Brexit Negotiations

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realJeremyP:
The QS is very much Nazi. They are really a small leap from the FLQ. Anglophones were a targeted minority at one point in Quebec. I'm not trying to speak for anyone but myself, but a bomb in my mailbox isn't my idea of a good time.

What do you actually mean by "targeted minority"? You seem to be accusing the QS of violent paramilitary action. What are you specifically referring to?

Silvanus:

realJeremyP:
The QS is very much Nazi. They are really a small leap from the FLQ. Anglophones were a targeted minority at one point in Quebec. I'm not trying to speak for anyone but myself, but a bomb in my mailbox isn't my idea of a good time.

What do you actually mean by "targeted minority"? You seem to be accusing the QS of violent paramilitary action. What are you specifically referring to?

I compared the QS to the FLQ. A terrorist organization. A terrorist organization that used to put bombs in anglophone's mailboxes.

realJeremyP:
I compared the QS to the FLQ. A terrorist organization. A terrorist organization that used to put bombs in anglophone's mailboxes.

What have the QS done to draw this comparison with a terrorist organisation?

realJeremyP:
A terrorist organization that used to put bombs in anglophone's mailboxes.

I had thought there would be more than one anglophone in the entirety of Quebec. The More You Know, I guess.

Silvanus:

realJeremyP:
I compared the QS to the FLQ. A terrorist organization. A terrorist organization that used to put bombs in anglophone's mailboxes.

What have the QS done to draw this comparison with a terrorist organisation?

Pretty simple:

1. They're not WASPs.
2. They're anywhere to the left of the bastard child conceived by a Raygun, Thatcher, and Rand threesome.

See Barrack "Secret Muslim Terrorist" Obama for another example.

The last terrorist action in Quebec related to French/English was attempted assassination on the PQ newly elected prime minister, so maybe tone down the comparison to terrorism a bit.

realJeremyP:
The QS is very much Nazi. They are really a small leap from the FLQ. Anglophones were a targeted minority at one point in Quebec. I'm not trying to speak for anyone but myself, but a bomb in my mailbox isn't my idea of a good time.

This whole "The Anglophone were a targeted minority" spiel is complete reactionary BS that came with the French population taking back control from an Anglo-dominated society, the most noteworthy thing either the FLQ or the RIN ever did was the murder of Pierre Laporte, it's peanuts, and they haven't been relevant in forever.

Equating QS with the FLQ/RIN/Nazis simply because they are all to some extent nationalist and on the Left (the non-Strasserist Nazis less so) is completely insane. If you really wanted to make a comparison with another political entity, Sinn Fein would be it, but even then it'd be extremely unflattering and unfair to QS.

Go cry some more, Mordecai Richler, scaremongers like you are the reason why my family was scared of immigrating to Montreal.

Sonmi:
Equating QS with the FLQ/RIN/Nazis simply because they are all to some extent nationalist and on the Left (the non-Strasserist Nazis less so) is completely insane.

I made the initial comparison due to the fact their economic policy is completely identical to those of the Nazis and the fact their social views are basically an adlib of them with the "who" in regards to oppressed, discrimination and the like being changed, and they have their own Brownshirt's who riot in the street. The fact they are openly antisemitic and hate anglos is just icing on that cake.

Avnger:

2. They're anywhere to the left of the bastard child conceived by a Raygun, Thatcher, and Rand threesome.

You do realize that these people would kick Sanders out for being too right wing right? Hell as an Anglo and a Jew (double whammy in their minds) I'd probably be deported to Ontario should they come to power and make their UDI.

Now granted that won't happen since the moment they make their UDI they'd be arrested, but that's beside the point.

Hades:
Wow that's certainly a different tale.

Our media depicts a UK that repeatedly displays that it just isn't ready for these negotiations, constantly show up unprepared and that they don't seem to take it very seriously in general.

Pretty much this, though I think me and Hades live in the same country. I think the UK isn't as well prepared as the EU but then again, the EU has the EU bureaucracy helping them out whereas the British have the British bureaucracy. Obviously the former knows a lot more about the workings of the EU than the latter.

In any case, I think these negotiations have the problem that neither partner has a lot of room to budge. The EU negotiators are beholden to 27 countries and a parliament who all get a say in the matter. Pissing any of those off harms internal unity of the EU which is more important to them than whatever happens with Britain. The British conservatives have backed themselves into a corner by pretending the could get a better deal than they realisticly could and losing support through an unnecesary election that they did their best to lose seats in. If the deal May and company get is mediocre (and what else could it be given that the expectations set are having your cake and eating it as well) they might lose their positions due to internal conservative politics. In a sense they are incentivised to go for a no deal option. This would be horrible, but at least it looks like they made a harsh but important choice rather than just not getting a very good deal. If neither negotiator has the power or grace to make some painful concessions or have the negotiations on less than perfect terms (and neither the posturing British nor the grey eurocrats have enough power and grace for that) than negotiations are going to be a painful affair. This will harm everyone in the long run. The problem is, I don't blame the EU for not giving the negotiators such powers, the nations in it are sovereign after all, not the EU. I don't blame the British who voted labour either, I would have done the same. But the end will likely be a very mediocre deal for everyone involved.

Zontar:

Sonmi:
Equating QS with the FLQ/RIN/Nazis simply because they are all to some extent nationalist and on the Left (the non-Strasserist Nazis less so) is completely insane.

I made the initial comparison due to the fact their economic policy is completely identical to those of the Nazis and the fact their social views are basically an adlib of them with the "who" in regards to oppressed, discrimination and the like being changed, and they have their own Brownshirt's who riot in the street. The fact they are openly antisemitic and hate anglos is just icing on that cake.

The defining bit of Nazism is the super bigotry.

Saelune:

Zontar:

Sonmi:
Equating QS with the FLQ/RIN/Nazis simply because they are all to some extent nationalist and on the Left (the non-Strasserist Nazis less so) is completely insane.

I made the initial comparison due to the fact their economic policy is completely identical to those of the Nazis and the fact their social views are basically an adlib of them with the "who" in regards to oppressed, discrimination and the like being changed, and they have their own Brownshirt's who riot in the street. The fact they are openly antisemitic and hate anglos is just icing on that cake.

The defining bit of Nazism is the super bigotry.

>Antisemitism and hatred of other minorities is okay so long as you like the LGBT

This is literally your stance on this issue

Zontar:

Avnger:

2. They're anywhere to the left of the bastard child conceived by a Raygun, Thatcher, and Rand threesome.

You do realize that these people would kick Sanders out for being too right wing right? Hell as an Anglo and a Jew (double whammy in their minds) I'd probably be deported to Ontario should they come to power and make their UDI.

Now granted that won't happen since the moment they make their UDI they'd be arrested, but that's beside the point.

Right and Obama had the military running exercises in Texas practicing to take over the country and throw all conservatives into FEMA-run concentration camps. Forgive me if the amount of pure hyperbolic bs you've made up and posted on this forum simply because /pol and random idiots on youtube said it was true has shown us all that you can't exactly be taken at your word.

Zontar:

Saelune:

Zontar:

I made the initial comparison due to the fact their economic policy is completely identical to those of the Nazis and the fact their social views are basically an adlib of them with the "who" in regards to oppressed, discrimination and the like being changed, and they have their own Brownshirt's who riot in the street. The fact they are openly antisemitic and hate anglos is just icing on that cake.

The defining bit of Nazism is the super bigotry.

>Antisemitism and hatred of other minorities is okay so long as you like the LGBT

This is literally your stance on this issue

And your proof is?

Can we please discuss Brexit and not Nazis here. Yes I know UK politics isn't as interesting or as sexy as US politics but at least give us Brits something to moan and shout about.

Parasondox:
Can we please discuss Brexit and not Nazis here. Yes I know UK politics isn't as interesting or as sexy as US politics but at least give us Brits something to moan and shout about.

Technically we were arguing Canadian politics, and Canada is a subject of the British Crown.

Saelune:

Parasondox:
Can we please discuss Brexit and not Nazis here. Yes I know UK politics isn't as interesting or as sexy as US politics but at least give us Brits something to moan and shout about.

Technically we were arguing Canadian politics, and Canada is a subject of the British Crown.

A subject of the crown that is not affected by Brexit and a topic brought up by none other than "it's all the lefts fault" expert, Zontar.

Then again there is no news from our lil island so carry on the discussion. We'll be here. Waiting by the phone hoping someone remembers us.

Parasondox:

Saelune:

Parasondox:
Can we please discuss Brexit and not Nazis here. Yes I know UK politics isn't as interesting or as sexy as US politics but at least give us Brits something to moan and shout about.

Technically we were arguing Canadian politics, and Canada is a subject of the British Crown.

A subject of the crown that is not affected by Brexit and a topic brought up by none other than "it's all the lefts fault" expert, Zontar.

Then again there is no news from our lil island so carry on the discussion. We'll be here. Waiting by the phone hoping someone remembers us.

Don't worry, UK. Your favorite son (The USA) will always remember you. And then call all the islands "England" while boasting that we're 3/47ths Irish or something like that.

SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP and all that. God save the Queen, eh wot?

Let's see what they are discussing atm :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/06/britain-must-solve-problem-of-irish-border-post-brexit-say-leaked-eu-papers

A demand ? likely to inflame Brexiters ? for the UK to legislate for the ?continued protection? of special foods such as Parma ham and feta cheese, as well as French burgundy and Spanish cava. Brussels wants to ensure that more than 3,300 food and drink products are protected from British copycats after Brexit.

That will obviously only matter if there will be a trade deal. Otherwise British "copies" would not be allowed to be imported to the EU anyway. Maybe it is about goods in the British market than this would be a bargaining point. Something the EU wants and Britain has the power to grant or not.

Ensuring that any goods in transit on Brexit day would be subject to the jurisdiction of the European court of justice. In effect, British companies and the British government would be liable to fines from Brussels for breaking EU VAT and customs rules.

Seems trivial. Goods already on the way on Brexit day get a clear set of rules.

A warning to the government that it must guarantee EU data protection standards on classified EU documents. If not, the EU wants these documents erased or destroyed.

That is about replacing EU administration with British administration. Britain is not obliged any longer to keep EU secrets, but the EU is not obliged to keep British secrets either. An agreement should be possible if negotiations don't turn more nasty than they are now.

Asking Britain not to discriminate against EU companies which are carrying out state-funded infrastructure projects that began before Brexit day.

Don't really know the scale on which that matters. But again, it is about how to conclude stuff starting before Brexit and ending after Brexit in an orderly fashion. But this will probably not get through. The uncertainty about the rules after the breakup is already making sure everyone is trying to use contractors who won't need to cross a border then.

And then there is the Ireland border. I have no clue whatsoever how that is supposed to work. And the EU has no Idea either which is why it wants to discuss it now. Even if the rules break down otherwise and we get WTO rules, we still need to solve the Ireland border somehow.

Saelune:
Technically we were arguing Canadian politics, and Canada is a subject of the British Crown.

No, it isn't. Canada is subject to the Canadian Crown.

The offices of the Monarchy of Canada and Monarchy of the United Kingdom are separate and distinct. Both offices are, however, currently held by the same individual.

Agema:

Saelune:
Technically we were arguing Canadian politics, and Canada is a subject of the British Crown.

No, it isn't. Canada is subject to the Canadian Crown.

The offices of the Monarchy of Canada and Monarchy of the United Kingdom are separate and distinct. Both offices are, however, currently held by the same individual.

Getting a bit off-topic, but in nations where she's the Queen, she's officially Queen of here and other places.

"By the Grace of God, Queen of Trinidad and Tobago and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth"

Satinavian:

That will obviously only matter if there will be a trade deal. Otherwise British "copies" would not be allowed to be imported to the EU anyway.

Wait, I think you misunderstand the basis of the trade negotiation. If there is no new arrangement between the UK and the EU after Brexit, that doesn't mean that the two bodies cease to trade-- it just means that they default to World Trade Organisation rules and regulations, and trade under those instead.

Trade would continue, just under much less beneficial terms.

Zontar:

>Antisemitism and hatred of other minorities is okay so long as you like the LGBT

This is literally your stance on this issue

>I want to block out the sun, so that all life on earth will wither! Long live darkness!

This is literally your stance on this issue.

Silvanus:

Satinavian:

That will obviously only matter if there will be a trade deal. Otherwise British "copies" would not be allowed to be imported to the EU anyway.

Wait, I think you misunderstand the basis of the trade negotiation. If there is no new arrangement between the UK and the EU after Brexit, that doesn't mean that the two bodies cease to trade-- it just means that they default to World Trade Organisation rules and regulations, and trade under those instead.

Trade would continue, just under much less beneficial terms.

Yes, but normal trade rules totally allow to ban knock-off products, to protect trademarks or to demand that certain stuff must be sold under certain names. With WTO rules, Britain could make their own Burgundy and brand it as "Burgundy" and try to sell it into the world and the EU could and would simply stop it at the border and let it only in if it is rebranded as something like "British Burgundy-style wine".

Satinavian:
as well as French burgundy and Spanish cava.

My understanding is that British wine is bloody awful, so they should be safe. We do grow good hops though.

Satinavian:
Yes, but normal trade rules totally allow to ban knock-off products, to protect trademarks or to demand that certain stuff must be sold under certain names. With WTO rules, Britain could make their own Burgundy and brand it as "Burgundy" and try to sell it into the world and the EU could and would simply stop it at the border and let it only in if it is rebranded as something like "British Burgundy-style wine".

Oh, I think I misinterpreted your original point. My apologies. You're right, the nature of items with protected designation of origin could drastically change on WTO rules.

Baffle2:
My understanding is that British wine is bloody awful, so they should be safe. We do grow good hops though.

Mostly, Britain just has a bad climate for wine. However, it turns out there are a few places in the south (e.g. Kent) which are okay where it's been made viable.

Early British wines were very poor in large part because it was a case of experimenting and developing, but it's matured since then. These days, no British wine is great, but some British wines are good and just about anything you'll find in a reputable shop is at least tolerable. It's nearly all white, and if I remember rightly the best regarded ones are frequently sparkling.

Saelune:

Zontar:

Saelune:
The defining bit of Nazism is the super bigotry.

>Antisemitism and hatred of other minorities is okay so long as you like the LGBT

This is literally your stance on this issue

And your proof is?

Let it be on record, Zontar has provided no proof.

Saelune:

Zontar:

Saelune:
The defining bit of Nazism is the super bigotry.

>Antisemitism and hatred of other minorities is okay so long as you like the LGBT

This is literally your stance on this issue

And your proof is?

You're talking to the guy who thinks "jails should be run humanely and not be concentration camps" is equal to "we should get rid of jails".

Parasondox:

Saelune:

Parasondox:
Can we please discuss Brexit and not Nazis here. Yes I know UK politics isn't as interesting or as sexy as US politics but at least give us Brits something to moan and shout about.

Technically we were arguing Canadian politics, and Canada is a subject of the British Crown.

A subject of the crown that is not affected by Brexit and a topic brought up by none other than "it's all the lefts fault" expert, Zontar.

Then again there is no news from our lil island so carry on the discussion. We'll be here. Waiting by the phone hoping someone remembers us.

Apologies. My stance on Brexit as an Irish person mostly revolves around the border. I remember Jonathan Pie saying things aren't going to go back to the Troubles that we're not all just waiting for an excuse to kill each other. To that I say take a trip to Belfast. There's plenty of people looking for an excuse on both sides. And now the UK's official stance seems to be "loyalists did nothing wrong ever". So that's fun.

On the other hand please keep tanking your currency. It was already cheaper for me to get games on Amazon and now it's gotten even cheaper still.

Agema:
It's nearly all white, and if I remember rightly the best regarded ones are frequently sparkling.

White wine is much easier to make than red, and you can make a pretty good sparkling white using rhubarb as a base rather than grapes (rhubarb in wine doesn't really taste of much, just provides the sugar for the alcohol and adds a bit of sweetness). Similar to brewers who over-hop ales to cover poor flavours (by, weirdly, adding more unpleasantness), making the wine sparkling helps cover up it not actually being great wine. That said, I'll drink sparkling wine, but I really don't like white wine.

Silvanus:

realJeremyP:
I compared the QS to the FLQ. A terrorist organization. A terrorist organization that used to put bombs in anglophone's mailboxes.

What have the QS done to draw this comparison with a terrorist organisation?

They believe a lot of the same fundamental things, and the party is made up of people with radical political beliefs. They're the Quebec bolsheviks.

Avnger:

realJeremyP:
A terrorist organization that used to put bombs in anglophone's mailboxes.

I had thought there would be more than one anglophone in the entirety of Quebec. The More You Know, I guess.

Silvanus:

realJeremyP:
I compared the QS to the FLQ. A terrorist organization. A terrorist organization that used to put bombs in anglophone's mailboxes.

What have the QS done to draw this comparison with a terrorist organisation?

Pretty simple:

1. They're not WASPs.
2. They're anywhere to the left of the bastard child conceived by a Raygun, Thatcher, and Rand threesome.

See Barrack "Secret Muslim Terrorist" Obama for another example.

1. WASP? I'm the W and nothing else.
2. I was a member of the NDP until 2012.

Sonmi:

realJeremyP:
The QS is very much Nazi. They are really a small leap from the FLQ. Anglophones were a targeted minority at one point in Quebec. I'm not trying to speak for anyone but myself, but a bomb in my mailbox isn't my idea of a good time.

This whole "The Anglophone were a targeted minority" spiel is complete reactionary BS that came with the French population taking back control from an Anglo-dominated society, the most noteworthy thing either the FLQ or the RIN ever did was the murder of Pierre Laporte, it's peanuts, and they haven't been relevant in forever.

Equating QS with the FLQ/RIN/Nazis simply because they are all to some extent nationalist and on the Left (the non-Strasserist Nazis less so) is completely insane. If you really wanted to make a comparison with another political entity, Sinn Fein would be it, but even then it'd be extremely unflattering and unfair to QS.

Go cry some more, Mordecai Richler, scaremongers like you are the reason why my family was scared of immigrating to Montreal.

Two referendums on sovereignty, Martine Oullet blabbering about how everyone in Quebec should speak French, Gilles Duceppe never said that. They, like every other sovereignty party bury their heads in the sand and pretend that Quebec as a nation could actually work with any level of success compared to what they have now.

Reactionary? Yes, most people do react to bombs in mailboxes, stock exchanges being blown up, foreign trade commissioners being kidnapped and cabinet ministers being killed.

realJeremyP:
They believe a lot of the same fundamental things, and the party is made up of people with radical political beliefs. They're the Quebec bolsheviks.

So, they don't employ the same methodology.

What a sickening comparison, then.

Silvanus:

realJeremyP:
They believe a lot of the same fundamental things, and the party is made up of people with radical political beliefs. They're the Quebec bolsheviks.

So, they don't employ the same methodology.

What a sickening comparison, then.

They are supported by and support our local Antifa, who are terrorists, so no, the comparison isn't sickening, it's accurate.

Zontar:

They are supported by and support our local Antifa, who are terrorists, so no, the comparison isn't sickening, it's accurate.

Comparing even violent protest with goddamn terrorism is still sickening. This is putting aside for a moment that the party itself isn't actually guilty of the actions anyway, and that this is guilt-by-association.

This is political point-scoring at its utter, utter worst.

Silvanus:

Comparing even violent protest with goddamn terrorism is still sickening.

You really aren't aware of the things Antifa does do you? Rioting is just the stuff we get flashy videos of, you don't see the random acts of violence outside those events (mainly because randomly recording someone throwing a Molotov cocktail through a store window at 2am just isn't a thing people will do), and that's before we even get to the fact that their goal is openly and explicitly to commit acts of terrorism that if only a tenth where even attempted the crisis we faced after the FLQ would look like nothing. The only positive out of that I can think of (apart from Antifa being crushed, but that goes without saying) is the fact I'd get to experience seeing a tank roll down an otherwise empty Saint-Catherine's instead of reading about it with a photo of a tank that is not one of our own that was not taken in Quebec in a textbook made by someone who didn't even bother going beyond a Google search for an image of a tank.

This is putting aside for a moment that the party itself isn't actually guilty of the actions anyway, and that this is guilt-by-association.

Given how the leader of the party saw his daughter arrested due to her actions while a member of Antifa during the student riots of 2012, and given the fact that the party's leadership openly endorses Antifa and its tactics, it's like trying to separate the Nazis from the Brownshirts.

This is political point-scoring at its utter, utter worst.

No political point-scoring is pretending that in defiance of the very meaning of the words they are somehow not Nazi because unlike 99% of the other policies that overlap with the Nazis they are pro-LGBT instead of anti-LGBT, that Antifa are not terrorist despite fitting literally all criteria or that the explicit connection the two have doesn't exist just because they happen to be in the same wing of politics as the person trying to claim all this.

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