Boy Scouts to allow girls, starting in 2018

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Pseudonym:
I don't really know what the scouts do. Playing in the woods apparently. I think getting rid of the gender segregation here is a good thing.

CM156:
Well, many of these scouting groups run through churches or other religious organizations, who don't want teenage boys and girls together in the woods with low amounts of adult supervision.

Do these people believe they'll prevent these teenagers' having sex? I mean it might work in some cases but I doubt it'll work all that often. More importantly I don't see why you would want to do that to begin with. Now you've succeeded in denying your teenagers a good time. What did that accomplish? Just tell them to use a condom and do it with consent from both parties and leave them to figure out the rest. That seems like a more healthy and realistic approach.

More that it prevents it from happening in a situation where they might have some legal liability for what goes on.

Gorfias:
EDIT: About the baggage. And my thoughts and feelings sure as hell don't seem healthy. But the concerns I reference, in a world were "man spreading" is a thing and cat calling in France may soon violate criminal law? Etc. My advice to men and boys: be vigilant.

So you're panicking over shit that hasn't actually happened and is mostly just women asking you to stop being a rude bastard?

Gorfias:

In the Manosphere.

As a man... ???????

Gorfias:

Can't find the particular youtube video I watched about it today but it brought up concerns of mine when I first heard this was happening.

I mean this in my most non-sarcastic way possible: you really need to stop watching these conspiracy youtube videos and taking their conclusions as truth mate. This is definitely not the first (or second) time you've brought up videos that might as well be about flat earth theory for all of their evidence and logic based approach. It truly poisons your worldview with nonsense.

Gorfias:
There is a huge concern out there that women want/have always wanted to shut down communication by men to men. That they are invading male spaces to keep them from talking to each other.

What is a "male space?" What communications "man to man" would be eliminated and couldn't be had anywhere?

Gorfias:

An early example:

https://www.gopetition.com/famous-petitions-in-history/232/the-women-s-petition-against-coffee-1674.html

Ostensbily anti coffee, the Manosphere thinks it actually anti-male communicating together.

You're going to have to connect the dots on that one. You might as well be claiming the petition is "ostensibly anti-coffee but really wants to replace all textbooks used in primary school with the Twilight series."

Gorfias:

The video worried that not only was a male space being invaded (I'm hesitant to agree with this: The Boy Scouts are hemorrhaging membership. This may have been done to bolster it).

Again, "male space" and "invaded?"

Gorfias:

Another issue the video brought up I didn't think about: will female membership mean that the boys start getting lectured in "toxic masculinity". Etc.

... you do understand that the concept of "toxic masculinity" largely has to do with societal concepts that are harmful to men, right? God forbid that the idea of being able to share feelings with each other (aka that communication you seem worried about) and not having to be the most macho man ever alive be introduced into an organization that is about partly about teaching boys how to lead a healthy life emotionally, physically, and morally.

Gorfias:
I worry that boy's may still need a male space to just be themselves.

What can boys do in a "male space" that they can't do with girls around? I say this as someone who made it to Life Scout (before my troop kind of crumbled apart; no Eagle for me =/).

CM156:

Pseudonym:
I don't really know what the scouts do. Playing in the woods apparently. I think getting rid of the gender segregation here is a good thing.

CM156:
Well, many of these scouting groups run through churches or other religious organizations, who don't want teenage boys and girls together in the woods with low amounts of adult supervision.

Do these people believe they'll prevent these teenagers' having sex? I mean it might work in some cases but I doubt it'll work all that often. More importantly I don't see why you would want to do that to begin with. Now you've succeeded in denying your teenagers a good time. What did that accomplish? Just tell them to use a condom and do it with consent from both parties and leave them to figure out the rest. That seems like a more healthy and realistic approach.

More that it prevents it from happening in a situation where they might have some legal liability for what goes on.

You're already letting a pack of kids go off in the woods with low amounts of adult supervision...

BeetleManiac:

Gorfias:
EDIT: About the baggage. And my thoughts and feelings sure as hell don't seem healthy. But the concerns I reference, in a world were "man spreading" is a thing and cat calling in France may soon violate criminal law? Etc. My advice to men and boys: be vigilant.

So you're panicking over shit that hasn't actually happened and is mostly just women asking you to stop being a rude bastard?

Oh, that's right. Because concern about men's issues is misogyny. (Sarcasm).

Avnger:

What is a "male space?" What communications "man to man" would be eliminated and couldn't be had anywhere?

If you haven't experienced it, I couldn't explain it to you.

... you do understand that the concept of "toxic masculinity" largely has to do with societal concepts that are harmful to men, right? God forbid that the idea of being able to share feelings with each other (aka that communication you seem worried about) and not having to be the most macho man ever alive be introduced into an organization that is about partly about teaching boys how to lead a healthy life emotionally, physically, and morally.

I disagree. I think it is about something a lot more sinister. (See youtube videos on the subject). Kidding. Not really.

Gorfias:
Oh, that's right. Because concern about men's issues is misogyny. (Sarcasm).

Hey man, I'm not the one cowering in a corner every time a woman asks me to not scratch my nuts in public.

If you haven't experienced it, I couldn't explain it to you.

Either that or you're just making shit up. Or you're parroting talking points given to you by other people and you have no idea what any of them mean, you just know that you mean them.

I disagree. I think it is about something a lot more sinister.

You think a lot of things in the world are sinister conspiracies against you personally.

BeetleManiac:

Gorfias:
Oh, that's right. Because concern about men's issues is misogyny. (Sarcasm).

Hey man, I'm not the one cowering in a corner every time a woman asks me to not scratch my nuts in public.

If you haven't experienced it, I couldn't explain it to you.

Either that or you're just making shit up. Or you're parroting talking points given to you by other people and you have no idea what any of them mean, you just know that you mean them.

I disagree. I think it is about something a lot more sinister.

You think a lot of things in the world are sinister conspiracies against you personally.

Some MRAs gathered to talk about men being 4-5 times as likely to kill themselves as women. 10 times as likely to be homeless. And more. To talk about men's rights. This is the response:

Some more

Scouts are still a thing?

And they should just call it Kid Scouts or something.

Gorfias:
Some MRAs gathered to talk about men being 4-5 times as likely to kill themselves as women. 10 times as likely to be homeless. And more. To talk about men's rights. This is the response:

Some more

Ah, those old chestnuts. There is no petty slight that MRAs will not elevate to the status of a war crime and refuse to stop bitching about years after the fact.

Also, you're talking to someone who has contemplated suicide more than once. I have friends who have been homeless. And these sleazy motherfuckers you're cozying up to have never once done right by me or my friends. They have done fuck all to help dudes like me. They never participate in the kind of activism that would help prevent suicides. They're never part of the conversation in making mental healthcare more accessible. They're never involved in any efforts to help the homeless. All they do is use guys like me as a prop to draw attention to themselves. The MRM is full of shit. It's a bunch of whiny, self-centered little boys pretending to be men and playing the victim card constantly because they think they're entitled to be running things in spite of their crippling incompetence and emotional retardation. Fuck 'em.

BeetleManiac:
you're talking to someone who has contemplated suicide more than once. I have friends who have been homeless. And these sleazy motherfuckers you're cozying up to have never once done right by me or my friends. They have done fuck all to help dudes like me. They never participate in the kind of activism that would help prevent suicides. They're never part of the conversation in making mental healthcare more accessible. They're never involved in any efforts to help the homeless. All they do is use guys like me as a prop to draw attention to themselves. The MRM is full of shit. It's a bunch of whiny, self-centered little boys pretending to be men and playing the victim card constantly because they think they're entitled to be running things in spite of their crippling incompetence and emotional retardation. Fuck 'em.

Warren Farrel wrote some 20 years ago that women (society) cannot hear what men do not say. In my experience, when a man complains he is met with derision rather than attention. Again, that suicide rate stat is about 4-5 times that of a woman's.

You can be angry enough at the MRAs for not being consequential enough. But they, at a minimum, are trying to see to it that the world hears what men are starting to say.

I worry that girls in the Boy Scouts will take us a step back towards self censorship.

Fixing it all, if possible, starts with communication. I give the MRAs, and male spaces, that much: they help make that much, communication, more likely to happen.

Gorfias:
Warren Farrel wrote some 20 years ago that women (society) cannot hear what men do not say.

Warren Farrel is a self-righteous hack. Evilthecat can do a much better job than I can of explaining that to you.

You can be angry enough at the MRAs for not being consequential enough. But they, at a minimum, are trying to see to it that the world hears what men are starting to say.

No they aren't. They're little brats screaming, "Look at me! Respect my penis!"

Fixing it all, if possible, starts with communication. I give the MRAs, and male spaces, that much: they help make that much, communication, more likely to happen.

No. If anything, they're actually making the conversation harder to have because all they do is whine, bitch and moan in disingenuous ways, trying to monopolize the conversation by shutting everyone else out, and then disappear when it comes time to put rubber to road. If talk is all you got, then you're less than useless.

That's why I find bullshit so infuriating. Instead of doing anything useful, we have to waste our fucking time cleaning it up. And I know it's bullshit because you only ever bring it up when women either take a step forward in our society or when feminism is mentioned. It's not an issue you ever feel is important enough to be discussed on its own merits.

BeetleManiac:
you only ever bring it up when women either take a step forward in our society or when feminism is mentioned. It's not an issue you ever feel is important enough to be discussed on its own merits.

Warren Farrell, 20 years ago, y'know, the "hack" did mention that men would continue to bottle things up until things got intolerable. Back then, it was a big deal for guys to stand around a fire naked shouting and holding spears and people said, "that's not a political movement" and Farrell wrote, not yet. But as things become more and more intolerable, at some point, these sort of burning man type gatherings will become political. It's happening but it is hard. It is against male nature to draw attention to ourselves and worse, to speak out against female interests. even if justice demands we do so.

So far, it is too much a reflexive movement. That doesn't make the fight for men's rights, like male spaces boy scouts deserve, a wrong thing.

Gorfias:
There is a huge concern out there that women want/have always wanted to shut down communication by men to men. That they are invading male spaces to keep them from talking to each other.

There were huge concerns that Obama was the anti-Christ. Ddin't mean there was any truth to it.

Gorfias:
in a world were "man spreading" is a thing

Same question I always ask when someone pretends man spreading is a thing. How many times have you seen that brought up in the last, say, 2 years? How many of those times were actually about man spreading being a thing, rather than an attack of feminists supposedly saying it was?

For that matter, how many times have you ever seen people saying man spreading was a serious issue in of itself? 5 total? Less?

Gorfias:
It is against male nature to draw attention to ourselves

No it isn't. That's a shitty evo-psych excuse cooked up by pathetic little boys to rationalize away their own anti-woman whining and crippling insecurity. Against male nature my entire ass.

BeetleManiac:

Gorfias:
It is against male nature to draw attention to ourselves

No it isn't. That's a shitty evo-psych excuse cooked up by pathetic little boys to rationalize away their own anti-woman whining and crippling insecurity. Against male nature my entire ass.

Yes it. If it isn't where you are from, you are from a pretty bizarre place. I should write it is against our nature because of experience. Male complaints are typically met with derision rather than help. Look just to the topic of domestic abuse. There are some 2,000 abused women's shelters in the USA. There is 1, in Arkansas for men even though men are as likely to be abused by a female spouse as is woman is to be abused by a male.

That you would even write what you just did is further evidence of the problem. A man who points out a gender injustice is just, your term, "whining" and has "crippling insecurity". Yup.

bastardofmelbourne:
Scouts in Australia have been co-ed for a while now.

Yes, sex occurs. No, I didn't get any of it.

If a good friend of mine is to be believed, Rover Scout camp trips consisted basically of drinking, fucking and occasionally blowing something up. Not a bad weekend by all accounts, but I suspect he was fluffing his pillow a bit.

Plus my read was that Scouting in Australia was coed basically from day one, though it's a bit hard to verify

Gorfias:

bastardofmelbourne:
Scouts in Australia have been co-ed for a while now.

Yes, sex occurs. No, I didn't get any of it.

Life can be so unfair!

I wonder if over-all enrollment has steadied, declined, increased in Australia.

Isn't the point of gender segregation for the scouts so that they can have a fairly single gender space where they don't feel social pressure involved in such a mix?

Have the Australian scouts become Gynocentric, dropping historically stereo typically male activities in favor of activities meant to feminize them?

Not sure where I can even start looking for information on this.

......Jesus-fucking-Christ.

Short answer, no, we did the same shit from arts and crafts to abseiling - and for the short time I was there, I was shit at all of them. And if the website is accurate, these days they also build ballista.

As for membership, its sitting at 70,000 nationwide from a population of 24,000,000 so that's not so bad. Honestly their biggest competitor has probably been videogames.

Gorfias:
Yes it. If it isn't where you are from, you are from a pretty bizarre place.

That would be Pittsburgh.

I should write it is against our nature because of experience.

And my experience is the polar opposite. That doesn't change the fact that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." Wanting something to be true does not automatically make it so.

At no point have you shown any insight into human nature or behavior. You just repeat talking points verbatim given to you by people who make money off of keeping you scared and stupid.

Male complaints are typically met with derision rather than help.

By other men. And yet somehow it's always the fault of feminism for being a thing.

That you would even write what you just did is further evidence of the problem. A man who points out a gender injustice is just, your term, "whining" and has "crippling insecurity". Yup.

I don't mean to profile but it's... you know, true. Most MRAs don't have institutional problems. They have problems of their own creation and they blame everyone else for their unhappiness. They're ignorant, credulous, self-centered and unempathetic. They claim to fight for men's rights, but they're only in it for themselves. At worst, "men's rights" is just a cover for their deep-seated misogyny.

Are there problems for men on a societal level? Yes. The MRAs will never do anything about them, though. They lack the discipline, empathy and intellect to participate in any real activism. And whenever they're needed, they're always off somewhere else complaining about feminism.

EDIT: We're overdue to address one of the more obvious points here. You're demand for "male spaces" is really just a demand for "safe spaces." Which is fine. Go have some beers and watch Stallone movies in your man-cave. Everyone deserves a safe space at some point. But trying to rebrand it as something else just for you is just dishonest and immature.

Saelune:
Should just merge the Boy and Girl scouts organizations and make it just Scouts and stop with any sort of segregation, gender or otherwise.

^^^This^^^ and high time too.

Not even all that long ago boy Scouts were catching flak for their boys only policy. Now they are catching flak for letting girls in. Integration can have its challenges having coed groups of tween and teenagers camping together but segregation isn't really that healthy either and it's not like the boys and girls will be sharing tents or anything.

It would be even better if the kids could enroll in a set of programs that meet their interests cafeteria style rather than having set programs. Might be hard to staff that much choice from a pool of people largely centered around volunteers.

BeetleManiac:

Male complaints are typically met with derision rather than help.

By other men. And yet somehow it's always the fault of feminism for being a thing.

I didn't say, nor do the people I listen to, say that it is always the fault of feminism. You are projecting.

That you would even write what you just did is further evidence of the problem. A man who points out a gender injustice is just, your term, "whining" and has "crippling insecurity". Yup.

I don't mean to profile but it's... you know, true. Most MRAs don't have institutional problems. They have problems of their own creation and they blame everyone else for their unhappiness. They're ignorant, credulous, self-centered and unempathetic. They claim to fight for men's rights, but they're only in it for themselves. At worst, "men's rights" is just a cover for their deep-seated misogyny.

Are there problems for men on a societal level? Yes. The MRAs will never do anything about them, though. They lack the discipline, empathy and intellect to participate in any real activism. And whenever they're needed, they're always off somewhere else complaining about feminism.

Talk about radical generalizations!

And writing that MRAs exist only out of misogyny is a big part of the problem. That IS an example of what I'm writing about: deriding men who talk about their issues... if men are allowed to examine their issues to begin with.

BeetleManiac:

EDIT: We're overdue to address one of the more obvious points here. You're demand for "male spaces" is really just a demand for "safe spaces." Which is fine. Go have some beers and watch Stallone movies in your man-cave. Everyone deserves a safe space at some point. But trying to rebrand it as something else just for you is just dishonest and immature.

A male space would not necessarily be a safe space. It would be a place for men to be men, good and bad. But of course, this likely sounds like a man having an issue, and you deriding it. Nice to know you think men's complaints are not met with derision.

Gorfias:
I should write it is against our nature because of experience.

If it's by experience, by nurture, than it's the exact opposite of being by nature.

Having said that, certainly men are being brought up to believe they shouldn't talk about their problems. Hell, you yourself ridiculed the idea of talking about toxic masculinity in this thread, which is exactly what that is.

Thaluikhain:

Gorfias:
I should write it is against our nature because of experience.

If it's by experience, by nurture, than it's the exact opposite of being by nature.

Having said that, certainly men are being brought up to believe they shouldn't talk about their problems. Hell, you yourself ridiculed the idea of talking about toxic masculinity in this thread, which is exactly what that is.

I ridicule the concept of "toxic masculinity" because I think it a wolf in sheep's clothing: the real point of it is to shame men for being men. To make it further illegal to be a man. Next step, slave collars and forced labor camps. No thank you.

Gorfias:

Thaluikhain:

Gorfias:
I should write it is against our nature because of experience.

If it's by experience, by nurture, than it's the exact opposite of being by nature.

Having said that, certainly men are being brought up to believe they shouldn't talk about their problems. Hell, you yourself ridiculed the idea of talking about toxic masculinity in this thread, which is exactly what that is.

I ridicule the concept of "toxic masculinity" because I think it a wolf in sheep's clothing: the real point of it is to shame men for being men. To make it further illegal to be a man. Next step, slave collars and forced labor camps. No thank you.

Yes, and you are completely wrong about that, even before you get into the ridiculous hyperbole.

Toxic masculinity is about how men (and boys) are brought up with ideas of maleness that are harmful to them/society. This has been explained over and over throughout the net as a whole, and the R&P forum here in particular.

Now, you can claim it's some gynocentric conspiracy to feminize men or whatever, but don't be terrible surprised if your arguments about men's issues (not men's issues in general, your arguments) are met with derision.

Thaluikhain:

Toxic masculinity is about how men (and boys) are brought up with ideas of maleness that are harmful to them/society. This has been explained over and over throughout the net as a whole, and the R&P forum here in particular.

Now, you can claim it's some gynocentric conspiracy to feminize men or whatever, but don't be terrible surprised if your arguments about men's issues (not men's issues in general, your arguments) are met with derision.

I can't believe there is any MGTOW, Red Pill or MRA that buys that. It sounds more like exactly the sort of anti-male, mysandrist sort of thing they are fighting against.

Put it in perspective.

I see Ema Watson saying she cares about men and their issues, such as male suicide. What does she proscribe? A movement called, "He For She." Not "Us United" or "Us Together" or "He With/And She". Nope. "He For She." Be a white knight. Sacrifice yourself. Be more like a girl. Give girls and women stuff. That'll cause a drop in male suicide rates! Bah Hum bug.

People are still thinking "Toxic Masculinity" is a thing?

Didn't they get laughed at hard enough the first few times they brought that up?

The concept has been completely derided by the constant attempts to shame men and take away their spaces.

As such, I can't see any situation where it's to be taken seriously.

The Lunatic:
People are still thinking "Toxic Masculinity" is a thing?

Didn't they get laughed at hard enough the first few times they brought that up?

The concept has been completely derided by the constant attempts to shame men and take away their spaces.

As such, I can't see any situation where it's to be taken seriously.

But... but... but... this guy likes it! Don't you want to be like him?

image

Gorfias:
I can't believe there is any MGTOW, Red Pill or MRA that buys that.

That they would resist actually acknowledging the root cause of men's issue, and prefer to pretend it's some anti-male conspiracy would not surprise me, no. I don't see why we should listen to them instead of people actually trying to help fix men's issues, however.

Gorfias:
I see Ema Watson saying she cares about men and their issues, such as male suicide. What does she proscribe? A movement called, "He For She." Not "Us United" or "Us Together" or "He With/And She". Nope. "He For She." Be a white knight. Sacrifice yourself. Be more like a girl. Give girls and women stuff. That'll cause a drop in male suicide rates! Bah Hum bug.

I don't recall her saying that the HeForShe campaign was designed to address male suicide. Trying to fix one issue doesn't mean you must oppose trying to fix others.

In any case, caring about women's issues does not necessarily entail sacrificing men, or men being more like girls. Not sure why the latter needs be a problem.

Gorfias:
But... but... but... this guy likes it! Don't you want to be like him?

image

image

Honestly, I really do feel sorry for Canada.

Thaluikhain:
In any case, caring about women's issues does not necessarily entail sacrificing men, or men being more like girls.

Yet we're told constantly how evil men are, and how we're the problem. The solutions are always to take steps against men, to "Re-educate" or change male-only groups.

How often do you see this happening to women, exactly?

The Lunatic:

Honestly, I really do feel sorry for Canada.

Truly sad. And they're doing this to themselves.

Thaluikhain:
In any case, caring about women's issues does not necessarily entail sacrificing men, or men being more like girls.

True (BTW: I don't see her talk about suicide in her speech. My bad. She does give some lip service to male issues and her suggestion is that men need to white knight for women).

Good response:

Yet we're told constantly how evil men are, and how we're the problem. The solutions are always to take steps against men, to "Re-educate" or change male-only groups.

How often do you see this happening to women, exactly?

I will write there is a push by Western elites to make women more man like, pushing women into, for instance, STEM fields, even if they don't want to do so.

The Lunatic:
Yet we're told constantly how evil men are, and how we're the problem. The solutions are always to take steps against men, to "Re-educate" or change male-only groups.

How often do you see this happening to women, exactly?

Putting aside the fact that problems with how men fit in society is now the same as men being the problem, I see that happening to women all the time.

For example, just a few days ago, The Bolt Report was saying that the problem with Weinstein was that he was given too much power by women. For that matter, almost any high profile sexual assault of women will lead to calls for women to change they way they act because it was their own fault.

Thaluikhain:
Putting aside the fact that problems with how men fit in society is now the same as men being the problem, I see that happening to women all the time.

For example, just a few days ago, The Bolt Report was saying that the problem with Weinstein was that he was given too much power by women. For that matter, almost any high profile sexual assault of women will lead to calls for women to change they way they act because it was their own fault.

Oh, so, there are activists trying to enforce this and governments enacting change so that women don't act this way?

Are there various groups set up specifically to blame women and talk about how women need to learn how to behave around men? Are there companies being pressured to enact changes to their hiring to ensure that they don't recruit women who "Keep their legs shut" and "Don't get abused"?

Or is it just some idiot from some no-name website saying something stupid?

Because, if it's the latter, it's a bit of a false equivalence, don't you think?

The Lunatic:
Oh, so, there are activists trying to enforce this and governments enacting change so that women don't act this way?

Are there various groups set up specifically to blame women and talk about how women need to learn how to behave around men? Are there companies being pressured to enact changes to their hiring to ensure that they don't recruit women who "Keep their legs shut" and "Don't get abused"?

Various groups, governments, institutions and the like do tend to be notably hostile to women and women's agency, yes. This is not a new observation.

Thaluikhain:

The Lunatic:
Oh, so, there are activists trying to enforce this and governments enacting change so that women don't act this way?

Are there various groups set up specifically to blame women and talk about how women need to learn how to behave around men? Are there companies being pressured to enact changes to their hiring to ensure that they don't recruit women who "Keep their legs shut" and "Don't get abused"?

Various groups, governments, institutions and the like do tend to be notably hostile to women and women's agency, yes. This is not a new observation.

Care to provide some examples of when women's spaces, groups, or other such cases where women have been discriminated against in order to bring more men into an area?

Gorfias:

Thaluikhain:

Gorfias:
I should write it is against our nature because of experience.

If it's by experience, by nurture, than it's the exact opposite of being by nature.

Having said that, certainly men are being brought up to believe they shouldn't talk about their problems. Hell, you yourself ridiculed the idea of talking about toxic masculinity in this thread, which is exactly what that is.

I ridicule the concept of "toxic masculinity" because I think it a wolf in sheep's clothing: the real point of it is to shame men for being men. To make it further illegal to be a man. Next step, slave collars and forced labor camps. No thank you.

Define being a man. In my experience people mainly refer to being hormone driven assholes, Fight Club style. And as a dick owner, those people need to grow up.

Oh, and you talk about male suicide? I thought about killing myself. I thought out methods. I would have done it with carbon dioxide poisoning.

You are the last fucking person I want talking about this issue. Your obsession with men being men and women feminizing them? The kindness and comfort I got from my mother is what kept me going, what let me talk about it. If I was in an area where I was expected to be manly, I might have ended up dead. If you really care about men killing themselves, stop talking about what you don't fucking understand. If you actually care that I'd.

erttheking:

Define being a man.

That's the point. It isn't up to me to tell you what being a man is. It isn't up to Ema Watson to decide (that giving her stuff and white knighting for her will improve a man's world). It is up to you to decide, without reeducation camps you're forced into to keep your job because someone accused you of wrong think.

The kindness and comfort I got from my mother is what kept me going, what let me talk about it. If I was in an area where I was expected to be manly, I might have ended up dead. If you really care about men killing themselves, stop talking about what you don't fucking understand. If you actually care that I'd.

1. When you talk about the hardships of being manly, it sounds like you are letting others define the term for you. It isn't their right but yours.
2. I am glad to hear you were able to get compassion from your mom. But I truly think male complaints tend to repel (men and women both) while when a woman complains, it attracts people that will try to assist. For instance, I just heard that parents tend to take longer to respond to a crying male baby than a female. Not sure where I can find the study on this.
If you think that is wrong, the first step is to talk about it.

Gorfias:

erttheking:

Define being a man.

That's the point. It isn't up to me to tell you what being a man is. It isn't up to Ema Watson to decide (that giving her stuff and white knighting for her will improve a man's world). It is up to you to decide, without reeducation camps you're forced into to keep your job because someone accused you of wrong think.

The kindness and comfort I got from my mother is what kept me going, what let me talk about it. If I was in an area where I was expected to be manly, I might have ended up dead. If you really care about men killing themselves, stop talking about what you don't fucking understand. If you actually care that I'd.

1. When you talk about the hardships of being manly, it sounds like you are letting others define the term for you. It isn't their right but yours.
2. I am glad to hear you were able to get compassion from your mom. But I truly think male complaints tend to repel (men and women both) while when a woman complains, it attracts people that will try to assist. For instance, I just heard that parents tend to take longer to respond to a crying male baby than a female. Not sure where I can find the study on this.
If you think that is wrong, the first step is to talk about it.

Oh. Then when you say people are shamed for being men, it doesn't actually mean anything. Unless you're saying all men are shamed for everything they do. Education camps, oh drop the hyperbole. You wouldn't know real oppression if it kicked you in the balls.

See above. Although my ideal concept of a man is one who can be civil in public and doesn't throw a fit when they're called on asshole behavior. Not a very popular take for some reason. Wait did I say ideal man? I meant ideal functioning member of polite society. Male complaints are repelled when they're whiny bullshit over complaining about man spreading (which is fucking rude) not about real problems. Unless we're told to man up, which comes back to that toxic masculinity thing you don't want to talk about. You've heard? I've seen. Try talking to suicidal men instead of alt right noise makers. Oh wait, you've talked to several in this thread. You're ignoring them. This is why you're the last person I want talking about this.

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