Apple's move to fully automate Factories

IF you have been keeping up with Apple's production over the past decade, you are aware they had previous issues of having substandard working conditions at their factories in the past. Instead of improving conditions for humans and creating more jobs, they have been removing humans from the equation all together and shifting to fully automating factories.

As of January 2017, there were in Phase two of their long term automation plan:

Back in 2015, Foxconn began its efforts toward automation, stating that they wanted to achieve 30 percent automation by 2020. Right now, the manufacturing giant has already deployed over 40,000 of its Foxbots, the industrial robots it has developed in-house. Foxconn has the capability to produce 10,000 Foxbots annually, which could be used to replace human labor.

According to Dai, the company?s factories in Chengdu, western China; Shenzhen, southern China; and Zhengzhou, northern China, are already in the second or third phase of this longterm automation plan, and at least 10 fully automated production lines are already in place at some of those factories.

https://futurism.com/apple-manufacturer-foxconn-to-fully-replace-humans-with-robots/
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/AC/Foxconn-unit-to-cut-over-10-000-jobs-as-robotics-take-over

So if Apple is planning on having fully automated factories in the near future, what local benefits does the host nation of said factorizes actually gain? If the factories increase pollution without creating many jobs, is it still worth it to communities to bring them to their area? Apple has faced pollution charges repeatedly as it is, so I am not seeing the long term benefits of having their factories in one's community.

https://www.environmentalleader.com/2014/09/apple-faces-pollution-charges-again/
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/technology/apple-suppliers-causing-environmental-problems-chinese-group-says.html
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jan/20/apple-pollution-supply-chain
http://fortune.com/2012/01/13/apple-factory-inspections-turn-up-scores-of-labor-violations/
http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/29/technology/apple-foxconn-report/index.htm

Trying not be cynical at mo, but a few cash in the pockets of a few necessary people may get Apple what they want regardless of how it benefits any locals. Automation is too useful for any company like them to walk back on it now, better people in their countries consider and plan for this future. Are they still being a little tax shy also? I do wish people would stop rewarding them with their hard-earned monies

Lil devils x:
So if Apple is planning on having fully automated factories in the near future, what local benefits does the host nation of said factorizes actually gain? If the factories increase pollution without creating many jobs, is it still worth it to communities to bring them to their area? Apple has faced pollution charges repeatedly as it is, so I am not seeing the long term benefits of having their factories in one's community.

1 - Fully automated factories still need a lot of support infrastructure, which is still jobs to an extent. Arguably more skilled ones, which is better in the long run.
2 - There will still be money entering the economy as a result of the activity taking place there.
3 - IIRC China is one of the only providers of certain rare earth metals, meaning that Apple would be buying off them regardless - it makes little real difference where in the chain the manufacture occurs - and bear in mind that China is one of the largest iPhone markets, so it still makes business sense to locate there.
4 - Geopolitically, it keeps China in a position of power. While they continue to be a dominant source of manufactured parts, it's difficult for people to threaten them with real sanctions for their actions - e.g. South China Sea.

I mean, I'm fairly ambivalent. On the one hand, the conditions in those places were lousy, and good riddance. On the other, jobs are lost, in places which I imagine had come to rely on them heavily.

Automation is obviously more efficient than having human workers, that being said, the human workers at this point are probably just packager's and machine operators. so with going as fully automated as possible, they'll probably only have a few machine operators and maintenance people. It'll be cheaper for apple in the long run and the Chinese government couldn't care if 10,000 of its citizens lose employment, they'll still get a cut of the revenue. I'm against mass automation but it's going to happen eventually and we should seek out ways to cushion the impact it will have on the world.

Lil devils x:
So if Apple is planning on having fully automated factories in the near future, what local benefits does the host nation of said factorizes actually gain?

The Chinese government maintains legal authority over those factories, an important form of leverage. So, if they want, they can demand a greater share of Apple's profits.

Sounds like a great move to me. No one wants to work in a factory.

Blood Brain Barrier:
Sounds like a great move to me. No one wants to work in a factory.

Is this the Corporate Democrat 2020 tagline then?

Seanchaidh:
The Chinese government maintains legal authority over those factories, an important form of leverage. So, if they want, they can demand a greater share of Apple's profits.

keiskay:
the Chinese government couldn't care if 10,000 of its citizens lose employment, they'll still get a cut of the revenue. I'm against mass automation but it's going to happen eventually and we should seek out ways to cushion the impact it will have on the world.

I was not discussing just this issue in regards to China, but more in regards to the US since Apple is bringing automated factories to the US where they will still be bringing their pollution issues without providing the jobs that people think it will. Even if they provide jobs initially, those are set to be short term as they move to full automation according to their long term plan. It appears to be a situation where they will hire people short term then lay them off when they are replaced as planned. Would the benefits of an automated factory outweigh the pollution issue to the communities they propose to set up in in the United States?

Lil devils x:

Seanchaidh:
The Chinese government maintains legal authority over those factories, an important form of leverage. So, if they want, they can demand a greater share of Apple's profits.

keiskay:
the Chinese government couldn't care if 10,000 of its citizens lose employment, they'll still get a cut of the revenue. I'm against mass automation but it's going to happen eventually and we should seek out ways to cushion the impact it will have on the world.

I was not discussing just this issue in regards to China, but more in regards to the US since Apple is bringing automated factories to the US where they will still be bringing their pollution issues without providing the jobs that people think it will. Even if they provide jobs initially, those are set to be short term as they move to full automation according to their long term plan. It appears to be a situation where they will hire people short term then lay them off when they are replaced as planned. Would the benefits of an automated factory outweigh the pollution issue to the communities they propose to set up in in the United States?

Theoretically it could; a community could institute some ordinance that would balance the books so to speak. But practically they'll almost certainly find a place that will forgo doing so.

Seanchaidh:

Lil devils x:

Seanchaidh:
The Chinese government maintains legal authority over those factories, an important form of leverage. So, if they want, they can demand a greater share of Apple's profits.

keiskay:
the Chinese government couldn't care if 10,000 of its citizens lose employment, they'll still get a cut of the revenue. I'm against mass automation but it's going to happen eventually and we should seek out ways to cushion the impact it will have on the world.

I was not discussing just this issue in regards to China, but more in regards to the US since Apple is bringing automated factories to the US where they will still be bringing their pollution issues without providing the jobs that people think it will. Even if they provide jobs initially, those are set to be short term as they move to full automation according to their long term plan. It appears to be a situation where they will hire people short term then lay them off when they are replaced as planned. Would the benefits of an automated factory outweigh the pollution issue to the communities they propose to set up in in the United States?

Theoretically it could; a community could institute some ordinance that would balance the books so to speak. But practically they'll almost certainly find a place that will forgo doing so.

Well of course, you have places like Texas that you have people willing to bury Nuclear waste in their backyards, and governments who will let them, but I was thinking more in terms of the actual benefits to the community not just the people "on the take" that are willing to give their kids cancer if it makes them a buck.

Wait a second, I thought this automatization stuff was supposed to cost ME my job, not some random kid in China. They keep toiling away in the mines while I relax on some kind of basic income, that was the deal!

Gosh darn freeloaders.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
Wait a second, I thought this automatization stuff was supposed to cost ME my job, not some random kid in China. They keep toiling away in the mines while I relax on some kind of basic income, that was the deal!

Gosh darn freeloaders.

The US does not get Basic income and I would not expect it to anytime soon. In the US, you just get kicked out onto the streets then get ticketed for being on the street so they run the homeless off to places without ordinances to go suffer and die quietly where they cannot see or hear them. They cut off their ability to receive food, water, shelter, medical care, government assistance of any kind and send them away to suffer until they die by force here. That is their plan for dealing with those who unemployed in the US. You are required to provide an address and prove citizenship in order to receive the little assistance that the government provides. If you live in an area that does not have shelters, halfway houses, soup kitchens and are not part of a religious organization, (Much of the US does not have access to these resources) you may have no options at all. Not to mention those mentally unfit to even be able to fill out the necessary paperwork or provide such documentation. If they do not have someone actively taking care of them, they are often just left out to die instead. In much of the US, there is no public transport, no support structure for those needing food, water or shelter and no access to the basic resources needed to survive.

Hell in the US, they would rather ticket and fine those attempting to help the homeless than allow anyone to help them. Yes, it really is that bad.

EDIT: No, none of that was an exaggeration. This is what it is like to be poor in the US:

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article179925711.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study
https://www.globalresearch.ca/feed-the-homeless-in-america-get-fined-or-arrested/5626590

Lil devils x:

Seanchaidh:

Lil devils x:

I was not discussing just this issue in regards to China, but more in regards to the US since Apple is bringing automated factories to the US where they will still be bringing their pollution issues without providing the jobs that people think it will. Even if they provide jobs initially, those are set to be short term as they move to full automation according to their long term plan. It appears to be a situation where they will hire people short term then lay them off when they are replaced as planned. Would the benefits of an automated factory outweigh the pollution issue to the communities they propose to set up in in the United States?

Theoretically it could; a community could institute some ordinance that would balance the books so to speak. But practically they'll almost certainly find a place that will forgo doing so.

Well of course, you have places like Texas that you have people willing to bury Nuclear waste in their backyards, and governments who will let them, but I was thinking more in terms of the actual benefits to the community not just the people "on the take" that are willing to give their kids cancer if it makes them a buck.

A community could distribute extra taxes to its inhabitants; doesn't have to be about corruption.

Don't put those suicide nets away just yet, Apple. Even robots might feel like offing themselves. Sure, the official story *claims* that it wasn't suicide but they can't be trusted.

Seanchaidh:
A community could distribute extra taxes to its inhabitants; doesn't have to be about corruption.

>Apple
>Pay taxes

CM156:

Seanchaidh:
A community could distribute extra taxes to its inhabitants; doesn't have to be about corruption.

>Apple
>Pay taxes

As I indicated somewhere above, this is indeed quite theoretical.

Seanchaidh:

CM156:

Seanchaidh:
A community could distribute extra taxes to its inhabitants; doesn't have to be about corruption.

>Apple
>Pay taxes

As I indicated somewhere above, this is indeed quite theoretical.

It's like discounting wind speed when designing buildings in Chicago. Or ignoring rainfall when designing anything in Seattle.

keiskay:
I'm against mass automation but it's going to happen eventually and we should seek out ways to cushion the impact it will have on the world.

Unnamed journalist at the opening of Henry Ford's car assembly plant. October 1908.

If you are against mass automation, what would you be *for* then? Or is it more about the people in control of this automation instead?

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
Wait a second, I thought this automatization stuff was supposed to cost ME my job, not some random kid in China. They keep toiling away in the mines while I relax on some kind of basic income, that was the deal!

Gosh darn freeloaders.

Well. Perhaps the workers freed from wage slavery in Chinese factories will turn their hands and minds to other industries (so as the West moved from manufacturing towards services), and maybe they'll put Westerners out of a job in those areas instead.

CM156:

Seanchaidh:

CM156:

>Apple
>Pay taxes

As I indicated somewhere above, this is indeed quite theoretical.

It's like discounting wind speed when designing buildings in Chicago. Or ignoring rainfall when designing anything in Seattle.

Look, this is just why we need one world government, OK?

:P

(Or a global tax authority)

Seanchaidh:

Look, this is just why we need one world government, OK?

When do I get my Galaxy Class Starship?

McElroy:

keiskay:
I'm against mass automation but it's going to happen eventually and we should seek out ways to cushion the impact it will have on the world.

Unnamed journalist at the opening of Henry Ford's car assembly plant. October 1908.

If you are against mass automation, what would you be *for* then? Or is it more about the people in control of this automation instead?

I should clarify that I'm against rapid automation as there's no alternative to support the current socio-economic system in place. Such as blue collar jobs, which are the first being automatized. Any system that requires taxes to fund (military, police, social security, welfare, etc.) will also immediately suffer, as machines don't pay taxes to provide for those systems.

Seanchaidh:

CM156:

Seanchaidh:

As I indicated somewhere above, this is indeed quite theoretical.

It's like discounting wind speed when designing buildings in Chicago. Or ignoring rainfall when designing anything in Seattle.

Look, this is just why we need one world government, OK?

:P

(Or a global tax authority)

Only if that single world government is the Papal State.

Agema:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
Wait a second, I thought this automatization stuff was supposed to cost ME my job, not some random kid in China. They keep toiling away in the mines while I relax on some kind of basic income, that was the deal!

Gosh darn freeloaders.

Well. Perhaps the workers freed from wage slavery in Chinese factories will turn their hands and minds to other industries (so as the West moved from manufacturing towards services), and maybe they'll put Westerners out of a job in those areas instead.

Yeah aight sounds pretty good to me.

Provided I get my basic income at some point. We're really sleeping on that one, could prove disastrous

Seanchaidh:

Lil devils x:

Seanchaidh:

Theoretically it could; a community could institute some ordinance that would balance the books so to speak. But practically they'll almost certainly find a place that will forgo doing so.

Well of course, you have places like Texas that you have people willing to bury Nuclear waste in their backyards, and governments who will let them, but I was thinking more in terms of the actual benefits to the community not just the people "on the take" that are willing to give their kids cancer if it makes them a buck.

A community could distribute extra taxes to its inhabitants; doesn't have to be about corruption.

We have a Republican Majority Government. As long as we have a majority republican Government, it has to be about corruption. Hell, they had a problem with the House Chaplain saying:

As legislation on taxes continues to be debated this week and next, may all Members be mindful that the institutions and structures of our great Nation guarantee the opportunities that have allowed some to achieve great success, while others continue to struggle. May their efforts these days guarantee that there are not winners and losers under new tax laws, but benefits balanced and shared by all Americans.

The very idea of allowing all Americans to benefit from something is sacrilege to them. This is the US we are talking about here, not Norway.

Ninjamedic:

When do I get my Galaxy Class Starship?

Constitution not good enough for you?

 

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