Israeli Police recommend Benjamin Netanyahu be Arrested

https://www.yahoo.com/news/reports-police-recommend-indictments-netanyahu-182739090.html

So, this is pretty serious. Netanyahu is now officially facing real charges over bribery and breach of trust. He hasn't actually been indicted yet, but these charges now go to the Israeli Attorney General, Avihai Mendelblit, who will make the final call. Even if ultimately the AG chooses not to prosecute (which would look really bad), this is a serious black mark on him. And of course, he's copying Trump by saying this is a 'witch hunt' and begging the Israeli people to keep him as their leader.

Personally, I won't feel bad if Netanyahu goes. He's one of the biggest obstacles to Mideast Peace right now, and if he is corrupt he needs to go.

A man who is really close to the Kushner family and even let Jared stay at his house over the summers may be corrupt?! Oh, say it ain't so!
Are you also saying Netanyahu stood to benefit more from Trump being elected than Hilary Clinton?! Oh fuck!

Silentpony:
A man who is really close to the Kushner family and even let Jared stay at his house over the summers may be corrupt?! Oh, say it ain't so!
Are you also saying Netanyahu stood to benefit more from Trump being elected than Hilary Clinton?! Oh fuck!

I don't think you could have come across any more petty, partisan, and uncaring about any type of true discussion if you tried...

OT:

Good. The man's a snake and has done significantly more harm than good on the global stage.

Avnger:

Silentpony:
A man who is really close to the Kushner family and even let Jared stay at his house over the summers may be corrupt?! Oh, say it ain't so!
Are you also saying Netanyahu stood to benefit more from Trump being elected than Hilary Clinton?! Oh fuck!

I don't think you could have come across any more petty, partisan, and uncaring about any type of true discussion if you tried...

OT:

Good. The man's a snake and has done significantly more harm than good on the global stage.

Good discussion like the oh so subtle Netanyahu is a corrupt snake? I don't think you could have come across any more petty, partisan and uncaring about any type of true discussion if you tried.

Or OP's he's corrupt and needs to go totally legit discussion? I'm struggling to understand what you think you're complaining about.

But lets be fair and play devil's advocate - Netanyahu is innocent of all charges, its all trumped up charges, and he'll be vindicated. Discuss!

Mr.Mattress:
Personally, I won't feel bad if Netanyahu goes. He's one of the biggest obstacles to Mideast Peace right now, and if he is corrupt he needs to go.

I remember reading somewhere that this kind of shit is not actually unusual in Israel. Every prime minister they've had since Yitzhak Rabin has been the subject of a criminal investigation at some point. A couple were even convicted, IIRC. The country simply has a high-level corruption problem that they find difficult to shake.

Hopefully this finishes his career, because Netanyahu's policies have been destructive to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. But I suspect it would take quite a bit more than just an indictment to properly disrupt the fundamentalist/conservative ruling bloc.

Avnger:
I don't think you could have come across any more petty, partisan, and uncaring about any type of true discussion if you tried...

The colonial viceroy of Palestine has been accused of corruption? Shocking.

(Not sure if that accomplishes it.)

Seanchaidh:

Avnger:
I don't think you could have come across any more petty, partisan, and uncaring about any type of true discussion if you tried...

The colonial viceroy of Palestine has been accused of corruption? Shocking.

(Not sure if that accomplishes it.)

At least it's on topic :P

And if we're using that frame of reference, I think Emperor of Palestine (ala Britain to India) fits better.

Well, I hope they bust him over this and that whoever takes over is slightly less crazy-hawkish...But I'm not holding my breath. :s

Another rightist leader turns out to be a criminal? Gee, colour me surprised.

I've considered him shady for a long time: there are plenty of scandals and corruption investigations that have swirled around Netanyahu since the 90s. And it's not just Netanyahu, either. Numerous close associates of his are accused of bribery and other misconduct, his wife has been accused of abusive behaviour, improper expenses and gifts, the latter of which his son is also accused of...

Birds of a feather flock together and all that; he seems to me to be the centre of a whole clique of people who think their power is just there to be exploited to maximum personal gain, ethics be damned.

He deserves far worse than prison. The man is a psychopath.

Adam Jensen:
He deserves far worse than prison. The man is a psychopath.

Actually, I think he's worse because he's not a psychopath.

He is, along with the likes of Donald Trump, people who are deeply problematic for political systems because they have such contempt for good democratic standards.

In practice, nowhere has a watertight system. Good ethical conduct in politics is not so much enforced as respected by the holders of office. What the Netanyahus and Trumps of this world do is have little or no ethical concern whatsoever, seeing high office as merely what they can do rather than what they should. The end result of this when unchecked is the sort of thing that has gone on recently in Brazil. And there really is not that much differentiating many Western countries from the likes of Brazil other than the willingness of politicians to uphold standards themselves, albeit with scrutiny from the public.

Democratic apathy, crisis or polarisation facilitates these scumbags because corruption goes unnoticed, or the integrity of the political system is sidelined for short-term gains. Iniquity is normalised, and it then becomes a hard, hard slog to restore good conduct. Trump, for instance, claims he'll drain the swamp... but he's just draining it into the even bigger swamp that he represents. Cleaning up corruption is like any political claim - easy to make, hard to do, and unnecessary for re-election - realistically, it may go decades untackled.

Agema:
Actually, I think he's worse because he's not a psychopath.

People like Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, etc. are psychopaths. They're not the serial killer type of deranged psychopath. They're the more common type of psychopath that can function in a society and you can usually find them in politics, big business and even other professions like sport (Lance Armstrong comes to mind) or entertainment industry (Weinstein).

bastardofmelbourne:

Mr.Mattress:
Personally, I won't feel bad if Netanyahu goes. He's one of the biggest obstacles to Mideast Peace right now, and if he is corrupt he needs to go.

I remember reading somewhere that this kind of shit is not actually unusual in Israel. Every prime minister they've had since Yitzhak Rabin has been the subject of a criminal investigation at some point. A couple were even convicted, IIRC. The country simply has a high-level corruption problem that they find difficult to shake.

Hopefully this finishes his career, because Netanyahu's policies have been destructive to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. But I suspect it would take quite a bit more than just an indictment to properly disrupt the fundamentalist/conservative ruling bloc.

His policies are not really destructive from an Israeli perspective. From their point of view, peace is just a missile pointed in the direction of the Palestinians.

Adam Jensen:

People like Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, etc. are psychopaths. They're not the serial killer type of deranged psychopath. They're the more common type of psychopath that can function in a society and you can usually find them in politics, big business and even other professions like sport (Lance Armstrong comes to mind) or entertainment industry (Weinstein).

Well, Trump is a narcissist: they share certain traits in common with sociopaths, though.

Realistically, lots of people like that would be likely to score quite high on antisocial personality disorder measures, but actually I don't think we should casually pathologise when there's every chance they're well in the normal spectrum. It's just they're selfish, ruthless, rotten people.

Agema:
Well, Trump is a narcissist: they share certain traits in common with sociopaths, though.

Realistically, lots of people like that would be likely to score quite high on antisocial personality disorder measures, but actually I don't think we should casually pathologise when there's every chance they're well in the normal spectrum. It's just they're selfish, ruthless, rotten people.

They act in ways which are encouraged by our systems. Our systems reward selfish, ruthless, rotten people. Selfish, ruthless, rotten people make good deputies of capital. Cheaper to buy, more zealous in their representation of the highest bidder.

Seanchaidh:
They act in ways which are encouraged by our systems. Our systems reward selfish, ruthless, rotten people. Selfish, ruthless, rotten people make good deputies of capital. Cheaper to buy, more zealous in their representation of the highest bidder.

In general, a lot of people with unpleasant personality traits will often get to the top in business and politics. Naked ambition, strong desire for self-aggrandisement (financial or societal status), enjoyment of power or domination, and lack of empathy in order to throw people under the bus to get things done.

Thinking more about the likes of Netanyahu, I'm going more in the direction of political corruption than empowerment of capital. Our systems should be designed to combat corruption in politics. And it is something that transcends - or should transcend - party lines. Much as I despise the UK's Daily Mail generally, for instance, it has an impressively low tolerance of government corruption.

I understand to some extent why politicians carrying out the business of state are partially or fully immune from normal legal process; because they can need some freedom to get things done and not be dragged down by vexatious litigation and investigations. On the other hand, where this is the case, that imposes considerable responsibility on the political system (to which law enforcement is partially devolved) to ensure politicians remain within the law. That requires a healthy political system which holds integrity in good esteem. Across many countries, despite (or perhaps because of) a restive citizenry, this is falling by the wayside.

Agema:

Seanchaidh:
They act in ways which are encouraged by our systems. Our systems reward selfish, ruthless, rotten people. Selfish, ruthless, rotten people make good deputies of capital. Cheaper to buy, more zealous in their representation of the highest bidder.

In general, a lot of people with unpleasant personality traits will often get to the top in business and politics. Naked ambition, strong desire for self-aggrandisement (financial or societal status), enjoyment of power or domination, and lack of empathy in order to throw people under the bus to get things done.

Thinking more about the likes of Netanyahu, I'm going more in the direction of political corruption than empowerment of capital. Our systems should be designed to combat corruption in politics. And it is something that transcends - or should transcend - party lines. Much as I despise the UK's Daily Mail generally, for instance, it has an impressively low tolerance of government corruption.

I understand to some extent why politicians carrying out the business of state are partially or fully immune from normal legal process; because they can need some freedom to get things done and not be dragged down by vexatious litigation and investigations. On the other hand, where this is the case, that imposes considerable responsibility on the political system (to which law enforcement is partially devolved) to ensure politicians remain within the law. That requires a healthy political system which holds integrity in good esteem. Across many countries, despite (or perhaps because of) a restive citizenry, this is falling by the wayside.

A good place to start might be to make office-holding more tenuous; make the continued existence of a government, and the service of each officeholder, require a certain amount of affirmative public consent. One way to do that is to implement delegative democracy, which has tenuousness of legislative authority turned up to eleven.

 

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