:

Smithnikov:

Fischgopf:

What ideas do you think I hold that are not liberal?

Well, I'll ask your opinion on a couple of court cases. Those are usually good jumping off points.

What was your opinion on

Lawrence vs Texas

FEC vs Citizens United/Buckley vs Valeo

My opinion in regards to sex is that what other people are doing isn't my or societys business as long as nobody is getting hurt against their will.

The other is about Unions and Corporations etc. doing independent political advertisements. I don't think they should, they have too many resources.

Welcome to SJW cuckold regressive land then.

Fischgopf:

How about you tell me how I am not?

What ideas do you think I hold that are not liberal?

No, I asked you. You are the one who consideres yourself liberal. Maybe I have been wrong about you. The burden of proof is on you.

Lil devils x:
Of course men and women are different. Not only are males and females different, but individuals are different as well and even our immune systems do not always have the same response. That does not mean either is "superior" than the other, rather they are complimentary. Male and female brains are not even wired the same, and that is awesome! People can be different and equal and that be a great thing.

I have no idea why some people seem to think different is bad. Life would be boring as hell if everyone and everything was the "same".

Because history is against you. I made up a saying, "you cant have a group until you exclude people." People have always seen things as different as bad. I don't know how we are going to get there from here.

undeadsuitor:
A little. Both through society teaching and neural connections. But it's like the difference between sky blue and robins egg blue.

The problem comes from when "brain differences" is used to almost exclusively disbar women from male dominated jobs (even when they weren't always male dominated) even though it's never applied the other way around (for instance, a man's brain is never questioned when working jobs like nursing. In fact, their differences are often rewarded and held higher than the original women)

As a man working as a nurse, I can attest this is very much not the case.

I am not trusted to work alone with a female patient, let alone a young patient (say, age 20 or below), people consider me more socially brutish despite having the least workplace drama on my plate between my colleagues and supervisors and don't get me started on how often I'm told certain patients require "a woman's touch" in their approach.

Basically, I'm a useful muscle in the best kind of situations, and a ticking rape timebomb at worst, although that is never explicitly stated, more implied with a healthy dose of suspicion.

Baffle2:

I don't think that's actually true though (not in the UK,I can't speak for elsewhere). Obviously it doesn't help when people in those positions of authority are found to have abused children, like the recent case with footballers in the UK, but there isn't an implication that all people in such positions are paedophiles - if what you say is true, no one would ever leave their children with an adult male, and clearly they do. Not that I'd leave my (fictional) kids with a priest...

My mom works in primary education (elementary school, basically) and told me that the peado-scare is a very real thing, it's true that the majority of parents don't suspect male teachers most of the time but then again, you don't need a majority to cause trouble.
There needs to be ONE parent that drops an implication, not even an accusation, just imply that this man "should not be around kids" and he can basically pack his bags, school management can generally not be arsed to defend him against slander and would much rather hire someone "less controversial", someone that does not cause gasps or raised eyebrows when they guide a student back in line by the shoulder/hand.

Saelune:

Fischgopf:

How about you tell me how I am not?

What ideas do you think I hold that are not liberal?

No, I asked you. You are the one who consideres yourself liberal. Maybe I have been wrong about you. The burden of proof is on you.

How the hell am I supposed to prove that to you?

That's why I am asking you, what makes you think I am not?

Fischgopf:

Saelune:

Fischgopf:

How about you tell me how I am not?

What ideas do you think I hold that are not liberal?

No, I asked you. You are the one who consideres yourself liberal. Maybe I have been wrong about you. The burden of proof is on you.

How the hell am I supposed to prove that to you?

That's why I am asking you, what makes you think I am not?

...By telling me what your liberal views are?

What makes me think you arent is that you seem to not express liberal views but rather conservative views.

Saelune:

Fischgopf:

Saelune:
No, I asked you. You are the one who consideres yourself liberal. Maybe I have been wrong about you. The burden of proof is on you.

How the hell am I supposed to prove that to you?

That's why I am asking you, what makes you think I am not?

...By telling me what your liberal views are?

What makes me think you arent is that you seem to not express liberal views but rather conservative views.

Which would be why I am asking what supposedly conservative views I have expressed? Nothing comes to mind in particular. If you'd like to know my beliefs, how about you simply ask me some more specific questions? Because I have no idea where to start with what you are asking me.

Smithnikov:

Fischgopf:

Smithnikov:

Well, I'll ask your opinion on a couple of court cases. Those are usually good jumping off points.

What was your opinion on

Lawrence vs Texas

FEC vs Citizens United/Buckley vs Valeo

My opinion in regards to sex is that what other people are doing isn't my or societys business as long as nobody is getting hurt against their will.

The other is about Unions and Corporations etc. doing independent political advertisements. I don't think they should, they have too many resources.

Welcome to SJW cuckold regressive land then.

I don't know dude, I still don't get the SJW, Cuckold treatment.

Fischgopf:

Saelune:

Fischgopf:

How the hell am I supposed to prove that to you?

That's why I am asking you, what makes you think I am not?

...By telling me what your liberal views are?

What makes me think you arent is that you seem to not express liberal views but rather conservative views.

Which would be why I am asking what supposedly conservative views I have expressed? Nothing comes to mind in particular. If you'd like to know my beliefs, how about you simply ask me some more specific questions? Because I have no idea where to start with what you are asking me.

This isnt a fucking trick question. It should not be this hard. Plus I have no desire to simply answer the question for you by telling you what I want to hear so you can just go "Yeah, that!".

Saelune:

Fischgopf:

Saelune:
...By telling me what your liberal views are?

What makes me think you arent is that you seem to not express liberal views but rather conservative views.

Which would be why I am asking what supposedly conservative views I have expressed? Nothing comes to mind in particular. If you'd like to know my beliefs, how about you simply ask me some more specific questions? Because I have no idea where to start with what you are asking me.

This isnt a fucking trick question. It should not be this hard. Plus I have no desire to simply answer the question for you by telling you what I want to hear so you can just go "Yeah, that!".

Sometimes I can't help but wonder what kind of thiughts go on in that head of yours.

But fine, since you are being childish and difficult as usual, I guess I'll just weirdly rattle off some of my beliefs without any kind of prompting because you believe things for no reason.

I believe in equality. Equal opportunity for all.

I believe in a social safety net. Social Medicine, unemployment benefits, etc.

I think people should be able to marry and have relationships with whomever they want given all parties are capable of consent

I think people should be able to freely exchange ideas and express themselves as long as they are not causing direct physical harm

Etc.

Plenty more, but you'd rather go on weird rambles about trick questions instead of just asking what my opinion is on something.

This is a profoundly deep question. I suggest we turn to the experts to answer it.

Fischgopf:

Saelune:

Fischgopf:

Which would be why I am asking what supposedly conservative views I have expressed? Nothing comes to mind in particular. If you'd like to know my beliefs, how about you simply ask me some more specific questions? Because I have no idea where to start with what you are asking me.

This isnt a fucking trick question. It should not be this hard. Plus I have no desire to simply answer the question for you by telling you what I want to hear so you can just go "Yeah, that!".

Sometimes I can't help but wonder what kind of thiughts go on in that head of yours.

But fine, since you are being childish and difficult as usual, I guess I'll just weirdly rattle off some of my beliefs without any kind of prompting because you believe things for no reason.

I believe in equality. Equal opportunity for all.

I believe in a social safety net. Social Medicine, unemployment benefits, etc.

I think people should be able to marry and have relationships with whomever they want given all parties are capable of consent

I think people should be able to freely exchange ideas and express themselves as long as they are not causing direct physical harm

Etc.

Plenty more, but you'd rather go on weird rambles about trick questions instead of just asking what my opinion is on something.

You claim to be a liberal, presumably because of the views you have which you believe to be in line with "liberal views". You should know your own views rather than avoiding them for multiple posts. I am not asking for your spiritual beliefs. If you're going to follow a defined ideology, then you kind of need to...follow it.

Saelune:

Fischgopf:

Saelune:
This isnt a fucking trick question. It should not be this hard. Plus I have no desire to simply answer the question for you by telling you what I want to hear so you can just go "Yeah, that!".

Sometimes I can't help but wonder what kind of thiughts go on in that head of yours.

But fine, since you are being childish and difficult as usual, I guess I'll just weirdly rattle off some of my beliefs without any kind of prompting because you believe things for no reason.

I believe in equality. Equal opportunity for all.

I believe in a social safety net. Social Medicine, unemployment benefits, etc.

I think people should be able to marry and have relationships with whomever they want given all parties are capable of consent

I think people should be able to freely exchange ideas and express themselves as long as they are not causing direct physical harm

Etc.

Plenty more, but you'd rather go on weird rambles about trick questions instead of just asking what my opinion is on something.

You claim to be a liberal, presumably because of the views you have which you believe to be in line with "liberal views". You should know your own views rather than avoiding them for multiple posts. I am not asking for your spiritual beliefs. If you're going to follow a defined ideology, then you kind of need to...follow it.

So you think it would be more meaningful if I just quoted the definition of liberalism at you? I don't think that would be very useful. So, what is required of a Liberal in your eyes? Let's see your gatekeeping.

The only one running around and hiding behind vagueness is you. Like I said, bring something up, I don't care what.

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