Polish people, explain to me about what happened in the country recently.

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Because a few weeks ago I watched this video by one of these "Alt-Righters" regarding basically a National Parade that happened in Poland:

For those who don't want to see the video, the person in the video praises Poland's independence parade for embracing their national identity and such, lambasts the mainstream media for calling this parade a facist/nazi right-winger racist march, and that Poland is one of the few countries in Europe that does not have a single Muslim immigrant/refugee because apperently according to this guy, the Poles know about the "Migrant crisis" going on in all of Europe, and this guy uses Polands history of never having its own independent country for centuries under the yoke of being empires and such and that they don't want to lose that again to these "hostile migrants that don't care about their country and thier culture"

The reason I made this thread is to ask Polish People, or people that knows exactly what was going on in Poland, what really happened here? Was this march inherently done by right-leaning Neo-Nazis/Facists (which is hilarious since Poland went through 2 totalitarian regimes so they should know better) is this guy talking out of his ass? Are there unfortunant implications as to why Poland hosted this national march parade and why they have no Muslim immigrants in thier nation? And was the mainstream media unfair in calling this march Nazi/Facist or there is some truth to their accusations?

I made this thread for the purpose of questioning the video and it statements, not that I agree with this. And I am looking for questions from you guys.

Regarding Polish history:
In 1772, Poland was invaded by Germany, Austria and Russia and taken apart (each country took a part of the Polish land).
There was no Poland and the Polish language was preserved thanks in large part to the Catholic Church.
In 1918, the "secret" Polish government went public after the end of WWI and managed to get some of the old Polish land back.
Sadly, the nation became a dictatorship led by a general named Pilsudski.
In 1939, Germans invaded.
After the end of WWII, the Soviets invaded and only in 1989, after the fall of the USSR, Poland became a democracy.
Yes, Polish democracy and the ability to decide what happens in our own country is a brand new thing to us.
I still remember as a little kid watching all the Soviet institutions in my town being replaced by new Polish equivalents (like the militia being replaced by the police).

Because all of that (and more, the entire Polish history is basically an invading force comes and we fight back), Poles are very xenophobic and don't like immigrants.
Not only that but they do see how Sweden and Germany are suffering because of the wave of refugees and they don't want that in Poland.
There were white nationalists during the march but they were a minority and calling it "Nazi march" is the equivalent of calling one of Ben Shapiro's speaking events a "Nazi gathering" (which also happens).
It might seem a bit overly enthusiastic but Poles are very patriotic (we're talking about US conservative level of patriotism, maybe even higher).
Also, Poles still dislike Germany for obvious reasons so they're not willing to just blindly listen to what Merkel tells them (in fact, I haven't met a single Pole who has a positive opinion of her, especially after she told our president that Poland needs to pay reparations to Germany for all the Germans we kicked out after the end of WWII).

If Poland took refugees and there was even 1 incident as a result, especially one that could be attributed to Islam, there wouldn't be just protests and angry internet comments, some of these refugees would be killed, no joke.

Basically, the majority of Poles, along with the majority of the Polish government, are isolationist.
Poland will not welcome multiculturalism any time soon and any outside plans to make it a multicultural country will be seen as just another invasion.

^ I am well aware of your nation's history and that you guys have been mostly on the reiceving end of history.

Another Polish guy I know referenced a perticular book regarding the country's history and its fittingly titled "God's Playground"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Playground

My parents are very liberal and socialist in their views and even they were unhappy with the way the EU was pushing the refugees on Poland. Their view was that Poland needs to fix its own issues first before taking on the problems of refugees from another continent. The refugee crisis was not created by Poland and should be fixed by the countries responsible. The way Germany was trying to punish Poland for not obeying its orders really pissed them off.

Nielas:
The refugee crisis was not created by Poland and should be fixed by the countries responsible.

Well, yes, it should, but the countries responsible for the repression don't tend to be interested in ameliorating the effects of that repression.

Vanilla ISIS:

Also, Poles still dislike Germany for obvious reasons so they're not willing to just blindly listen to what Merkel tells them (in fact, I haven't met a single Pole who has a positive opinion of her, especially after she told our president that Poland needs to pay reparations to Germany for all the Germans we kicked out after the end of WWII).

Firstly, as far as I am aware Merkel has stated that German government will not support any claims made by German citizens requesting reparations for their expulsion, which seems contrary to what you suggest.

Secondly, what do they have to say about Poland's claim for ~1trillion Euros reparations from Germany for WW2, I wonder?

Samtemdo8:
^ I am well aware of your nation's history and that you guys have been mostly on the reiceving end of history.

The lesson from Poland's history in the 17-18th century is "Make sure your government works". It is a superb model of dysfunction.

Samtemdo8:
Because a few weeks ago I watched this video by one of these "Alt-Righters" regarding basically a National Parade that happened in Poland:

For those who don't want to see the video, the person in the video praises Poland's independence parade for embracing their national identity and such, lambasts the mainstream media for calling this parade a facist/nazi right-winger racist march, and that Poland is one of the few countries in Europe that does not have a single Muslim immigrant/refugee because apperently according to this guy, the Poles know about the "Migrant crisis" going on in all of Europe, and this guy uses Polands history of never having its own independent country for centuries under the yoke of being empires and such and that they don't want to lose that again to these "hostile migrants that don't care about their country and thier culture"

The reason I made this thread is to ask Polish People, or people that knows exactly what was going on in Poland, what really happened here? Was this march inherently done by right-leaning Neo-Nazis/Facists (which is hilarious since Poland went through 2 totalitarian regimes so they should know better) is this guy talking out of his ass? Are there unfortunant implications as to why Poland hosted this national march parade and why they have no Muslim immigrants in thier nation? And was the mainstream media unfair in calling this march Nazi/Facist or there is some truth to their accusations?

I made this thread for the purpose of questioning the video and it statements, not that I agree with this. And I am looking for questions from you guys.

A couple of things:

1. Thank you for summarizing the video. It's really refreshing, makes debating the topic much easier, and (I feel) shows that you're actually interesting in discussing this instead of just talking at people.

2. You're still doing the thing where you find an extremely biased video, (seemingly) take its view as the truth, and then ask people to debunk it. That's not a great way to learn about something.

===========================================================================

OT:

I have my feelings on the topic and enough of an understanding from the sources I've read/seen/heard to back it up, but I don't feel that I have enough to give any type of authoritative view on the details.

Agema:

Firstly, as far as I am aware Merkel has stated that German government will not support any claims made by German citizens requesting reparations for their expulsion, which seems contrary to what you suggest.

Secondly, what do they have to say about Poland's claim for ~1trillion Euros reparations from Germany for WW2, I wonder?

That issue pops up every few years. I remember hearing about it first in like 1987. A right wing German group will start making reparation claims which pisses off the Poles and requires the German government to make assurances that it is not official government policy. In this case the Poles are already pissed off at the German government so it does not help matters.

AFAIK the Polish government signed a treaty giving up all reparation claims against Germany sometime in the 1960s. However, that was a communist government which many Poles do not see as legitimate. My grandparents were never compensated for the horrors they were subjected to during the war but they are dead now so would not benefit from any reparations. It's a tricky situation where you have to decide whether the descendants of the perpetrators owe something to the descendants of the victims. My family would be more happy to get reparations from Russia for what they did to Poland.

Nielas:
AFAIK the Polish government signed a treaty giving up all reparation claims against Germany sometime in the 1960s. However, that was a communist government which many Poles do not see as legitimate. My grandparents were never compensated for the horrors they were subjected to during the war but they are dead now so would not benefit from any reparations. It's a tricky situation where you have to decide whether the descendants of the perpetrators owe something to the descendants of the victims. My family would be more happy to get reparations from Russia for what they did to Poland.

It is even more complicated due to the fact that after the war the victors decided that the Soviets would take out reparations from East Germany (or their occupation zone) and give the appropriate part to the Poles.
Now, the Soviets did take a lot out of their part of Germany. But they did not document very well how much and what. And they did not forward any of that to Ploand. But the Germans feel now that they already did pay the repataions meant for Poland. So that Poland should not only ask Russia about reparations about russian crimes but also direct questions about German reparations there, if at all. Now both won't happen for obvious reasons.

Samtemdo8:
^ I am well aware of your nation's history and that you guys have been mostly on the reiceving end of history.

Not really. That only happens if you start with the later part of the collapse of the pretty vast Polish-Lithuanian realm. Before that, well, it didn't get that size without conquest. And the first reallly big stretches of land it lost it lost due to rebellion of local people against their Polish overlords. As always it is far more complicated.

Nielas:

AFAIK the Polish government signed a treaty giving up all reparation claims against Germany sometime in the 1960s. However, that was a communist government which many Poles do not see as legitimate. My grandparents were never compensated for the horrors they were subjected to during the war but they are dead now so would not benefit from any reparations. It's a tricky situation where you have to decide whether the descendants of the perpetrators owe something to the descendants of the victims. My family would be more happy to get reparations from Russia for what they did to Poland.

Broadly, lots of reparations talk is bullshit - although I mean generally, not just specifically Poland's.

PiS is pushing reparations not because it's ever going to get any, but as a political gimmick to amplify a sense of grievance that feeds their support. PiS is a party that feasts on victim culture: the Germans, the Russians, the EU, Communists... poor little Poland, always the victim. So get outraged and think revenge, and vote for us. Never mind whether it's going to do any good. Okay, it's true that Poland has had it much tougher than a lot of countries over the last few centuries, but at some point you just need to pull your pants on and get on with the here and now rather than stew in the miseries of the past.

I'm fed up enough by those stupid propaganda adverts on YouTube from Poland about its Holocaust Law. Never mind it's a patently illiberal law with the potential to be abused to whitewash elements of Polish collaboration. Never mind anti-Semitism is heavily on the rise in Poland. The PM is having to tell the faithful to keep their gobs shut on anti-Semitism because, you'know, the country's trying to push oneness with the Jews in the victim stakes and it kinda spoils the image when it turns out nationalist bigotry extends just as readily to Jews.

So in the end guys, do you take offense that the mainstream media ridiculed this parade as racist/xenophobic/facist/nazi?

Because this is a topic I wish to make and its regarding of what I am seeing right now is an ideological war between Old School Nationalism and Modern Globalism and that its pretty much the sequel to last ideological wars between the Enlightenment and Counter Enlightenment as seen in the Reformation and Renissance, Monarchism vs Nationalism as seen in the Revolutionary era of George Washington, Napoleon, etc.

Which mainstream media ?
The Polish mainstream media ? The German one ? The Russian one ? The British one ?

When it comes to situations and events in non English speaking countries, you most likely won't have something like a relevant international mainstream media, because most media is deeply coupled to language and each language acts as its very own echo chamber resulting in discussions often varying wildly if you cross a border.

Satinavian:
Which mainstream media ?

To the youtuber, CNN, The Guardian, Dailymail.uk, BBC, etc.

Samtemdo8:

Satinavian:
Which mainstream media ?

To the youtuber, CNN, The Guardian, Dailymail.uk, BBC, etc.

Frankly, I do not remember CNN covering it but then I only follow their website rather than watching the TV channel. The Canadian mainstream did not seem to cover it. I do not really follow British media.

The Polish media my parents watch did cover it but only about opposition to the march from the local government. I found out about the neo-Nazi angle from either the Escapist or another political web forum I follow.

At this point its probably most sensible to just assume anything you hear about these protests is bullshit. The way the mainstream media here in Europe has twisted protests and marches into things they're not is sickening. At the same time, I assume I don't need to explain why an alt-right youtuber sniffing 30 tons of pure ideology a day isn't the best source for ANYTHING.

I mean, honestly, whining that he won't see anything like this in London because of muh anti-nationalist propaganda. No you dipshit, the reason you won't see anything like this in London is because 37% of the people that live there weren't even born in Britain. Only 44% are white British. Go figure.

Yeah, like how dare anyone in this thread imply that the country where half the jews in the holocaust died might be a tad racist!

Look, i'm not clicking on that youtube video (because politics and youtube) but I've seen coverage from people with actual standards for journalism and, most importantly, I know actual Polish people and..... yeah not giving these guys the benefit of the doubt here.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
I mean, honestly, whining that he won't see anything like this in London because of muh anti-nationalist propaganda. No you dipshit, the reason you won't see anything like this in London is because 37% of the people that live there weren't even born in Britain. Only 44% are white. Go figure.

London isn't a British city. It's an international city that just happens to be located in Britain.

Point of order, though: only ~45% are White British. The proportion of whites is about 60% including non-Britons. An estimated 5% of the population of London is French, for instance; plus eastern Europeans, other Anglophone nations, etc.

What's actually driving British out are the house prices. Nice to experience London in your 20s, but if you're not earning #50k by the time you want to buy a house and/or start a family, time to leave (mostly to Birmingham & Bristol according to surveys.)

Agema:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
I mean, honestly, whining that he won't see anything like this in London because of muh anti-nationalist propaganda. No you dipshit, the reason you won't see anything like this in London is because 37% of the people that live there weren't even born in Britain. Only 44% are white. Go figure.

London isn't a British city. It's an international city that just happens to be located in Britain.

Point of order, though: only ~45% are White British. The proportion of whites is about 60% including non-Britons. An estimated 5% of the population of London is French, for instance; plus eastern Europeans, other Anglophone nations, etc.

What's actually driving British out are the house prices. Nice to experience London in your 20s, but if you're not earning #50k by the time you want to buy a house and/or start a family, time to leave (mostly to Birmingham & Bristol according to surveys.)

Yup, edited accordingly.

Those things alone already explain a good bit of why you won't be seeing nationalist marches in London any time soon. I guess the guy could make a video laying out why he thinks London being an international city with an "ethno British minority" (no idea how else to phrase it) is a good or bad thing and go from there or something without necessarily ruining his alt-right street cred. Instead he casually drops 2 sentences subtly implying the British are pussywhipped for not having massive nationalist meetups in a city which is a melting pot of race and culture to begin with. (And London really thrives on that, depending on what standards you're measuring by.)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you'll never see him make a video about affordable housing either, which are a problem in more cities than just London, not outside of implying a few thousand immigrants are to blame for a housing shortage which neither politicians nor the market have really bothered to tackle for probably decades now.

Everyone here knows I'm absolutely anti-open borders and all that but fucking hell do I dislike all these Sargons and Milos and the thousands of copycats they've spawned. Its like they're all in a race to become the shittiest and most disingenuous ideologues ever. Samtemdo, you should really stop watching this crap.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you'll never see him make a video about affordable housing either, which are a problem in more cities than just London, not outside of implying a few thousand immigrants are to blame for a housing shortage which neither politicians nor the market have really bothered to tackle for probably decades now.

Yes, but to seriously address those sorts of topics, these guys ultimately have to heap some blame on their allies as well as enemies, because ass you say everyone's let it get that way. It's a great deal easier to waffle some crowd-pleaser that doesn't risk upsetting some of the guys they want to keep sweet.

Although actually, it strikes me that nationalism in practice is a lot about refusing to take a good, long, hard dose of national introspection in favour of just blaming foreigners, then finding nothing's improved 20 years later.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:

Agema:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
I mean, honestly, whining that he won't see anything like this in London because of muh anti-nationalist propaganda. No you dipshit, the reason you won't see anything like this in London is because 37% of the people that live there weren't even born in Britain. Only 44% are white. Go figure.

London isn't a British city. It's an international city that just happens to be located in Britain.

Point of order, though: only ~45% are White British. The proportion of whites is about 60% including non-Britons. An estimated 5% of the population of London is French, for instance; plus eastern Europeans, other Anglophone nations, etc.

What's actually driving British out are the house prices. Nice to experience London in your 20s, but if you're not earning #50k by the time you want to buy a house and/or start a family, time to leave (mostly to Birmingham & Bristol according to surveys.)

Yup, edited accordingly.

Those things alone already explain a good bit of why you won't be seeing nationalist marches in London any time soon. I guess the guy could make a video laying out why he thinks London being an international city with an "ethno British minority" (no idea how else to phrase it) is a good or bad thing and go from there or something without necessarily ruining his alt-right street cred. Instead he casually drops 2 sentences subtly implying the British are pussywhipped for not having massive nationalist meetups in a city which is a melting pot of race and culture to begin with. (And London really thrives on that, depending on what standards you're measuring by.)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you'll never see him make a video about affordable housing either, which are a problem in more cities than just London, not outside of implying a few thousand immigrants are to blame for a housing shortage which neither politicians nor the market have really bothered to tackle for probably decades now.

Everyone here knows I'm absolutely anti-open borders and all that but fucking hell do I dislike all these Sargons and Milos and the thousands of copycats they've spawned. Its like they're all in a race to become the shittiest and most disingenuous ideologues ever. Samtemdo, you should really stop watching this crap.

Except one guy, Vernaculis:

And this is why I rather watch these kinds of Youtubers than the Mainstream Media like CNN and BBC because I don't trust them.

I watch these guys for news at this point.

Samtemdo8:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:

Agema:

London isn't a British city. It's an international city that just happens to be located in Britain.

Point of order, though: only ~45% are White British. The proportion of whites is about 60% including non-Britons. An estimated 5% of the population of London is French, for instance; plus eastern Europeans, other Anglophone nations, etc.

What's actually driving British out are the house prices. Nice to experience London in your 20s, but if you're not earning #50k by the time you want to buy a house and/or start a family, time to leave (mostly to Birmingham & Bristol according to surveys.)

Yup, edited accordingly.

Those things alone already explain a good bit of why you won't be seeing nationalist marches in London any time soon. I guess the guy could make a video laying out why he thinks London being an international city with an "ethno British minority" (no idea how else to phrase it) is a good or bad thing and go from there or something without necessarily ruining his alt-right street cred. Instead he casually drops 2 sentences subtly implying the British are pussywhipped for not having massive nationalist meetups in a city which is a melting pot of race and culture to begin with. (And London really thrives on that, depending on what standards you're measuring by.)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you'll never see him make a video about affordable housing either, which are a problem in more cities than just London, not outside of implying a few thousand immigrants are to blame for a housing shortage which neither politicians nor the market have really bothered to tackle for probably decades now.

Everyone here knows I'm absolutely anti-open borders and all that but fucking hell do I dislike all these Sargons and Milos and the thousands of copycats they've spawned. Its like they're all in a race to become the shittiest and most disingenuous ideologues ever. Samtemdo, you should really stop watching this crap.

Except one guy, Vernaculis:

And this is why I rather watch these kinds of Youtubers than the Mainstream Media like CNN and BBC because I don't trust them.

I watch these guys for news at this point.

You don't trust the mainstream media, so you decide to search out and then listen to emtremely biased youtubers, who don't even have the most basic of editorial standards to follow? Youtubers, who are well known to feed their audience exactly what they want to hear because that's how they continue to make money, that have absolutely no incentive to tell you the truth?

Agema:
Although actually, it strikes me that nationalism in practice is a lot about refusing to take a good, long, hard dose of national introspection in favour of just blaming foreigners, then finding nothing's improved 20 years later.

Eh, maybe if you only look at nationalism in the 20th century and onward you might have a point there.

If you limited that assessment to current day first world nationalism I'd totally agree with you though.

And to me thats very frustrating because from my own POV, nationalist parties and outlets are the only ones willing to point out certain problems (while admittedly ignoring others completely themselves) which everyone else would rather pretend don't exist. Then they come up with totally idiotic explanations and solutions for those problems. In the end no one wins anything from it.

Samtemdo8:
And this is why I rather watch these kinds of Youtubers than the Mainstream Media like CNN and BBC because I don't trust them.

I watch these guys for news at this point.

Right, I totally get that and one part of that is the exact same for me - I don't trust the mainstream media one bit. Its foolish to pretend they've ever been honest or 100% accurate and there have certainly been worse periods when it comes to dishonest news (say, state run radio in Nazi Germany or whatever) but I trust the BBC about as far as I can throw them. Same for the German media, which in a way is even worse than the British. (Ie tabloids that stir up anger against minorities as the Daily Mail has been known to are bad, but that kind of thing doesn't even exist in Germany anymore. News outlets are essentially exchangeble and all pull in the same direction.) At this point the agenda of corporations like the BBC, CNN or the NYT have become transparent to the point that its almost insulting and how -anyone- can put a modicum of trust into their reporting is completely beyond me.

Still, quitting mainstream media for youtube channels... Well, its kind of like if you came home to dinner and your wife gave you a plate of literal shit to eat. Then you get up, disgusted, and decide the alternative to eating is going for a swim in the local sewage works. Its not better. You still end up covered in shit with a bitter taste in your mouth.

The best advice I can give here is to read, read and read some more. Not news, just books. Old books, new books, whatever. Read Orwell, read Dostoevsky, hell, read - and I say this unironically - Mein Kampf. And then read For Such a Time, just to get some balance. If you can't think of anything there are thousands of liberals, conservatives, fascists and antifascists and liberterians out there who at some point shared their recommended reading lists with the internet in the hopes that someone, somewhere might care - indulge them, pick a few books from all "sides" and read those. Varied reading ensures you can, for example, consume mainstream media or alt-right youtube videos and filter out the bullshit. Or just register the basic facts (march in Warsaw, lots of Polish flags, some hooligans, etc) and easily form your own opinion without needing the help of some ideologue video or TV program. The video you linked is 20 minutes long. Thats long enough to read multiple chapters of (the tragically misunderstood) 1984, for example.

I'm not saying this to be patronizing since you've probably read quite a bit already anyway - if I remember correctly you read Tolkien including the Silmarillion for example - so I'm not trying to be all "Read a book, pleb!". I'm just saying you're looking for alternatives in the wrong places.

Avnger:
You don't trust the youtubers, so you decide to search out and then listen to emtremely biased mainstream media, who don't even have the most basic of editorial standards to follow? Media media, who are well known to feed their audience exactly what they want to hear because that's how they continue to make money, that have absolutely no incentive to tell you the truth?

Its tragic that you can switch the names and its still just as accurate.

Have you 2 listened to Vernaculis?

And I read 1984 and understand its themes. And all I need from Mein Kampf is George Orwell's review of it.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:

Avnger:
You don't trust the youtubers, so you decide to search out and then listen to emtremely biased mainstream media, who don't even have the most basic of editorial standards to follow? Media media, who are well known to feed their audience exactly what they want to hear because that's how they continue to make money, that have absolutely no incentive to tell you the truth?

Its tragic that you can switch the names and its still just as accurate.

Fair enough. The point wasn't that one was necessarily better than the other; just that it's as ridiculous as your analogy above states. Though I'll generally take a corporate media outlet that has some regulatory oversight and mandatory disclosures over a youtuber with neither. I know where the money (well, most of it) and direction behind Fox/CNN/etc comes from; people like Sargon could be literally funded and given talking points by martians as far as anyone but they know.

Samtemdo8:
Have you 2 listened to Vernaculis?

And I read 1984 and understand its themes. And all I need from Mein Kampf is George Orwell's review of it.

Yes, I did. He's no different than any other youtuber who passes off his personal biases as "the truth" by providing just enough one-sided evidence to make his point (and enough of a strawman of the "other side" to knock down) and putting on a confident and authoritative personality regardless of whether he's giving something close to an unbiased analysis or he's talking out of his ass.[1]

[1] This second point is actually the most important part. All one needs to do is take a look at our current president to see how far a talented conman can get spouting bullshit. People naturally believe those who sound like they know what they're talking about.

Samtemdo8:
Have you 2 listened to Vernaculis?

Why is this relevant? Who should care?

As I've said before, you seem genuinely interested in critique and challenging what you believe, which is great, but you also have a tendency to seek out the worst methods of decision-making and analysis.

These people have no greater credibility than anyone you could pull off the street. No peer review, no editorial standards, no greater body of evidence, no superhuman power of observation. They are-- quite literally-- just random people with strong opinions and microphones. They do not speak with any authority, and they are no more experts than the people I pass at the bus stop, who wouldn't know what they were talking about.

Look for actual evidence, and analyse it.

Samtemdo8:
Have you 2 listened to Vernaculis?

I skipped through the video a bit and uh.... Yeah, so the media sucks right now. Like 5 people in this thread have already agreed on that. Why do I need some dude - some literally who - to point out the media sucks over 52 minutes when I already know that to begin with?

Though its quite funny that this guy - yet another youtuber who seems to have gained his following by making videos about the last US election and bashing tumblrinas, yet another nasally voiced young man with some sort of cartoon avatar that stands in place of a real face - presents himself by shopping his avatar over a news reporter. Since he does the same in other videos too I'm guessing the irony was unintentional and totally lost on him.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:

Samtemdo8:
Have you 2 listened to Vernaculis?

I skipped through the video a bit and uh.... Yeah, so the media sucks right now. Like 5 people in this thread have already agreed on that. Why do I need some dude - some literally who - to point out the media sucks over 52 minutes when I already know that to begin with?

Though its quite funny that this guy - yet another youtuber who seems to have gained his following by making videos about the last US election and bashing tumblrinas, yet another nasally voiced young man with some sort of cartoon avatar that stands in place of a real face - presents himself by shopping his avatar over a news reporter. Since he does the same in other videos too I'm guessing the irony was unintentional and totally lost on him.

The dude however knows when to be funny:

Agema:
Firstly, as far as I am aware Merkel has stated that German government will not support any claims made by German citizens requesting reparations for their expulsion, which seems contrary to what you suggest

There was footage of her saying it all over the Polish news, followed by our president making a mockery out of her to her face.
It was more than a decade ago so I don't know if it's something that's easy to find online.

jademunky:
Yeah, like how dare anyone in this thread imply that the country where half the jews in the holocaust died might be a tad racist!

Are you suggesting that it was the Poles who ran the concentration camps?
I hope not, that would make you a moron.

After getting tag teamed by the Nazi Reich and the Soviet Union at the end of a long line of invaders, I can forgive the Poles of most anything. Isolationism? Sure. Let them be Polish for a while before the world forces them to be multiculti.

Vanilla ISIS:

There was footage of her saying it all over the Polish news, followed by our president making a mockery out of her to her face.
It was more than a decade ago so I don't know if it's something that's easy to find online.

This would almost certainly be the meeting of Merkel and the late Jaroslaw Kaszynski in 2006. There are reports I've found from BBC, Deutsche Welle, Der Spiegel and EU Observer.

Some group of Germans were planning a lawsuit to claim reparations from Poland. Kaszynski wanted a formal treaty blocking Germans from claiming reparations from Poland and Poles claiming reparations from Germany in return. Merkel refused the requested treaty, although reiterated German government policy to not support the actions of German citizens making claims from Poland (reiterated as it was official German government policy on the issue since Gerhard Schroder's time.)

I suspect her refusal to sign the treaty is being misremembered as her support for the reparation claims.

There are no reports of any particularly harsh or belittling words spoken by Kaczyski about Merkel in front of the cameras. Nor, I suspect, would he have done so. He may have exercised his petty vindictiveness later from the safety of a Polish TV interview with Merkel absent, of course.

Silvanus:

Samtemdo8:
Have you 2 listened to Vernaculis?

Why is this relevant? Who should care?

As I've said before, you seem genuinely interested in critique and challenging what you believe, which is great, but you also have a tendency to seek out the worst methods of decision-making and analysis.

These people have no greater credibility than anyone you could pull off the street. No peer review, no editorial standards, no greater body of evidence, no superhuman power of observation. They are-- quite literally-- just random people with strong opinions and microphones. They do not speak with any authority, and they are no more experts than the people I pass at the bus stop, who wouldn't know what they were talking about.

Look for actual evidence, and analyse it.

Yeah, it's one thing to distrust the normal media, but they, at least in theory, have a legal obligation to tell a version of the truth, with plenty of oversite from all sides waiting for them to slip up.

Hence the rise of hours of punditry a day. No such obligation there. Thank you Fox News and your Supreme Court case,

And youtubers don't even have that, as long as they keep the slander to a level where it isn't worth trying to sue.

altnameJag:
Yeah, it's one thing to distrust the normal media, but they, at least in theory, have a legal obligation to tell a version of the truth [...]

Not in the UK, they don't. There exists no regulatory body with any legal power.

Edit: Of course, I agree with the thrust of the argument, that internet punditry is an even worse source of information.

Vanilla ISIS:

Are you suggesting that it was the Poles who ran the concentration camps?
I hope not, that would make you a moron.

I am saying that Poland has a history of antisemitism and the level of complicity and collaboration with the Nazis WRT their jew-hunting was...pretty fucking enthusiastic.

But hey, feel free to make crap up that other posters never said.

theevilgenius60:
After getting tag teamed by the Nazi Reich and the Soviet Union at the end of a long line of invaders, I can forgive the Poles of most anything. Isolationism? Sure. Let them be Polish for a while before the world forces them to be multiculti.

First-generation Polish immigrants make up a large percentage of the city I live in. Do you not see a problem with the double-standard at play here? The isolationism seems to be very-much a one-way street.

jademunky:

First-generation Polish immigrants make up a large percentage of the city I live in. Do you not see a problem with the double-standard at play here? The isolationism seems to be very-much a one-way street.

Whose double standard? The Poles who live in your city are unlikely to be the same people who have a big issue with others emigrating into Poland.

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