Brexit Negotiations

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 NEXT
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/09/david-davis-complains-of-eu-discrimination-in-leaked-letter

David Davis's claim in a leaked letter to the prime minister that the EU is discriminating against the UK and damaging its economic interests by preparing for a no-deal scenario in March 2019 has been met with flat denials and accusations of hypocrisy in Brussels.

The European commission's chief spokesman, Margaritis Schinas, expressed surprise at the content of the letter and insisted it was only natural for the bloc to prepare for a situation threatened repeatedly by Downing Street.
...
In response, Schinas told reporters in Brussels: "Here in the European commission we are somehow surprised that the UK is surprised that we are preparing for a scenario announced by the UK government itself.

"After all, it was PM May herself who said in her Lancaster House speech in January 2017 and repeated in her Florence speech in September that, and I quote: 'No deal is better than a bad deal for Britain. It is right that the government should prepare for every eventuality'.

"We take these words from the prime minister very seriously. It is therefore only natural that in this house we also prepare for every eventuality."

How dare the EU prepare for a scenario the UK government states it might create. You couldn't make this up.

warmachine:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/09/david-davis-complains-of-eu-discrimination-in-leaked-letter

David Davis's claim in a leaked letter to the prime minister that the EU is discriminating against the UK and damaging its economic interests by preparing for a no-deal scenario in March 2019 has been met with flat denials and accusations of hypocrisy in Brussels.

The European commission's chief spokesman, Margaritis Schinas, expressed surprise at the content of the letter and insisted it was only natural for the bloc to prepare for a situation threatened repeatedly by Downing Street.
...
In response, Schinas told reporters in Brussels: "Here in the European commission we are somehow surprised that the UK is surprised that we are preparing for a scenario announced by the UK government itself.

"After all, it was PM May herself who said in her Lancaster House speech in January 2017 and repeated in her Florence speech in September that, and I quote: 'No deal is better than a bad deal for Britain. It is right that the government should prepare for every eventuality'.

"We take these words from the prime minister very seriously. It is therefore only natural that in this house we also prepare for every eventuality."

How dare the EU prepare for a scenario the UK government states it might create. You couldn't make this up.

Its because they weren't allowed to prep for a potential Brexit during the referendum, so they naturally assumed that other countries wouldn't prep for the outcome they don't want either.

I am so embarrassed to have these fools representing me on the international stage, they are making a mockery of Britain. Thank god for Trump or we'd be the laughing stock of the world rather than just Europe.

So is it just me or are there other Irish, Scottish and Welsh thinking "England used to be smarter than this right?" It's getting pretty embarrassing that we lost to these guys.

CheetoDust:
So is it just me or are there other Irish, Scottish and Welsh thinking "England used to be smarter than this right?" It's getting pretty embarrassing that we lost to these guys.

On the bright side, people finally get to see what the English are really like.

Bobular:

I am so embarrassed to have these fools representing me on the international stage, they are making a mockery of Britain. Thank god for Trump or we'd be the laughing stock of the world rather than just Europe.

Just wait until the crashout occurs if it does.

Honestly, I find Brexit to be far more idiotic than Trump. At least with the Trump election there's a definable result of some definition.

CheetoDust:
So is it just me or are there other Irish, Scottish and Welsh thinking "England used to be smarter than this right?" It's getting pretty embarrassing that we lost to these guys.

Oh, I don't know. Ten times as much population and money can more than make up for a lot of stupidity.

It's almost like conservatives in the US and the UK are staring across the pond at each other playing the "penis game" except instead of shouting "penis," they're fucking over their own citizens and becoming laughingstocks internationally.

Ninjamedic:

CheetoDust:
So is it just me or are there other Irish, Scottish and Welsh thinking "England used to be smarter than this right?" It's getting pretty embarrassing that we lost to these guys.

On the bright side, people finally get to see what the English are really like..

Another good one is how the reason Brexit is good is that sovereignty is super important then Varadker turns around and makes some innocuous comment about how he'd like a united Ireland sometime in the future as long as it had massive support from both sides of the border and the Brits are acting like he's some raging nationalist who can't be truste. It genuinely baffles them that the world doesn't bend over backwards to give them everything they want no matter what it costs everyone else.

CheetoDust:

Ninjamedic:

On the bright side, people finally get to see what the English are really like..

Another good one is how the reason Brexit is good is that sovereignty is super important then Varadker turns around and makes some innocuous comment about how he'd like a united Ireland sometime in the future as long as it had massive support from both sides of the border and the Brits are acting like he's some raging nationalist who can't be truste. It genuinely baffles them that the world doesn't bend over backwards to give them everything they want no matter what it costs everyone else.

The problem that the Brexiters have is that (as a group) they were always, from the word go, unrealistic. They always believed that they had the advantage over the EU, and they would get to have their cake and eat it.

Now it is becoming increasingly clear that this was their fantasy, they prefer to double down and blame everyone else to pretend the mess somehow isn't their own fault, and a large dollop of hypcorisy isn't going to stop that.

Agema:

The problem that the Brexiters have is that (as a group) they were always, from the word go, unrealistic. They always believed that they had the advantage over the EU, and they would get to have their cake and eat it.

Now it is becoming increasingly clear that this was their fantasy, they prefer to double down and blame everyone else to pretend the mess somehow isn't their own fault, and a large dollop of hypcorisy isn't going to stop that.

My favourite is when they jump up and down and say 'They need us more than we need them', and then complain that the EU is deliberately punishing the UK by making any deal a bad deal. Not sure it can work both ways. I'm also a fan of the spittle-coated 'Just walk away! Just walk away!'

Baffle2:

My favourite is when they jump up and down and say 'They need us more than we need them', and then complain that the EU is deliberately punishing the UK by making any deal a bad deal. Not sure it can work both ways. I'm also a fan of the spittle-coated 'Just walk away! Just walk away!'

I think if the EU has been clear about any intentions and beliefs about a Brexit deal, it's that "No deal is the bad deal". They are, I think, a happy and willing partner to constructive negotiations. But they are so with very strict "red lines" which the UK's desires run right across.

I imagine it as a little like a suit shop: you can have a complete llama hair suit, a complete wool suit, or a complete polyester suit, or no suit at all. (And then after that you dicker over the shirt and other accessories.) But the UK wants a llama hair jacket with wool waistcoat and polyester trousers. Unfortunately, the shop just ain't offering that combo and doesn't really need the UK's custom anything like as much as the UK needs a suit.

Agema:
I imagine it as a little like a suit shop: you can have a complete llama hair suit, a complete wool suit, or a complete polyester suit, or no suit at all. (And then after that you dicker over the shirt and other accessories.) But the UK wants a llama hair jacket with wool waistcoat and polyester trousers. Unfortunately, the shop just ain't offering that combo and doesn't really need the UK's custom anything like as much as the UK needs a suit.

Suitably, what the UK wants to wear is a terrible combo - the polyester trousers are going to build up massive static as the UK's thighs rub together, and that's going to make the llama hair jacket look ridiculously fluffy. I'm sure there's an analogy in there somewhere that involves the rest of the EU (we can still say that) laughing at us.

Is the problem of Brexit that the UK fundamentally doesn't understand Capitalism? The only person who gets a good deal is the one with the power. That why we have an alternate power structure called government as a check against this power (like, it doesn't work becuase their economically captured but the premise is there). The U.K. Is deciding to give up its power and thus anyone can run roughshod over them. There is nothing special about the UK to give them a market advantage.

There was talk sometime around March last year that Brexiteers were expecting that Commonwealth countries would pick up the slack from the EU. Though I haven't heard anything about that since, and I can't see Britain being able to really get what it wants since they'd be crawling to us, putting the Commonwealth in the dominant negotiating position. Hell, this ABC article from March 2017 flat out said that if Britain were to try to make a deal with Australia, some officials think we'd be in the position to bargain hard for a deal that more in our favour.

trunkage:
Is the problem of Brexit that the UK fundamentally doesn't understand Capitalism? The only person who gets a good deal is the one with the power. That why we have an alternate power structure called government as a check against this power (like, it doesn't work becuase their economically captured but the premise is there). The U.K. Is deciding to give up its power and thus anyone can run roughshod over them. There is nothing special about the UK to give them a market advantage.

Well, I don't think and the EU negotiators don't seem to think that negotiations need to be a zero sum game. Peace and security in Northern Ireland and easy trade between the UK and the EU are good for both. The thing that I find most painful to see in these negotiations is that the Brits keep shooting themselves in the foot with their rethoric of having their cake and eating it too and complaining about unfairness from the EU side. That just moves the negotiations into a winner/loser situation that the UK will not win. Or even more likely, a loser/loser situation where both sides have to content with a hard border through Ireland, more expensive trade and soured intra-European relations. Ultimately though, it seems that the negotiations are moving ahead allong continental lines and that the end result will be mediocre but not a complete no deal scenario.

Major Tom:
There was talk sometime around March last year that Brexiteers were expecting that Commonwealth countries would pick up the slack from the EU.

Unlikely.

Commonwealth countries are overwhelmingly a) poor and/or b) far away. This makes them very poor trade partners. It is in fact why the UK joined the EU in the first place: because it could not make enough money through privileged economic access to its poor, ex-imperial possessions.

A vital rule of trade is that countries trade proportionately far more with close places than distant ones: it's not just the transport costs, but a lot about mutual positions and interactions, awareness, ease of forging links, etc. After that, why do people think India or South Africa are going to give the UK some sort of "mates rates", as if they owe us a favour or don't have any ambitions to profit from us?

It's nothing but the stupid, hazily nostalgic notions of some Brits who think Commonwealth countries are going to give up their national interest just to buy some British... whatever it is this country even makes any more. Potentially because they're also the deluded ones who think the empire was a grand project to make the world a better place and all our ex-colonies kind of appreciated us for it.

Major Tom:
There was talk sometime around March last year that Brexiteers were expecting that Commonwealth countries would pick up the slack from the EU. Though I haven't heard anything about that since, and I can't see Britain being able to really get what it wants since they'd be crawling to us, putting the Commonwealth in the dominant negotiating position. Hell, this ABC article from March 2017 flat out said that if Britain were to try to make a deal with Australia, some officials think we'd be in the position to bargain hard for a deal that more in our favour.

You'd have to answer some questions about why getting a 'better' deal with Australia is a good idea. Australia exports rocks and food. Is England really planning on revitalising it industrial sector? It cant compete with the rest of the world. China pays a lot for both major exports. Tariffs aren't that high, so O don't know what advantage you can get there. Australia is 24 million people. EU is (currently) just over 500 mil. Selling to Australia doesn't make sense when the market is so small compared to the EU. There are lots of regulations in Australia, so those costs will still be imposed.

But then, since the UK is twice the size, it might be able to squeeze something special out of Australia

Addendum_Forthcoming is far more knowledgeable about Australia's international trade than I am. Though since Australia has shifted focus to China and South East Asia from the 80's (AFAIK, I was like, under 10 during the Hawke years. I was too busy worrying about Transformers and Ninja Turtles instead of international politics) and done rather well out if it, so I would be hard pressed to find a reason to give England a deal that preferences them over our existing arrangements. Maybe if they promise a price drop on Games Workshop models?

Anyway, the point appears to be moot as the proposal seems to have died almost as soon as it was put forward.

So I'm hearing that now Downing Streer is insisting that the UK will leave the EU customs union.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42938672

I am aware that's got something to do with the NI and RoI border, but I'm not entirely sure of what the implications of this is. Some of you Poms explain for me?

Major Tom:
I am aware that's got something to do with the NI and RoI border, but I'm not entirely sure of what the implications of this is. Some of you Poms explain for me?

Who knows what the fuck the UK government actually wants or is going to get? No-one. Not parliament, not the EU, not a single UK citizen nor as far as I can tell even the government. After all, they've come out with so many pronouncements, virtually none of which have survived. Their words could be on the swirling airs and flowing waters writ.

Basically, if they do leave the customs union, then there has to be a means of allowing goods and people to (relatively) freely pass between NI and Ireland, but not between the rest of the UK and rest of the EU. Some sort of credible mechanism must have been proposed to and provisionally okayed by the EU last year, but I don't think the details are public domain yet.

Major Tom:
So I'm hearing that now Downing Street is insisting that the UK will leave the EU customs union.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42938672

I am aware that's got something to do with the NI and RoI border, but I'm not entirely sure of what the implications of this is. Some of you Poms explain for me?

If goods and produce grown, manufactured and imported into NI aren't regulated by EU customs regulations, the RoI must inspect them before they enter. That is, the NI/RoI border must become a customs border instead of the current open border. All sides insist this border must be kept open.

How can this contradiction be resolved?
The RoI break EU law - no.
The RoI leaves the EU customs union and creates a customs union with the UK - don't make me laugh.
NI remains in the CU but not the rest of the UK - already proposed but vetoed by the Democratic Unionist party.
NI goods are technologically tagged, can freely enter RoI but are blocked from entering the rest of the EU - already proposed and thrown out because no such technology exists and would create an intra-EU border.
The UK remain in the CU after all - possible, creating unrest in the ruling Conservative party, then Conservative moderate MPs make May the scapegoat and elect a new leader.
Both UK and EU agree to a third-party, independent regulatory authority, making a new, independent customs union - political fantasy.
The UK follows a 'third-party', regulatory authority actually governed entirely by the EU - possible, creating mild unrest in the ruling Conservative party, then Conservative moderate MPs make May the scapegoat and elect a new leader.

There you go, Downing Street are either lying about an open border, lying about leaving the CU, or are planning to create a pathetic lie.

Everyday, my browser starts with an automated, randomly selected (apparently) newsfeed, but when it comes specifically to brexit articles and updates, there is only one publication that seems to crop up with them, and they do so very very regularly with a childish fervour and panicked passion for brexit in each headline so intense it actually hurts inside to read and think of all those who follow that publication for their pro-brexit validation. They must be heading the front-lines of the brexit battalion all the way to the bitter end.
I mean, these articles are...well...

UK's top polling guru SHUTS DOWN second referendum claims and says Brexit would still WIN

Lord Lawson says THIS is what Theresa May has to do to obtain 'HUGE benefits' of Brexit

Brexit will RUIN Germany as UK taxpayers stop funding EU coffers - say Germans

Brexiteer says Treasury WAS 'pro-EU' but won't BACK Rees-Mogg's 'fiddling figures' claim

Rees-Mogg LEADS the charge for a REAL Brexit deal with this point May MUST listen to

'Remaniac-in-Chief' Lord Adonis SAVAGED by Hartley-Brewer for attempt to THWART Brexit

'Brexit saboteurs will be DEFEATED' Key House of Lords figures DESTROY Remainer hopes

'Brexit is NOT inevitable!' Lib Dem leader INSISTS Brexit can STILL be stopped

'Italy will be first to break ranks' Brussels MUTINY - EU states DEMAND 'pragmatic Brexit'

The Treasury must stop trying to undermine Brexit - EXPRESS COMMENT

Labour Remainer Benn's attempts to thwart Brexit DESTROYED with BRILLIANT rebuttal

Eastern countries WILL PAY more to EU for 11.5billion(pounds) Brexit shortfall

'You're afraid to say customs union!' Marr DESTROYS Remainer Rudd over soft-Brexit talk

'We're behind her!' Brexiteer RUBBISHES Theresa May coup claims

May's Brexit war cabinet ready to thrash out customs union compromise

Remainer academic A C Grayling claims 'only philosopher who'd support Brexit was a Nazi'

Leftie thugs 'bullied' Rees-Mogg but witness reveals the Brexiteer had BRILLIANT response

WATCH: Tim Lovejoy awkwardly SHUTS DOWN Alastair Campbell to stop anti-Brexit rant

Piers Morgan likens Theresa May to CRISP PACKET during very bizarre Brexit swipe

'80 hooligans surrounded me' Farage reveals the disturbing attack 'that changed my life'

Ex-head of civil service defends, er, civil service against mauling by Rees-Mogg

Eastern Europeans 10 TIMES faster than young team of MOANING Brits at picking cabbages

Britain will 'categorically' LEAVE the customs union, May confirms ahead of Barnier talks

'Respect OUR red lines!' Barnier's warning shot to UK as he heads to London to meet Davis

He's WRONG! Amber Rudd BLASTS Jacob Rees-Mogg for his SHOCK Treasury claims

Pound LIVE: Sterling steady as No.10 promises UK is 'categorically leaving' customs union

UK's economic 'spirit' returns despite best efforts of 'Project Fear propagandists'

May to be 'ousted by Brexit dream team of Boris, Mogg and Gove' if she fails Brexit test

EU regulation costs 'will double to 240 billion(pounds) annually AFTER Brexit'

Jacob Rees-Mogg claims 'civil servants are anti-Brexit'

Jacob Rees-Mogg WARNS against 'grave error' of 'fudging Brexit' as he tops leadership race

Brexiteers TERRIFIED as it is revealed there is 'NO PLAN B' if UK cannot strike trade deal

Rees-Mogg refuses to back down on SHOCK claim Treasury is 'FIDDLING figures' on Brexit

Brexit news: EU push for UK to switch from British Summer Time to BERLIN TIME!

PEOPLE POWER: 1000s sign petition to force Government NOT to cave in to EU Brexit demands

Treasury civil servants ARE biased against Brexit! Tory MP BACKS Rees-Mogg claim

So aggressively defensive.

And why these are the only brexit articles being randomly selected is beyond me, but is this really the type of maturity we're dealing with here from now on? It appears they're still pushing for Mogg, that's...a thing now.

There's always the Evening Standard. The occasional vitriol - far more subtle than the headlines above - towards May and Brexit can be funny.

Xsjadoblayde:
It appears they're still pushing for Mogg, that's...a thing now.

Yeah. There's a lot of talk about May being ousted and Mogg being the favourite to replace her. But I think she's actually very safe... until the end of March 2019. Then she's gone. I highly doubt any Con MP will replace her before then because none of them, even the brexiteers, want to be the one who fucked up Brexit. So for now they'll take plenty of pot shots at her and tell her shes doing it wrong, with out proposing anything new, so they can get their media coverage up until they're ready to kick her out.

Xsjadoblayde:
Everyday, my browser starts with an automated, randomly selected (apparently) newsfeed

Nah, it's not random, it's algorithm fed if it's anything like my phone. Which means you click on a couple of random crazy articles for a laugh / out of disbelief, you wind up down a whole rabbit hole of them.

Which is why even news aggregators are terrible for getting a good balanced view of the news.

spartandude:

Xsjadoblayde:
It appears they're still pushing for Mogg, that's...a thing now.

Yeah. There's a lot of talk about May being ousted and Mogg being the favourite to replace her. But I think she's actually very safe... until the end of March 2019. Then she's gone. I highly doubt any Con MP will replace her before then because none of them, even the brexiteers, want to be the one who fucked up Brexit. So for now they'll take plenty of pot shots at her and tell her shes doing it wrong, with out proposing anything new, so they can get their media coverage up until they're ready to kick her out.

Although politically, it makes sense what the Tories are doing, May is a dead woman walking and since Brexit is a disaster waiting to happen, might as well let her soak up all the blame for everything that goes wrong.

Although I hate the thought of someone like Mogg becoming PM and I can't take him seriously since he looks and sounds like an adult version of Walter from Dennis the Menace.

Kitsune Hunter:
Although politically, it makes sense what the Tories are doing, May is a dead woman walking and since Brexit is a disaster waiting to happen, might as well let her soak up all the blame for everything that goes wrong.

You know, that does make sense now I think about it. I was certain the knives would have been out for May after that disaster of an election last year. But now they can say she double fucked up as justification for chucking the carcass of her career in the Thames when Brexit goes even more pear-shaped than it already it.

Catnip1024:
Nah, it's not random, it's algorithm fed if it's anything like my phone. Which means you click on a couple of random crazy articles for a laugh / out of disbelief, you wind up down a whole rabbit hole of them.

Actually, it's potentially worse than that. Some companies' algorithms preferentially select extreme, outrageous and inflammatory content even if you haven't clicked on them, because the data feeding those algorithms show they're more likely to incite views. And that includes massively major players like YouTube.

spartandude:
Yeah. There's a lot of talk about May being ousted and Mogg being the favourite to replace her.

I don't think anyone will actually accept that hopelessly archaic prat as leader of the Tory party. He's got appeal in the sense of being an amusing/accentric sideshow, but I seriously doubt he'd survive the harsh glare of party leader. I mean, when people think nostalgically about the past, they mean the 1950-1960s, not the 1850-1860s.

May survives because there is no-one to replace her. Neither the soft nor hard wing of the Tory party will accept a partisan candidate from the other side to take the country through it, and May has the advantage of seeming neutral-ish. I suspect giving her the push would cause the parliamentary party to implode and force a general election whilst they'd be in a state of disarray.

A Brexiter would probably win if push came to shove, because the final vote belongs with the fusty over-60s who comprise the party membership and are highly Europhobic. But I don't think Brexiters truly want to run the show, because if - as is widely feared - it turns out badly, they will have nowhere to hide. At least if they're not conspicuously overseeing it, they can claim they were undermined by [insert scapegoat here]

Xsjadoblayde:
Brexit will RUIN Germany as UK taxpayers stop funding EU coffers - say Germans

That has got to be the most delusional one of the bunch. Germany will be just fine. There will be an increase in EU taxes or decrease in their spending as a result of the British leaving. They are a net contrinutor and a fairly large country after all. The gap left will be just large enough for it to be a painful inconvenience in budgetting terms but it won't significantly damage the EU, and why it would ruin Germany is beyond me.

spartandude:

Xsjadoblayde:
It appears they're still pushing for Mogg, that's...a thing now.

Yeah. There's a lot of talk about May being ousted and Mogg being the favourite to replace her. But I think she's actually very safe... until the end of March 2019. Then she's gone. I highly doubt any Con MP will replace her before then because none of them, even the brexiteers, want to be the one who fucked up Brexit. So for now they'll take plenty of pot shots at her and tell her shes doing it wrong, with out proposing anything new, so they can get their media coverage up until they're ready to kick her out.

It seems these guys and girls can't be trusted. Even amongst their own party they seem to be waiting for the right moment to stab their leader in the back. I've heard Corbyn has had similar problems in his own party. I get that this also has to do with different wings within the parties since Britain has two major parties who try to cover more of the political spectrum than you'd see in other systems but still, this seems rather unstable to me.

Pseudonym:
I've heard Corbyn has had similar problems in his own party.

Yeah, just after the Brexit vote. Almost all Labour MPs tried to force him to resign but he didnt which meant there was a leadership vote which he once again one, strengthening his position as leader. Essentially he just went "strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Agema:

Catnip1024:
Nah, it's not random, it's algorithm fed if it's anything like my phone. Which means you click on a couple of random crazy articles for a laugh / out of disbelief, you wind up down a whole rabbit hole of them.

Actually, it's potentially worse than that. Some companies' algorithms preferentially select extreme, outrageous and inflammatory content even if you haven't clicked on them, because the data feeding those algorithms show they're more likely to incite views. And that includes massively major players like YouTube.

Yeah, led to believe that Youtube would select pro-Trump videos before the election over pro-Clinton ones, presumably for the same reason.

Pseudonym:

Xsjadoblayde:
Brexit will RUIN Germany as UK taxpayers stop funding EU coffers - say Germans

That has got to be the most delusional one of the bunch. Germany will be just fine. There will be an increase in EU taxes or decrease in their spending as a result of the British leaving. They are a net contrinutor and a fairly large country after all. The gap left will be just large enough for it to be a painful inconvenience in budgetting terms but it won't significantly damage the EU, and why it would ruin Germany is beyond me.

I am perpetually fascinated by the mindsets of Britons who think that the EU can't scrape together E10-15 billion out of a combined economy of ~E15 trillion. To put it in context, that's about 0.1% GDP, or a shade over 0.2% of EU governmental spending. At worst, it's an irritation.

Not only that, but surely when (if) the UK crashes itself out of economic unity, UK goods will be hit by increased tariffs. These tariffs will be paid into the coffers of EU governments. The UK exports about E300 billion to the EU. A modest 5% average tariff - not far off a lot of WTO baselines - would mean ~E15 billion going to EU governments - very similar the UK's contribution to the EU budget. Broadly, it cancels out.

So this situation would shake out roughly neutral to EU central and national governments, a net positive to the UK government, and negative to UK and EU businesses (who pay the tariffs), who'll pass it on to customers. Although once diffused across the whole EU population, it'll be pretty small.

I have 2 very simple questions to ask here about Brexit.

1. Do you think the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland will be better off as a independent state should Brexit succeeds, if so explain why?

2. Do you think the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland should remain a client state of the European Union and will be better off remaining as such, if so explain why?

Agema:
I don't think anyone will actually accept that hopelessly archaic prat as leader of the Tory party. He's got appeal in the sense of being an amusing/accentric sideshow, but I seriously doubt he'd survive the harsh glare of party leader. I mean, when people think nostalgically about the past, they mean the 1950-1960s, not the 1850-1860s.

Now, I despise the guy, and I despise the prospect of having to choose between him and Jeremy Corbyn at a future election...

But I have heard a worrying number of people warming to him, as a serious leader. I mean, I don't see how or why. Possibly because all the other options are equally abysmal. But they exist.

Samtemdo8:
I have 2 very simple questions to ask here about Brexit.

1. Do you think the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland will be better off as a independent state should Brexit succeeds, if so explain why?

Well, it is already an "independent state" within the European Union; the Union is a largely economic and regulatory body, with very minimal (or tangential) impact on British law.

That said, I do not think it will be better off outside of the European Union. The loss of the single market and Customs Union would make trade with the UK quite onerous, and potentially costly, if there are close alternatives-- which there are, within the EU. The Conservative Party has threatened to make the UK a low-regulation, low-corporation-tax haven in order to attract businesses, which I think would be almost catastrophic for both social mobility and public funding. This would be another severe threat to the NHS and other sectors in dire need of investment.

Samtemdo8:

2. Do you think the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland should remain a client state of the European Union and will be better off remaining as such, if so explain why?

That depends. What do you mean by "client state"?

Catnip1024:
and I despise the prospect of having to choose between him and Jeremy Corbyn at a future election...

Out of interest, what is it you find so objectionable about Jeremy Corbyn?

To be clear, I have some (fairly major) disagreements with the man as well. Yet, relatively, he's a fairly moderate centre-left politician, who has fielded nothing terribly left-field as far as European social democracy goes. The pearl-clutching reaction to him in the British press as been nothing short of ludicrous, and illustrates to me only that the centre in British politics has lurched severely to the right since 1997.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here