It's okay to white, identity politics and white supermacy

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StatusNil:

Critical Race Theory Calls for Permanent, Codified Racial Preferences

At the heart of Critical Race Theory lies the rejection of colorblind meritocracy. Formal equality overlooks structural disadvantages and requires mere nondiscrimination or "equal treatment." Instead, Critical Race Theory calls for "aggressive, color conscious efforts to change the way things are." It contemplates "race-conscious decision making as a routine, non-deviant mode, a more or less permanent norm to be used in distributing positions of wealth, prestige, and power.

http://hlrecord.org/2016/02/racism-justified-a-critical-look-at-critical-race-theory/#_ftn2

Right. And? Absolutely nothing there is to do with abolishing whitecraft or whatever bollocks you were going on about. Rejection of a colourblind meritocracy? Obviously, anyone with eyes can see that we don't have a colourblind meritocracy, or a meritocracy at all frankly.

Another quote from your link:

This "myth of meritocracy" is merely a tool to perpetuate the existing power structures that are based on white supremacy and white privilege. Thus, the myth of meritocracy marginalizes people of color.

Seems pretty reasonable to me. The myth of meritocracy has been used to justify various inequalities for centuries, that it exists in a racial format as well as a class format seems obvious. I imagine there are numerous Feminist versions of that argument applying the myth to women's employment as well.

And by the way just to be clear, what you have linked is purely an opinion piece. Its well backed up by sources but its not the be-all and end-all factually and its certainly not the working definition of race theory. And frankly, coming back to this paragraph having read further, this opinion piece isn't a very sound piece of academic argument either. Almost nothing follows necessarily from the points raised in their given context, though that could be a problem due to their lack of given definitions as well (an absolute must for philosophers!). A post-structuralist would have a fucking field day with a text like this.

For example, the section titled: "A Brief Critique"

But Critical Race theory not only directs how to structure the university, but also how to structure the relation of the individual to the state. Racially-based taxes, racially-based employment quotas, racially-based redistributions of wealth: none would be beyond the theoretical horizon of Critical Race theory.

are either of the bolded ideas actually put forward by anyone? No, they aren't (or at least they aren't cited). Its just someone gibbering to themselves about the implications of a position based on a cursory reading of their philosophy. The argument made here is summed up by the phrase "None would be beyond the theoretical horizon of Critical Race Theory". Because it seems to me a parapraxis (Thank you BastardOfMelborne!). It is indeed a horizon, something we have not reached. It is so far into the horizon that no one is even suggesting what Bill is.

Lets look at the next sentence in that paragraph: "All are justified by an appeal to inadequate racial justice, an appeal that can neither be proved nor disproved"

Cannot be proved nor disproved? Is he saying that there is insufficient evidence of racial injustice in the U.S.? Because that rather puts the whole opinion piece into context, doesn't it?

StatusNil:
Sure, that's just the disreputable alt-right blog, the Harvard Law Record. But they have references to primary sources in footnotes for you to investigate. Of course, I would think there's something deviant about establishing the permanent norm of racial division of "wealth, prestige and power". After all, I have been known to quote approvingly the words of Literal Black Hitler here:

Urgh. Good lord, the entire post is going to be like this isn't it? Can you stop being so god damn excited about your own argument for 5 minutes? 'Smug' doesn't even begin to do your attitude justice.

And if you seriously think that there aren't any right-wing people studying law (Harvard or otherwise) then fucking lol to my friend, fucking L O L to you.

Anyway, having read the first section titled "Critical Race Theory Calls for Permanent, Codified Racial Preferences" I am yet to see any evidence that such suggestions by critical race theorists are calls for a new "permanent norm". Everything so far has been in respect to redressing current or previous imbalance, not creating a new permanent norm based on affirmative action.

If you have any evidence to the contrary then please share it, I feel as though reading this does not give me any reasonable context with which to analyse these race theory positions, just a bunch of select quotes that don't even have the decency to properly explain a single point beyond a single context-less sentence. Other than sound bite material I can't find anything to actually analyse here, since the evaluation of each individual point is either non-existent or brief to the point being useless.

EDIT: I went far out of my way and lucked into a PDF of the piece being referenced here, allow me to give you some context:

This proposal obviously contemplates race-conscious decision-making as a routine-nondeviant mode, a more or less permanent norm in distributing legal academic jobs...

... The position is problematic as well as controversial, because it relies on the idea of cultural subordination, rather than on the more familar fundamentalist ideas of prejudice and discrimination.

So someone is discussing what someone else has written (Kennedy) and doing so critically. Only through looking that up myself do I have any idea what the hell Bill was suppossed to be talking about and even then he is misrepresenting the situation. Have a look yourself if you can stand to read the evil race theory.

StatusNil:
image

God, you really are proud of your position, aren't you? As if I'm going to balk at who is "obviously" my hero MLK because without context he seems to be disagreeing with me. Christ.

Here's a question: If MLK thought that affirmative action were the only way to grant equality between black and white people (and white/everyone else, too) then do you think he would do it? Because that's certainly what Nelson Mandela seemed to think in post-aparthied South Africa and I don't see you calling him out for his obvious racism.

StatusNil:
It's not like there's no pattern: https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/33530/

So your trend is based off several examples masquerading as a compelling argument? Has anyone said the phrase "Correlation does not equal causation" to you yet? Because they should.

Sources that I can find state that there were 20 million students enrolled in Autumn this year. From a brief look that's 12 examples, out of what Google says are 2618 universities in total. Not exactly an overwhelming tide when viewed relatively, is it?

StatusNil:
I'll take your word for it, since I never go myself. But the problem is that those fuckers used to be wrong about this stuff. And now we have people high on "woke" gleefully making their propaganda accurate. 4 Great Social Justice!

If you aren't going to disagree with my point, at least have the decency to come out and say it. You agree with the people on Stormfront, its not hard to say. Phrasing it as "well if only those people weren't so right I wouldn't agree with them!" is just pointless cowardice. I know what you mean, you know what you mean, lets not pretend and waste our time.

StatusNil:

ineptelephant:
kindly go and read Wittgenstien's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

"Roughly speaking: objects are colourless"

Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus: 2.0232

I mean... Yes? Colour is not a property of an object, sure. I was really looking for something useful in context, not something completely unrelated to the discussion that we were having. Unless that's one of your favourite quotes from the book?

Did you really not get why I raised it as an example? Because of the way that its written, utterly denying context and subtelty in favour of cold, literal interpretations? The idea that there are no philosophical disagreements but only disagreements of language? That thing that the text is famous for and that Wittgenstein revised in his next work?

ineptelephant:

StatusNil:
image

You notice that he's posting a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, despite the fact he's one of the people that would probably get angry if anyone posted his white moderate quote. It kind of reminds me of something John Oliver said. That people would rather vote for Martin Luther King Jr.'s ghost over Trump or Hillary "assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like."

StatusNil:

altnameJag:
Hell, I'm fairly certain I've got basically nothing in common with your average Anglo-Saxon Protestant given I'm a Catholic Serbian mutt whose family moved generationally west over the years.

You don't share a common humanity with those people then?

Makes sense that you'd play the "But you see, I'm not one of those dirty whiteys!" card, though. As if that's going to make a difference when the Liberation gets swinging in crimson earnest.

Never said that, actually. Just said, as an example of race, I've got more in common with Mongolia than I do Saxony despite glowing in the dark, so fuck this "white race" bullshit.

erttheking:
You notice that he's posting a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, despite the fact he's one of the people that would probably get angry if anyone posted his white moderate quote. It kind of reminds me of something John Oliver said. That people would rather vote for Martin Luther King Jr.'s ghost over Trump or Hillary "assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like.?

It's so convenient to have one's quotes come from someone dead, you can claim they'd be on your side and they can't contradict you without a ouija board.

erttheking:

ineptelephant:

StatusNil:
image

You notice that he's posting a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, despite the fact he's one of the people that would probably get angry if anyone posted his white moderate quote. It kind of reminds me of something John Oliver said. That people would rather vote for Martin Luther King Jr.'s ghost over Trump or Hillary "assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like.?

Argued for a universal basic income in the same speech. No wonder the FBI wanted to off him.

Thaluikhain:
It's so convenient to have one's quotes come from someone dead, you can claim they'd be on your side and they can't contradict you without a ouija board.

Not much else to be done when the only living black people they can point to as ostensibly being on their side are Ben Carson, Omarosa Manigault, Jesse Lee Peterson and David Clarke.

Are we seriously humoring the same 4chan that assure us that no one has ever been racist towards the Irish in the past? Great. Another 5 pages thread of going around on circles.

erttheking:

You notice that he's posting a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, despite the fact he's one of the people that would probably get angry if anyone posted his white moderate quote. It kind of reminds me of something John Oliver said. That people would rather vote for Martin Luther King Jr.'s ghost over Trump or Hillary "assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like."

Subposting me? That's pretty rude. If you want to say something to me, I'm around.

Oh, and John Oliver is a clown.

altnameJag:

Never said that, actually. Just said, as an example of race, I've got more in common with Mongolia than I do Saxony despite glowing in the dark, so fuck this "white race" bullshit.

Hey, I'm all for cutting out the whole "race" bullshit altogether. And I may have more in common with Mongolia than Saxony myself, I just don't care.

BeetleManiac:

Thaluikhain:
It's so convenient to have one's quotes come from someone dead, you can claim they'd be on your side and they can't contradict you without a ouija board.

Not much else to be done when the only living black people they can point to as ostensibly being on their side are Ben Carson, Omarosa Manigault, Jesse Lee Peterson and David Clarke.

He's mostly irrelevant now, but I feel like you might have forgotten someone.

image

StatusNil:
]

Hey, I'm all for cutting out the whole "race" bullshit altogether.

Bull fucking shit you are, you literally took alt's post as an attack on "dirty whiteys" because you want to be a victim so fucking much.

Zontar:

FalloutJack:
Where was 'white race' when people were putting up signs saying 'No Irish'?

It was still there, there was just no solidarity like there is now because there was no need for it because you didn't have entire movements dedicated to attacking all whites politically.

It's actually odd you, like most, bring up the Irish when the Irish had most of the propaganda against them be reliant on them being white for it to even work.

Welcome to the loud outcry of hypocrites who hate everything, but dammit they have that bottom line of business to get quotas for, the 'Do as I say, not as I do' crowd. The solidarity is built on a pack of lies, about the same as saying the US is for 'Real Americans', when the Native Americans who got shaftered are the only real ones.

Vrex360:
Again the words themselves 'It's okay to be white' are fairly innocuous and innocent and were they by themselves I would agree that liberals are overeacting (though I would argue this is a lose/lose situation, either you challenge them and give them what they want or you don't challenge them and invite fascist rhetoric into your school) but those words 'Context' and 'Implication' that you brought up? The current unstable political environment we are in? THAT'S the damn context! And where it led last time and where it WILL lead again is the 'implication'

Your line of reasoning is solid, so I don't blame you for coming to the conclusion this act had racist intent. But you should aware of a different context that goes along with what you mentioned. Specifically, left wing extremists pushing ideas like "People of color come first", white privilege, white guilt, and female superiority. Also take into account the general fuckery on college campuses and SJW professors who should have lost their jobs but the institution drags their feet because the left are somehow always in the right. Whiteness is under attack. The right oversells it for victim points, but it still exists.

The target of your ire is fascists. That's fine, we all have our priorities. But that can also skew your perspective into thinking racism is more likely. "It's okay to be white" doesn't have enough context for us to call it either way because we don't know the mindset of the person who left it. That forces you to take it at face value. At face value, the words are harmless.

Shadowstar38:
white privilege

When black people stop being arrested at a far higher rate for crimes white and black people commit at the same rate, with black people getting harsher sentencing, white privilege will stop being a thing. And I guess pointing that out is "minorities come first."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Shadowstar38:
female superiority

Funny how whenever people try and talk about sexism and fixing it it always turns into women dominating men. Seriously, this is not new.

image

And as someone who went to college, the only fuckery that ever happens on campus here is religious nut jobs who keep showing up to scream about god knows what, I never stop to listen. "SJW shenanigans" are overblown stereotypes. Not to be a dick, but they seem to originate from people who have a distaste for higher education in general.

As a very white man living in a very blue state, I have never felt that my whiteness is under attack. Because it isn't. White people dominate this country, most of what goes on within it, and that doesn't look like it's going anywhere for a very long time. And we don't know the mindset of the person who left it? Uh, considering the events surrounding it, where they left it and the racist jack-o-lantern, we can make a pretty good guess.

erttheking:

ineptelephant:

StatusNil:
image

You notice that he's posting a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, despite the fact he's one of the people that would probably get angry if anyone posted his white moderate quote. It kind of reminds me of something John Oliver said. That people would rather vote for Martin Luther King Jr.'s ghost over Trump or Hillary "assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like."

Indeed, that's a good point. It reminds me of learning Hegel. Its rather obvious when you learn specific parts of a thinker's work purely for the opportunity to use those parts as ammunition against people who you assume agree/believe in it. Referring to him as "black hitler" has to be the most scarlet-red of flags.

erttheking:

Shadowstar38:
white privilege

When black people stop being arrested at a far higher rate for crimes white and black people commit at the same rate, with black people getting harsher sentencing, white privilege will stop being a thing. And I guess pointing that out is "minorities come first."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Shadowstar38:
female superiority

Funny how whenever people try and talk about sexism and fixing it it always turns into women dominating men. Seriously, this is not new.

image

And as someone who went to college, the only fuckery that ever happens on campus here is religious nut jobs who keep showing up to scream about god knows what, I never stop to listen. "SJW shenanigans" are overblown stereotypes. Not to be a dick, but they seem to originate from people who have a distaste for higher education in general.

As a very white man living in a very blue state, I have never felt that my whiteness is under attack. Because it isn't. White people dominate this country, most of what goes on within it, and that doesn't look like it's going anywhere for a very long time. And we don't know the mindset of the person who left it? Uh, considering the events surrounding it, where they left it and the racist jack-o-lantern, we can make a pretty good guess.

I take it the existence of courses like this one flew right past your radar then?
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/23/health/college-course-white-controversy-irpt-trnd/index.html

Or how about this?
https://www.tolerance.org/professional-development/on-racism-and-white-privilege

Oh and let's not forget Evergreen shall we? Want to remind the class what the catalyst for that was?

erttheking:

When black people stop being arrested at a far higher rate for crimes white and black people commit at the same rate, with black people getting harsher sentencing, white privilege will stop being a thing.

A statistical imbalance says something society as a whole. People who are intelligent and nuanced realize this does not apply on an individual bases and never claimed to. 100% of people educated in these issues are not intelligent and nuanced. Hence, a negative response.

And I guess pointing that out is "minorities come first."

No...that's a separate subject. I used a comma.

Funny how whenever people try and talk about sexism and fixing it it always turns into women dominating men. Seriously, this is not new.

K?

And as someone who went to college, the only fuckery that ever happens on campus here is religious nut jobs who keep showing up to scream about god knows what, I never stop to listen. "SJW shenanigans" are overblown stereotypes. Not to be a dick, but they seem to originate from people who have a distaste for higher education in general.

Campuses I've been to have a lack of religious fuckery in spite of being in a red state. (Almost as if the statistical verses individual conundrum showed up again)

As a very white man living in a very blue state, I have never felt that my whiteness is under attack.

I'm happy for you.

Because it isn't.

Da fuq?

Would you believe that in over 20 years of being alive, over 10 years of those in the southern US, I've never been called the N word in a derogatory manner? Or pulled over for no reason. Or had any issue of overt discrimination occur from a white person. Almost makes me think the "It's cause I'm black" anecdotes from my friends and family are outright fabrications.

But only a crazy person would write off so many people as liars...

RikuoAmero:
Snip

So just skimming my post huh? It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring the majority of my posts when they argue with me. As for your links, one seems to be more about examining the white race as a concept than it is attacking anyone for being white. The other really fails to jump out at me as a problem, so you're going to have to elaborate.

So, you gonna address the rest of my posts or are we done here? I'm really not in a mood for a post where I point out hundreds of thousand of black people are put in jail at a disproportion rate compared to white people and to have a reply to it be about a college course you don't like. It really shows the massive gap between what the people who claim white racism is a massive problem think is a problem and what I consider to be massive racism problems.

Shadowstar38:

erttheking:

When black people stop being arrested at a far higher rate for crimes white and black people commit at the same rate, with black people getting harsher sentencing, white privilege will stop being a thing.

A statistical imbalance says something society as a whole. People who are intelligent and nuanced realize this does not apply on an individual bases and never claimed to. 100% of people educated in these issues are not intelligent and nuanced. Hence, a negative response.

And I guess pointing that out is "minorities come first."

No...that's a separate subject. I used a comma.

Funny how whenever people try and talk about sexism and fixing it it always turns into women dominating men. Seriously, this is not new.

K?

And as someone who went to college, the only fuckery that ever happens on campus here is religious nut jobs who keep showing up to scream about god knows what, I never stop to listen. "SJW shenanigans" are overblown stereotypes. Not to be a dick, but they seem to originate from people who have a distaste for higher education in general.

Campuses I've been to have a lack of religious fuckery in spite of being in a red state. (Almost as if the statistical verses individual conundrum showed up again)

As a very white man living in a very blue state, I have never felt that my whiteness is under attack.

I'm happy for you.

Because it isn't.

Da fuq?

Would you believe that in over 20 years of being alive, over 10 years of those in the southern US, I've never been called the N word in a derogatory manner? Or pulled over for no reason. Or had any issue of overt discrimination occur from a white person. Almost makes me think the "It's cause I'm black" anecdotes from my friends and family are outright fabrications.

But only a crazy person would write off so many people as liars...

Well, I can certainly agree with that. Still, white privilege is a thing, and people really do need to learn about the massive inequalities in American society.

The two issues seem to be rather birds of a feather.

It's an overblown response. It doesn't really have much of a base to stand on.

I think there may be some cause and effect there. You usually don't see people screaming about out there religious ideals where everyone stands around them and nod. Not on a campus anyway.

Thank you.

Except there's a bit of a difference between the crap black people have to go through and the crap white people have to go through. Black people put up with racial profiling, unequal sentences, disproportionate arrests, and a bunch of stuff I go on all day about. Meanwhile, white people don't really compare and there's nowhere near the level of official data that shows the problem the black community has to face. I mean black people complain about hundreds of thousand of people going to jail. White people complain about a sign meant to provoke being taken down. I think one group has real problems and the other one doesn't.

CyanCat47:
What exactly is this anti-white policy then?

Well if you want inarguable hard pressed into law examples, there's affirmative action, which no matter what one can say about it in theory, in practice it now exists as a means of determining things such as higher education application that takes race as a serious consideration of one's worth of entry into a program (despite the fact this actively harms every single demographic without a single exception and helps literally no one in the long run), as well as the allocation of resources for those in need, which has whites, particularly white men, at the bottom of the pecking order (in the UK there's even been studies to show this, meaning if you're a poor white man in the UK who needs help, you've literally got the least privilege of anyone without exception).

Zontar:

CyanCat47:
What exactly is this anti-white policy then?

Well if you want inarguable hard pressed into law examples, there's affirmative action, which no matter what one can say about it in theory, in practice it now exists as a means of determining things such as higher education application that takes race as a serious consideration of one's worth of entry into a program (despite the fact this actively harms every single demographic without a single exception and helps literally no one in the long run), as well as the allocation of resources for those in need, which has whites, particularly white men, at the bottom of the pecking order (in the UK there's even been studies to show this, meaning if you're a poor white man in the UK who needs help, you've literally got the least privilege of anyone without exception).

Affermative action exists because of hiring discrimination. People of different complexions with the same level of education are disproportionately unemployed. Even in a scenario where all candidates for a job have the same qualifications, having a darker skin-colour or a name that doesn't sound english can worsen your chances. Not to mention companies try to avoid hiring younger women because they don't want to risk having to pay maternity leave in future.

CyanCat47:

Affermative action exists because of hiring discrimination.

And 50 years later it's now its own form of hiring discrimination where people who are qualified for work and education are passed over for those who are not due to the colour of their skin.

CyanCat47:

Zontar:

CyanCat47:
What exactly is this anti-white policy then?

Well if you want inarguable hard pressed into law examples, there's affirmative action, which no matter what one can say about it in theory, in practice it now exists as a means of determining things such as higher education application that takes race as a serious consideration of one's worth of entry into a program (despite the fact this actively harms every single demographic without a single exception and helps literally no one in the long run), as well as the allocation of resources for those in need, which has whites, particularly white men, at the bottom of the pecking order (in the UK there's even been studies to show this, meaning if you're a poor white man in the UK who needs help, you've literally got the least privilege of anyone without exception).

Affermative action exists because of hiring discrimination. People of different complexions with the same level of education are disproportionately unemployed. Even in a scenario where all candidates for a job have the same qualifications, having a darker skin-colour or a name that doesn't sound english can worsen your chances. Not to mention companies try to avoid hiring younger women because they don't want to risk having to pay maternity leave in future.

Even in a scenario where all candidates for a job have the same qualifications, having a darker skin-colour or a name that doesn't sound english can worsen your chances.

The problem here is that this is assumed to be true for every employer and every instance of employment application. Even if statistically, POC are less likely to be hired, the given "solution" here is to bake into law or company policies a system of worsening the chances of employment for those who are white and/or male.
So to correct a perceived implicit bias against POC, the "solution" is to have explicit rules that give them an advantage against white males. So that in the situation of a white male and a black woman with identical qualifications applying for the same position, the rule there states that the job MUST go to the minority.
The white man is fresh out of luck. He is being punished simply for the colour of his skin. The HR manager is not allowed to use his own judgement as to which of the two employees s/he thinks is best suited, the rule states that they must pass over the white man for the black woman.

erttheking:

RikuoAmero:
Snip

So just skimming my post huh? It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring the majority of my posts when they argue with me. As for your links, one seems to be more about examining the white race as a concept than it is attacking anyone for being white. The other really fails to jump out at me as a problem, so you're going to have to elaborate.

So, you gonna address the rest of my posts or are we done here? I'm really not in a mood for a post where I point out hundreds of thousand of black people are put in jail at a disproportion rate compared to white people and to have a reply to it be about a college course you don't like. It really shows the massive gap between what the people who claim white racism is a massive problem think is a problem and what I consider to be massive racism problems.

It really says something about you that you honestly don't care that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are going through college literally being taught to hate a given demographic of society.
Is this a case of "We must solve black problems first before I'll care about white problems"? It has a strong odor of HeForShe, where men are told to help women, and then, if the women feel like it, they might help out with men problems.
I'm not trying to turn things into a competition. I'll leave that for the SJWs and their progressive stack mentality. I just want to point out that yes, there is racism against whites, and it is literally being taught to students.

RikuoAmero:

erttheking:

RikuoAmero:
Snip

So just skimming my post huh? It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring the majority of my posts when they argue with me. As for your links, one seems to be more about examining the white race as a concept than it is attacking anyone for being white. The other really fails to jump out at me as a problem, so you're going to have to elaborate.

So, you gonna address the rest of my posts or are we done here? I'm really not in a mood for a post where I point out hundreds of thousand of black people are put in jail at a disproportion rate compared to white people and to have a reply to it be about a college course you don't like. It really shows the massive gap between what the people who claim white racism is a massive problem think is a problem and what I consider to be massive racism problems.

It really says something about you that you honestly don't care that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are going through college literally being taught to hate a given demographic of society.
Is this a case of "We must solve black problems first before I'll care about white problems"? It has a strong odor of HeForShe, where men are told to help women, and then, if the women feel like it, they might help out with men problems.
I'm not trying to turn things into a competition. I'll leave that for the SJWs and their progressive stack mentality. I just want to point out that yes, there is racism against whites, and it is literally being taught to students.

...The fuck kind of college or University has hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of students? Like, I'm all for hyperbole but that's a little ridiculous.

RikuoAmero:

erttheking:

RikuoAmero:
Snip

So just skimming my post huh? It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring the majority of my posts when they argue with me. As for your links, one seems to be more about examining the white race as a concept than it is attacking anyone for being white. The other really fails to jump out at me as a problem, so you're going to have to elaborate.

So, you gonna address the rest of my posts or are we done here? I'm really not in a mood for a post where I point out hundreds of thousand of black people are put in jail at a disproportion rate compared to white people and to have a reply to it be about a college course you don't like. It really shows the massive gap between what the people who claim white racism is a massive problem think is a problem and what I consider to be massive racism problems.

It really says something about you that you honestly don't care that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are going through college literally being taught to hate a given demographic of society.
Is this a case of "We must solve black problems first before I'll care about white problems"? It has a strong odor of HeForShe, where men are told to help women, and then, if the women feel like it, they might help out with men problems.
I'm not trying to turn things into a competition. I'll leave that for the SJWs and their progressive stack mentality. I just want to point out that yes, there is racism against whites, and it is literally being taught to students.

How are college students being taught to hate any given demographic of society? Which demographic of society?

RikuoAmero:

erttheking:

RikuoAmero:
Snip

So just skimming my post huh? It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring the majority of my posts when they argue with me. As for your links, one seems to be more about examining the white race as a concept than it is attacking anyone for being white. The other really fails to jump out at me as a problem, so you're going to have to elaborate.

So, you gonna address the rest of my posts or are we done here? I'm really not in a mood for a post where I point out hundreds of thousand of black people are put in jail at a disproportion rate compared to white people and to have a reply to it be about a college course you don't like. It really shows the massive gap between what the people who claim white racism is a massive problem think is a problem and what I consider to be massive racism problems.

It really says something about you that you honestly don't care that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are going through college literally being taught to hate a given demographic of society.
Is this a case of "We must solve black problems first before I'll care about white problems"? It has a strong odor of HeForShe, where men are told to help women, and then, if the women feel like it, they might help out with men problems.
I'm not trying to turn things into a competition. I'll leave that for the SJWs and their progressive stack mentality. I just want to point out that yes, there is racism against whites, and it is literally being taught to students.

...millions? Millions. Question, what college did you go to? Because I go to the University of Massachusetts Lowell and the only thing I got taught us "you need to be aware that there are problems non accepted people face". That seems to be the general approach too. So what college did you go to where you were exposed to this massive racism you're so terrified of. And since most college professors are white, are you saying they're self loathing?
And it sure feels like you're trying to make this a competition. Kind of tipped that dominio when you claimed millions of white people are taught to hate themselves. Funny. You think I would've met some by now. And I'm sorry, black problems before white problems? What the fuck is a white problem? Seriously, what issue (real issues) are exclusively faced by white people?

RikuoAmero:
I'm not trying to turn things into a competition.

Yes you are. Your posting history and rhetoric make it pretty obvious that this is all one big measuring contest for you. I wouldn't mind so much if you would just own it, but you obviously lack the courage in your convictions to do so.

Zontar:

CyanCat47:

Affermative action exists because of hiring discrimination.

And 50 years later it's now its own form of hiring discrimination where people who are qualified for work and education are passed over for those who are not due to the colour of their skin.

Anyone else catching the underlining implication of this statement?

Like in a scenario where a white man and a black man are both up for a job, do you actually know the black man is less qualified, or is that just something your assuming?

Hell on the same page any confirmation that the white guy in this hypothetical situation is more qualified then the black one? What if he's some smug fratboy slob who never actually studied a day in his life and is just using his wall street connections from college to land a job he has zero interest in actually performing?

Because it sure sounds like, at least from where I am standing, you seem to be defaulting to the idea that while a white straight man obviously got his role through merit (see the myth of meritocracy above) a non white person must have gotten it solely through affirmative action and I bet he doesn't even know what the job is and there's probably some poor starving white man out there who's suffering because of this evil law.

And you know what? That assumption right there? Women, LGBT members and persons of color and even people with disabilities such as myself have to deal with that shit all the time. If they enter a workforce the assumption is always at best 'look a diversity hire' or even as bad as 'bet she fucked her way to the top'. The default benefit of the doubt we assign to white guys entering the workforce that they must know what they are doing vanishes the second its a woman or a person of color and suddenly they have to leap through an absurd amount of hoops just to prove themselves 'worthy' of the role. If a black man gets a role in a science lab he has to be the equivalent of a combination of Tesla and Turing level intellect to be considered 'valid' while a white man just has to have an engineering degree.
A man and a woman at a call center can offer the exact same advice and the woman gets scorned and harassed while the man gets thanked. This shit has happened too many times to count, I have seen stories of it circling online and I have also heard so many female friends complain about it.
To say nothing of the near astronomical odds in some fields of employment of a black person even making it to the interview status. Any employer can decide 'Nah I don't like this guy Malik Ohmar Ali for reasons I literally don't have to explain. Now this guy Michael Whiteywhite Anderson, I can get behind him for reasons that I also literally don't have to explain. Ah well I'm sure Malik whatever can find a job elsewhere'.

Does the fact that shit like this happened so regularly that there even NEEDED to be laws like this to give minorities a chance seriously not enter into your thought process at all?

Funny thing is we actually, sort of, agree on affirmative action. I don't like it. I think it's bullshit and it does a lot more harm then good. As you say it does cause a lot of problems for white people applying for jobs against minorities and in turn the specter of its existence allows the bigoted assumption detailed above to linger and continue to cause workplace discrimination Unfortunately if it were to suddenly disappear I don't know how adversely that could end up effecting the various minority communities. Without any regulation or oversight of any kind I can't guarantee that it wouldn't once again become a lot harder for minorities to get jobs in traditionally 'white' fields (you know, the ones that actually make decent amounts of money) to the point where it could basically become like the 1960's all over again. Because this is the thing, currently affirmative action might be the only reason a lot of dark skinned people even have decent jobs at all.
And if you honestly think that there's no way they could have earned that job on their own without that, without even considering the possibility that maybe they actually are qualified, something you would likely never even ask about a white person... well...

Where we disagree is ultimately what affirmative action is and where it leads.

I look at affirmative action as a flawed way of getting there, I think of it like a crutch after a leg is broken. It's unstable, wobbly and frustrating as Hell. But I don't have an alternative because my leg in its current state is shattered beyond repair. So I grit my teeth and struggle on despite it, content in the knowledge that as awful as it is my leg will eventually heal and then I can walk properly on two strong healthy legs and create a nice safe balance. This crutch is shit, but it is not permanent. I view affirmative action as a clumsy but perhaps necessary reaction to a longstanding societal racism that is now starting to bite back on white demographics who up until this point had been unknowingly benefiting from the very racist sentiments that caused affirmative action to rise in the first place. Oh hey that's like a kind of privilege but one only white people really got to experience.They should really come up with a name for that.

You seem to view it as some kind of deliberate act of malice, a vengeful display of hatred and bigotry and a sign that white people are to be purged and slaughtered wholesale just for existing. Because apparently us people on the left just love to cackle wickedly and masturbate to the sight of white people not getting employed and have an agenda in place far more sinister rather then just wanting black people to actually get a foothold in society. In turn that this 'agenda' is by far and a way the worst possible example of discrimination in the entire Western Hemisphere and completely negates disproportionate levels of police violence, longer incarceration sentences for the same crimes, laws drafted specifically to make it harder for African Americans to vote, policies and political parties dedicated specifically to making your life harder and whole subsets of humanity having to fight tooth nail and claw for literally generations to get to a point where things are 'less shit' only to then turn around and see the people who benefited while they suffered suddenly declaring that things need to be back to the 'good old days' they used to be much to their horror.
Because all of that is just fake news and a grandiose conspiracy that will be used as justification for the evil white genocide massacre that will definitely start any day now. There is literally no racism in the world except against white people and the white identity is at risk.

I mean granted I am actually a proud overlord of the reptilian SJW New World order and white people's skulls are just perfect for nutrients and incubating my offspring so you know, maybe you've caught us. Hisssssssssssssssss... pisssszzzzzaaaaaa gaaaaaaaate isssssss reeeeeeeeallllsssssssssssss.

Again before you get any funny ideas I do not like that white people are struggling to find work in situations like affirmative action, hence why I would like to be able to abolish it at some point. It would be great if we lived in a perfectly equal meritocracy where everyone started on equal footing and so everyone was judged solely on their merits but to go with my leg example above the foundation of that was broken early on and its ripple effects are constantly felt. Maybe one day we as a society will get to that stage but I'll tell you right now it's going to take a hell of a lot longer to do so if people keep missing the point of why the system is how it is in the first place.
Because while it is truly awful that white people might get passed over for jobs against a black person, that is something terrible that could happen let's say 50% of the time. Without it however the average black person might be in a situation where they can't get a job 100% of the time.

And you might be okay with the politics of 'Fuck you got mine' but I'm not.
Hence why I fucking hate Donald Trump and everything he stands for and represents.

erttheking:

ineptelephant:

StatusNil:
image

You notice that he's posting a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, despite the fact he's one of the people that would probably get angry if anyone posted his white moderate quote. It kind of reminds me of something John Oliver said. That people would rather vote for Martin Luther King Jr.'s ghost over Trump or Hillary "assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like."

The sanitized Martin Luther King Jr. is too centrist, actually. He wasn't changed to be more palatable to white people, he was changed to be less threatening to the economic order.

Wrex Brogan:
/quote]

...The fuck kind of college or University has hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of students? Like, I'm all for hyperbole but that's a little ridiculous.

Not the college itself, its the subterranian reptilian breeding grounds beneath them. In our gestastion pools we can incubate billions of larva all perfectly waiting for their chance to awaken from their slumber and take to the surface. We shall begin by teaching the foolish mammals that racism and sexism and homophobia is 'bad' (the fools) and then we shall begin our plan in earnest. We shall begin by infecting all the world's pizza and soon all shall sing the tune of the mighty Serpent Queen Arni'Tah Sark'e'Zizian and offer their support and genetic codes to our cause. The few surviving red pilled white men we will slaughter with ease and then once all the white people are destroyed we shall use their freshly flayed pale pigmented skins to power our genesis device and reshape this Earth in our image.
HAIL THE MIGHT OF THE SJW OVERLORDS. YOUR DAY OF RECKONING HAS COME WHITE PEOPLE!

... What like that's honestly more ridiculous then what he's saying?

I'm pretty much indistinguishable from the average white person, but most of these "pity me, for we white people are the real victims!" folk would be happy to shove me in an oven, so forgive me while I play them a sad song on the tiniest violin I can find.

Vrex360:
snip

You know... I like you. Just wanted to put that out there. Reading your post made my day a whole lot better.

Vrex360:
Super Snip

After Psychedelic Diamond complimented this post, I went back and read it, all of it... (wow thats alot too).

You deserve to know that atleast some people read it. Dont know how many people who disagree with you will bother though. But even I who agree completely with you had some self-reflection reading this.

Mainly the part about black identity versus white identity. Even I racially identify as Irish, Italian and Spanish with some Gypsy thrown in as opposed to black people who dont have the luxury of that information most of the time.

Seanchaidh:

erttheking:

ineptelephant:

You notice that he's posting a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, despite the fact he's one of the people that would probably get angry if anyone posted his white moderate quote. It kind of reminds me of something John Oliver said. That people would rather vote for Martin Luther King Jr.'s ghost over Trump or Hillary "assuming he only said the three quotes that white people like."

The sanitized Martin Luther King Jr. is too centrist, actually. He wasn't changed to be more palatable to white people, he was changed to be less threatening to the economic order.

Eh it's both, the government sanitized his economic views so they could make MLK day and all the streets named after him and only acknowledge his statements on race, but his views on race were also actively being sanitized so that people could shame groups like the Black Panthers by trying to frame his views as being as vanilla and non-challenging as possible.

We got the kid friendly MLK growing up as he was whitewashed into a mix of his "I have a dream" speech with a memetic version of Ghandi's pacifism; holding him up as an example of what civil rights protesters "should" behave like, with things like the Reagan and Nixon administration selling him as a bludgeon moderates could use to shame any group that got too uppity.

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