While everyone was distracted by "shithole" remark, this happened:

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Seanchaidh:
A "lawless, treasonous authoritarian" being the President is not exactly what most people would think of as a mere "temporary issue" which requires no special legislative treatment.

Honestly, I just wish everyone in Congress would look far enough ahead to not vote for any power they wouldn't want their direst political enemies to have.

bastardofmelbourne:

Seanchaidh:
They care about the people suffering under Trump, and they also cared about the people suffering under Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan.

The best option for people who genuinely want to see a third-party government is to support candidates of either major party who are willing to vote on electoral reform.

The system is rigged against third-parties. That's basically the long and short of it. Right now, hypothetical third-party voters would be taking votes away from the Democrats and helping keep Republicans in power. That will not change until there are major reforms to the election process - the institution of a presidential popular vote, a two-round election system, preferential voting, etc. That is the only scenario under which third party voters can vote honestly without harming the very causes they want to see advanced.

The best way to achieve that scenario is to push the Democratic Party leftwards, support candidates who are willing to vote on electoral reform - not just to the White House, but to state and federal Congress - and then put those candidates in power and help them enact those reforms. And that will mean voting for a Democrat, because the Republicans sure as fuck aren't going to vote for reforms. That is the reality of the situation.

I can't really make sense of your argument, it's like saying "if we want more big players in the soda market we should all buy more Cola since Pepsi sure as fuck aren't going to do it". The Dems doesn't have any sane reason to add competitors who will reduce their chances. They do have a reason to make create a popular vote but only to improve their own chances of winning and reduce the republicans' chances.

In general the situation of third party votes is grim, the USA is LARGE. A new party would need to invest hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions, to have a chance for national representation. Good luck getting that amount of money without engaging in moral bankrutpcy. And in practice to not have the new party not suck the life of one of the older ones (and creating a single winning party for that duration) you need at least 2 new parties for variety of each side.

Also in practice saying there are no actual 3rd parties in the USA is a bit wrong as the primaries kind of serve as such, after all, Trump and Sanders are hated by the majority of their corrosponding party but managed to ride on the public support pretty far. And to be a realist, this is the level of 3rd parties candidates-Absolute idiots carried over by feelings over facts, nearly always far worse than the major party alternatives.

Saelune:

Seanchaidh:

Saelune:
I am not defending them. They are supporting Trump and I am not ok with that. I however, think that someone who refused to vote for Clinton against Trump is not that different. I will admit that there is more responsibility on actual politicians than voters, but still.

Maybe the room temperature opposition to Trump reflects the reasons why Democrats have so little enthusiasm or electoral support behind them. Maybe third party voters expected exactly what we're seeing here, among other things. Maybe third party voters want more out of politics than "if we all just lower our standards enough, we're sure to win!" Maybe they see beyond one election cycle, and recognize that following the Republicans to the right in pursuit of cash is not how you change the political direction of the country.

Third party voters do not care about anyone who suffers under Trump.

Fuck that left-punching shit. Just because people felt skeevy about voting for Clinton doesn't mean they don't care about people suffering under Trump. They just didn't want people to suffer under Clinton.

Schadrach:

Seanchaidh:
A "lawless, treasonous authoritarian" being the President is not exactly what most people would think of as a mere "temporary issue" which requires no special legislative treatment.

Honestly, I just wish everyone in Congress would look far enough ahead to not vote for any power they wouldn't want their direst political enemies to have.

I don't think they expect their direst political enemies ever to be in power; they're fundamentally OK with the other major party being in power.

Update:

A Democratic Party united against this bill could have sunk it. But instead they made sure they had enough for cloture (nineteen Senate Democrats) and let everyone else engage a performative vote against.

Seanchaidh:
Update:

HashtagTheResistance at work.

Alison Hartson had better crush Diane Feinstein in the primaries after this.

aegix drakan:

Seanchaidh:
Update:

HashtagTheResistance at work.

Alison Hartson had better crush Diane Feinstein in the primaries after this.

Yeah. EVEN FUCKING TED CRUZ VOTED NO! Meanwhile, CNN is fetishizing bipartisanship re: possible government shutdown.

You Americans really are going completely mad. I've been slowly watching it happen. There is mass hysteria bubble that lots of you occupy currently, one where trump is not a business man who happens to be an asshole. But instead some kind of dark lord intent on destroying your way of life. He's had power for a whole year, have your day to day lives changed at all aside from winging about trump?

It all looks so ridiculous from over here, I literally saw one of the late night hosts ridiculing him for eating pie.

Reasonable Atheist:
You Americans really are going completely mad. I've been slowly watching it happen. There is mass hysteria bubble that lots of you occupy currently, one where trump is not a business man who happens to be an asshole. But instead some kind of dark lord intent on destroying your way of life. He's had power for a whole year, have your day to day lives changed at all aside from winging about trump?

It all looks so ridiculous from over here, I literally saw one of the late night hosts ridiculing him for eating pie.

Defenders of the status quo (our mainstream media and politicians) want a scapegoat to blame for the increasing angst caused by capitalism and the inequalities and corruption of our political process caused by it. For many of them, that scapegoat is Trump. They will swear up and down that Trump is exceptional, even as he acts pretty much just like any other Republican, but with less polish on the jackboots and less competent obfuscation.

Breaking news: establishment Democrats in congress turn out to be traitors to the working class they claim to represent, grant authoritarian Republican president far reaching, unchecked powers under the guise of national security

image

Sarcasm aside, I'm not at all surprised. I'm just old enough to remember the Bush years quite well. This kind of shit has been the Democratic Party's signature move my whole life.

Reasonable Atheist:
He's had power for a whole year, have your day to day lives changed at all aside from winging about trump?

Why should it have to happen to us in order for us to care?

Lives would change immensely for the worse for the people who lost CHIP, if they were to lose it. Should I shrug that off, because it doesn't affect my day-to-day life?

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2018/s12?utm_campaign=govtrack_feed&utm_source=govtrack/feed&utm_medium=rss

Let's see who voted for it...

Amy Klobuchar the person who also voted to end the shutdown, and screw the dreamers & DACA despite her great-grandfather being an immigrant from Eastern Europe.

Dianne Feinstein who voted for the Bush-era tax cuts, and the Patriot Act, AND the Iraq War.

Tim "I speak Spanish" Kaine, everyone's favorite moderate, a very serious candidate's vice president pick who also voted to end the shut down.

Chuck Schumer who sided with Netanyahu against his own country's leader.

Doug Jones Who votes for what the Republicans wanted despite Republicans backing a pedophile against him.

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