Who are the Atomwaffen and what do they Represent?

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Like, to second a bunch of people, this kind of stuff isn't so scary to me. It's the tip of the iceberg.

I think what scares me far more is the cooption of quote/unquote "geek culture" into a right wing media pipeline, and the increasing mobility between libetarianism -> civic nationalism -> white nationalism. I mean, sure, that's going to lead to a few messed up kids who murder people, but that's kind of normal in America. I think what's more scary is that we might end up with a generation of white men with overt white nationalist sympathies, that there might be a prolonged cultural movement backwards into a prolonged period of reactionary racism, sexism and homophobia and that we might genuinely lose a lot of the cultural gains made in the past few decades.

Sure, it's not as apocalyptic as people bombing a nuclear power plant (which isn't going to do much anyway unless you know what you're doing) but the damage will be real and far greater in the long term.

evilthecat:

I think what scares me far more is the cooption of quote/unquote "geek culture" into a right wing media pipeline, and the increasing mobility between libetarianism -> civic nationalism -> white nationalism.

Interesting you should bring that up because i always did wonder how that happened. Traditionally speaking, "nerd culture" in general and gaming culture specifically has always been fairly progressive. For a few years now I've seen a lot of rightist sentiment popping up on geeky hobbyist sites. I mean, I was an early GamerGate supporter, passionately so, but even I noticed that a lot of the personalities associated with GamerGate popped up again as Trump cheerleaders during the last election. Hell, even during GamerGate there was a very vocal fraction among them that seemed to care not so much about weeding out corruption in gaming journalism but more so in attacking progressive voices in gaming journalism. Which begs the question if the whole thing wasn't a political smokescreen in the first place.

And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold? Why in a group and during a cause that should, logically speaking, rather have been critical of capitalism than progressivism? I think if we can explain that we'd get a lot of insight into how neofascist subversion works.

PsychedelicDiamond:

evilthecat:

I think what scares me far more is the cooption of quote/unquote "geek culture" into a right wing media pipeline, and the increasing mobility between libetarianism -> civic nationalism -> white nationalism.

Interesting you should bring that up because i always did wonder how that happened. Traditionally speaking, "nerd culture" in general and gaming culture specifically has always been fairly progressive. For a few years now I've seen a lot of rightist sentiment popping up on geeky hobbyist sites. I mean, I was an early GamerGate supporter, passionately so, but even I noticed that a lot of the personalities associated with GamerGate popped up again as Trump cheerleaders during the last election. Hell, even during GamerGate there was a very vocal fraction among them that seemed to care not so much about weeding out corruption in gaming journalism but more so in attacking progressive voices in gaming journalism. Which begs the question if the whole thing wasn't a political smokescreen in the first place.

And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold? Why in a group and during a cause that should, logically speaking, rather have been critical of capitalism than progressivism? I think if we can explain that we'd get a lot of insight into how neofascist subversion works.

It's not subversion though, it's reactionary. This always amused me because the answer is RIGHT THERE but people refuse to see it.

There was a really good post about fandoms and "progressives" on DakkaDakka since there's a bit if discussion about female representation in Warhammer 40k. This was part of a several page long argument between the poster and other people, I just took the first most relevant part I found.

But a word of advice: Shotgun-blasting an entire community and telling them how they're full of racists and sexists? Yeah, good luck getting your voice heard. You wanna roll up into a hobby I enjoy, without knowing me or my thoughts, and label me some sort of bigot? Or even better- a 'Basement dwelling neckbeard virgin'- you know, like the sort of thing an outsider would say that doesn't know anything about the hobby or the actual people in it? Yeah, you're gonna get hostility.

More perspective: I go into a pub for the first time. "Wow, all this baseball stuff is so awesome. But you know, it'd be better if this were also a basketball theme!" People are going to look at me like "Who the hell are you?" And if all I do is complain about the people there- you're damned right I'm gonna feel unwelcome after a bit. I SHOULD.

I don't want 'more women' in gaming- I want more gamers in gaming. I don't care if they're women, men, black, or white. I want them to be here because what we have is awesome to them, and they want to have fun. I'm not in the business of specifically recruiting demographics. Literally no one is unwelcome at any of my tables, unless you're a troublemaker or drama-queen (or you put ranch on pizza).

When you attack a community, the community will fight back. In this case when approach a prodominantly white male group and yell horrible things at them why are you surprised that they'll move away from you and towards the people who DON'T yell horrible things at them?

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Snip

React to being accused of being full of racists and sexists by falling in with the sexists and racists and also the homophobes. Oh gee, those angry gamers sure proved those feminazis wrong. I just sure hope they still don't unironically call them feminazis, because they're flirting with the group with the highest concentration of actual Nazis. I imagine the irony is lost on them, because some people said their games could be better and now they're joining up with the political group that sees women as fleshlights.

Oh, and there's a lot of classics here. The idea that progressives are an outsider to the gaming the community. I've been gaming since I was three and the industry's approach towards women has gotten better, but in a lot of ways is still utterly pathetic. Sexy Shelob comes to mind. The idea that the ideals of progressives are utterly incompatable with gaming. That must be why Hellblade, Senua's sacrafice came out, got a warm reception and did nothing to hurt the gaming industry. And let's not forget acting like the whole industry is a zero sum game, like if you do something to appeal to another demographic it's going to hurt the industry. Also, I find it hilarious that the post you provided has a problem with appealing to specific demographics considering the massive chunk of the game industry that panders to teenage boys. Except it's never called pandering when they go for that demographic. For some reason.

And as someone who is part of the community, I feel like the community is fighting back against me, the people who are part of the community but have been declared undesirables. I know it feels good to present this as gamers being under siege by hostile outsiders, but let me tell you right now, that isn't what's happening and it has never been happening. Me and so many other people who have some issues with gaming have been gaming our entire lives, and I find it a little disturbing how quickly people reach for, what is essentially, a No True Scotsman argument in all but name. Oh, and these people have been yelling terrible things at me, but I get the funny feeling that you wouldn't be sympathetic if I took that and used it as an excuse to be sympathetic towards Antifa. Not that I will be, because I won't be joining a radical political group over some asshole saying shit to me about video games. Because I'm not a cunt.

PsychedelicDiamond:

evilthecat:

I think what scares me far more is the cooption of quote/unquote "geek culture" into a right wing media pipeline, and the increasing mobility between libetarianism -> civic nationalism -> white nationalism.

Interesting you should bring that up because i always did wonder how that happened. Traditionally speaking, "nerd culture" in general and gaming culture specifically has always been fairly progressive. For a few years now I've seen a lot of rightist sentiment popping up on geeky hobbyist sites. I mean, I was an early GamerGate supporter, passionately so, but even I noticed that a lot of the personalities associated with GamerGate popped up again as Trump cheerleaders during the last election. Hell, even during GamerGate there was a very vocal fraction among them that seemed to care not so much about weeding out corruption in gaming journalism but more so in attacking progressive voices in gaming journalism. Which begs the question if the whole thing wasn't a political smokescreen in the first place.

And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold? Why in a group and during a cause that should, logically speaking, rather have been critical of capitalism than progressivism? I think if we can explain that we'd get a lot of insight into how neofascist subversion works.

Its just reactionary backlash against idpol. I'm not sure exactly when but at some point idpol decided to change terminology - from critic of "capitalism" to critic of "whiteness", perhaps because it sounds more exciting, I don't know - and, tragically, vast parts of their already kinda splintered movement misunderstood what exactly the term "whiteness" stands for in this context.

So did everyone else apparently.

And theres also this general angst from our generation because we're at that age where we're realizing theres not really a big chance of us reaching the kind of luxuries our parents had, those which we were also promised as kids. That anger has to go somewhere. I suppose for many "nerds" the Sarkessians and nu-progressives of the world are as big a target as any, in part because they thrive off making themselves exactly that on purpose.

PsychedelicDiamond:
And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold? Why in a group and during a cause that should, logically speaking, rather have been critical of capitalism than progressivism? I think if we can explain that we'd get a lot of insight into how neofascist subversion works.

Why was gaming a liberal stronghold? Now, sure, it was something that used to get bullied by the cool kids, but that doesn't make it progressive. Now that it's gone mainstream, they can bully the uncool kids themselves.

Also, you'll see little logic in one group persecuting another.

Thaluikhain:

PsychedelicDiamond:
And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold? Why in a group and during a cause that should, logically speaking, rather have been critical of capitalism than progressivism? I think if we can explain that we'd get a lot of insight into how neofascist subversion works.

Why was gaming a liberal stronghold? Now, sure, it was something that used to get bullied by the cool kids, but that doesn't make it progressive. Now that it's gone mainstream, they can bully the uncool kids themselves.

Also, you'll see little logic in one group persecuting another.

Also, let's be frank. Quite a few gamers like to perpetuate the idea of gamers being victimized outcasts. Despite this, the gaming community is viciously, and I mean viciously, excluding, judgemental and elitist. The hatred towards casual gamers, the hatred towards mobile gamers, PC vs console, consoles vs other consoles, the panic about fake gamer girls with people thinking that women were faking being gamers to woo geeks (and since a lot of geeks thought they were spurred by women when they were younger, this is a pretty fucking arrogant thing to assume) the general hatred towards people who get into a series later, the list goes on.

Gaming is a hobby, a hobby that a lot of people got into. And a lot of people out there are shit heads who think their self viewed victimhood means they're always in the right.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
It's not subversion though, it's reactionary. This always amused me because the answer is RIGHT THERE but people refuse to see it.

There was a really good post about fandoms and "progressives" on DakkaDakka since there's a bit if discussion about female representation in Warhammer 40k. This was part of a several page long argument between the poster and other people, I just took the first most relevant part I found.

But a word of advice: Shotgun-blasting an entire community and telling them how they're full of racists and sexists? Yeah, good luck getting your voice heard. You wanna roll up into a hobby I enjoy, without knowing me or my thoughts, and label me some sort of bigot? Or even better- a 'Basement dwelling neckbeard virgin'- you know, like the sort of thing an outsider would say that doesn't know anything about the hobby or the actual people in it? Yeah, you're gonna get hostility.

More perspective: I go into a pub for the first time. "Wow, all this baseball stuff is so awesome. But you know, it'd be better if this were also a basketball theme!" People are going to look at me like "Who the hell are you?" And if all I do is complain about the people there- you're damned right I'm gonna feel unwelcome after a bit. I SHOULD.

I don't want 'more women' in gaming- I want more gamers in gaming. I don't care if they're women, men, black, or white. I want them to be here because what we have is awesome to them, and they want to have fun. I'm not in the business of specifically recruiting demographics. Literally no one is unwelcome at any of my tables, unless you're a troublemaker or drama-queen (or you put ranch on pizza).

When you attack a community, the community will fight back. In this case when approach a prodominantly white male group and yell horrible things at them why are you surprised that they'll move away from you and towards the people who DON'T yell horrible things at them?

Now while I don't disagree that what you give is what you get (in terms of how you present information), I don't think entirely that's it.

I grew up a minority in the geek culture. Back in the 80's where it was a death sentence to be considered a geek. And simply baffling to be a minority geek. Not only was I rejected by regular culture, but I had to prove myself to other geeks that I was one of them. Most of the time, I wasn't even fully accepted by others.

Even back then, the predominantly white male group didn't have time for anything that wasn't them. They yelled horrible things at us, supposed members of the same culture. The women geeks shouldn't care about how the women in the media we coveted was portrayed. That "not everything is a black thing" when blacks wanted to also be represented. When female or minorities had any limelight, they pushed back for trying to be PC and pandering to a base... without realizing that females and minorities have been working in the comic book, video game, book writing medium for decades, forced to tell stories about white people to Predominantly White Males because editors and producers were convinced that Predominantly White Males didn't have time for anything that didn't look like them.

And lookie here, they were right.

It brings about a point that I feel not enough people talk about: How Predominantly White Males are allowed to act however they want, in their minds. They can wrap their entire arms around geek culture and yell "MINE AND YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY" to women and minority geeks for decades. But when those women and minority geeks have been in the medium for decades, or grow up and want to write their own stories... Predominantly White Males wrap their arms around it harder and yell "MINE, AND YOU SHOULDN'T BE HERE UNLESS YOU GIVE ME MORE OF WHAT I'M COMFORTABLE WITH". Then when people get tired of it and call them out, they feel like no one has been as persecuted as they have so they decide to join militias?

Really? Is that the route we're going down?

Would we consider it an overreaction if some black geeks who were yelled at by white geeks saying that "there's no need for diversity", "not everything has to be PC", and "an equally black powerful character to say 'Superman' is just pandering" decided Fuck This, I'm joining the Black Panthers*?

*A joke I didn't mean to make, but hey, those tickets are selling out.

Thaluikhain:

PsychedelicDiamond:
And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold? Why in a group and during a cause that should, logically speaking, rather have been critical of capitalism than progressivism? I think if we can explain that we'd get a lot of insight into how neofascist subversion works.

Why was gaming a liberal stronghold? Now, sure, it was something that used to get bullied by the cool kids, but that doesn't make it progressive. Now that it's gone mainstream, they can bully the uncool kids themselves.

Also, you'll see little logic in one group persecuting another.

I think the lesson here is that "liberal" doesn't equal progressive or leftist.

The ancient grognards I grew up with were very much "Star Trek is great because people don't need money" types, but female membership in the club was pathetically low for a good goddamned reason and a good chunk of them turned birther around 2008.

This isn't a coincidence, looking back.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Interesting you should bring that up because i always did wonder how that happened.

You did wonder how a hobby in which sophisticated social interaction usually taking second place to shouting various slurs across the internet at anonymous strangers turned out to be fairly susceptible to radicalisation? A hobby which has historically been the resort of the less popular kids, the ones with the chips on their shoulders?

Catnip1024:

PsychedelicDiamond:
Interesting you should bring that up because i always did wonder how that happened.

You did wonder how a hobby in which sophisticated social interaction usually taking second place to shouting various slurs across the internet at anonymous strangers turned out to be fairly susceptible to radicalisation? A hobby which has historically been the resort of the less popular kids, the ones with the chips on their shoulders?

The Playstation was released almost 25 years ago, dungeons and dragons was so popular it got a TV show, and nerd shit in general has literally never been more popular.

Maybe the less popular kids with chips on their shoulders perceive themselves to be the hobby, lord knows I did, but it's not true. Probably never was.

altnameJag:
The Playstation was released almost 25 years ago, dungeons and dragons was so popular it got a TV show, and nerd shit in general has literally never been more popular.

Maybe the less popular kids with chips on their shoulders perceive themselves to be the hobby, lord knows I did, but it's not true. Probably never was.

Yes, but we aren't talking about the hobby as a whole. We're talking about a particular subset of the people within it. And they still exist, albeit in a smaller proportion of the overall.

PsychedelicDiamond:
And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold?

"Geek culture" / gaming was never a liberal stronghold.

It is a counterculture, and it will turn it's ire on whatever part of the mainstream that it feels interferes with its own interests. It's just that in times past, that was more conservatism than it was progressivism. My perception of a lot of these people is they are people who were frequently ostracised by mainstream society and potentially bullied, and as Catnip1024 says, this has given them chips on their shoulders. Inasmuch as they seem liberal, it is not so much a deep political instinct as a desire for outsiders to not interfere in the little societal niche they carved out for themselves.

erttheking:

Thaluikhain:

PsychedelicDiamond:
And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold? Why in a group and during a cause that should, logically speaking, rather have been critical of capitalism than progressivism? I think if we can explain that we'd get a lot of insight into how neofascist subversion works.

Why was gaming a liberal stronghold? Now, sure, it was something that used to get bullied by the cool kids, but that doesn't make it progressive. Now that it's gone mainstream, they can bully the uncool kids themselves.

Also, you'll see little logic in one group persecuting another.

Also, let's be frank. Quite a few gamers like to perpetuate the idea of gamers being victimized outcasts. Despite this, the gaming community is viciously, and I mean viciously, excluding, judgemental and elitist. The hatred towards casual gamers, the hatred towards mobile gamers, PC vs console, consoles vs other consoles, the panic about fake gamer girls with people thinking that women were faking being gamers to woo geeks (and since a lot of geeks thought they were spurred by women when they were younger, this is a pretty fucking arrogant thing to assume) the general hatred towards people who get into a series later, the list goes on.

Gaming is a hobby, a hobby that a lot of people got into. And a lot of people out there are shit heads who think their self viewed victimhood means they're always in the right.

Literally every hobby is like that. My wife loves the japanese Lolita fashion and it's a community of maybe 10,000 outside of Japan and it's the most catty, elitist group of people I've ever seen. You can be driven out of the community for not wearing the right brand of dress, because you post to your blog too much, because your wig is cheap, because you're slightly to big to be wearing a certain brand, because you bought a second hand dress from the wrong person the list is endless.

When I was more of an anime nerd in Britain and the community was still fairly small there was like two forums total for the whole community. One forum viewed itself as just plain "better" than the other and the other were turbo-nerds. Even within that there was another clique that viewed themselves as "cooler" than the regular users, even going so far as to have a seperate cool kids only IRC channel.

As to your other post like it or not, that's why the right wing has picked up the steam it has amongst young white men. That post you wrote in reply is actually a pretty good example because it has a fairly strong amount of hostility behind it when all I was doing was presenting an answer to a question. I was even about to argue it then thought the better of it because I realised you're not arguing with me you're arguing at me. I never said they were justified in moving to the right, just offering an explantion as to why things are going the way they are.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Snip

People being shit heads being a wide spread phenomenon does not excuse when people do it. One my my friends is into Lolita fashion too, and from what I've seen, she's managed to avoid being an excluding, stuck up brat about it. As someone who has been gaming his entire life and has dipped into pretty much all types of gaming with the exception of VR, this holier than thou crap seriously needs to either get lost or gamers need to turn in their victim card.

I fully admit a lot of my frustration with these people was coming out there, mainly because I seriously have zero sympathy for people who bitch about professional victimhood before acting like the biggest professional victims I've ever seen while also enjoying the presence of people who harbor Nazis to double down on hypocrisy. I do apologize for that.

At the same time though, what cat says right below me.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
snip

So, yeah, that post is kind of a textbook example of why I (and I suspect a lot of us) think that "geek culture" is a problem.

I got into Games Workshop stuff when I was.. well.. must have been about 10. It was a big part of my childhood. I was probably part of one of the first generations of obnoxious kids to hang around in Games Workshop stores. Part of why I no longer play anything but specialist games (although by no means the whole, god knows there's a lot wrong generally with GW) is that I just stopped feeling welcome in those kinds of spaces.

And I'm not alone. I've met dozens and dozens of people like me, people who used to be really passionate about video games, or comics, or CCGs or whatever, who used to be part of the "community" and who left because some other part of their "identity" kicked in and suddenly they found themselves on the outside because they weren't "pure" enough any more.

This whole "culture war" thing is framed as an issue of "gamers" vs. "SJWs" or whatever, but the obvious, obvious reality is that it's two halves of the same community, at least if you define community as people who consume the same media and who, for the most part, grew up consuming the same media. That's why you'll find massive threads on female representation in 40k, but generally absolutely nothing on the fast and the furious films (which are vastly, vastly more questionable in terms of politics) because "SJWs" don't care about action movies aimed at teenage boys, they don't consume them and don't want to. They consume 40k though, or they want to consume 40k, because at the end of the day they're still gamers.

Actually, the things I'm most disillusioned about with current popular social justice discourse stem from the fact that it basically is just geek culture. There's an intense focus on certain types of media consumption, there's gatekeeping, there's a reliance on knowledge or trivia as a way of demonstrating or asserting superiority, there's a need for ideological purity and the display of perfect politics. These aren't things "SJWs" inflicted on geek culture, they are a basic and fundamental part of all forms of it and they're a big part of why the dichotomy between these two frankly imaginary types of people exists in the first place.

But ultimately, because of the experiences I've had and the background I have, I also feel the sense of injury here. Like, you can say "no one is unwelcome at any of my tables", but in a broader sense as long as you're assuming ownership of the tables, as long as being able to decide who is and isn't welcome (who is and isn't part of "the community") is predicated on being a certain kind of person, then some of us are going to get that we're not welcome. Tolerating visitors provided they stick to the rules you set for them isn't particularly welcoming. This isn't yours. This cultural space isn't yours. These games aren't yours. Noone should have to ask permission to use them.

erttheking:

Also, let's be frank. Quite a few gamers like to perpetuate the idea of gamers being victimized outcasts. Despite this, the gaming community is viciously, and I mean viciously, excluding, judgemental and elitist. The hatred towards casual gamers, the hatred towards mobile gamers, PC vs console, consoles vs other consoles, the panic about fake gamer girls with people thinking that women were faking being gamers to woo geeks (and since a lot of geeks thought they were spurred by women when they were younger, this is a pretty fucking arrogant thing to assume) the general hatred towards people who get into a series later, the list goes on.

There's a lot of truth to this.

I think people who were at the bottom of the pecking order in the mainstream and got bullied often don't learn that bullying and lording high status over others is a bad thing. They learn that they want to be guys at the top doing the bullying. So it is when they find their subculture, they set about recreating the power dynamic in the mainstream... except now in this smaller pond, they're the big fishes.

evilthecat:
Like, to second a bunch of people, this kind of stuff isn't so scary to me. It's the tip of the iceberg.

I think what scares me far more is the cooption of quote/unquote "geek culture" into a right wing media pipeline, and the increasing mobility between libetarianism -> civic nationalism -> white nationalism. I mean, sure, that's going to lead to a few messed up kids who murder people, but that's kind of normal in America. I think what's more scary is that we might end up with a generation of white men with overt white nationalist sympathies, that there might be a prolonged cultural movement backwards into a prolonged period of reactionary racism, sexism and homophobia and that we might genuinely lose a lot of the cultural gains made in the past few decades.

Sure, it's not as apocalyptic as people bombing a nuclear power plant (which isn't going to do much anyway unless you know what you're doing) but the damage will be real and far greater in the long term.

Well, I guess it's time to muster up the resolve to post something again for everyone to deliberately misconstrue as "Pro-Nazi" cheerleading. It's so much fun that even once a week is too much these days.

It's amazing to me how with all the talk of "backlashes" and "reaction", it never seems to occur to people to examine the initial lash and the action being reacted to while tackling the mystery of where this allegedly rampant "White Nationalism" is coming from. Like, how about that increasing mobility between liberalism -> left populism -> totalitarian ethocommunism? "Gee, we've spent so many years inculcating Muh Racial Hierarchy as the only socially acceptable worldview... so how come these kids have accepted the underlying principle?" You set up the game, don't be surprised if people will play.

There is a way out of this spiral, which is to stop spiralling. Could we maybe consider that for just a moment?

Agema:

erttheking:

Also, let's be frank. Quite a few gamers like to perpetuate the idea of gamers being victimized outcasts. Despite this, the gaming community is viciously, and I mean viciously, excluding, judgemental and elitist. The hatred towards casual gamers, the hatred towards mobile gamers, PC vs console, consoles vs other consoles, the panic about fake gamer girls with people thinking that women were faking being gamers to woo geeks (and since a lot of geeks thought they were spurred by women when they were younger, this is a pretty fucking arrogant thing to assume) the general hatred towards people who get into a series later, the list goes on.

There's a lot of truth to this.

I think people who were at the bottom of the pecking order in the mainstream and got bullied often don't learn that bullying and lording high status over others is a bad thing. They learn that they want to be guys at the top doing the bullying. So it is when they find their subculture, they set about recreating the power dynamic in the mainstream... except now in this smaller pond, they're the big fishes.

I'm not sure how true this is. The same is seen in groups that aren't and weren't persecuted, they can still claim they are/were. As gamers, they can say they were bullied once upon a time, if they happen to be white straight men, they can pretend to be oppressed because of that. Not seeing a big difference between the two.

Agema:

PsychedelicDiamond:
And this makes me wonder: Why gaming culture, of all things? Why a traditionally liberal stronghold?

"Geek culture" / gaming was never a liberal stronghold.

It is a counterculture, and it will turn it's ire on whatever part of the mainstream that it feels interferes with its own interests. It's just that in times past, that was more conservatism than it was progressivism. My perception of a lot of these people is they are people who were frequently ostracised by mainstream society and potentially bullied, and as Catnip1024 says, this has given them chips on their shoulders. Inasmuch as they seem liberal, it is not so much a deep political instinct as a desire for outsiders to not interfere in the little societal niche they carved out for themselves.

This. This this this.

As gamers and geeks, a lot of us were bullied or had overbearing conservative parents/teachers/etc and we rebelled. It's always been a refuge from "whatever we perceive as bothering us".

And since gaming cuts across all politics nowadays, and identity politics is growing strong, and how it sometimes goes "Minorities/other groups need more representation in gaming", a lot of gamers are going to feel like it's an attack against that refuge, causing backlash against more progressive ideas. :s

Gaming is primarily that bunker that a lot of people hide in when they don't like what's happening around them, and we often get viciously angry when our virtual safe-space is threatened.

---

As for these Atom-Waffle twats, the solution is obvious.

Someone just has to go up to Trump and go "Mister President, this gang wants to blow up a nuclear power plant, and overthrow the government. They want to overthrow...YOU"

There'd be a lot more funding for neo-nazi counter-terrorism agents after that, I'm fairly certain.

StatusNil:

It's amazing to me how with all the talk of "backlashes" and "reaction", it never seems to occur to people to examine the initial lash and the action being reacted to...

Well, depends what we mean by the original lash.

Modern progressivism didn't materialise out of nowhere, it was caused - principally I would suppose - by persistent failure of technical and legal equality to significantly narrow the gap in outcomes. And I've no idea how old you are, but I remember the 1980s where racism, sexism and homophobia were a lot more prevalent than today, so it's hardly like it was all fairness, peace, love and tolerance the minute the civil rights movement got legislation passed in the late 60s.

And indeed we can go back, and back, and back if we really want.

StatusNil:
while tackling the mystery of where this allegedly rampant "White Nationalism" is coming from.

When did it ever go away? I mean, it will have struggled to get media traction in the pre-internet days because most controlled mass media wouldn't touch it, but let's not pretend a significant chunk of people ever stopped thinking it.

StatusNil:

evilthecat:
Like, to second a bunch of people, this kind of stuff isn't so scary to me. It's the tip of the iceberg.

I think what scares me far more is the cooption of quote/unquote "geek culture" into a right wing media pipeline, and the increasing mobility between libetarianism -> civic nationalism -> white nationalism. I mean, sure, that's going to lead to a few messed up kids who murder people, but that's kind of normal in America. I think what's more scary is that we might end up with a generation of white men with overt white nationalist sympathies, that there might be a prolonged cultural movement backwards into a prolonged period of reactionary racism, sexism and homophobia and that we might genuinely lose a lot of the cultural gains made in the past few decades.

Sure, it's not as apocalyptic as people bombing a nuclear power plant (which isn't going to do much anyway unless you know what you're doing) but the damage will be real and far greater in the long term.

Well, I guess it's time to muster up the resolve to post something again for everyone to deliberately misconstrue as "Pro-Nazi" cheerleading. It's so much fun that even once a week is too much these days.

It's amazing to me how with all the talk of "backlashes" and "reaction", it never seems to occur to people to examine the initial lash and the action being reacted to while tackling the mystery of where this allegedly rampant "White Nationalism" is coming from. Like, how about that increasing mobility between liberalism -> left populism -> totalitarian ethocommunism? "Gee, we've spent so many years inculcating Muh Racial Hierarchy as the only socially acceptable worldview... so how come these kids have accepted the underlying principle?" You set up the game, don't be surprised if people will play.

There is a way out of this spiral, which is to stop spiralling. Could we maybe consider that for just a moment?

And how would we do that, exactly? What point in the "women and minorities have it worse" should we "stop spiraling". And why is this "our" responsibility in the first place? Why am I in charge of protecting other people's feelings? How much racial and sexual discrimination are we supposed to accept?

Because right now, the reactionary bit of gamer culture is fine with using outright fabrications to get mad at. (No, games journalism wasn't attacking Cuphead, despite what youtube would tell you) This is somehow my fault, and makes me "not a real gamer" when I try to point that out, and yet I'm not allowed to be the slightest bit testy when some upstart youngster tells me I'm an invader in a hobby I've been participating in since before they were born.

So how come I, and people like me, are responsible for this right-wing surge, but people on the right-wing aren't responsible for my left-wing shift? How come this shit only ever gets to flow one way?

StatusNil:
It's amazing to me how with all the talk of "backlashes" and "reaction", it never seems to occur to people to examine the initial lash and the action being reacted to while tackling the mystery of where this allegedly rampant "White Nationalism" is coming from. Like, how about that increasing mobility between liberalism -> left populism -> totalitarian ethocommunism? "Gee, we've spent so many years inculcating Muh Racial Hierarchy as the only socially acceptable worldview... so how come these kids have accepted the underlying principle?" You set up the game, don't be surprised if people will play.

It's just too bad "totalitarian ethocommunism" isn't a real thing. From what little I can discover about the concept, it seems like a bizarre form of horseshoe theory attempting to misrepresent white nationalism as "left wing" because some white nationalists have a collectivist view of society (as opposed to the more obvious reason that some of them are literal fascists).

White nationalism exists. People identify with it and espouse it as a political philosophy. More disturbingly though, people who don't identify with it but who identify with libetarianism or civic nationalism often seem to end up saying very similar things to the things white nationalists end up saying, because at the end of the day white nationalism (and any form of ethnic nationalism) is a compelling view of the world. It's compelling to believe that the world is divided into big ethnic blocks of people who can be judged and written off according to what they look like or where their ancestors came from.

Ultimately, that's why I can think of this as a pipeline, because each step is logical. It internally makes sense from the point of view of a person who has already taken the previous step. If you believe that "SJWs" are ruining gaming, then you may as well believe that feminism in general is a bad thing. If you believe that feminism in general is a bad thing, then you need some model of a "pure" Western culture before feminism. If you idolize some model of a pure, pre-feminist, pre-social-justice western culture, then that culture will appear to be under attack. Who do you blame? Well, you could blame women and black people, or you could blame "cucked" white men, but it's difficult because these people are inferior, your whole thesis at this point is that these people are stupider and weaker than you. What about Jews though?

The last one is extreme, and from what we can tell few make the jump (although it's pretty obvious over on youtube that some do) but ultimately these things are part of a coherent worldview, and once you buy into one of the operating assumptions of the far right, or of white nationalism, the others tend to fall into place because they make sense of the first. It's an easy, convenient worldview which robs the world of any complexity, there are goodies and baddies (and goodies who have been corrupted by the baddies), and you can tell them all apart immediately.

I left thread for a couple ways, come back to read the latest posts, and the only thing I can think is: how the heck did this went from discussing Neo-Nazi terrorist groups to GamerGate? Did someone in GG join the Atomwaffen or something?

altnameJag:
So how come I, and people like me, are responsible for this right-wing surge, but people on the right-wing aren't responsible for my left-wing shift? How come this shit only ever gets to flow one way?

This is a point that I've been trying to stress for what feels like decades.

As a non-white gamer geek, I live in a weird half vacuum. I'm allowed to be upset and discouraged when I see someone who's a non martial artist to play Iron Fist, the premier human martial artist in Marvel. People will join me and fight because it's an outrage. If I speak out about how the Last Airbender movie should have had an asian cast, people will get on my case that even though each city has an asian name, Sokka and Katara are clearly from an Inuit based tribe, and well, the freaking landscape... people will say "It's not specifically stated to be based on Asia!!" to quiet talks about racial inequity.

But then will throw a fit about PC for Johnny Storm and Heimdall.

Now, like I said before, if I threw a fit and started to look at BLM or other groups that support non-majority voices, they would probably just claim that it's apart of the SJW movement that's swallowing up more and more people. I doubt they would realize that their yelling and rhetoric are creating as much need to be heard as their efforts to block out others so THEY are the only ones heard.

Geek culture have this complete detachment from reality. Only WE are allowed to be upset. Only we. And in us, you are only allowed to be upset about what we consider to be the mainstream thought. And that happens to fall in line with the Predominantly White Male considers worth spending time on. The cognitive dissonance one must have to be upset that they might become underrepresented someday in the medium that they love, which leads them in vicious efforts to deny their fellow culture members some representation is mind boggling and should be studied.

CaitSeith:
I left thread for a couple ways, come back to read the latest posts, and the only thing I can think is: how the heck did this went from discussing Neo-Nazi terrorist groups to GamerGate? Did someone in GG join the Atomwaffen or something?

There's a good reason for that.

The supposed small group of only 80 has a Youtube Red Gaming group nearing 2000 members.

1,936 subscribers
Joined Feb 17, 2017
About
This is the official youtube page of the Atomwaffen Division - Revolutionary National Socialist Organization

So, again. To others who "just" said it's 80 people... do you honestly think people joined their gaming group because they just have really funny let's plays or they have the best speedrunning records ever? Or do they follow it for other reasons?

ObsidianJones:

1,936 subscribers
Joined Feb 17, 2017
About
This is the official youtube page of the Atomwaffen Division - Revolutionary National Socialist Organization

So, again. To others who "just" said it's 80 people... do you honestly think people joined their gaming group because they just have really funny let's plays or they have the best speedrunning records ever? Or do they follow it for other reasons?

See, now the argument is "it's just a bunch of kids with a fucking Let's Play account, they won't find time to fit in terrorism around their uploading".

I don't know what sort of videos they have, I have no intention of checking, but c'mon. What next, go for the LoL World Championships to increase brand awareness? I mean, it would stand out to have a team up there with snazzy SS uniforms, and it'd probably go down a treat in Korea, but still...

Again, not undermining arguments against terrorism in general, but this group? Meh...

Agema:

erttheking:

Also, let's be frank. Quite a few gamers like to perpetuate the idea of gamers being victimized outcasts. Despite this, the gaming community is viciously, and I mean viciously, excluding, judgemental and elitist. The hatred towards casual gamers, the hatred towards mobile gamers, PC vs console, consoles vs other consoles, the panic about fake gamer girls with people thinking that women were faking being gamers to woo geeks (and since a lot of geeks thought they were spurred by women when they were younger, this is a pretty fucking arrogant thing to assume) the general hatred towards people who get into a series later, the list goes on.

There's a lot of truth to this.

I think people who were at the bottom of the pecking order in the mainstream and got bullied often don't learn that bullying and lording high status over others is a bad thing. They learn that they want to be guys at the top doing the bullying. So it is when they find their subculture, they set about recreating the power dynamic in the mainstream... except now in this smaller pond, they're the big fishes.

To add to this. People who are bullied and people who bully tend to overlap. There could be various reasons for this. One is a shitty culture at whatever school, club or workplace they were in which encouraged such behaviour. Another might be that they were bullied because they were disliked and that was not entirely without reason. Another again might be that their bullying started as a self-defense mechanism. Contrary to certain romantic beliefs, people generally don't become better people through hardship.

evilthecat:
I think what scares me far more is the cooption of quote/unquote "geek culture" into a right wing media pipeline, and the increasing mobility between libetarianism -> civic nationalism -> white nationalism.

Yeah, about that. Libertarians seem to have gotten less sympathetic over the years. (though to be fair, I have moved a lot to the left over those years so maybe its me) I remember when I first saw some of them a decade ago and they seemed mostly like very principled, if rather naive and sometimes callous people who presented themselves as an alternative to both left and right by being both economically and culturally liberal. By now, if I see a libertarian on youtube or some blog I expect to need about twenty seconds of searching before I find a racist or sexist rant.

Pseudonym:

Agema:

erttheking:

Also, let's be frank. Quite a few gamers like to perpetuate the idea of gamers being victimized outcasts. Despite this, the gaming community is viciously, and I mean viciously, excluding, judgemental and elitist. The hatred towards casual gamers, the hatred towards mobile gamers, PC vs console, consoles vs other consoles, the panic about fake gamer girls with people thinking that women were faking being gamers to woo geeks (and since a lot of geeks thought they were spurred by women when they were younger, this is a pretty fucking arrogant thing to assume) the general hatred towards people who get into a series later, the list goes on.

There's a lot of truth to this.

I think people who were at the bottom of the pecking order in the mainstream and got bullied often don't learn that bullying and lording high status over others is a bad thing. They learn that they want to be guys at the top doing the bullying. So it is when they find their subculture, they set about recreating the power dynamic in the mainstream... except now in this smaller pond, they're the big fishes.

To add to this. People who are bullied and people who bully tend to overlap. There could be various reasons for this. One is a shitty culture at whatever school, club or workplace they were in which encouraged such behaviour. Another might be that they were bullied because they were disliked and that was not entirely without reason. Another again might be that their bullying started as a self-defense mechanism. Contrary to certain romantic beliefs, people generally don't become better people through hardship.

I'd like to remind everyone that all these points about how prior victimization(real or imagined) can lead to or at least be used to internally justify some really shitty attitudes and behaviors don't exclusively apply to the "gamer" side of this discussion

Silent Protagonist:

I'd like to remind everyone that all these points about how prior victimization(real or imagined) can lead to or at least be used to internally justify some really shitty attitudes and behaviors don't exclusively apply to the "gamer" side of this discussion

That seems like a cop-out to me.

Frankly I don't call anybody who doesn't also play board games and P&P RPGs a 'gamer'. More often than not it seems like 'gamer' is being occupied by people who seem artificially attached to a sanitized idea of 'gaming' that isn't even historically accurate as to gaming in its totality. I call them 'videogamers' ... not 'gamers' ... and I can definitely tell which group of people I havehad the biggest problems with if only because one group of them aren'[t expected at all to maintain a basic social contract that is required when you get a group together to play some games.

I'll give you a hint, it's the type of people that decry 'tokenism' at any portrayal of any other group of people regardless of how little or much it is present in the medium.

I can count on no hands the number of people that I have heard complain about a genderqueer Anarch ID in Android: Netrunner, yet I can bet dollars to donuts people by the same criterion they use here would be decrying it as 'tokenism' or some other idiotic argument.

To give another example ... WotC brought out a transgender hero character for MtG... and the biggest gripes I heard about it lived and died on the internet, this website as an example no less. I didn't hear about or care beyond learning of it here, because I haven't played Magic in like almost a decade and a half... But I never once heard of people griping in my LGS ... but hey, once more some randos on the internet once again trotting out the same 'tokenism'esque arguments because apparently videogamers were expecting a storyline out of a CCG.

Priorities? Basic inclusion and acceptance of people who are different from you? Nah, clearly we need to transform them into Heraclean mythology before it's legit ... which is a more egregious example of tokenism but hey ... consistency of behaviour and standards as to inform activity, pffh! As if that matters ...

Frankly, anybody that pretends 'gamer' is an identity, as opposed to something you just do (given the whole verb correlation of the word 'gaming' and 'game'), is already pretty stupid. I don't run around saying I have a 'tennis identity'. Neither do I call myself a tenniser or tell people I was an amateur tennising star in regionals as a kid. I tell people I like to occasionally play tennis and I have more than a passing familiarity with the sport. It's direct and tells everyone exactly what they might like to hear if they're into tennis as well.

Fun fact, 'gaming' as a term had nothing to do specifically with just playing games. It used to mean gambling. You playing a game of gin rummy? That was 'playing cards' ... you putting chips down to play some blackjack in a casino? Gaming. The reason why casinos and racetracks worldwide adopted 'gaming' is because it has positive connotations in comparison to gambling ... making it sound more fun and less random.

Kind of the same problem I have with the difference between 'biker' and 'rider' ... I use the latter, because it's something I do. As do most of the other motorcyclists I know that ride bikes because they like to ride bikes and treat it as their primary or secondary form of transport depending on where they have to go and other local conditions. The only people I see using 'biker' or 'bikie' are weekend warriors riding two-wheel tractors (AKA 'Hardly Rideables') that they hand polish and don't dare ever let the rain touch their machines ... either that or violent thugs pushing methamphetamine...

Both of which are kind of embarassing to the rest of us when we get lumped in with them. If it makes them happy, do it ... but there's a reason we tend to use the term rider to differentiate the activity of doing something simply because it's pleasurable, and doing something because we do it all the time and not only because it's pleasurable.

Because it's not pleasurable being hit by a freak hailstorm doing 70+ mph in the open on a motorbike...

I don't predicate my existence around an inanimate object, nor do I use descriptors to veil myself as if in bad faith arguments of inauthenticity. By the way people use 'gamer' here, it's almost as if Heidegger and Sartre never lived...

Whenever I hear people in the flesh say they're a 'gamer' I think to myself someone who plays all different types of games and maybe would be interested in this hobby group we've got going in Sydney ... either that or I Just groan ... it depends on how high or low I set my standards on just their relationship to playing games ... I can't use it to inform me at all about what they actually play, what games they like, whether they play well with others in a group and are actually looking for that unique social experiment of finding new players in a room to play directly with and actually test one's wits in something like The Resistance: Avalon.

Being a 'gamer' means fuck all to me. If someone says they're really into board games, then I get excited. If they just call themselves a 'gamer' ... that tells me fuck all.

Which is kind of a problem as a gamer. Some who loves to play tabletop RPGs, board games, videogames, horse racing, and I used to be into amateur motorcycle racing and big into tennis. I play all sorts of games... define your fucking terms. And if you think all of these beyond some nebulous concept of wanting to win at something with pre-established rules of engagement and competition has some common string or archetype, I'm going to ask where?

Everyone and their dog in Australia seems to be into 'gaming' if we take into account gambling at the casino, gambling on sports results or horse racing. But I don't see any of them calling themselves 'gamers' ... I see them calling themselves punters (in specifically Australia, don't know about anywhere else). They do so for a reason, as to 'take a punt' is slang for anybody willing to attempt something from a place of high uncertainty, or to make high risk-reward financial bargains on the marketplace, or in terms of a wager made as to a desired outcome.

Anybody that calls themselves a 'gamer' unironically, I often find they're investing in an image utterly devoid from other people's collective consciousness of what it means to compete against something.

Nouns should be descriptive.

Pseudonym:

To add to this. People who are bullied and people who bully tend to overlap. There could be various reasons for this. One is a shitty culture at whatever school, club or workplace they were in which encouraged such behaviour. Another might be that they were bullied because they were disliked and that was not entirely without reason. Another again might be that their bullying started as a self-defense mechanism. Contrary to certain romantic beliefs, people generally don't become better people through hardship.

Conventionally, bullying is often associated with insecurity: people who feel vulnerable trying to push others down in an attempt to reinforce their own feelings of self-worth or perceived status. Sometimes, however, it's likely to be just general malice.

Often, bullies have at least reasonable-high status. Thus even if despised, their high status may often still lead to a perception that that is the correct way to behave. So it is that some of the bullied will model themselves on bullies, and find themselves weaker targets. To some extent, it's also that bullying makes people frustrated, angry and miserable, and so taking that out on weaker people might make them feel better.

I might anecdotally notice in support of the above that the worst bullies I recall from school were either the most troubled / troublesome kids, or the sort of low-mid pecking order who wanted to be in with the cool set.

Silent Protagonist:

Pseudonym:

Agema:

There's a lot of truth to this.

I think people who were at the bottom of the pecking order in the mainstream and got bullied often don't learn that bullying and lording high status over others is a bad thing. They learn that they want to be guys at the top doing the bullying. So it is when they find their subculture, they set about recreating the power dynamic in the mainstream... except now in this smaller pond, they're the big fishes.

To add to this. People who are bullied and people who bully tend to overlap. There could be various reasons for this. One is a shitty culture at whatever school, club or workplace they were in which encouraged such behaviour. Another might be that they were bullied because they were disliked and that was not entirely without reason. Another again might be that their bullying started as a self-defense mechanism. Contrary to certain romantic beliefs, people generally don't become better people through hardship.

I'd like to remind everyone that all these points about how prior victimization(real or imagined) can lead to or at least be used to internally justify some really shitty attitudes and behaviors don't exclusively apply to the "gamer" side of this discussion

Does the fact that it doesn't exclusively apply to gamers mean that we can't talk about how it applies to gamers specifically on a gaming website? Not to be too condescending, but your post is really just a "no shit, Sherlock" moment. Where in the discussion did anyone say that this phenom only applies to gamers? Is this another case where we have to preface everything with #NotAll and #NotOnly to avoid triggering gamers (who as I said in a thread over in Gaming Discussion, truly do need a "Fragile: Handle with Care" sticker slapped on the collective group)?

Also, see Addendum's point.

Catnip1024:

ObsidianJones:

1,936 subscribers
Joined Feb 17, 2017
About
This is the official youtube page of the Atomwaffen Division - Revolutionary National Socialist Organization

So, again. To others who "just" said it's 80 people... do you honestly think people joined their gaming group because they just have really funny let's plays or they have the best speedrunning records ever? Or do they follow it for other reasons?

See, now the argument is "it's just a bunch of kids with a fucking Let's Play account, they won't find time to fit in terrorism around their uploading".

I don't know what sort of videos they have, I have no intention of checking, but c'mon. What next, go for the LoL World Championships to increase brand awareness? I mean, it would stand out to have a team up there with snazzy SS uniforms, and it'd probably go down a treat in Korea, but still...

Again, not undermining arguments against terrorism in general, but this group? Meh...

It isn't an uncommon practice for some YouTubers to attract audience with normal videos and start to spew toxic rhetoric while they play (the audience come for the games, and his followers stay for the personality). Edginess has a market.

CaitSeith:
It isn't an uncommon practice for some YouTubers to attract audience with normal videos and start to spew toxic rhetoric while they play (the audience come for the games, and his followers stay for the personality). Edginess has a market.

In which case:
a) how are these any different from your regular arsehole "edgy" Youtuber?
b) how are the people watching going to take them seriously when they assume they are just regular controversial pricks?

I did possibly overly make light of the situation above, but I don't see how, in this day and age, people can expect to recruit via something like Youtube and get away with it for long enough to get a message out before being banned / removed. Of those 2000 people, chances are sooner or later one is going to get disturbed enough to press report.

For scientific research I shall now watch the Atomwaffen video titled "Doomsday Hatecamp 2017: M I D W E S T" and share my thoughts.

Going in I'm hoping for some cool STALKER-y antics with gasmasks and comfy campfires by the title of the video. The group is described as a "cell" so I expect a fair number of terrifying, highly trained militiamen.

0:00-0:13 - About 6 to 8 lanky lads hiking through the woods with spooky music playing. Some are wearing camo gear. I'm immediatly disappointed.

0:14-0:19 - A campfire with a grill. The music is giving vauge STALKER vibes so thats something I suppose.

0:20-0:54 - More hiking. At 0:31 there was a badly framed scenic shot followed by more hiking, all the men have skull masks covering the lower half of their face. One man is not wearing his camo jacket and looks suitably ashamed. Music persists. It occurs to me no one has any camping equipment making me think this all takes place like 5 minutes walk from someones cabin or something.

0:55-1:27 - Someone is trying to light something on fire. A pamphlet of some kind? He gives up and angrily throws it onto the aforementioned campfire but it lands on the grill. Someone sheepishly pokes it onto the fire with their shoe. This is followed by still shots of a burning American flag. Music keeps repeating the same two notes.

1:28-1:57 - A soviet flag is tied around a tree and the men one-by-one walk up to it and do...something. It's hard to tell because the only light source is a torch aimed above the flag. Initially it looked like they were punching it, then like they were pulling things out of it. The music has changed from spooky synth to passive aggressive electro drums. Upon rewatching I think they've stabbed the flag to a tree and are pulling the knives out. One man does a stylish little twirl as he does so.

1:58-2:12 - Someone drags the Soviet flag to the bonfire and has some trouble setting it alight. Once it catches fire he drops the flag on the fire and half-heartedly gives it the middle finger.

2:13-2:29 - More hiking. My previous theory about guns seems to be false given that any weapons are absent on the 6 or or so people there. At 2:28 an air raid siren joins the passive aggressive druming.

2:30-2:47 - The assembled men hold a toast around a campfire. By which I mean they hold bottles of beer in the air around a camp fire. Two men get bored part way through the toast and drink anyway. The toast isn't spoken but the text on the screen reads

For the martyrs now and the martyrs yet to come! For their blood has stained our flag!

Then they pour their beer on the ground (somewhat hesitantly for some). At this point what can only be described as Transylvanian organ music joins the air raid siren as the drums cut out abruptly.

2:48-3:12 - The six assembled men stand in a circle giving a nazi salute to no one in particular. The fire maybe? One man is clearly not as serious about the whole thing as his saluting arm is bent at the elbow. The organs have gone and the drums move to full on aggressiveness while thebair raid siren persists.

3:13-3:20 The video ends urging me to join my local nazi today. Well Atomwaffles, if I ever want to have a shit camping trip where we all stand around a small campfire wasting beer and not doing a very good job of burning things I shall.

If I'm scared of anything it's that Atomwaffen has taking the concept of camping and made it completly shit. Aside from some lazy saluting nothing particularly strikes me as very nazi-ish so I guess they failed in that regard. It's very clear they're trying their best to look tough though, bless 'em.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
For scientific research I shall now watch the Atomwaffen video titled "Doomsday Hatecamp 2017: M I D W E S T" and share my thoughts.

Going in I'm hoping for some cool STALKER-y antics with gasmasks and comfy campfires by the title of the video. The group is described as a "cell" so I expect a fair number of terrifying, highly trained militiamen.

0:00-0:13 - About 6 to 8 lanky lads hiking through the woods with spooky music playing. Some are wearing camo gear. I'm immediatly disappointed.

0:14-0:19 - A campfire with a grill. The music is giving vauge STALKER vibes so thats something I suppose.

0:20-0:54 - More hiking. At 0:31 there was a badly framed scenic shot followed by more hiking, all the men have skull masks covering the lower half of their face. One man is not wearing his camo jacket and looks suitably ashamed. Music persists. It occurs to me no one has any camping equipment making me think this all takes place like 5 minutes walk from someones cabin or something.

0:55-1:27 - Someone is trying to light something on fire. A pamphlet of some kind? He gives up and angrily throws it onto the aforementioned campfire but it lands on the grill. Someone sheepishly pokes it onto the fire with their shoe. This is followed by still shots of a burning American flag. Music keeps repeating the same two notes.

1:28-1:57 - A soviet flag is tied around a tree and the men one-by-one walk up to it and do...something. It's hard to tell because the only light source is a torch aimed above the flag. Initially it looked like they were punching it, then like they were pulling things out of it. The music has changed from spooky synth to passive aggressive electro drums. Upon rewatching I think they've stabbed the flag to a tree and are pulling the knives out. One man does a stylish little twirl as he does so.

1:58-2:12 - Someone drags the Soviet flag to the bonfire and has some trouble setting it alight. Once it catches fire he drops the flag on the fire and half-heartedly gives it the middle finger.

2:13-2:29 - More hiking. My previous theory about guns seems to be false given that any weapons are absent on the 6 or or so people there. At 2:28 an air raid siren joins the passive aggressive druming.

2:30-2:47 - The assembled men hold a toast around a campfire. By which I mean they hold bottles of beer in the air around a camp fire. Two men get bored part way through the toast and drink anyway. The toast isn't spoken but the text on the screen reads

For the martyrs now and the martyrs yet to come! For their blood has stained our flag!

Then they pour their beer on the ground (somewhat hesitantly for some). At this point what can only be described as Transylvanian organ music joins the air raid siren as the drums cut out abruptly.

2:48-3:12 - The six assembled men stand in a circle giving a nazi salute to no one in particular. The fire maybe? One man is clearly not as serious about the whole thing as his saluting arm is bent at the elbow. The organs have gone and the drums move to full on aggressiveness while thebair raid siren persists.

3:13-3:20 The video ends urging me to join my local nazi today. Well Atomwaffles, if I ever want to have a shit camping trip where we all stand around a small campfire wasting beer and not doing a very good job of burning things I shall.

If I'm scared of anything it's that Atomwaffen has taking the concept of camping and made it completly shit. Aside from some lazy saluting nothing particularly strikes me as very nazi-ish so I guess they failed in that regard. It's very clear they're trying their best to look tough though, bless 'em.

And for as passive and lazy as you've described them, they've still murdered multiple people

I mean, you can make fun of their mediocre camping skills all you want until they drag you out into the woods and kill you

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