Sweden is apparently a war zone now

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"In a country of 10m people, more than 320 shootings and dozens of bombings were reported in 2017, along with more than 110 murders and 7,226 rapes ? a 10% increase on 2016. More than 36% of young Swedish women say they feel unsafe at night."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9

"In Malmo, where a fifth of the 340,000 inhabitants are under 18, children as young as 14 roam the streets with Kalashnikov assault rifles and bulletproof vests. The average age of gang members is 22, the vast majority of them hailing from migrant families."

"Ted Eriksson, 34, was inspired to become a police officer after a stint as an assistant to Kenneth Branagh, the British actor, during the filming of the Wallander crime series.

Last August Eriksson was on duty at a pro-refugee rally in Stockholm when he was stabbed by an Afghan asylum seeker. He survived with minor injuries. The assailant claimed to be 17 but was suspected of being in his late twenties. He said he wanted to kill a policeman."

So yeah... this is a thing now.
Any thoughts?

Vanilla ISIS:
"In a country of 10m people, more than 320 shootings and dozens of bombings were reported in 2017, along with more than 110 murders and 7,226 rapes ? a 10% increase on 2016. More than 36% of young Swedish women say they feel unsafe at night."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9

"In Malmo, where a fifth of the 340,000 inhabitants are under 18, children as young as 14 roam the streets with Kalashnikov assault rifles and bulletproof vests. The average age of gang members is 22, the vast majority of them hailing from migrant families."

"Ted Eriksson, 34, was inspired to become a police officer after a stint as an assistant to Kenneth Branagh, the British actor, during the filming of the Wallander crime series.

Last August Eriksson was on duty at a pro-refugee rally in Stockholm when he was stabbed by an Afghan asylum seeker. He survived with minor injuries. The assailant claimed to be 17 but was suspected of being in his late twenties. He said he wanted to kill a policeman."

So yeah... this is a thing now.
Any thoughts?

Where are the actual statistics that this data is being pulled from? The article has a paywall, and I can't find anything more recent than the full year of 2016 in my searching so far.

That article exaggerates. Sweden is currently in the throes of a gang war, that's true, which accounts for a lot of the shootings and grenade throwings. The increase in rape reportings are not likely linked to an increase in actual rapes but an increased willingness of women to report rapes in the wake of #metoo and over a decade of work by Swedish feminists to get and keep discussions about rape culture in the political awareness.

What can be said is that there's a significant crime gang problem in Sweden, which seems to ride on the back of an increased alienation of poor suburbs in major cities and is intensified by failed reforms of the Swedish police which have resulted in less police on the streets and less solved crimes in general and lots of police officers leaving the force. Sweden is definitely troubled, but the idea that 14 year olds would walk openly with assault rifles and bullet proofs vests is ludicrous.

*Looks at OP profile picture*

*Looks that it's a source to a center-right British news source*

*Looks to find that no other news organization is talking about terrorism in Sweden other than the one guy who did a car bombing back in April.*

Maybe any European, Swedish, or better informed members here can clear the air for us?

Edit: Gethsemani saves the day once more.

Mexico called. He said "cry me a freaking river".

Gethsemani:
That article exaggerates. Sweden is currently in the throes of a gang war, that's true, which accounts for a lot of the shootings and grenade throwings. The increase in rape reportings are not likely linked to an increase in actual rapes but an increased willingness of women to report rapes in the wake of #metoo and over a decade of work by Swedish feminists to get and keep discussions about rape culture in the political awareness.

What can be said is that there's a significant crime gang problem in Sweden, which seems to ride on the back of an increased alienation of poor suburbs in major cities and is intensified by failed reforms of the Swedish police which have resulted in less police on the streets and less solved crimes in general and lots of police officers leaving the force. Sweden is definitely troubled, but the idea that 14 year olds would walk openly with assault rifles and bullet proofs vests is ludicrous.

Doesn't this all go back to how there are just parts of Stockholm and other major cities that don't get patrolled as often by police that happen to not be well-trained, and these parts happen to be the only areas that immigrants and the urban poor can afford to live in because they're so neglected? I'm pretty sure "no-go zones" like this and the gangs that go with it was a problem long before the refugee crisis.

Phh, amateurs.

I mean seriously, if Sweden were a state, it'd be one of the safest states in the United States.

And somehow that's a "war zone"?

Just as a reference, these are the most recent official stats available (2016):

https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/swedish-crime-survey.html

Also, take the time to read their "foreigners like to misrepresent our country's crime statistics so here's how they work" page:
https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/international-comparisons.html

Is this about as real as those No Go Zones from last year?

NemotheElvenPanda:

Doesn't this all go back to how there are just parts of Stockholm and other major cities that don't get patrolled as often by police that happen to not be well-trained, and these parts happen to be the only areas that immigrants and the urban poor can afford to live in because they're so neglected? I'm pretty sure "no-go zones" like this and the gangs that go with it was a problem long before the refugee crisis.

Pretty much. What has happened in the last few years is that the police reform (which, in short, centralized the police and reduced the number of police stations in favor of larger stations) did not provide a leaner, more cost effective police force, since it removed the patrolling police officers from quite a lot of places, ranging from small rural communities to the suburbs of many of the larger cities, since all police officers were centralized to the huge police stations in the city center. This in turn meant that the poor suburbs with high concentrations of immigrants lost not only visible police officers, but also the trust of the community, which caused a cascade effect where crimes stopped being reported, which allowed for progressively more violent gang crimes. This during a period when all the larger gangs in Sweden tried to move up their positions, which has resulted in gang warfare in Gothenburg and Malmo in particular.

And that's pretty much what the "no-go zones" are, especially vulnerable areas (to use the police's own definition) where the lack of civil society presence (police, social services etc.) has caused a vacuum that has allowed "parallel social structures" to rise (which means religious extremism and criminal organizations in plain language). It is a tragedy that so many teenagers are being killed in gang fighting, but these are not open warzones, it is short shoot outs and hurried grenade throws before the cops show up. And they will show up still, occasionally arresting people on the scene if the gangs don't scatter quickly enough.

altnameJag:
Phh, amateurs.

I mean seriously, if Sweden were a state, it'd be one of the safest states in the United States.

And somehow that's a "war zone"?

Them scary immigants tho

Another Swede reporting in, not that it will matter. Nothing I say will sway anyone living in denial.

Sweden is going downhill fast, and accelerating. It's even worse than that article makes it out to be.
Corruption and crime is rampant.

I could link article after article everyday, and it would be booed out as exaggerated, biased, fake news, racist, sexist.. All the typical dismissive words that get used to deny any shortcomings of either immigrant culture or swedens current government.

The fact of the matter is twofold. Swedens soft and liberal policy on cultural relativism and Islams incompatibility with western ideals.

Now, I'm not Swedish, or in Sweden, so I ain't an authority here.

That said, one look at the first local Malmo news page Google throws up is rather depressingly educating. https://www.thelocal.se/tag/malm%C3%B6

Almost entirely blasts, shootings, rapes and anti-semitism. Dismissing the OP as hyperbole is rather blase, when you compare it to the local news in any other small town.

That said, this is possibly my favourite local news story ever: https://www.thelocal.se/20171017/gang-hijacked-malm-grocery-store-and-ran-it-as-normal-for-a-day

undeadsuitor:
Is this about as real as those No Go Zones from last year?

You know it's odd that this conspiracy theory that the police, fire fighters, ambulance drivers, journalists both from Sweden and abroad (with actors of course) and government are all working together to make the police and government look bad by pretending the No Go Zones are real is the oddest conspiracy theory I've ever seen.

Or maybe some internet radicals who support the failed policies that caused the problem are just wrong as usual.

Hard to tell which is the case.

Vendor-Lazarus:
Another Swede reporting in, not that it will matter. Nothing I say will sway anyone living in denial.

Sweden is going downhill fast, and accelerating. It's even worse than that article makes it out to be.
Corruption and crime is rampant.

I could link article after article everyday, and it would be booed out as exaggerated, biased, fake news, racist, sexist.. All the typical dismissive words that get used to deny any shortcomings of either immigrant culture or swedens current government.

The fact of the matter is twofold. Swedens soft and liberal policy on cultural relativism and Islams incompatibility with western ideals.

Do you have any hard data that supports this (ie: not random articles)? The latest I could find was https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/swedish-crime-survey.html. The OP's article is paywalled, so it's impossible to take a look at the stats they used for it. The bra.se info (which I think is roughly official?) doesn't, in any way, substantiate any of the "warzone," "roving packs of rapists," or "societal collapse" claims.

However,

altnameJag:
Phh, amateurs.

I mean seriously, if Sweden were a state, it'd be one of the safest states in the United States.

And somehow that's a "war zone"?

is entirely correct. None of the people losing their minds over immigrants in Sweden turning the country "into a warzone" talk about how and why the US is significantly worse on every level.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-1

===============================================================================

I'm also going to repeat this in every one of my posts in this thread because outrage-hungry conservatives seem to ignore it regularly:

"Sometimes, simplistic or inaccurate information can be read about crime in Sweden. It is easy to misinterpret crime statistics, and this is especially true when it comes to making international comparisons. Here are the reasons why."

Catnip1024:
Now, I'm not Swedish, or in Sweden, so I ain't an authority here.

That said, one look at the first local Malmo news page Google throws up is rather depressingly educating. https://www.thelocal.se/tag/malm%C3%B6

Almost entirely blasts, shootings, rapes and anti-semitism. Dismissing the OP as hyperbole is rather blase, when you compare it to the local news in any other small town.

That said, this is possibly my favourite local news story ever: https://www.thelocal.se/20171017/gang-hijacked-malm-grocery-store-and-ran-it-as-normal-for-a-day

No one is dismissing that Sweden has its problems.

NemotheElvenPanda:

Catnip1024:
Now, I'm not Swedish, or in Sweden, so I ain't an authority here.

That said, one look at the first local Malmo news page Google throws up is rather depressingly educating. https://www.thelocal.se/tag/malm%C3%B6

Almost entirely blasts, shootings, rapes and anti-semitism. Dismissing the OP as hyperbole is rather blase, when you compare it to the local news in any other small town.

That said, this is possibly my favourite local news story ever: https://www.thelocal.se/20171017/gang-hijacked-malm-grocery-store-and-ran-it-as-normal-for-a-day

No one is dismissing that Sweden has its problems.

Well, there's at least one post up there attempting to dismiss this as fake news.

And the sad thing is, everyone is leaping to the assumption that it's entirely migration related. Sure, a number of those stories are. But gang crime is gang crime regardless. Even the bizarrely polite Swedish gang crime where you restock shelves.

Catnip1024:

NemotheElvenPanda:

Catnip1024:
Now, I'm not Swedish, or in Sweden, so I ain't an authority here.

That said, one look at the first local Malmo news page Google throws up is rather depressingly educating. https://www.thelocal.se/tag/malm%C3%B6

Almost entirely blasts, shootings, rapes and anti-semitism. Dismissing the OP as hyperbole is rather blase, when you compare it to the local news in any other small town.

That said, this is possibly my favourite local news story ever: https://www.thelocal.se/20171017/gang-hijacked-malm-grocery-store-and-ran-it-as-normal-for-a-day

No one is dismissing that Sweden has its problems.

Well, there's at least one post up there attempting to dismiss this as fake news.

And the sad thing is, everyone is leaping to the assumption that it's entirely migration related. Sure, a number of those stories are. But gang crime is gang crime regardless. Even the bizarrely polite Swedish gang crime where you restock shelves.

Because whenever people suddenly start caring about crime and violence in Sweden, it's almost always in relation to its immigrants. Always. There's a reason why I mentioned that the article is a rightist publication adored by nationalists.

People who bring this sort of thing up don't care about the crime itself, but who they think is behind it. As has been previously mentioned, the gangs and lack of police isn't a new problem.

NemotheElvenPanda:
Because whenever people suddenly start caring about crime and violence in Sweden, it's almost always in relation to its immigrants. Always. There's a reason why I mentioned that the article is a rightist publication adored by nationalists.

People who bring this sort of thing up don't care about the crime itself, but who they think is behind it. As has been previously mentioned, the gangs and lack of police isn't a new problem.

And the people who dismiss it also don't care about the crime itself. They spout bullshit like "at least it's not as bad as the US". Like that's something you want to be benchmarking yourself against.

You have a very warped view of the world if you believe the Times is nationalist. It's conservative, but to call it nationalist is a bizarre leap of faith.

Catnip1024:
And the people who dismiss it also don't care about the crime itself. They spout bullshit like "at least it's not as bad as the US". Like that's something you want to be benchmarking yourself against.

You have a very warped view of the world if you believe the Times is nationalist. It's conservative, but to call it nationalist is a bizarre leap of faith.

I feel I have a very vested interest in it, seeing as how it is my home country and all and a lot of it is taking place in areas near some of my family members. That being said, the Times are exaggerating. I've already stated that Sweden has problems with gang criminality, alienation in suburbs and a weakened police force. These are all contributing factors and the (in)famous "no go zone"-report actually provides quite a lot of detail on how the Police intends to work with the rest of civil society to deal with these problems. Sweden is not as great as it used to be, but it is nowhere near as troubled as the Times wants you to think.

Catnip1024:
And the people who dismiss it also don't care about the crime itself.

Which no one here has actually done. Multiple posters, myself included, recognize that there's a gang violence issue. What is being stated that was left out is that this isn't a new thing. Many cities in Europe are like Stockholm where there are isolated suburbs that just don't get the attention they need and deserve, and it more or less causes a domino effect.

They spout bullshit like "at least it's not as bad as the US". Like that's something you want to be benchmarking yourself against.

One person mentioned Mexico, which, comparative to Sweden and even the USA, is substantially, objectively, far worse. Sweden's gangs aren't like Mexican cartels. They're both bad, they're both criminal, but they're not in anywhere the same ballpark.

You have a very warped view of the world if you believe the Times is nationalist. It's conservative, but to call it nationalist is a bizarre leap of faith.

The point is that it's a publication that's favored by parties and factions that don't like immigrants very much, even though this problem, again, existed before the recent immigration surge.

Gethsemani:
I feel I have a very vested interest in it, seeing as how it is my home country and all and a lot of it is taking place in areas near some of my family members. That being said, the Times are exaggerating. I've already stated that Sweden has problems with gang criminality, alienation in suburbs and a weakened police force. These are all contributing factors and the (in)famous "no go zone"-report actually provides quite a lot of detail on how the Police intends to work with the rest of civil society to deal with these problems. Sweden is not as great as it used to be, but it is nowhere near as troubled as the Times wants you to think.

I wasn't referring to yourself, you made a fairly well-balanced post from the point of view of an actual native.

NemotheElvenPanda:

Catnip1024:
And the people who dismiss it also don't care about the crime itself.

Which no one here has actually done.

What do you call post No. 9 if not a dismissal?

One person mentioned Mexico, which, comparative to Sweden and even the USA, is substantially, objectively, far worse. Sweden's gangs aren't like Mexican cartels. They're both bad, they're both criminal, but they're not in anywhere the same ballpark.

And again, why are we benchmarking ourselves against the very worst places in the world? Setting aside the futility of comparing between nations. What happened to the good old days of aspirational targets?

The point is that it's a publication that's favored by parties and factions that don't like immigrants very much, even though this problem, again, existed before the recent immigration surge.

Are you aware of much about UK politics? The Conservatives are at least as pro-immigration as any other party bar potentially the Lib Dems, with a fringe that is against it. They are implementing Brexit because it is the result of a referendum, and any curbs to immigration as a result of that will be entirely to cling onto power. I don't know how you turn that into them being a bunch of nationalists.

The Tories don't care so long as business is happy. Business is happy with plenty of cheap labour. Immigration provides cheap labour.

People round here really need to stop broadbrush dismissal of media outlets they disagree with. The Times is not a tabloid. I haven't read it much, but in my eyes it's always been a slightly stuffy yet reputable source. You can't just call something anti-immigrant because it publishes stories that make immigrants look bad.

That said, clearer referencing of sources across the media would be a wonderful thing.

Vendor-Lazarus:

The fact of the matter is twofold. Swedens soft and liberal policy on cultural relativism and Islams incompatibility with western ideals.

Anyone making the claim that this is something to do with Islam really needs to find a way to reconcile that argument with the fact that Sweden (and the Scandinavian states more generally) are some of, if not the, most secular societies in the world.

Also, it seems that the most serious issues of gang violence are among Swedish natives, not immigrants or Muslims.

But I guess it's not PC to talk about Swede-on-Swede crime.

Catnip1024:

What do you call post No. 9 if not a dismissal?

Because it's not a dismissal. No-go zones, as in areas where non-Muslims can't go because Sharia law suddenly applies there, don't exist. Similarly, the idea that *Muslim immigrants* are behind the crime is not true.

Again, this is a problem that's always existed in one form or another in pretty much any major city, and suddenly now people are caring about it?

And again, why are we benchmarking ourselves against the very worst places in the world? Setting aside the futility of comparing between nations. What happened to the good old days of aspirational targets?

That's what Sweden's been trying to do now. There isn't any benchmarking of the sort, just that what people claim to be concerned about in Stockholm has been a much larger problem in other parts of the west that no one's paid attention to. It goes back to my point that the people who complain about what's going on in Stockholm don't actually care about the crime in of itself. It just serves to push their nationalistic and anti-immigrant message. Cities like Munich, Krakou, London, Madrid, Cardiff, and other major European centers have arguably a much longer and worse history than Stockholm when it comes to crime, but no one cares because that can't be pinned on immigrants.

You can't just call something anti-immigrant because it publishes stories that make immigrants look bad.

That said, clearer referencing of sources across the media would be a wonderful thing.

Again, has always been a problem in Stockholm. Again, it's not the Swedish authority stating that the blame is on immigrants. You tell me.

renegade7:

Vendor-Lazarus:

The fact of the matter is twofold. Swedens soft and liberal policy on cultural relativism and Islams incompatibility with western ideals.

Anyone making the claim that this is something to do with Islam really needs to find a way to reconcile that argument with the fact that Sweden (and the Scandinavian states more generally) are some of, if not the, most secular societies in the world.

Also, it seems that the most serious issues of gang violence are among Swedish natives, not immigrants or Muslims.

But I guess it's not PC to talk about Swede-on-Swede crime.

Care to post a source that it is Swede on Swede crime becuase from I understand Sweden was so crime free that there is hardly any Swede on Swede crime.

And now only reports of sevear crime rates suddenly surfaced ever since Muslim immgration became a thing.

Vanilla ISIS:
"In a country of 10m people, more than 320 shootings and dozens of bombings were reported in 2017, along with more than 110 murders and 7,226 rapes ? a 10% increase on 2016. More than 36% of young Swedish women say they feel unsafe at night."

For some context, that puts the Swedish murder rate below the European average by a factor of 2.6 and below the world average by a factor of 5.2, below the US by a factor of 4.2. The murder rate is higher than that of neigbor countries Norway and Denmark but lower than that of neighbor country Finland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Now obviously, criminal gangs who murder one another and those caught in the crossfire are a problem and I hope the Swedes manage to reduce that as much as possible but the scope of the Swedish problems in this regard seems to be on the small side.

Samtemdo8:

renegade7:

Vendor-Lazarus:

The fact of the matter is twofold. Swedens soft and liberal policy on cultural relativism and Islams incompatibility with western ideals.

Anyone making the claim that this is something to do with Islam really needs to find a way to reconcile that argument with the fact that Sweden (and the Scandinavian states more generally) are some of, if not the, most secular societies in the world.

Also, it seems that the most serious issues of gang violence are among Swedish natives, not immigrants or Muslims.

But I guess it's not PC to talk about Swede-on-Swede crime.

Care to post a source that it is Swede on Swede crime becuase from I understand Sweden was so crime free that there is hardly any Swede on Swede crime.

And now only reports of sevear crime rates suddenly surfaced ever since Muslim immgration became a thing.

I've posted a couple of times looking for statistics on this more. If you look above, I made a post with (what seems like) an official Swedish crime report for 2016. You can see from their data that there hasn't been any ridiculous spike in violent crimes, their violent crime rate is well below the world and EU averages (see Pseudonym's post above) and the US.

As for why you are only hearing about it now, that's probably because before conservatives started, in mass, to lose their minds over immigration and Islam in particular, there was no reason to report Swede on Swede crime internationally. It only started being brought up internationally once the right-wing figured out how to spin those events into their alternative facts of warzones, societal collapse, and roving groups of rapists to further their agenda.

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:
Is this about as real as those No Go Zones from last year?

You know it's odd that this conspiracy theory that the police, fire fighters, ambulance drivers, journalists both from Sweden and abroad (with actors of course) and government are all working together to make the police and government look bad by pretending the No Go Zones are real is the oddest conspiracy theory I've ever seen.

Or maybe some internet radicals who support the failed policies that caused the problem are just wrong as usual.

Hard to tell which is the case.

nah, the whole no go zone thing was just fox news misquoting foreign media in order to perpetuate the idea that open immigration is bad because those no go countries let in immigrants and now look at how awful they are

Avnger:

Samtemdo8:

renegade7:

Anyone making the claim that this is something to do with Islam really needs to find a way to reconcile that argument with the fact that Sweden (and the Scandinavian states more generally) are some of, if not the, most secular societies in the world.

Also, it seems that the most serious issues of gang violence are among Swedish natives, not immigrants or Muslims.

But I guess it's not PC to talk about Swede-on-Swede crime.

Care to post a source that it is Swede on Swede crime becuase from I understand Sweden was so crime free that there is hardly any Swede on Swede crime.

And now only reports of sevear crime rates suddenly surfaced ever since Muslim immgration became a thing.

I've posted a couple of times looking for statistics on this more. If you look above, I made a post with (what seems like) an official Swedish crime report for 2016. You can see from their data that there hasn't been any ridiculous spike in violent crimes, their violent crime rate is well below the world and EU averages (see Pseudonym's post above) and the US.

As for why you are only hearing about it now, that's probably because before conservatives started, in mass, to lose their minds over immigration and Islam in particular, there was no reason to report Swede on Swede crime internationally. It only started being brought up internationally once the right-wing figured out how to spin those events into their alternative facts of warzones, societal collapse, and roving groups of rapists to further their agenda.

The only way I'll truly know is if I live in Sweden for 5 years to decide for myself.

image

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:
Is this about as real as those No Go Zones from last year?

You know it's odd that this conspiracy theory that the police, fire fighters, ambulance drivers, journalists both from Sweden and abroad (with actors of course) and government are all working together to make the police and government look bad by pretending the No Go Zones are real is the oddest conspiracy theory I've ever seen.

Or maybe some internet radicals who support the failed policies that caused the problem are just wrong as usual.

Hard to tell which is the case.

nah, the whole no go zone thing was just fox news misquoting foreign media in order to perpetuate the idea that open immigration is bad because those no go countries let in immigrants and now look at how awful they are

Which caused one of the Trump appointed ambassadors to the Netherlands to get his ass handed to him by the Dutch media for claiming that immigrants were burning cars and shooting people. Good times.

undeadsuitor:

nah, the whole no go zone thing was just fox news misquoting foreign media in order to perpetuate the idea that open immigration is bad because those no go countries let in immigrants and now look at how awful they are

And yet the Swedish government and police have only stated that the no go zones are real, while the totality of those who claim they are lying to make themselves look bad for whatever reason are all ideologically driven people from the same fringe political groups.

Interesting. Is this the crime equivalent of climate denial? Certainly has the same overwhelming evidence to one side while the other pretends their belief that there is nothing wrong is all that drives them.

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:

nah, the whole no go zone thing was just fox news misquoting foreign media in order to perpetuate the idea that open immigration is bad because those no go countries let in immigrants and now look at how awful they are

And yet the Swedish government and police have only stated that the no go zones are real, while the totality of those who claim they are lying to make themselves look bad for whatever reason are all ideologically driven people from the same fringe political groups.

Interesting. Is this the crime equivalent of climate denial? Certainly has the same overwhelming evidence to one side while the other pretends their belief that there is nothing wrong is all that drives them.

No-go zones, as in areas that tend to be neglected by police and have high rates of crime exist.
No-go zones, as in areas that are run by immams and Sharia law, do not exist.

I don't know, I've never been to a war zone (I've been to Mindanao and Papua New Guinea if that counts), but I have been to a fair few 'conflict zones' ... places where you hear screams in the night, broken glass, occasional gunfire, and replete with a government/militia telling people to not go digging a bit too deep lest you might end up on someone's list. Places where you hide in hotels or within compounds... places where you might have to travel at night or through jungle undergrowth and abandon most of your stuff.

Bandage money and your passport beneath improvised rags and medical gauze to real or faked injuries to ensure you have something to trade for essential goods or services while simply waiting for a chance to leave. That visa debit card will mean fuck all when a town has persistently faced crippling looting, energy shortages, and general unlawfulness. Either you have something physical to trade or you starve.

Fortunately I have a passport from a country that, regardless of how poor I seem to be, or dirty I am when I rock up to customs anywhere in the world, they'll just rubber stamp me after I contact my embassy... it's almost as if there are double standards on this shit regardless of my character (I wouldn't class myself as entirely fixated on being lawful) ... more than willing to bet certain right wingers would probably champion my case while missing that irony...

I don't chalk up Sweden as being one of those places. You know, given that they have about a quarter the homicide rate of the U.S. Of which I wouldn't label a conflict zone, either. Sweden has the same homicide rate as Australia, and I'm not hiding out in a pocked hotel in Sydney or crawling through mud to get to the air or seaport looking to barter travel out of the country.

All you Western "right winger" types are snowflakes. Get some real world perspective... go out of your little bubbles, see the world, talk to people, then you can talk about 'war zones'. Be careful, though. You might just begin to empathize with all those people fleeing militias and the like after they've had their homes, businesses and family members burned, cratered, ransacked, and shot up by Chinese, French, German, Russian and U.S. traded munitions and weapons platforms to said governments and militias in the first place...

NemotheElvenPanda:

No-go zones, as in areas that tend to be neglected by police and have high rates of crime exist.
No-go zones, as in areas that are run by immams and Sharia law, do not exist.

Neither of these is what anyone outside of the far left echo chamber refer to when talking about the no-go zones.

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