Trump reduces Utah National Mounuments

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Two national monuments are being downsized in Utah, an 85% cut to the state's 1.3m acre Bears Ears National Monument and a 50% cut to its 1.9m acre Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. Yeah. Also, Because apparently he wants to be a Captain Planet villain, this is happening to protected Native American land, the Navajo, and Trump didn't say a fucking word to them about this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42222069

This presidency is one big shit show. Teddy Roosevelt is spinning in his grave.

erttheking:
Also, Because apparently he wants to be a Captain Planet villain, this is happening to protected Native American land, the Navajo, and Trump didn't say a fucking word to them about this.

I'm starting to wonder if Trump can even see people of color or if his eyes only process a vague shimmer where they're standing.

BeetleManiac:

erttheking:
Also, Because apparently he wants to be a Captain Planet villain, this is happening to protected Native American land, the Navajo, and Trump didn't say a fucking word to them about this.

I'm starting to wonder if Trump can even see people of color or if his eyes only process a vague shimmer where they're standing.

Given the fact he holds them in better regard then most Democrats (and especially the party itself given what its leadership says about them behind closed doors when they think no one's listening) I still don't get how this meme survives in the minds of those who support those who are worst.

OT: how exactly is a national monument's land being rezoned as being no longer part of a monument the business of a native tribe? If it's part of their reserve then it changes nothing, and if it isn't they have no say in the matter anyway.

erttheking:

This presidency is one big shit show. Teddy Roosevelt is spinning in his grave.

You... do realise Teddy's opinion would be that Trump is a far left liberal pussy who's afraid of what foreigners and people who should be foreigners who somehow got in the country (which applies to whites as much as non-whites) think getting in the way of getting shit done, right? I mean sure he's one of the best presidents you guys had, but his legacy isn't one that modern progressives should be happy about. Which is probably why progressives love taking a huge dump on him. I'm actually surprised to see a progressive not insult the man.

Zontar:

Snip

There's also the fact that he would have been disgusted with how Trump is stabbing coal miners in the back, looking the other way when it comes to corruption instead of strangling it to death, and a general lack of concern for the environment, but sure, let's focus on that. I'm just saying, Teddy was one of the few Republican presidents who actually gave a shit about the state the country would be in after he left office. Something that seems to have been lost to the modern GOP.

But sure, let's just focus on that aspect of him and instead of all the good that he's done.

Oh, and it matters because there are parts of Native American history, which is why Obama had the land protected. Not that Trump gives a fuck, he can't appease rich land developers by respecting history.

And if Teddy would call Trump a pussy for anything, it's for being a two faced liar who hides behind deceit and chronic lying.

Speaking in the capitol building in Salt Lake City, Mr Trump said: "Some people think the natural resources of Utah should be controlled by a small handful of very distant bureaucrats located in Washington."

So now those resources will be controlled by an even smaller handful of corporations and wealthy landowners instead of being open for public use? What bullshit.

erttheking:
I'm just saying, Teddy was one of the few Republican presidents who actually gave a shit about the state the country would be in after he left office. Something that seems to have been lost to the modern GOP.

Given the Obama administration, the 2016 election and the way the party's been acting since, I think he'd be upset that there isn't any party in US politics who give a shit about the state of the country. The backlash against that is why Trump won after all.

Oh, and it matters because there are parts of Native American history, which is why Obama had the land protected.

Wait it was done under Obama's tenure? No wonder he overturned it. That's literally the beginning and end of the entire explanation of why he did it.

But why? what purpose does this serve? Does the land contain the cure for all cancers?

Zontar:

erttheking:
I'm just saying, Teddy was one of the few Republican presidents who actually gave a shit about the state the country would be in after he left office. Something that seems to have been lost to the modern GOP.

Given the Obama administration, the 2016 election and the way the party's been acting since, I think he'd be upset that there isn't any party in US politics who give a shit about the state of the country. The backlash against that is why Trump won after all.

Oh, and it matters because there are parts of Native American history, which is why Obama had the land protected.

Wait it was done under Obama's tenure? No wonder he overturned it. That's literally the beginning and end of the entire explanation of why he did it.

And a fuck lot of good it's been doing for the country. My friends' chances of going to grad school are shot if his tax plan goes through. If he were to hate that there's no party that cares about the country, he'd see Trump as the face of that problem.

Don't fucking remind me. Trump's a spoiled brat throwing a spiteful temper tantrum.

But, you know, I made an off hand comment about a president that was well known for protecting forests and you decided to seize upon that over everything else. This thread of the conversation ends here.

erttheking:
My friends' chances of going to grad school are shot if his tax plan goes through.

Didn't realize you had friends who where that well off. Unless he's in an oddly specific situation where he isn't well off yet somehow worst off, but that would beg many questions. I seriously doubt that he's in the bracket that'll see a 2% increase yet that isn't well off yet can still afford to go under the previous plan given there's no way in hell that difference would be enough to stop him, especially given federal loan programs.

image

Don't fucking remind me. Trump's a spoiled brat throwing a spiteful temper tantrum.

Yeah he should be focusing on Obama's policies that actually hurt the nation, like his healthcare reform (which people still seem to forget was built by a Republican and rejected by the Republican party due to the fact they all saw that the problems that eventually ended up happening would, well, happen), or his attempts to push for the TPP (which thank good he got the US out of, now if only our PM would do the same). But when he ran on reversing Obama's policies I suppose one can't be surprised when he holds true to it.

But, you know, I made an off hand comment about a president that was well known for protecting forests and you decided to seize upon that over everything else.

Given all the stuff progressives have slug towards Teddy over the past year, forgive me for being confused as to why a president your part of your wing of politics has declared an enemy was being held in high regard, especially given the fact that protecting forests isn't on the list of the top 10 things people who either love or hate him seem to remember him for. It's like pointing out that plenty of dictators where the ones who introduced laws we see as common now, like certain welfare programs or animal protection (both of which where implemented by a conservative dictator and fascist one respectively, yet no one remembers either of those different German leaders for that, and with good reason).

Zontar:

BeetleManiac:

erttheking:
Also, Because apparently he wants to be a Captain Planet villain, this is happening to protected Native American land, the Navajo, and Trump didn't say a fucking word to them about this.

I'm starting to wonder if Trump can even see people of color or if his eyes only process a vague shimmer where they're standing.

Given the fact he holds them in better regard then most Democrats (and especially the party itself given what its leadership says about them behind closed doors when they think no one's listening) I still don't get how this meme survives in the minds of those who support those who are worst.

OT: how exactly is a national monument's land being rezoned as being no longer part of a monument the business of a native tribe? If it's part of their reserve then it changes nothing, and if it isn't they have no say in the matter anyway.

erttheking:

This presidency is one big shit show. Teddy Roosevelt is spinning in his grave.

You... do realise Teddy's opinion would be that Trump is a far left liberal pussy who's afraid of what foreigners and people who should be foreigners who somehow got in the country (which applies to whites as much as non-whites) think getting in the way of getting shit done, right? I mean sure he's one of the best presidents you guys had, but his legacy isn't one that modern progressives should be happy about. Which is probably why progressives love taking a huge dump on him. I'm actually surprised to see a progressive not insult the man.

Teddy was a New York Republican back when Republicans were anti-south and anti-slavery.

He would have a negative opinion of Trump for being a shitty businessman, for being shitty to the environment, and for being a stooge of Russians. He would be too busy BEING the Big Boss-Man that Trump thinks he himself is, while Trump sits there bitching on twitter for how inadequate he is in every fucking way.

Hell, Teddy would probably shoot and mount Trump due to his leathery orange hide.

Hell, here is the views and goals of his party, which is basically the opposite of Trump on each point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)#The_Progressive_convention_and_platform

Teddy Roosevelt is the Anti-Trump.

undeadsuitor:
But why? what purpose does this serve? Does the land contain the cure for all cancers?

An explanation for you, and for everyone else confused as to why this is happening:

Utah's current Senator is a man named Orrin Hatch, who has served seven terms in the Senate. For a few months now, it's been reported that Hatch had been making plans to retire rather than run for an eighth term. Last month Mitt Romney made it known that he would run for Hatch's seat. If Romney did run, he would win easily; he's a high-profile Mormon running in a state that is mostly Mormon, a former presidential candidate, and a textbook Republican. He is also a very vocal never-Trumper, and that fact concerns Trump.

What Trump is doing here is cozying up to Orrin Hatch to convince him to run for an eighth term. Hatch has sought the downsizing of Utah's national monuments for some time and the two apparently get along well together. By giving Hatch that little hand-off, Trump is trying to keep a Trump-friendly senator in office and rub Mitt Romney's nose in it at the same time, because Trump has the emotional priorities of a schoolyard bully.

Zontar:
snip

Zontar, even I have no idea what you're on about here. The Republicans opposed the ACA because it was too similar to a Republican plan? Environmental conservation and social welfare are the product of conservatives and fascists? What are you talking about? Who are you talking about?

Are you criticising left-wing hypocrisy towards Teddy Roosevelt? If it's Teddy Roosevelt, then Christ, buddy; tons of people on both sides of the political aisle like Teddy Roosevelt. The guy got shot in the lung halfway through giving a speech and then finished the speech. They don't make them like that anymore.

If you had an unpleasant encounter with a lefty progressive who lectured you about why Roosevelt was an evil racist pig, then you have my sympathies. But as a lefty progressive myself, I have to say - in comparison to the modern Republican Party, Teddy Roosevelt was a goddamn saint.

Edit:

Zontar:
Wait it was done under Obama's tenure? No wonder he overturned it. That's literally the beginning and end of the entire explanation of why he did it.

"Obama did it, therefore it was wrong."

Christ, dude. Are you even trying?

bastardofmelbourne:

Zontar, even I have no idea what you're on about here. The Republicans opposed the ACA because it was too similar to a Republican plan? Environmental conservation and social welfare are the product of conservatives and fascists? What are you talking about? Who are you talking about?

What I'm on about is the fact that Ronmie is the one who came up with what became the ACA, but when he first brought it up to the party the party rejected it because, well the reasons where a point of national debate already so no need to bring out the list now.

As for the dictators, the answer is Bismark (who despite being the most conservative Challenger Germany has yet had implemented the first welfare state) and Hitler (who introduced the first modern animal protection laws. The irony). Tell me, if someone where to bring up either, would the welfare state and animal protection laws be the first thing that came to mind?

If you had an unpleasant encounter with a lefty progressive who lectured you about why Roosevelt was an evil racist pig, then you have my sympathies. But as a lefty progressive myself, I have to say - in comparison to the modern Republican Party, Teddy Roosevelt was a goddamn saint.

Well that is true but it's also true of American politicians in general regardless of which party they're in so it isn't saying much.

Edit:

Zontar:
Wait it was done under Obama's tenure? No wonder he overturned it. That's literally the beginning and end of the entire explanation of why he did it.

"Obama did it, therefore it was wrong."

Christ, dude. Are you even trying?

That Trump ran on a policy of revoking and reversing those of the Obama administration so one shouldn't be surprised when he does just that. "Obama did it" is reason enough to understand why Trump would do something, it was literally his platform. As you pointed out there's more to it then that, but when people ask "why", if Obama did was the one who did it in the first place then it's a very real possibility that it is the reason.

bastardofmelbourne:
But as a lefty progressive myself, I have to say - in comparison to the modern Republican Party, Teddy Roosevelt was a goddamn saint.

The Republican Party Teddy Roosevelt was part of is now known as Democrats. Teddy and Lincoln would be Democrats today.

Republicans before the 1950's would generally be Democrats now, and vice-versa. It is an important distinction to make. A political party by any other name doesnt matter compared to the views and platforms they run on and push for.

Zontar:

bastardofmelbourne:

Edit:

Zontar:
Wait it was done under Obama's tenure? No wonder he overturned it. That's literally the beginning and end of the entire explanation of why he did it.

"Obama did it, therefore it was wrong."

Christ, dude. Are you even trying?

That Trump ran on a policy of revoking and reversing those of the Obama administration so one shouldn't be surprised when he does just that. "Obama did it" is reason enough to understand why Trump would do something, it was literally his platform. As you pointed out there's more to it then that, but when people ask "why", if Obama did was the one who did it in the first place then it's a very real possibility that it is the reason.

You arent wrong here...but you are a Trump supporter. You do see how petty and shitty this mentality is right?

Saelune:

Republicans before the 1950's would generally be Democrats now, and vice-versa.

Wait, but Democrats keep saying that the Great Depression was expended due to the Herbert Hoover and that FDR was the greatest president.

image

Saelune:
You arent wrong here...but you are a Trump supporter. You do see how petty and shitty this mentality is right?

Oh yeah there is a problem with that mentality (my own country is currently being run by a man and party who are running on the mentality of overturning all sanity and rational thought and seeing how batshit insane they can get, and how many years they can kill the party for after they loose the next election). Doesn't change the fact that he's better then Clinton or Sanders. Cruz is the only real competitor he had that I could see an argument for, especially after his two time take-down of Sanders.

Zontar:

Saelune:

Republicans before the 1950's would generally be Democrats now, and vice-versa.

Wait, but Democrats keep saying that the Great Depression was expended due to the Herbert Hoover and that FDR was the greatest president.

image

Saelune:
You arent wrong here...but you are a Trump supporter. You do see how petty and shitty this mentality is right?

Oh yeah there is a problem with that mentality (my own country is currently being run by a man and party who are running on the mentality of overturning all sanity and rational thought and seeing how batshit insane they can get, and how many years they can kill the party for after they loose the next election). Doesn't change the fact that he's better then Clinton or Sanders. Cruz is the only real competitor he had that I could see an argument for, especially after his two time take-down of Sanders.

The Great Depression is a lesser stain than FIGHTING FOR SLAVERY.

And things are relative. I will take most modern left-wingers over most people from either party from the 20's or 30's or whatever. Im sure there were plenty of anti-slavery people who still called black people 'nigger'. Things like a woman wearing pants used to be a big deal. Glad they are not now though. But hey, Im a progressive. I like moving forward not back. (Edit: This paragraph is admittedly a bit messy, as I had multiple thoughts going on and reference various time periods, but not in a particularly cohesive way)

Both Clinton and Sanders are better than Trump in literally every way. Cruz has no spine and can rot with the rest of the spineless grubs. To be a competitor, you have to compete. Cruz pretended he would do that, but when he tried to stand up-right, he collapsed under the weight of his fat head since he has no spine to keep him up.

Zontar:
What I'm on about is the fact that Ronmie is the one who came up with what became the ACA, but when he first brought it up to the party the party rejected it because, well the reasons where a point of national debate already so no need to bring out the list now.

They rejected it so hard that they...later nominated Mitt Romney for President in 2012, two years after the passage of the ACA.

The Republicans did not oppose the ACA because it was flawed. It was flawed, but fixing those flaws would have resulted in a healthcare plan even further to the left than the ACA. The ACA included over one hundred amendments proposed by Republican congressmen over a year of deliberation. Obama deliberately chose Romney's Massachusetts healthcare plan as the foundation of the ACA in order to attract bipartisan support. The Republicans eventually withheld that support because they made the calculation that it was better to simply oppose everything Obama did and cast him as the devil.

Zontar:
As for the dictators, the answer is Bismark (who despite being the most conservative Challenger Germany has yet had implemented the first welfare state) and Hitler (who introduced the first modern animal protection laws. The irony). Tell me, if someone where to bring up either, would the welfare state and animal protection laws be the first thing that came to mind?

If someone brought up Bismarck, my first thought would be "architect of the German Empire." If someone brought up Hitler, my first thought would be "the Holocaust."

In neither case would my first thought be "first European leader to implement welfare reform" or "first European leader to implement animal cruelty laws," but most people don't think "architect of the European civil law tradition" when they think of Napoleon, nor do they think "founder of the Anglican church" when they think of Henry VIII.

The actual profiles of these historical figures are a hell of a lot more complicated than you're making them out to be. To be honest, I'm still not entirely clear why you even brought it up. Why is it relevant that Hitler was the first European leader to institute animal protection legislation?

Zontar:
That Trump ran on a policy of revoking and reversing those of the Obama administration so one shouldn't be surprised when he does just that. "Obama did it" is reason enough to understand why Trump would do something, it was literally his platform. As you pointed out there's more to it then that, but when people ask "why", if Obama did was the one who did it in the first place then it's a very real possibility that it is the reason.

Ah; glad to see you've recognised that Trump has based his only concrete policy goals upon the petty and nihilistic desire to undo everything accomplished by his predecessor regardless of its substantive merit.

bastardofmelbourne:
Ah; glad to see you've recognised that Trump has based his only concrete policy goals upon the petty and nihilistic desire to undo everything accomplished by his predecessor regardless of its substantive merit.

Hey, can't have a black man thinking he's the equal to Rich Whitey. Shit like this is why I put Zontar on the ignore list a while back. Dude would burn down his own house if Obama complimented him on it.

Zontar:
Snip

He got through his undergrad years because he spent his grandfather's entire inheritance on it. It's all gone now, so he can't do it again. Then again, this is a friend who's very existence you've denied in the past when said existence was inconvenient for you, I fully expect it to happen again. Also I suggest you talk to renegade7, who is a PhD student and isn't sure how he'll finish his education with this tax plan...wait a minute. You DO know what Trump is doing to grad students in the sciences right? Because none of what you talked about had anything to do with how the GOP wants to treated waved tuition as taxable income.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.1026917-GOP-wants-to-tax-waived-income-for-grad-school#24157810

Still waiting on a solution for the health care problem that wouldn't leave millions of poor people without insurance. The GOP seems incapable of jumping that particular hurdle. I'll keep reminding you until the day I die that Hilary would've pushed out the TTP too. And before you say "well before she said different," I could write an entire book on the things Trump has proven to be a hypocrite and a liar about. Those coal miners he pretended to love so much are still losing their jobs, and they're going to be paying more taxes soon, if things don't change anyway. So this is what Trump got elected on. Leaving millions of poor people without insurance and something the other person would have done. Not impressed.

Either actually list some grievances they have with Teddy or stop being so vague. Because as someone who actually lives in this country, I've not seen Teddy declared an enemy. By anyone And I feel confident in saying I'm more informed than you on the subject. Also, taking people (who I'm fairly certain don't exist to any significant degree) who don't like Teddy, and using it to make a comparison to dictators. Do I have to explain how this doesn't work?

EDIT: Actually, bottom line, do you have any way to defend what's being done, or do you just have whataboutism?

undeadsuitor:
Does the land contain the cure for all cancers?

If it did, Trump would probably give it to pharmaceutical companies or he'd drop a nuke on it. He seems utterly incapable of doing the right thing. I've never seen anyone so immoral and completely depraved of basic human decency. How the fuck can anyone defend someone so obviously and comically evil?

Vocabulary does not contain enough harshities to deal with this current day republican activity, what a mess of short-sighted greed and blind callousness. His people are ok with all this as long as they get their guns and Jesus in schools? That's not a good sign, it's a huge problem mentality that needs examination.
Is there going to be enough public pushback to avoid this fresh bullshit? I imagine that may be the only action available to those not wanting this.

How have mormons become so popular anyway? That's a religion only a step away from scientology in cult-like gullibility requirement.

Xsjadoblayde:
How have mormons become so popular anyway? That's a religion only a step away from scientology in cult-like gullibility requirement.

How did someone like Trump get so popular? Mormonism looks pretty damn good compared to Trump.

Adam Jensen:

Xsjadoblayde:
How have mormons become so popular anyway? That's a religion only a step away from scientology in cult-like gullibility requirement.

How did someone like Trump get so popular? Mormonism looks pretty damn good compared to Trump.

I guess it depends on where you look. I'm sure most Mormons are nice but there's also entire church's that exist on "compounds" (Which is never a good word) that are about as mice for young women as Roger moore

undeadsuitor:
But why? what purpose does this serve? Does the land contain the cure for all cancers?

It a) undoes something Obama did, and b) rewards President Hoggish Greedly's rich cronies.

That's every bit of thought that went into this.

McMarbles:

undeadsuitor:
But why? what purpose does this serve? Does the land contain the cure for all cancers?

It a) undoes something Obama did, and b) rewards President Hoggish Greedly's rich cronies.

That's every bit of thought that went into this.

So, once again, Trump is the most short-sighted of assholes in the world and...Zontar is being Zontar again.

*Pulls out his trusty Punchnote and prepares to write Trump's name in it again...*

Great. I mean... wow. After his racist gaff about the natives, just acting cartoonishly evil and taking land promised to people who had theirs stolen from them is kind of like the shit frosting on a shit sundae topped with whipped shit and garnished with shit sprinkles... apparently if people whittle down the number of mouths that need to eat it enough, it miraculously is seen as "acceptable policy" by certifiable idiots...

I don't suppose that companies and developers will be paying rents on it...? Natives will need that money to leave the country.

I mean... really? Who does this legitimately benefit, and is there no longer any moral compass beyond making one's political donors happy?

Addendum_Forthcoming:
I mean... really? Who does this legitimately benefit, and is there no longer any moral compass beyond making one's political donors happy?

Donors and base. Don't forget, Flake and Corker only found their backbones to say truthful things about trump after they decided they wouldn't be seeking reelection. Not that that moral fortitude has extended to actually voting against evil legislation, but baby steps I guess?

Leaving aside the substance of the issue (I generally have a soft spot for the preservation of picturesque scenery), I'm just going to note it's very interesting how people choose to contrast the great Teddy Roosevelt with the notoriously evil Trump:

Let's do a quick search for T. Roosevelt quotes for fun. Ah, here we go:

Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country.

In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.

In this country we have no place for hyphenated Americans.

The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer.

The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power.

No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned.

The teachings of the Bible are so interwoven and entwined with our whole civic and social life that it would be literally impossible for us to figure to ourselves what that life would be if these teaching were removed.

A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education.

I took the Canal Zone and let Congress debate; and while the debate goes on, the canal does also.

Probably the greatest harm done by vast wealth is the harm that we of moderate means do ourselves when we let the vices of envy and hatred enter deep into our own natures.

And, for a Grande Finale, there's this gem:

I don't believe the only good Indian is a dead Indian. But nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.

Now, the point here is not to somehow "prove" by scurrilous quote mining that T. Roosevelt was "super gross" in light of the current political sensitivities of some who appear happy to invoke his ghost against the current incumbent, or to make some general moral judgment about American history. It is to ask if we're even remotely qualified to assess the relative merits of any political leader in the absence of daily reinforcement by active partisan sources feeding us ready-made lines.

Just something to consider.

Addendum_Forthcoming:
I mean... really? Who does this legitimately benefit, and is there no longer any moral compass beyond making one's political donors happy?

Senator Orrin Hatch. Probably because there are mining companies who want to dig for coal in some of Utah's national monuments.

Trump is doing this to fuck over Mitt Romney. He wants Hatch to run for an eighth term so that Romney can't run for Senate in the one state where he is guaranteed to win.

Imo, fuck teddy, the only admirable things I can think about him off the top of my head was his conservationist stance, FELA and PFDA. Don't put rose tinted glasses on for repubs just because Trump is a vile piece of shit. So were Bush Jr and Reagan, only difference between them and Trump imo is the veneer of respectability.

Jux:
Imo, fuck teddy, the only admirable things I can think about him off the top of my head was his conservationist stance, FELA and PFDA. Don't put rose tinted glasses on for repubs just because Trump is a vile piece of shit. So were Bush Jr and Reagan, only difference between them and Trump imo is the veneer of respectability.

Republicans in Teddy's time are not the same as Republicans now. Its like comparing Twilight vampires with Dracula. Sure they are both 'vampires', but though they share a name, that is about it.

Jux:

Donors and base. Don't forget, Flake and Corker only found their backbones to say truthful things about trump after they decided they wouldn't be seeking reelection. Not that that moral fortitude has extended to actually voting against evil legislation, but baby steps I guess?

I don't know. Such apathy is usually indicative of politicians merely settling for the lesser of two evils, rather than doing what is right. I find it difficult to believe anyone of the body-poilitic actually wants this too happen beyond some sort ofideological bent of ... IDK ... fuck native title?

bastardofmelbourne:

Senator Orrin Hatch. Probably because there are mining companies who want to dig for coal in some of Utah's national monuments.

Trump is doing this to fuck over Mitt Romney. He wants Hatch to run for an eighth term so that Romney can't run for Senate in the one state where he is guaranteed to win.

Do they really want to dig coal, however? International thermal coal price has been trending higher for the last year, but that's in stark contradiction of the last 4 years beforehand. The price likely bouyed solely by Trump saying that he was going to look at coal for further power generation ... but such swings are against actual long-term market demand. A president can say things, but that alone rarely contributes to meaningful long term market trends.

I suppose it depends on the type of coal markets they're looking to exploit. You need good quality coking coal ('hard coal') if you want to make high quality, high carbon steel. That being said, the U.S. is not the place you look for coking coal, now. The trend of coking coal production has firmly shifted away from the U.S. due to lower general reserves.

The type of coal China wants from places like Australia is precisely the type of coal that the U.S. can't compete with. We sell it cheaper, we regulate our dollar to maintain under parity of the U.S., we have the training and infrastructure to treat and transport it. And the fact of the matter is that we're simply closer and we don't have a Trump for Prime Minister that seems one moment to embrace free markets, then the next threaten a trade war because it buys him votes from idiots.

The political angle makes a fair bit of sense. I can understand the desire to easily secure the rights to coal mining if it is sufficiently rich veins in Utah... after all, why look the possibility of future exploitation gift horses in the mouth? I suppose if you can secure a coal-friendly voice while also gaining potential future coal operation expansions then why wouldn't you?

Slimy as all fuck, I feel as though that eventually Americans might wake up to such open corruption eventually.

I find it odd, see ... if you have people pretending as if there is a conspiracy or deals done in the dark, they think it's automatically sinister than deals done in broad daylight, like this. I mean ... selling so much pristine wilderness, land promised to native title, to corporations to utterly pollute for no real reason?

But of course ... because there has been no attempt to conceal this gross lack of integrity, naturally I'm sure it won't ruffle feathers. Apparently the only corruption that matters is the one that isn't so bleeding obvious...

What is it they say about the banality of evil?

Huh, so in additional to the thousands of acres of protected wilderness that is about to be destroyed which puts Trump right up there in the pantheon of a Captain Planet villain for the second time this year (Christ he's got at least three more of them.... *drinks*) we could also be looking at the loss of hundreds of thousands of Native American cultural and archeological sites, on land that by rights should be theirs anyway.

I guess I'm just wondering where all the 'muh heritage' bold defenders are right now?

Or do they really only just care about preserving shitty old statues of old Confederate racists?

Nah, that can't be it at all.

Zontar:

That Trump ran on a policy of revoking and reversing those of the Obama administration so one shouldn't be surprised when he does just that. "Obama did it" is reason enough to understand why Trump would do something, it was literally his platform. As you pointed out there's more to it then that, but when people ask "why", if Obama did was the one who did it in the first place then it's a very real possibility that it is the reason.

So wait hang on a minute is this an admission that you KNOW that a large chunk, perhaps even the main focus, of Trump's policies is not about helping his country, enriching people or even (ffs) 'making America great again' but instead purely out of a emotional and petty desire to just shit all over everything Obama managed to accomplish in his eight years of Office, seemingly purely out of spite? Regardless of the cost to people's lives, regardless of the fact that these orders make no sense, regardless of the long term environmental damage it could cause not to mention the already fractured relationships between various social groups... all just so Trump can feel like a big tough big boy in a pathetic dick waving contest that Obama is too dignified to even want to participate in?

All seemingly just out of revenge of the fact that Obama made fun of him that ONE FUCKING TIME at a charity dinner as a direct response to the Birth Certificate bullshit Trump started in the first place?!

And you think this makes for a good political leader? You think this is the making of sound rational decisions? You don't mind that one of the most powerful political figures in the world right now has the temperament of a disgruntled eleven year old?

Seriously dude if an artist worked tirelessly and endlessly painstakingly creating a beautiful but by no means perfect work of art and then after he was done and hung it up on a wall for the first time and some guy immediately ran up and peed all over it.... would you call that urinating jackass a masterful artist too?

Because that's what, politically, Trump's been doing all year!

Vrex360:

So wait hang on a minute is this an admission that you KNOW that a large chunk, perhaps even the main focus, of Trump's policies is not about helping his country, enriching people or even (ffs) 'making America great again' but instead purely out of a emotional and petty desire to just shit all over everything Obama managed to accomplish in his eight years of Office, seemingly purely out of spite?

Well to be fair most of Obama's policies had overall negative effects so running on a platform of overturning them would get a lot of the people negatively effected by them to support someone who, well, ran on a platform of reversing them. Now granted, he hasn't been going after the right ones (the Unaffordable Care Act still lives) but I simply stated one shouldn't be surprised that an Obama era policy is being overturned by someone who promised to do just that.

erttheking:
Then again, this is a friend who's very existence you've denied in the past when said existence was inconvenient for you, I fully expect it to happen again.

Is this the "not recognising a mental illness means you don't think the person who has it exists" meme that's been all over campuses and the more oddball parts of the web as of late?

Because none of what you talked about had anything to do with how the GOP wants to treated waved tuition as taxable income.

Given how much we pay in taxes up here compared to where you live (doesn't matter which state, it's higher here across the board) forgive me for not having much sympathy for people still have lower rates then we do even with these changes.

Still waiting on a solution for the health care problem that wouldn't leave millions of poor people without insurance. The GOP seems incapable of jumping that particular hurdle. I'll keep reminding you until the day I die that Hilary would've pushed out the TTP too.

And I'll keep reminding you that the idea that Clinton would do the opposite of what she told her financial backers
behind closed doors is so ludicrous as to not even be worth entertaining.

Also, what about the millions who (until Trump allowed for the opt-out that should have always been there from the start) couldn't afford healthcare due to the price hikes that came with the misnamed Affordable Care Act?

And before you say "well before she said different," I could write an entire book on the things Trump has proven to be a hypocrite and a liar about.

And here I thought you hated whataboutism.

Either actually list some grievances they have with Teddy or stop being so vague. Because as someone who actually lives in this country, I've not seen Teddy declared an enemy.

Well StatusNil beat me to that, though there's also this cancerous video amongst other things.

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