GOP wants to tax waived income for grad school

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/us/politics/tax-plan-house-senate-differences.html

http://fortune.com/2017/11/08/graduate-students-say-gop-tax-plan-could-increase-their-taxes-by-nearly-300/

So this is fucked. Basically graduate students who work a stipend, who do research for the university, get some money and have their tuition waived. Well, in the new proposed GOP tax plan, that's going to count as income. That is to say, if you make 30,000 a year on your stipend, and got 45,000 a year tuition waived, the GOP wants to tax you like you make 75,000 a year. Amazing, fucking amazing. So it turns out that there are ways to tax people for things that aren't directly related to income, and instead of using it on the 1%, who constantly dodge taxes in a myriad of ways I couldn't even begin to list, the GOP smacks graduate students who are probably barely making ends meet?

Speaking as a grad student who is taking 23,000 dollars in debt to get his masters in education, the people who penned this can go deep throat a cactus. If I was actually in a field where I could do research, I'd be so fucked that it wouldn't be funny. This is a pretty fucking anti-education move. My best friends may not be able to go to grad school if this goes through. One studies botany and the other the neuro science, and the GOP told both of them to go jump in a lake.

The GOP wants American jobs. But only if the people working those jobs vote GOP. Everyone else can apparently go get fucked.

Wait, how can a waived fee be considered income? The student doesn't actually make $45,000 extra. He just doesn't have a $45,000 bill to pay off with whatever income he gets working an actual job that pays...

Silentpony:
Wait, how can a waived fee be considered income? The student doesn't actually make $45,000 extra. He just doesn't have a $45,000 bill to pay off with whatever income he gets working an actual job that pays...

Hell if I know man...hell if I know...the GOP doesn't seem to care about that.

This sounds..bad..
I get how the stipend would be hit by taxes, but the waived fees?
Tax on income..you didn't get..?
Then again, not putting a limit or tax on waived fees would open up the field for some serious corruption I'm thinking.
I'm sure I don't get the whole picture since I'm not familiar with the situation but surely it should make some sense.

Also, the whole "deep-throat cactus" was a little off-kilter. Especially combined with all the "fucks".
I get the anger, but since this is a more serious venue to discuss important topics.. I don't think such language belongs here.

Reading the first link make it seem like the House and Senate disagree though..Which is which? I thought both were GOP, sort of, since GOP won both President and ...parliament?
I'm probably in way over my head. Never too late to learn though.
The second link didn't work for me. Kept loading.

erttheking:

Silentpony:
Wait, how can a waived fee be considered income? The student doesn't actually make $45,000 extra. He just doesn't have a $45,000 bill to pay off with whatever income he gets working an actual job that pays...

Hell if I know man...hell if I know...the GOP doesn't seem to care about that.

This seems very poorly thought out, if indeed the GOP thought at all. Maybe they're just throwing everything against the wall, seeing what sticks, and then cutting the BS, like this tax on waived fees, and then claiming they compromised with the Dems?

that sounds very similiar to a law passed years ago in which forgiven debt counts as income. It is the same concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_of_Debt_(COD)_Income

"The standard definition of income is found in a United States Supreme Court case entitled Commissioner v. Glenshaw Glass Co.[3] The Court defined income as 1) accession to wealth; 2) that is clearly realized; and 3) over which the taxpayer has complete dominion.[4]

Prior to this decision, the Court had already determined that the cancellation of debt was "a freeing of assets."[5] Essentially, when debt is cancelled, money that would have been used to pay that debt is now free to be used on anything else the taxpayer wants. This is also known as "accession to wealth." Therefore, under Glenshaw Glass, it seems only natural to include COD income in gross income."

So, as defined by the Supreme Court, waving the tuition fee can be considered income. Weirdly enough, this hits private school the hardest.

I wonder if they can get around this by charging those students one dollar for tuition.

Dear GOP,

You guys are the ones with all the money. The only way you're going to get any REAL upsurge in cashflow is to attack each other.

Sincerely,
FalloutJack

Yes, I am saying 'You two! Fight to the death!'.

Well that's one way to annihilate the scientific community... Christ. Why? Graduate researchers and post-docs basically find out half the shit there is in scientific research and exploration.

Why not tax the rich motherfuckers who make all the money off the back of their research?

They already live in conditions best described as 'overly packed prison cells' due to the non-pay they get... now you're going to take away their capacity to eat?

Addendum_Forthcoming:
Well that's one way to annihilate the scientific community... Christ. Why? Graduate researchers and post-docs basically find out half the shit there is in scientific research and exploration.

Why not tax the rich motherfuckers who make all the money off the back of their research?

They already live in conditions best described as 'overly packed prison cells' due to the non-pay they get... now you're going to take away their capacity to eat?

You're assuming the want a scientific community outside of the defense industry.

altnameJag:
You're assuming the want a scientific community outside of the defense industry.

Depends on the contract. When Trump froze new departmental spending, it was also for things like psychology research funding for coming up with better models of preventative early intervention psychotherapy systems for soldiers with a known history of bank foreclosures while on setvice, and providing the war-injured counselling to cope with their experiences.

Hell... it was even fields like one associate in my similar field of neuroscientific research for examining the particulars of battlefield injuries and next generation neuroprosthetics. Heaven forbid if soldiers who serve their country be granted a modicum of respect and be given the means to re-acclimate to civil society.

These fuckwits are so quick to send soldiers to fight, but so quick to forget their service. You'd think politicians would be more cautious about how they treat those they've trained to effectively kill at a minimum of 300 yards... You'd think that they might remember a certain little presidential assassination... made all the fucking headlines.

Addendum_Forthcoming:
-Snorp-

Yeah, but these are the same people that only care about our soldiers so long as they're abroad. Once - if - they come back home, they don't give a shit unless it's to ship them back out. Still, they'll campaign and drone on and on about how it's such a tragedy that we have so many unemployed/homeless veterans, yet do nothing that would actually address the issue.

Well, its not like students don't have to bend over and take it up where the sun don't shine without lube to beguine with.

Seriously; I'll be half surprised if California doesn't do this first.

The GOP's new plan?

'How to fuck over the next generation of voters so we lose even MORE.'

You wonder why the GOP supports denying the right to vote against students and non-whites?
The majority of their base at this point looks like the casting call for 'Grumpy Old Men'.

Addendum_Forthcoming:

altnameJag:
You're assuming the want a scientific community outside of the defense industry.

Depends on the contract. When Trump froze new departmental spending, it was also for things like psychology research funding for coming up with better models of preventative early intervention psychotherapy systems for soldiers with a known history of bank foreclosures while on setvice, and providing the war-injured counselling to cope with their experiences.

Hell... it was even fields like one associate in my similar field of neuroscientific research for examining the particulars of battlefield injuries and next generation neuroprosthetics. Heaven forbid if soldiers who serve their country be granted a modicum of respect and be given the means to re-acclimate to civil society.

These fuckwits are so quick to send soldiers to fight, but so quick to forget their service. You'd think politicians would be more cautious about how they treat those they've trained to effectively kill at a minimum of 300 yards... You'd think that they might remember a certain little presidential assassination... made all the fucking headlines.

Was Kennedy's shooter a former soldier?

Tanis:

'How to fuck over the next generation of voters so we lose even MORE.'

Lose even more than what? They won.

EDIT: Ohhh, unless you mean lose more voters to political apathy. Yeah, that could happen, but what makes anyone think the GOP are interested in healthy voting numbers? They've tried their hand at voter suppression before, and low turnout helped them greatly in 2016.

students should just put their waived income into overseas tax havens if they wanted to avoid paying taxes

Students are feared by hardcore conservatives. That's one reoccurring theme I find hard to ignore over the years. Intelligent youth might actually see through their bullshit or plain just intimidate them. Both perhaps.

Sounds just like what the democrats did a few years back with their debt forgiveness for college students. The forgiven debt was classified as income and they were taxed on it. Really seems like another case of "its different when we do it"

BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

inu-kun:
BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

Caps lock doesn't make your point stronger, and I'll have to ask who said that taxes would help the underprivileged when they were the ones being taxed. That seems to mainly be a GOP "trickle down economics" mindset, and it's still BS.

Okay, as a grad student, this pisses me off.

Granted, I'm not in the states to do my master's program, but I was very close to staying in the states to do it. It's bad enough that applying for grants to pay for grad school is hard as hell, but you don't typically get it all covered in one or two grants for one semester. You're lucky if you get it covered for a year.

It would appear that they're discouraging people from getting a higher education since that would not be in their best interest. I mean, higher educated people, for the most part, didn't get them elected, so I guess their strategy is to keep the people dumb.

Thanks GOP, you fuck nuggets.

inu-kun:
BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

Did anyone claim that more taxes ON the underprivelaged were good? As far as trying to ignore shitty GOP actions by deflecting to liberals and ignoring the shitty thing the people in charge are doing this is the most retarded I've seen. Although I'm sure you'll outdo yourself by tomorrow.

Silentpony:
Wait, how can a waived fee be considered income? The student doesn't actually make $45,000 extra. He just doesn't have a $45,000 bill to pay off with whatever income he gets working an actual job that pays...

The proposed tax cuts to the wealthy would pretty much gut the economy longterm. But the government has to make money somehow, so they're robbing the little guys blind, which is their favorite pastime anyway, to pay for aforementioned tax cuts and every other fuckin' thing that the government is supposed to provide.

US grad students and , as opposed to undergrad students, consist of a surprising high number of foreigners.
And we all know how much GOP hates those pesky aliens. That they are also aware that universities tend to be more liberal than average Americans makes it even wors.

And they couldn't really kill Obamacare and somewhere the money for the tax cuts for the rich has to come from. So... makes a lot of sense.

IOverall, yes, stuff likes that really hurts. Postgraduates can already choose most universities worldwide. They don't have to choose ones that will ruin them financially.

Fiz_The_Toaster:

It would appear that they're discouraging people from getting a higher education since that would not be in their best interest. I mean, higher educated people, for the most part, didn't get them elected, so I guess their strategy is to keep the people dumb.

I find it incredibly depressing how politics has become (although arguable always was) not about how to better your country but how to get and stay elected.

erttheking:

inu-kun:
BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

Caps lock doesn't make your point stronger, and I'll have to ask who said that taxes would help the underprivileged when they were the ones being taxed. That seems to mainly be a GOP "trickle down economics" mindset, and it's still BS.

But university is the pathway to being successful in life! All those people raking millions out of their gender studies degree should be taxed already in university to bring the most out of the poor people who do not have the time or grades to go to college.

inu-kun:

erttheking:

inu-kun:
BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

Caps lock doesn't make your point stronger, and I'll have to ask who said that taxes would help the underprivileged when they were the ones being taxed. That seems to mainly be a GOP "trickle down economics" mindset, and it's still BS.

But university is the pathway to being successful in life! All those people raking millions out of their gender studies degree should be taxed already in university to bring the most out of the poor people who do not have the time or grades to go to college.

That was quick.

inu-kun:

erttheking:

inu-kun:
BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

Caps lock doesn't make your point stronger, and I'll have to ask who said that taxes would help the underprivileged when they were the ones being taxed. That seems to mainly be a GOP "trickle down economics" mindset, and it's still BS.

But university is the pathway to being successful in life! All those people raking millions out of their gender studies degree should be taxed already in university to bring the most out of the poor people who do not have the time or grades to go to college.

That's not how progressive taxation works.

kiri3tsubasa:
Sounds just like what the democrats did a few years back with their debt forgiveness for college students. The forgiven debt was classified as income and they were taxed on it. Really seems like another case of "its different when we do it"

Are you talking about this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/your-money/for-student-borrowers-a-tax-time-bomb.html
https://twocents.lifehacker.com/beware-taxes-when-your-student-loan-debt-is-forgiven-1711124816

inu-kun:

erttheking:

inu-kun:
BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

Caps lock doesn't make your point stronger, and I'll have to ask who said that taxes would help the underprivileged when they were the ones being taxed. That seems to mainly be a GOP "trickle down economics" mindset, and it's still BS.

But university is the pathway to being successful in life! All those people raking millions out of their gender studies degree should be taxed already in university to bring the most out of the poor people who do not have the time or grades to go to college.

I have to ask. Is this sarcasm?
I get that whatever one side seem to hate, one feels compelled to defend , but do you really believe that taxing waived income is a good thing?

Could you explain your reasoning to me, in a plainer manner, if it's not too much trouble?

inu-kun:

erttheking:

inu-kun:
BUT TAXES ARE GOOD FOR THE UNDERPRIVILAGED, NO???

Caps lock doesn't make your point stronger, and I'll have to ask who said that taxes would help the underprivileged when they were the ones being taxed. That seems to mainly be a GOP "trickle down economics" mindset, and it's still BS.

But university is the pathway to being successful in life! All those people raking millions out of their gender studies degree should be taxed already in university to bring the most out of the poor people who do not have the time or grades to go to college.

image

I'm sorry, it feels like you're trying to take shots at so many people it's all kind of rolling into itself and rendering the whole thing kind of moot. I know you like to constantly take pot shots at gender studies, but that kind of has nothing to do with what we're talking about. And, once again, these are not the "Rich" people the left advocates for higher taxes on.

kiri3tsubasa:
Sounds just like what the democrats did a few years back with their debt forgiveness for college students. The forgiven debt was classified as income and they were taxed on it. Really seems like another case of "its different when we do it"

No, it's nothing like that - as gentle application of rudimentary mathematics could calculate.

Adam Jensen:

Silentpony:
Wait, how can a waived fee be considered income? The student doesn't actually make $45,000 extra. He just doesn't have a $45,000 bill to pay off with whatever income he gets working an actual job that pays...

The proposed tax cuts to the wealthy would pretty much gut the economy longterm. But the government has to make money somehow, so they're robbing the little guys blind, which is their favorite pastime anyway, to pay for aforementioned tax cuts and every other fuckin' thing that the government is supposed to provide.

I get that, but how do you explain it to a tax accountant? What do they put the waived tuition down as? How can you ask for payslips to show income on income that you never got?

Silentpony:

I get that, but how do you explain it to a tax accountant? What do they put the waived tuition down as? How can you ask for payslips to show income on income that you never got?

In my experience, if you are excused fees, you get a letter saying so.

And there's your documentation.

Vendor-Lazarus:

kiri3tsubasa:
Sounds just like what the democrats did a few years back with their debt forgiveness for college students. The forgiven debt was classified as income and they were taxed on it. Really seems like another case of "its different when we do it"

I have to ask. Is this sarcasm?
I get that whatever one side seem to hate, one feels compelled to defend , but do you really believe that taxing waived income is a good thing?

Could you explain your reasoning to me, in a plainer manner, if it's not too much trouble?

Sure, back in 2014 I had student loans, they were forgiven by then president obama, however when I filed my taxes for the next year I learned that the debt forgiveness was classified as income and I had to pay taxes on that. So yeah, no real difference.

CyanCat47:
Was Kennedy's shooter a former soldier?

Not just a soldier with a gun, he was a Marine sharpshooter. 212.

He did fall to 190 odd (which is marksman) later in his career, but that's still a pretty darn good shot.

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