Logan Paul and the Suicide Forest SNAFU

I am just learning about this now, but looking at the videos posted in response with an upload Loan Paul did with the infamous Suicide Forest of Japan.

Here are some videos on this to get some background, but most of them are rants done at their angriest so know that they are venting and ranting.

Anime America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1CLTaxhgVg&index=4&list=WL
Double Toasted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUCxbVbaOw
Gaijin Goombah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkROPxg3V4E
The Japanese Man Yuta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNlOVdTQEIM
Asian Boss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf5dsekDBCk

There are more but this should be enough to get an idea.

Long story short I didn't pay too much attention to this guy, If I saw his name on a top ten list on Watch Mojo his name would be a blanke, and I get the impression like Pewty Pie, his Brother surprise to suprise, he's every level of jerk ranging from mean to DUCHBAG (A term I do not use lightly, but I cannot find a better one to describe him in clean language, with childish not even strong enough).

However watching Gaijin Goombah's video on what happened, I had to look at this more. I have been a fan of his for a year and I have yet to see him as anything close to this level of anger. He opens up with a disclaimer I suggest pausing so you can read it all. While most of Goombah's problem was fearing this one video ruining all the good people like him have kindled in cultural exchange, it was the last two minutes that explains it all.

For the rest of it, 22 year old Logan Paul went to Japan and posted videos of him being an Ugly American, and putting the dumb in "Dumb White Kid". This culminated in going to Aokigahara Forest.

Its also known as the Sea of Trees, but despite that romantic sounding name its reputation is much more horrifying. The reputation being people going there to commit suicide. The reasons vary and many can be similar to other tragic causes from around the world, but it doesn't take much to think at least a few of these to Karoshi: A form of work related death where the intensity or the hours get so overwhelming that you either though deteriorating health from being overworked or the pressure gets so much that death is the only solution. Goombah, The Anime Man, and Pedantic Romantic explain the concept better then I can on that aspect of Japanese culture, and VICE News has a 20 minute video where they follow a Government agent who tries to find people before they take their life and the remains of those that did that is also a must see.

So what better place to visit for this jackass to visit then a place where so many people go to end their suffering that some dregs of society make a living scavenging the remains for their valuables?

SO he goes there, videos a dead man hanging in a tree and interacting with the remains, uploads it with the dead man's image as his thumbnail. The Video has long since been taken down but during its time on Youtube it managed to get 6.2 million likes.

I am scared to go to his youtube page to view said vlogs just from the sheer fact he will be getting views from it, but holy crap is this nuts.

I am no saintly figure. I have not ascended to the heavens, I was probably just as much of a jackass at 22, was still not at 28, and probably not now at 31.

But even with Autism, I find this sickening. I have known friends and relatives that have taken their own lives. I have had friends who have died from disease and old age. I watched my father die of cancer in his bed at 3:10 in the morning. So I can, with what grains of salt I have, say I at least respect the dead. I may not like alot of people who were, and there were plenty of people who deserve death, but I wouldn't even piss on the grave of Bin Ladin or Charles Manson.

At 22 this man child should have known better. He is old enough to drink, marry, have consenting sexual activities, join the military, and about three years away from the minimum requirement to be an United States Senator.

I don't want to just leave it as Millenial as anyone born after 1980 could count as one and I know too many people that age that are, despite their falts, decent human beings. I don't want to say its just because he's a youtube celebrity, because there are plenty that get by without being a complete jackass. Hell, I am not even sure Tom Green would pull something like the Suicide Forest Stunt and he humped a dead moose!

He needs his channel pulled for a while. If nothing else remove the monitization.

I am out of things I can describe this without more F bombs then the South Park movie.

Any thoughts on this, and why this happens or what should happen next?

Oh, I heard about that. I don't know what that guy expected, going into Aokigahara with a camera running. Of course you're likely to run into a body. They pull out dozens every year.

I don't know how he could've posted the video in a more..."sensitive" way, but I don't know why he posted the video in the first place.

saint of m:
I am just learning about this now, but looking at the videos posted in response with an upload Loan Paul did with the infamous Suicide Forest of Japan.

Here are some videos on this to get some background, but most of them are rants done at their angriest so know that they are venting and ranting.

Anime America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1CLTaxhgVg&index=4&list=WL
Double Toasted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUCxbVbaOw
Gaijin Goombah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkROPxg3V4E
The Japanese Man Yuta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNlOVdTQEIM
Asian Boss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf5dsekDBCk

There are more but this should be enough to get an idea.

Long story short I didn't pay too much attention to this guy, If I saw his name on a top ten list on Watch Mojo his name would be a blanke, and I get the impression like Pewty Pie, his Brother surprise to suprise, he's every level of jerk ranging from mean to DUCHBAG (A term I do not use lightly, but I cannot find a better one to describe him in clean language, with childish not even strong enough).

However watching Gaijin Goombah's video on what happened, I had to look at this more. I have been a fan of his for a year and I have yet to see him as anything close to this level of anger. He opens up with a disclaimer I suggest pausing so you can read it all. While most of Goombah's problem was fearing this one video ruining all the good people like him have kindled in cultural exchange, it was the last two minutes that explains it all.

For the rest of it, 22 year old Logan Paul went to Japan and posted videos of him being an Ugly American, and putting the dumb in "Dumb White Kid". This culminated in going to Aokigahara Forest.

Its also known as the Sea of Trees, but despite that romantic sounding name its reputation is much more horrifying. The reputation being people going there to commit suicide. The reasons vary and many can be similar to other tragic causes from around the world, but it doesn't take much to think at least a few of these to Karoshi: A form of work related death where the intensity or the hours get so overwhelming that you either though deteriorating health from being overworked or the pressure gets so much that death is the only solution. Goombah, The Anime Man, and Pedantic Romantic explain the concept better then I can on that aspect of Japanese culture, and VICE News has a 20 minute video where they follow a Government agent who tries to find people before they take their life and the remains of those that did that is also a must see.

So what better place to visit for this jackass to visit then a place where so many people go to end their suffering that some dregs of society make a living scavenging the remains for their valuables?

SO he goes there, videos a dead man hanging in a tree and interacting with the remains, uploads it with the dead man's image as his thumbnail. The Video has long since been taken down but during its time on Youtube it managed to get 6.2 million likes.

I am scared to go to his youtube page to view said vlogs just from the sheer fact he will be getting views from it, but holy crap is this nuts.

I am no saintly figure. I have not ascended to the heavens, I was probably just as much of a jackass at 22, was still not at 28, and probably not now at 31.

But even with Autism, I find this sickening. I have known friends and relatives that have taken their own lives. I have had friends who have died from disease and old age. I watched my father die of cancer in his bed at 3:10 in the morning. So I can, with what grains of salt I have, say I at least respect the dead. I may not like alot of people who were, and there were plenty of people who deserve death, but I wouldn't even piss on the grave of Bin Ladin or Charles Manson.

At 22 this man child should have known better. He is old enough to drink, marry, have consenting sexual activities, join the military, and about three years away from the minimum requirement to be an United States Senator.

I don't want to just leave it as Millenial as anyone born after 1980 could count as one and I know too many people that age that are, despite their falts, decent human beings. I don't want to say its just because he's a youtube celebrity, because there are plenty that get by without being a complete jackass. Hell, I am not even sure Tom Green would pull something like the Suicide Forest Stunt and he humped a dead moose!

He needs his channel pulled for a while. If nothing else remove the monitization.

I am out of things I can describe this without more F bombs then the South Park movie.

Any thoughts on this, and why this happens or what should happen next?

Well, unless there?s some law he broke about interfering a body or the publicly showing the face of a dead person without the approval of their family or some such there isn't a whole lot that can be done.

Gordon_4:
I am just learning about this now, but looking at the videos posted in response with
Well, unless there?s some law he broke about interfering a body or the publically showing the face of a dead person without the approval of their family or some such there wn?t a whole lot that can be done.

Apparently there is a law about finding a dead body in Japan and not immediately reporting it to the authorities. He's not a suspect or anything, but the police want to know when and where its filmed he found a body, to recover the body, and begin their investigation into cause of death, etc...

Chances are though it was faked. The dude's a prank actor known for faking deaths before. Hell, he got famous for faking his own murder, pretending he's been shot in the face, while waving to hundreds of fans from a hotel window - an act that got hundreds of calls to the police and news crews, etc...all for the fame. He'd totally fake finding a dead body to views

Going through some of the reaction videos, apparently there is a big privacy thing in Japan. Goombah mentioned he knew someone who was sued and lost that case because the photo he took just happened to have a married man on a date with his mistress.

Several others mentioned this is a major cultural taboo of videoing the suicide person's body (combination of privacy and no one wants to be videoed at their most fragile of moments), touching the body, and doing this on a holiday.

In general, I'm not sure why, just why he thought this was a good idea. Yes, we're talking about someone what thought faking his own death via shotgun blast to the back of the head infront of a crowed was a great idea, but holy crap. He's just lucky he didn't do this to a Yakuza or a nation where you get publicly whacked with a cane for his other foolishness.

It's such a beatufiul microcosm of everything that's wrong with the culture of tourism, internet-based entertainment and western elitism. At the end of the day all of them are mostly the same story of immature fratboys nonchalantly disrespecting things they don't understand to feel better about themselves. I'm happy that this sort of thing is being called out now but as hilariously blatant this case is... well, it's part of a larger problem. Between whoever this idiot is, PewDiePie, JonTron, that one utter fucking psycho who abused his kids for years and filmed it and the plethora of slightly less famous unfunny morons on YouTube it's that YouTube has become a dwelling ground for intellectually, but mostly morally, highly objectionable people.

Frankly, I think it's sort of an inherent flaw in the system. YouTube needs moderation which, as of now, is mostly done by automatized algorithms which works for removing porn and copyrighted material but not much else. What YouTube would need is human moderation which is all but impossible for a website of this size. That could only work if you had thousands of people doing it as a full time job around the clock. And, like, I mean that's create jobs I guess but I don't know if anything like that is actually feasible.

PsychedelicDiamond:
It's such a beatufiul microcosm of everything that's wrong with the culture of tourism, internet-based entertainment and western elitism. At the end of the day all of them are mostly the same story of immature fratboys nonchalantly disrespecting things they don't understand to feel better about themselves. I'm happy that this sort of thing is being called out now but as hilariously blatant this case is... well, it's part of a larger problem. Between whoever this idiot is, PewDiePie, JonTron, that one utter fucking psycho who abused his kids for years and filmed it and the plethora of slightly less famous unfunny morons on YouTube it's that YouTube has become a dwelling ground for intellectually, but mostly morally, highly objectionable people.

Frankly, I think it's sort of an inherent flaw in the system. YouTube needs moderation which, as of now, is mostly done by automatized algorithms which works for removing porn and copyrighted material but not much else. What YouTube would need is human moderation which is all but impossible for a website of this size. That could only work if you had thousands of people doing it as a full time job around the clock. And, like, I mean that's create jobs I guess but I don't know if anything like that is actually feasible.

I have heard it claimed repeatedly that youtube is operating at a loss. I agree that youtube would be vastly improved if google tried to actually moderate it in a remotely decent way but from the perspective of the higher ups that is probably just a massive money sink that won't be needed once their algoritms get better at helping advertisers doing their thing. Those algoritms of course don't have nearly the required nuance to actually improve this situation from the perspective of decent behaviour but trying to implement a better system would be costly and would lead to flak from the worst types of people: those who would stand to lose from proper moderation.

saint of m:
Going through some of the reaction videos, apparently there is a big privacy thing in Japan. Goombah mentioned he knew someone who was sued and lost that case because the photo he took just happened to have a married man on a date with his mistress.

Several others mentioned this is a major cultural taboo of videoing the suicide person's body (combination of privacy and no one wants to be videoed at their most fragile of moments), touching the body, and doing this on a holiday.

In general, I'm not sure why, just why he thought this was a good idea. Yes, we're talking about someone what thought faking his own death via shotgun blast to the back of the head infront of a crowed was a great idea, but holy crap. He's just lucky he didn't do this to a Yakuza or a nation where you get publicly whacked with a cane for his other foolishness.

I've heard a joke once that it is considered a major faux pas at a Turkish wedding to pee on the bride twice. This reminds me of that. Desecrating corpses is a major taboo everywhere. A basic sense of common decency cultivated whereever should have stopped this.

saint of m:
In general, I'm not sure why, just why he thought this was a good idea. Yes, we're talking about someone what thought faking his own death via shotgun blast to the back of the head infront of a crowed was a great idea, but holy crap. He's just lucky he didn't do this to a Yakuza or a nation where you get publicly whacked with a cane for his other foolishness.

I don't know. Japanese police have a pretty questionable record.. like, the criminal justice system there has a 99% conviction rate, and that's partly because if you're arrested they're going to detain you for as long as necessary, sleep deprive you, harass you and (covertly) torture you into making a confession. Foreign nationals, obviously, have an extra layer of protection from their embassies, but I still wouldn't want to chance it.

Yeah, heard about that.

Everything about it makes me think it was done purely for attention.

While it's possible he wasn't expecting to run into a corpse even IN the "suicide forest", no one is dumb enough to play around next to it and put the thing in the goddamn thumbnail and not expect it to go badly for them.

Honestly, that's all I have to say on the matter. He's a manchild troll going "LOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATMELOOKATME".

The best thing to do is just dismiss him and wait for him to inevitably fuck up hard enough that he faces serious consequences.

His other, let's just say 'volatile' pranks are way worse than this. It's not even a prank, nor is it disrespectful in my opinion. He doesn't act like an idiot but merely reacts in a hopefully genuine manner. Those videos with Logan being as obnoxious as possible (or damn right traumatizing like in that shotgun stunt) are much worse. YouTube's community guidelines are proven to be trash once again. There is more depressing and disheartening stuff in the news everyday.

I see that media personalities, even on the tier of dumb shit vlogs, have a duty, and in the case of the Suicide Forest video that duty was fulfilled gracefully with a few little mistakes like the thumbnail pic and they should've thought that title through too. Unless it was fake. I reckon that would make me join the angry ones.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Between whoever this idiot is, PewDiePie, JonTron, that one utter fucking psycho who abused his kids for years and filmed it and the plethora of slightly less famous unfunny morons on YouTube it's that YouTube has become a dwelling ground for intellectually, but mostly morally, highly objectionable people.

Takes me back to the golden 00s. The favourites of that time, Smosh, Fred, and nigahiga really kept their shows "safe" for kids. Whether it was genuine or not, they didn't make material with humour aimed at people like themselves, but actually had a more or less "family friendly" audience in mind. But now in the 2010s it became more hip to make videos that the creators themselves would like to watch. The guys at Channel Awesome did it, but they are nerds. PewDiePie's low-brow screaming and other funny voices turned out very popular and so now we have content made with other 20-somethings in mind... and everybody else too, if they want. And they did, kids too, a lot of insensitive people like the creators themselves, and it hasn't been until quite recently that the surging popularity (thanks to YT's algorithms at least in part) has got them the type of audience that can fuel the Twitter etc. outrage machine.

It bugs me that now, once you get popular enough "I have a responsibility for my fans" becomes "I have a responsibility for everyone" which of course includes the sensibilities of people looking for an excuse to take you down.

He shouldn't have uploaded it. That being said... Two things.

1) I watched the vlog in question and thought it was harmless compared to the shitstorm around it. Vlogging in the suicide forest maybe isn't appropriate (more on that in point 2) but the way he acted in the video was fine. He wasn't laughing about it, wasn't making fun of it, anyone saying that is straight up bullshitting to justify their hate boner. I suspect the drama about this is 10% people upset by the vlog, 90% jealous people who can't handle that someone more obnoxious and also better looking, taller and richer than themselves is successful. Reddit for example spent a week crucifying Logan Paul. This is the same website where most of the community will defend to the death their favorite entertainers right to say "gas the k*kes haha n*gger xd 1488" in a video without getting demonotized because omg, its totally just a joke.

Like, I understand theres a difference between making a holocaust joke and filming someone who's just committed suicide but they are both insensitive. The line between "ok" and "not ok" seems very arbitrary to me, and in this case it seems more like "not Logan Paul" and "Logan Paul".

To take PewDiePie and his recent controversies as a specific example - the two arguments most commonly made to defend some of his more controversial statements are:
- While what he has said/done was offensive/disrespectful to a specific minority that shouldn't be enough to justify banning/demonotisation/controversy, in which case I don't get why this is suddenly different for Logan Paul because you are now part of the minority getting offended or
- It was just a prank bro aka the intent behind it wasn't malicious, which is just as true for Logan Paul since I seriously doubt he filmed and uploaded the vlog with the intent of hurting lots of feelings.

2) There has been a solid but unfortunately rather small group of people around the world which I belong to who, for decades, have watched entertainment and education fuse further and further together with worry. And if we hadn't already reached that point beforehand I think the explosion of websites like Youtube and Reddit has rolled entertainment and education into one big ball for younger generations.

The advantage of this is it makes learning about new concepts, places and ideas easier, more interesting and more exciting. The downside is that often, young people will choose someone like Logan Paul as their "teacher" so to speak. A few years ago the standard option for someone who finds excitement in learning about new places might have been a book or documentary, for the iGeneration and onwards its places like the front page of Reddit or their favorite vlogger. Maybe if y'all wanted to avoid this you should have done something about it beforehand, or exerted more control on what your children can and can't watch. I unironically believe children and teenagers watching Logan Paul roll through different parts of the world is just a new, unorthodox and really shitty method of learning and satisfying curiousity, and if you have a problem with that its YOUR job to help channel the natural curiousity of your younger family members into something better. Because - feel free to disagree with me on both of these - no one who unironically watched Logan Paul videos is over the mental age of 15, and what the fuck is the harm in Logan Paul doing all these shitty things if no one pays attention to him doing it.

McElroy:
It bugs me that now, once you get popular enough "I have a responsibility for my fans" becomes "I have a responsibility for everyone" which of course includes the sensibilities of people looking for an excuse to take you down.

It's more a case that once you represent a large enough audience, misbehavior on your part can create financial and even legal liabilities for your platform. There's still the ethics of the individual vs the corporation to consider, but the reasoning for these companies to be worried when one of their highest profile talents does something really stupid/offensive/in poor taste is not unsound.

Admittedly I could be reading you completely wrong on this one.

BeetleManiac:

McElroy:
It bugs me that now, once you get popular enough "I have a responsibility for my fans" becomes "I have a responsibility for everyone" which of course includes the sensibilities of people looking for an excuse to take you down.

It's more a case that once you represent a large enough audience, misbehavior on your part can create financial and even legal liabilities for your platform. There's still the ethics of the individual vs the corporation to consider, but the reasoning for these companies to be worried when one of their highest profile talents does something really stupid/offensive/in poor taste is not unsound.

Admittedly I could be reading you completely wrong on this one.

As many have pointed out, that might then be a case of "Oh, now Youtube gets standards" or a conscience, but I doubt the corporation would have been completely blind to his shenanigans. He's this generation's Tom Green; this guy has subtlety like a stampede.

BeetleManiac:

It's more a case that once you represent a large enough audience, misbehavior on your part can create financial and even legal liabilities for your platform. There's still the ethics of the individual vs the corporation to consider, but the reasoning for these companies to be worried when one of their highest profile talents does something really stupid/offensive/in poor taste is not unsound.

It's true that companies don't really trust online advertising very much (MatPat talks about it briefly here, among other things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCp4VjZLBk0). And this in turn has already made YouTube very trigger happy with the demonetize-button. However, what I also meant to say is that despite the creator making exactly the types of videos their fans want (like in this case, the video had "a seemingly uncontested 550-600,000 likes on it" before shit hit the fan and the fans sped up) they might find themselves under undue scrutiny. Of course, once you gain enough popularity it logically follows that more and more of those fans of yours attract non-fans to your content - for good or worse.

People watch all sorts of shit online, and I think advertisers should take the time to get what "a Maverick" making content for other "Mavericks" or a "bro" shooting videos for all the bros out there really mean. Or maybe these online media personalities should just go and focus on something else.

McElroy:

BeetleManiac:

It's more a case that once you represent a large enough audience, misbehavior on your part can create financial and even legal liabilities for your platform. There's still the ethics of the individual vs the corporation to consider, but the reasoning for these companies to be worried when one of their highest profile talents does something really stupid/offensive/in poor taste is not unsound.

It's true that companies don't really trust online advertising very much (MatPat talks about it briefly here, among other things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCp4VjZLBk0). And this in turn has already made YouTube very trigger happy with the demonetize-button. However, what I also meant to say is that despite the creator making exactly the types of videos their fans want (like in this case, the video had "a seemingly uncontested 550-600,000 likes on it" before shit hit the fan and the fans sped up) they might find themselves under undue scrutiny. Of course, once you gain enough popularity it logically follows that more and more of those fans of yours attract non-fans to your content - for good or worse.

People watch all sorts of shit online, and I think advertisers should take the time to get what "a Maverick" making content for other "Mavericks" or a "bro" shooting videos for all the bros out there really mean. Or maybe these online media personalities should just go and focus on something else.

I was just watching that MatPat video, and I found his explanation on how the algorithm for trending and recommendation videos much more interesting: it gives priority to videos embedded in external sites (like news outlets). Controversy articles give more views to such sites, thus feeding the algorithm and giving the video much more exposure by putting it on the top of recommended. With these kinds of incentives, none of the involved has a good reason to stop doing it; so it will just keep getting worse (more frequent and louder).

CaitSeith:

McElroy:

BeetleManiac:

It's more a case that once you represent a large enough audience, misbehavior on your part can create financial and even legal liabilities for your platform. There's still the ethics of the individual vs the corporation to consider, but the reasoning for these companies to be worried when one of their highest profile talents does something really stupid/offensive/in poor taste is not unsound.

It's true that companies don't really trust online advertising very much (MatPat talks about it briefly here, among other things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCp4VjZLBk0). And this in turn has already made YouTube very trigger happy with the demonetize-button. However, what I also meant to say is that despite the creator making exactly the types of videos their fans want (like in this case, the video had "a seemingly uncontested 550-600,000 likes on it" before shit hit the fan and the fans sped up) they might find themselves under undue scrutiny. Of course, once you gain enough popularity it logically follows that more and more of those fans of yours attract non-fans to your content - for good or worse.

People watch all sorts of shit online, and I think advertisers should take the time to get what "a Maverick" making content for other "Mavericks" or a "bro" shooting videos for all the bros out there really mean. Or maybe these online media personalities should just go and focus on something else.

I was just watching that MatPat video, and I found his explanation on how the algorithm for trending and recommendation videos much more interesting: it gives priority to videos embedded in external sites (like news outlets). Controversy articles give more views to such sites, thus feeding the algorithm and giving the video much more exposure by putting it on the top of recommended. With these kinds of incentives, none of the involved has a good reason to stop doing it; so it will just keep getting worse (more frequent and louder).

So its a circle jerk then? Contraversial personalities get passed around, get big, get notied, then head back to the source as posative feedback.

If this is the case, I might just put a link for Brows Held High videos at the end of all my posts just so a more deserving conent creator gets some views.

saint of m:

CaitSeith:

I was just watching that MatPat video, and I found his explanation on how the algorithm for trending and recommendation videos much more interesting: it gives priority to videos embedded in external sites (like news outlets). Controversy articles give more views to such sites, thus feeding the algorithm and giving the video much more exposure by putting it on the top of recommended. With these kinds of incentives, none of the involved has a good reason to stop doing it; so it will just keep getting worse (more frequent and louder).

So its a circle jerk then? Contraversial personalities get passed around, get big, get notied, then head back to the source as posative feedback.

If this is the case, I might just put a link for Brows Held High videos at the end of all my posts just so a more deserving conent creator gets some views.

I don't think it would do much good. The video says embeds from "trusted" publishing websites; and this is The Escapist, so...

EDIT: Really isn't a circle jerk, because the websites aren't from Youtubers or Youtube-centric websites. They are more mainstream with a broader audience than most Youtube channels have; which mention a Youtube video only if they think it will interest to the part of their audience who don't dwell in Youtube.

 

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