Why Now is it ok for Women (and the occasional man) to talk abut sexual abuse?

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What it says on the tin: Why is it now that people are finding the courage to stand up to their abusers when it comes to sexual abuse and assault en mass when dealing with people of power be it an actor, producers, politicians, or even civil rights leaders. And while a portion of these are going to be fraudulent or at the very least hope it is, the sheer number of them have to have a grain of truth to them.

Yet, why now?

Its not like this hasn't been talked about in the past. The TV trope of Casting Couch has been around for as long as entertainment, and has been referenced in even kids stuff like the Batman Cartoon of the early when they combined him with Superman cartoon, and earlier with The Godfather.

heck, say what you will about Seth McFarlin: He's made several references over several of these men's activiites. Heck, he's gone on to record about his comments on Wenstein after a close friend told him about what he did to her, and made those jokes in a fit of anger.

So why now?

Double Toasted figure it might have something to do with social media might have something to do with it, but we've had Facebook and Twitter for a while.

What are you thoughts on it.

Anybody who has worked in the corporate space knows it was always pretty bad.

I think the high-stress environment we've also turned the jobs market into is likea dam bursting. Like in Australia, gone are the days of the permanent contract. So given everyone is on 6 month contracts (and sometimes even shorter) you create a fertile grounds for high-stress productivity in order to stay employed ... and you couple that with employers with ever more powers to make demands on employees who have everything to lose with the contraction of the welfare state, cost of housing, general inflationary trends, etc

... well it's a open flame in a mill.

Sure it will be safe 99% of the time, but one day that grindstone will be working one too many bushels ... that boss will skim one too many ounces off the hard work of others ... that air will be a few particulates too thick with flour born from demands of ever greater productivity ... and suddenly the place will explode.

Suddenly you have an abused workforce that might not have complained because they've worked in a place for years .... suddenly having no real qualms given the changeover rate of staff is so very, very high ... and the fuse people have is thus so much smaller.

I can only imagine the U.S. is even worse.

It's also one of the reasons why I think Hollywood is less fortified to these things than other industries, as Hollywood has always been a people-eater interms of reliability of work and the culture of egomania.

Harvey Weinstein changed the national conversation. It's a domino effect: a few people coming forward emboldened another few, that whole group emboldened another few. And so on and so on. The response of the general public, while certainly not perfect, has been good enough to keep the dominos falling.

It's always been acceptable for women to come forward about being sexually assaulted, it's just that there's such a culture of hostility towards women who try to report it (Girl gets raped at a frathouse while she's passed out drunk = stupid drunk slut hooks up with three guys and regrets it the next day and is trying to ruin their lives, according to a lot of media outlets)

I guess because ultimately between Donald Trump getting elected despite bragging about sexual assault on tape and the subsequent women's march there has been a lot of anger brewing that a man can literally forcibly grab a woman's genitals without her consent and brag about it and millions of people will still vote him into office despite that fact. So with all this anger and comradely between victims brewing it was inevitable.

Then Weinstein fell and he was like a huge tent pole to all the creepy Hollywood sexual predators so after 60 plus women came out against him suddenly many other women were doing the same to talk about their own abusers. Honestly this year has been very eye opening for me, we all knew about the gross casting couch stuff. I never knew how predatory it could actually get though and often young actresses simply could not say no. To say nothing of the stories of Weinstein cornering women in hotel rooms and jerking off on them, forcing himself on women who could not have been more clearly saying 'no' and then there are stories about producers playing around with sleeping or unconscious women or women who are so drunk that they can't really walk or talk or even comprehend where they are or what's going on vaguely remembering 'something' sexual happening to them. And now that the famous rich guys are getting taken down a peg, naturally it trickles down into general society and also into politics, hence Roy Moore.
But even more so women are finally just talking about instances of sexual harassment and sexual abuse that happens to them in their daily lives (#metoo) to make it clear why it is something they are sick of having to ignore or brush aside.

I do think we need to be careful not to just agree with every social media shout out against every person because while I tend to side with the accuser naturally there have been false accusations in the past and for a variety of reasons and a witch hunt that could potentially destroy someone's life is not in any way helpful.

But still if you wanna know why it's happening now it's simple, it was always acceptable but now women the world over watched a pussy grabbing serial rapist grope his way into the whitehouse and maybe they just got tired of having to watch as their abusers walked away unscathed. And after Weinstein fell it proved to the world that powerful men who have gotten away with being predators for years can still be taken down with enough solidarity between people. So the floodgates are opening and what we are seeing is a general sense of 'we're not gonna take it anymore'

Because, as much as people like to talk about how appalled we are by rape, we're mainly appalled by it when it's done at a distance by someone we already didn't respect. We like to think out society is nice and clean, and therefore no respected members of society could do anything so disgusting. So a lot of women who try and come out about their abuse get ignores, or even worse, attacked by people who want to believe in a falsely peaceful status quo.

But now, a cascade has recently been started and women are learning that, shock of all shocks, people will actually listen to them.

Nobody wants to be the first, second, fifteenth or hundredth person to come forward, because they will be attacked, rather than rapists. After a number of people speak out, people have to stop pretending that it's just a witch hunt and start listening (to an extent) to victims.

Mostly money. The Weinstein thing only came to light when he couldn't reach deals for hush money with enough women. I think it was Rose Mcgowan who was getting 1mil a year to keep quiet, she wanted to up it to 5, Harvey offered 3, so she can forward.

For the last 20 years everyone was happy to cash the check and let these bastards do their thing, so long as the checks were flowing.

Because Weinstein actually went down.

The idea that consequences were actually a thing embolden a hell of a lot of people. Remember, this is also Cosby taking a hit and O'Reilly getting fired.

Silentpony:
I think it was Rose Mcgowan who was getting 1mil a year to keep quiet, she wanted to up it to 5, Harvey offered 3, so she can forward.

Would you care to provide a cite for this allegation against Rose, or withdraw?

For the last 20 years everyone was happy to cash the check and let these bastards do their thing, so long as the checks were flowing.

Again: care to provide a cite of how many "checks flowed?"

starbear:
SNIP

Yeah, got ya'

http://deadline.com/2017/10/rose-mcgowan-harvey-weinstein-million-dollars-hush-money-1202197064/

http://www.tmz.com/2017/10/29/rose-mcgowan-offered-1-million-hush-money-harvey-weinstein-counter/

McGowan was paid $100,000 in the 90s to keep quiet, and when she threatened to come forward a few months ago, Weinstein offered her $1million.
I do have to withdraw the $5mil figure, as it was actually $6mil.

But after more women came forward, that $6mil offer was withdrawn and McGowan came forward.

Women are coming forward now because people will believe them

It wasn't 10 years ago when accusing a powerful man of sexual assault hurt the woman

My guess is that a lot of them didn't see it as sexual assault. Back in college I was grabbed by the arse and didn't think much of it. Now looking back on it I view what happened differently. There's more public awareness now and more people are seeing events that happened to them in the light of new information.

I think it is likely a result of a homegrown "cull the unbelievers" from the liberal left.
It wasn't unknown (Seth McFarlin for example) so the only thing that must have kept it hushed was it being more beneficial financially or politically to news outlets than exposed.

So either some agreements between the two were stopped or the inmates are running the asylum and claim how they are fighting evil while commiting self cannibalism.

Silentpony:

starbear:
SNIP

Yeah, got ya'

No you haven't. You literally got everything wrong. She never got a million a year as you claim. She got a one off-payment of $100,000 20 years ago, that has long run out. The Deadline cite claims she was only offered a million, she never got a million. The TMZ primary source (primary sources are much better than tabloid nonsense) said:

"I had all these people I'm paying telling me to take it so that I could fund my art," Ms. McGowan said in an interview. She responded by asking for $6 million, part counteroffer, part slow torture of her former tormentor, she said. "I figured I could probably have gotten him up to three," she said. "But I was like - ew, gross, you're disgusting, I don't want your money, that would make me feel disgusting."

She said she told her lawyer to pull the offer within a day of The New York Times publishing an article that detailed decades of Mr. Weinstein's alleged sexual harassment, aggression and misconduct toward women, as well as at least seven other settlements he had reached with accusers.

So you not only have to withdraw the 5 million figure, you have to withdraw the "million a year" to keep it quiet, and withdraw Harvey offering 3 million, because none of your cites say that he did. You also have to withdraw the claim of "checks flowing" because a one off check is not "checks" and you didn't show that anyone else had "checks flowing" to them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/28/us/rose-mcgowan-harvey-weinstein.html

I give credit to alternate media and the Internet in particular.
Weinstein supposedly had people planted throughout the mainstream media and there was a resulting conspiracy of silence.

Example of fallout: http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/harvey-weinstein-ronan-farrow-nbc-20171013.html

But the MSM doesn't control the narrative anymore. So women were free to come forward against him. And he got fired from his own company as a result.

Now women know it is possible. The result is the tsunami we are witnessing now.

Not sure what to ultimately make of it all but it is worthy of grabbing one's popcorn to watch.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Garrison-Keillor-says-fired-over-alleged-improper-12392177.php

Garrison Keillor? Who is next? Mr. Rogers?

inu-kun:
I think it is likely a result of a homegrown "cull the unbelievers" from the liberal left.
It wasn't unknown (Seth McFarlin for example) so the only thing that must have kept it hushed was it being more beneficial financially or politically to news outlets than exposed.

So either some agreements between the two were stopped or the inmates are running the asylum and claim how they are fighting evil while committing self cannibalism.

Its been an open secret for years.

On a lesser note, I suspect this kind of behavior is partially been the reason why you can have men every level of attractiveness and level of fitness in Hollywood, and the girl playing the "Average looking" chick is still a 7/10 at worst.

Gorfias:
Garrison Keillor? Who is next? Mr. Rogers?

Kermit the Frog.

The Garrison Keillor allegations really make the typical Guy Noire, Private Eye segments a bit darker.

Gorfias:
I give credit to alternate media and the Internet in particular.
Weinstein supposedly had people planted throughout the mainstream media and there was a resulting conspiracy of silence.

Example of fallout: http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/harvey-weinstein-ronan-farrow-nbc-20171013.html

But the MSM doesn't control the narrative anymore. So women were free to come forward against him. And he got fired from his own company as a result.

Now women know it is possible. The result is the tsunami we are witnessing now.

That's a point, at least to an extent. You don't (or perhaps I should say, didn't) need agents in the media to cover it up, you'd be protected by a conspiracy of silence either way, but that would certainly help.

Seanchaidh:

Gorfias:
Garrison Keillor? Who is next? Mr. Rogers?

Kermit the Frog.

The Garrison Keillor allegations really make the typical Guy Noire, Private Eye segments a bit darker.

Not Kermie! Course, he never should have had the fling with pig at work.

Not sure where I would post a new thread but would love to start one asking people to list their nominee for most clueless movie. I think it was called "Frankie and Johnnie": a "Romantic Comedy" that appears to me to be a toxic case of harassment. Seriously.

If there is one good thing to come out of this storm, it is that men will learn to be less asinine at work.

saint of m:

On a lesser note, I suspect this kind of behavior is partially been the reason why you can have men every level of attractiveness and level of fitness in Hollywood, and the girl playing the "Average looking" chick is still a 7/10 at worst.

It might be justified by "henchmen" and comedy characters. The former are actually preferrably unappealing and men are the expendable gender, the latter is usually funnier with some minor deformity or being the geek archtype and... well.. one is on average funnier than the other and can be abused without audience sympathies.

It's just a shift in public opinion. Weinstein triggered it, and now it's impossible for a network or studio to keep on an actor or host who can credibly be accused of sexual harassment (for better or for worse).

Donald Trump is still going to get away with it, though. Sad.

inu-kun:
I think it is likely a result of a homegrown "cull the unbelievers" from the liberal left.
It wasn't unknown (Seth McFarlin for example) so the only thing that must have kept it hushed was it being more beneficial financially or politically to news outlets than exposed.

So either some agreements between the two were stopped or the inmates are running the asylum and claim how they are fighting evil while commiting self cannibalism.

I love how an environment where women are actually allowed to come forward about their sexual abuse is apparently the results of cult like reactions on the left. I guess human decency can't possibly be an explanation.

But I don't know, maybe people have gotten so used to defending Donald Trump over matters of his sexual assault, people on the right just assume that the common person that leans politically left is used to just denying and ignoring the same kind of moral fuckery from major left leaning figures. Therefore the average left leaning voter MUST be a hypocrite too. I don't know, I'm just spitballing, I'm just really struggling to see all this shit going on and somehow see someone use it as a chance to shit talk liberals.

It's kind of unearned criticism when Republicans see a child molester and still want to vote for him more than a Democrat.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-is-roy-moore-back-in-front-time-and-trump-are-probably-helping/?ex_cid=538twitter

So I gotta say, I've been seeing a lot of "LoL, the left is eating their own" sort of comments about this, and I have to ask:

Should the left be letting this slide because they're "one of our own"?

What's the actual argument here?

altnameJag:
So I gotta say, I've been seeing a lot of "LoL, the left is eating their own" sort of comments about this, and I have to ask:

Should the left be letting this slide because they're "one of our own"?

What's the actual argument here?

The right admitting that they're morally bankrupt.

erttheking:

inu-kun:
I think it is likely a result of a homegrown "cull the unbelievers" from the liberal left.
It wasn't unknown (Seth McFarlin for example) so the only thing that must have kept it hushed was it being more beneficial financially or politically to news outlets than exposed.

So either some agreements between the two were stopped or the inmates are running the asylum and claim how they are fighting evil while commiting self cannibalism.

I love how an environment where women are actually allowed to come forward about their sexual abuse is apparently the results of cult like reactions on the left. I guess human decency can't possibly be an explanation.

But I don't know, maybe people have gotten so used to defending Donald Trump over matters of his sexual assault, people on the right just assume that the common person that leans politically left is used to just denying and ignoring the same kind of moral fuckery from major left leaning figures. Therefore the average left leaning voter MUST be a hypocrite too. I don't know, I'm just spitballing, I'm just really struggling to see all this shit going on and somehow see someone use it as a chance to shit talk liberals.

It's kind of unearned criticism when Republicans see a child molester and still want to vote for him more than a Democrat.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-is-roy-moore-back-in-front-time-and-trump-are-probably-helping/?ex_cid=538twitter

Except you miss my entire about the same people ignoring the problem (and being able to report on it) "suddenly" finding "human decency" which seems rather odd to happen all at once.

And also "allowed to come forward"? that's some way of phrasing the current state of affairs that merely being accused means automatic guilt.

Finally don't try to steer the conversation when exposed to your side being just as bad.

Women have finally realized that the shit we've suffered through in private is not just someone creeping on me or my friends, it is a problem that affects a lot of women all over the world. Not only that, after Weinstein was removed from his position after allegations against him surfaced, that created a precedent that said that stories of sexual harassment and rape should be taken seriously and in cases were enough serious and plausible allegations were presented that the harassed suffer the consequences.

If you will, for the first time the discussions about these issues are dominated by victims getting respect and encouragement for coming forward and talking about the abuse they suffered. Feminism and social justice work has finally reached a point where women's experience of sexual harassment is not hand-waved as "boys being boys" or "lying sluts" or any of the other dozen hand waves used previously. Now they are being listened to and the people that have harassed or abused them are being called out for the shitty behavior they exhibited.

Perhaps one day we will look back at this as one of the important revolutions of the equality movement, the revolution where men's shitty behavior against women was brought to light and called out.

Humans like ignoring the suffering of others. And when everyone ignores your suffering, you feel obliged to not talk about it.

inu-kun:

erttheking:

inu-kun:
I think it is likely a result of a homegrown "cull the unbelievers" from the liberal left.
It wasn't unknown (Seth McFarlin for example) so the only thing that must have kept it hushed was it being more beneficial financially or politically to news outlets than exposed.

So either some agreements between the two were stopped or the inmates are running the asylum and claim how they are fighting evil while commiting self cannibalism.

I love how an environment where women are actually allowed to come forward about their sexual abuse is apparently the results of cult like reactions on the left. I guess human decency can't possibly be an explanation.

But I don't know, maybe people have gotten so used to defending Donald Trump over matters of his sexual assault, people on the right just assume that the common person that leans politically left is used to just denying and ignoring the same kind of moral fuckery from major left leaning figures. Therefore the average left leaning voter MUST be a hypocrite too. I don't know, I'm just spitballing, I'm just really struggling to see all this shit going on and somehow see someone use it as a chance to shit talk liberals.

It's kind of unearned criticism when Republicans see a child molester and still want to vote for him more than a Democrat.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-is-roy-moore-back-in-front-time-and-trump-are-probably-helping/?ex_cid=538twitter

Except you miss my entire about the same people ignoring the problem (and being able to report on it) "suddenly" finding "human decency" which seems rather odd to happen all at once.

And also "allowed to come forward"? that's some way of phrasing the current state of affairs that merely being accused means automatic guilt.

Finally don't try to steer the conversation when exposed to your side being just as bad.

Your point was that it was a culling of non believers, something that makes so little sense I don't know where to start with it. It kind of also assumes every one was in on it, which is a very baseless claim. The ones that did know were cowards, but I'll take them over people who knew and continue to do nothing once an abuser's laundry is out in the open. Like with the politicans that still support Mr. Grab Them By The Pussy.

Automatic guilt. Please tell me about the people who have been arrested. Oh right, none of them. Apparently even dozens of women claiming rape from the same man, isn't enough to get someone convicted in this country. Not even the ones who fucked underage boys. Hardly like their lives are being destroyed, the majority of them haven't even lost their jobs. And half the ones that did got new ones real soon. In O'Riley's case, right away. And my "allowed to come forward" line was because before the women were always dismissed as lying whores and were commonly attacked. They still are. Basically all that happens is people think the allegations against them are true. Which is true of every crime when accusations are made. You think this one is special? You think people accused of murder, arson and grand theft auto don't get fired? They do. They also tend to get arrested, which none of these people have been. Honestly, for all your outrage, they're getting handled with kid gloves.

Just as bad? Lol. Hey I'll make you a deal. When there's an election between a rapist and a conservative and the rapist is winning, you can pull that "just as bad" shit. Not until then. Also there's a difference between Hollywood and Congress, a big difference. No one elected Hollywood executives and stars, so you trying to make the two comparable is really just a lackluster "both sides" argument designed to make the people supporting people like Moore look better by comparison. On one side we've got rich twats abusing their power. On the other hand we've got rich twats abusing their power, getting caught, and their voter base ignoring it. I'm not seeing the just as bad.

erttheking:

Your point was that it was a culling of non believers, something that makes so little sense I don't know where to start with it. It kind of also assumes every one was in on it, which is a very baseless claim. The ones that did know were cowards, but I'll take them over people who knew and continue to do nothing once an abuser's laundry is out in the open. Like with the politicans that still support Mr. Grab Them By The Pussy.

Automatic guilt. Please tell me about the people who have been arrested. Oh right, none of them. Apparently even dozens of women claiming rape from the same man, isn't enough to get someone convicted in this country. Not even the ones who fucked underage boys. Hardly like their lives are being destroyed, the majority of them haven't even lost their jobs. And half the ones that did got new ones real soon. In O'Riley's case, right away. And my "allowed to come forward" line was because before the women were always dismissed as lying whores and were commonly attacked. They still are. Basically all that happens is people think the allegations against them are true. Which is true of every crime when accusations are made. You think this one is special? You think people accused of murder, arson and grand theft auto don't get fired? They do. They also tend to get arrested, which none of these people have been. Honestly, for all your outrage, they're getting handled with kid gloves.

Just as bad? Lol. Hey I'll make you a deal. When there's an election between a rapist and a conservative and the rapist is winning, you can pull that "just as bad" shit. Not until then. Also there's a difference between Hollywood and Congress, a big difference. No one elected Hollywood executives and stars, so you trying to make the two comparable is really just a lackluster "both sides" argument designed to make the people supporting people like Moore look better by comparison. On one side we've got rich twats abusing their power. On the other hand we've got rich twats abusing their power, getting caught, and their voter base ignoring it. I'm not seeing the just as bad.

Except a lot of people were clearly on it was shown that those things were referenced in public and ignored. And once again diverting the subject.

Oh yeah, getting your life destoryed without ability to protect yourself is nothing and having the right to be defended in court (without concrete evidence I might add) is a liablity when justice is "obvious". I'm seriously thinking you'd like to live in a police state.

It's pretty funny you disregard your political side's moral bankruptcy while blaming society as a whole on disregarding moral bankruptcy.

inu-kun:
Snip

Could you kindly not be vague, I'm not a fan of not know who the heck you're talking about. You talking about general public or specific people? And if it's the latter, I need some names. I fail to see how it's diverting the subject if we're talking about things being put out in the open and people ignoring it. If anything, it feels more relevant than ever.

Define having your life ruined. Most of these people are rich, will continue to be rich, and will continue to live comfortable lives with legions upon legions of people defending them. It's not like they'll ever struggle to find jobs. I mean look at Mike Tyson. The guy was convicted of rape, came out and has no problem appearing in movies. And not having the right to defend themselves in court? 90% of these people will never see the inside of a court house and never face legal repercussion for what they did, so they're getting off even lighter than Tyson. If you think I want to live in a police state then I have to question what your definition of a police state is. Because these people are getting handled with kid gloves and you're screaming police state. Which is funny, because you're claiming police state for situations where there's not a cop in sight. What, do you want these people to be defended from having bad reputations? Do you want Mel Gibson to receive the same defense? And you know, it's funny. There was a woman who came forward, claiming to have been assaulted by Moore, and the Washington Post figured out that she was lying. It's almost like people aren't just mindlessly swallowing every assault story being thrown their way. Oh, and that woman? Part of an attempting underground sting to discredit the Washington Post.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/us/washington-post-roy-moore-project-veritas.html

I find it funny your side is voting for a pedophile and you keep trying to not address it while also criticizing me for deflecting. Also while failing to address around 80% of my points.

I find it interesting that this big movement does reveal quite a lot of hotspots with lots of bad practice and individuals who behaved reprehensible for decades without any repercussion, but really fails to show anything in most other places or industries.

There was always the opinion "women are abused everywhere all the time and people just ignore/accept it" and "there are only single incidents and you hardly ever see any sexual harassment in the public". People called each other liars over that.

Maybe it really is not spread out evenly at all and anecdotical evidence really is worthless in this case.

Blood Brain Barrier:
My guess is that a lot of them didn't see it as sexual assault. Back in college I was grabbed by the arse and didn't think much of it. Now looking back on it I view what happened differently. There's more public awareness now and more people are seeing events that happened to them in the light of new information.

You know, this is both good and bad. Let me elaborate, if back than it truly bothered you but you decided to simply live with it because you thought it was how things are supposed to be it is a good thing you now view it as an abnormality which shouldn't be accepted. However based on how you tell it it seems it didn't bother you that much. And than comes the question, is it a good thing that you now see yourself as a victim of sexual assault for something which didn't bother you in the past? Is self-victimization a good thing?

This is the risk with the current state of affairs, people are not only being told to come forward for shit that was wrong and bothered them but they are also told to feel bad and victimized for things they considered non-issues. I have had my ass grabbed a couple of times during parties. I have always considered it as a compliment rather than a horrible crime. And I don't see how it would help me to feel like a victim of a severe crime.

Condemning shit is ok and needs to be done. But let's not go into frenzy and start considering everything shit, even non-issues.

The same is happening with people "feeling offended". More and more ads and jokes are considered offending and people get angry and feel victimized/targeted. And this despite things having become more and more tame. Is that a good thing?

Satinavian:
I find it interesting that this big movement does reveal quite a lot of hotspots with lots of bad practice and individuals who behaved reprehensible for decades without any repercussion, but really fails to show anything in most other places or industries.

There was always the opinion "women are abused everywhere all the time and people just ignore/accept it" and "there are only single incidents and you hardly ever see any sexual harassment in the public". People called each other liars over that.

Maybe it really is not spread out evenly at all and anecdotical evidence really is worthless in this case.

Maybe you should look at how #metoo has progressed in Sweden? Thousands of women from pretty much all walks of life have created their own hashtags to tell their stories of sexual harassment in the workplace. The very idea that #metoo somehow doesn't show a systemic problem of sexual harassment means that you haven't followed it closely enough, since everyone who has followed it agrees that it does the exact opposite of what you think.

Gethsemani:
Maybe you should look at how #metoo has progressed in Sweden? Thousands of women from pretty much all walks of life have created their own hashtags to tell their stories of sexual harassment in the workplace. The very idea that #metoo somehow doesn't show a systemic problem of sexual harassment means that you haven't followed it closely enough, since everyone who has followed it agrees that it does the exact opposite of what you think.

Well, as German i googled a couple of times for #metoo cases for Germany and hardly could find any. Sure, some feminist organisations lauding the initiative, some surveys without names or even cases, some people complaining about foreigners and Cologne (again. As if the hashtag was ever about that), some people complaining that no one gives names out even when "everyone knows who it is" (and still not giving the name) and quite recently something about the European parliament (only tangentially related to Germany by way of a German MEP complaining). Seems like we didn't have a single case of mounting accusations for any prominent figure. At least not big enough that search engines can find it easily.

Instead of the media writing about scandals, they speciulate about why no one comes forward.

E.G. here
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/metoo-debatte-warum-ist-es-so-still-in-deutschland-kolumne-von-georg-diez-a-1180186.html
even the outright femisist sites complain about the utter lack of actual cases with names
https://pinkstinks.de/metoo-das-geht-sie-ueberhaupt-nichts-an/

Personally i find it pretty frustrating. I had hoped it could be an eye opener for myself. That i could finally get some better picture of the situation in the society i life in. But no.

But i must admit i did not google for Swedish cases so far.

saint of m:
snip

Too bad I do not think you can add a poll.

Back in the 80s, there were articles about how the work place had become the fallback dating pool of the age. It is where I met the woman that would become my wife and mother to my kids.

Then I see footage of Matt Lauer saying to a woman, on a hot mike in 2006, that her sweater is pretty, "keep on bending over like that,it's a nice view".

Is it ever OK today to pursue sex at work? Can we separate pursuit of a potential relationship at work and a pursuit of sex? Should this "dating scene" of the 1980s be shut down: that any such attentions are forbidden now as, could any authority be able to justly maintain such a separation? And if we shut it down, will normal people with normal interests in the opposite sex be able to just 100% turn it off at work?

EDIT: Heck, there are same sex people with the same conflicts to worry about in the workplace. Same issue: should the pursuit of sex at work be shut down? Potential relationships ?

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