Trumps HUD Secretary plan to increase Homelessness by increasing rent on Low Income Families

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Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson wants Americans living on housing assistance to put more of their income toward rent and he wants to give public housing authorities the ability to impose work requirements on tenants.

Under current law, most tenants who get federal housing assistance pay 30 percent of their adjusted income toward rent, and the government kicks in the rest up to a certain amount.

According to the HUD plan unveiled Wednesday, the amount many renters would pay jumps to 35 percent of gross income.

In some cases, rental payments for some of the neediest families would triple, rising from a minimum of $50 per month to a minimum of $150, according to HUD officials. Some 712,000 households would see their rents jump to $150 per month under the proposal, the officials said.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/25/605900171/hud-unveils-plan-to-increase-rent-on-millions-receiving-federal-housing-assistan

At a time when we should be increasing low income housing to combat the rising Homeless Crisis in the US, Trump's HUD is actually trying to make the current bad situation much worse.

Homeless Increasing across the US:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-homeless-how-we-got-here-20180201-story.html
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/homeless/seattles-homeless-population-grows-more-than-40-percent-in-two-years/281-497511264
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2018/03/dallas-homeless-count/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-us-homeless-crisis-20171205-story.html
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/the-number-of-homeless-people-in-america-increased-for-the-first-time-in-7-years/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nyc-rise-in-homeless-is-one-of-the-biggest-in-the-u-s-1512605253
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/study-drastic-increase-in-homeless-students-in-central-florida/623321182
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/11/homeless_harrisburg_rough_wint.html
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/social-justice-1/2018/03/21/homelessness-rise-living-dallas-streets-not-shelters-really-spiked
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma/articles/2017-12-08/report-oklahoma-sees-increase-in-homeless-families
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/report-michigan-has-one-of-the-largest-populations-of-homeless-students-in-us

But, but, but have you seen the deficit lately? We can't afford to give tax cuts to the ultra-rich AND help house the poors.

republicans shitting on poor people? oh say it ain't so.

Have posted this before here, but it bears repeating

Official OHCHR statement of Philip Alston here.

This was mid December just gone, but clearly still relevant and growing ever more so. This professor has put infinitely more thought and effort into the identification of current US issues than any person in office as of writing. The sheer unbridled, hypocritical, short-sighted greed and pure cowardice shown by these Republicans as they attack only those who are powerless to fight back, is sickening. And R-voting citizens are all a-ok with it as long as it isn't them and they don't have to see it. The free-market wealth consolidation enthusiasts sure are trickling down something all over their constituents, and it sure-as-shit ain't what they would have everyone believe...

Xsjadoblayde:

This was mid December just gone, but clearly still relevant and growing ever more so. This professor has put infinitely more thought and effort into the identification of current US issues than any person in office as of writing. The sheer unbridled, hypocritical, short-sighted greed and pure cowardice shown by these Republicans as they attack only those who are powerless to fight back, is sickening. And R-voting citizens are all a-ok with it as long as it isn't them and they don't have to see it. The free-market wealth consolidation enthusiasts sure are trickling down something all over their constituents, and it sure-as-shit ain't what they would have everyone believe...

The reality though is many of those voting Republican do not even realize what the Republicans are actually doing. The reality is the Republicans lie to their constituents about basically everything, so even the poor republicans think the democrats or immigrants are the ones responsible for their problems rather than the republicans. The Republicans have actually managed to convince many of those most harmed by their policies that they are fighting for them and helping them and that is why this only gets worse in Red states. Republicans cut education ensuring that many in their state do not have adequate access to education and instead fill their heads with a ton of nonsense that the people living there actually believe. As long as they can keep the people they represent ignorant of what is really happening they can maintain their control over them.

I have listened to many of these people talk about their problems and the absurd things they believe in regards to government officials, democrats, Obama.. These people have had their heads filled with ridiculousness from right wing media is why they vote the way they do. I see this only getting worse as the Republicans expand their media takeover expansion.

http://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/
https://fair.org/extra/the-rise-of-the-right-wing-media-machine/
http://www.suewilsonreports.com/2010/12/right-wing-hijacks-radio-gop-wins.html
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/02/598916366/sinclair-broadcast-group-forces-nearly-200-station-anchors-to-read-same-script
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/6/17202824/sinclair-tribune-map
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/fake-news-trump-launches-real-news-series-n790241

If everything they see/hear from their local news, radio, family, friends and neighbors are telling them this nonsense, they actually wind up believing it to be true.

Lil devils x:

If everything they see/hear from their local news, radio, family, friends and neighbors are telling them this nonsense, they actually wind up believing it to be true.

It ain't like it's hard anyway. All someone has to do HERE to get locally electable is the following

-I support Trump and hate Hillary!
-Coal!
-Build the wall!
-I ain't liberal!

And you got it.

Smithnikov:

Lil devils x:

If everything they see/hear from their local news, radio, family, friends and neighbors are telling them this nonsense, they actually wind up believing it to be true.

It ain't like it's hard anyway. All someone has to do HERE to get locally electable is the following

-I support Trump and hate Hillary!
-Coal!
-Build the wall!
-I ain't liberal!

And you got it.

Yes, they actually have their people here in local diners and hang outs spreading this nonsense here. They sink their anchors in local clubs that control the town beautification projects and holiday events. They "exclude" those who disagree and so it becomes social suicide to disagree with them. Many of them control local businesses and only hire within their social circles at the local churches. By forcing all of those in need in rural areas to depend on them through their church groups, they have tight control over who is and who is not allowed to receive help and the conditions they choose to apply to them and this gives them even more power over others. All of the assistance for the poor in this area is Religion based so those who are not Christian or at least agree to pretend to be have great difficulty finding the help they need.

Sadly many areas just give their homeless a one way ticket to somewhere else, Often to California to become their problem insteadhttps://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Nevada-Settles-Homeless-Dumping-Lawsuit-369736411.html

About that.. They bus their homeless to California and then blame California for the Homeless problem. Not that California does not have more than it's fair share of Homeless, just instead of other states creating adequate programs to deal with the Homeless they just send their homeless to California and use their resources instead.

Well, Republicans hate poor people, so no surprise here. Poorness is a moral failure to Randroids like Paul Ryan.

Hot take, but with unemployment down, recruiting for the military is also down. We need more bodies for the machine, and what better way than to squeeze poor people and force them into a situation where enlistment starts looking like a good idea?

Jux:
Well, Republicans hate poor people, so no surprise here. Poorness is a moral failure to Randroids like Paul Ryan.

Hot take, but with unemployment down, recruiting for the military is also down. We need more bodies for the machine, and what better way than to squeeze poor people and force them into a situation where enlistment starts looking like a good idea?

Unemployment may be down, however underemployment and homelessness is rising. Due to wages not keeping up with the cost of living, we have the need for assistance increasing rather than decreasing and an extreme lack of affordable housing.

Jux:
Well, Republicans hate poor people, so no surprise here. Poorness is a moral failure to Randroids like Paul Ryan.

Hot take, but with unemployment down, recruiting for the military is also down. We need more bodies for the machine, and what better way than to squeeze poor people and force them into a situation where enlistment starts looking like a good idea?

Get a good jump in it before the private prisons push for more laws to make sure they can fill their beds and coffers.

Lil devils x:

Jux:
Well, Republicans hate poor people, so no surprise here. Poorness is a moral failure to Randroids like Paul Ryan.

Hot take, but with unemployment down, recruiting for the military is also down. We need more bodies for the machine, and what better way than to squeeze poor people and force them into a situation where enlistment starts looking like a good idea?

Unemployment may be down, however underemployment and homelessness is rising. Due to wages not keeping up with the cost of living, we have the need for assistance increasing rather than decreasing and an extreme lack of affordable housing.

Sure, not arguing with ya there. You're preaching to the choir though

Lil devils x:

The reality though is many of those voting Republican do not even realize what the Republicans are actually doing. The reality is the Republicans lie to their constituents about basically everything, so even the poor republicans think the democrats or immigrants are the ones responsible for their problems rather than the republicans. The Republicans have actually managed to convince many of those most harmed by their policies that they are fighting for them and helping them and that is why this only gets worse in Red states. Republicans cut education ensuring that many in their state do not have adequate access to education and instead fill their heads with a ton of nonsense that the people living there actually believe. As long as they can keep the people they represent ignorant of what is really happening they can maintain their control over them.

I have listened to many of these people talk about their problems and the absurd things they believe in regards to government officials, democrats, Obama.. These people have had their heads filled with ridiculousness from right wing media is why they vote the way they do. I see this only getting worse as the Republicans expand their media takeover expansion.

http://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/
https://fair.org/extra/the-rise-of-the-right-wing-media-machine/
http://www.suewilsonreports.com/2010/12/right-wing-hijacks-radio-gop-wins.html
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/02/598916366/sinclair-broadcast-group-forces-nearly-200-station-anchors-to-read-same-script
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/6/17202824/sinclair-tribune-map
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/fake-news-trump-launches-real-news-series-n790241

If everything they see/hear from their local news, radio, family, friends and neighbors are telling them this nonsense, they actually wind up believing it to be true.

Yeah, this is similar in essence to what we experience with the UK political media spin to voting constituents. Leftist media is in short supply and people are convinced that voting against their own interests is the only way to stay "safe" from the ever-approaching herd of scapegoats. Millionaire/billionaire donors have the financial clout to control and sway the narrative to avoid any spotlight pointing upon their responsibility. Although the US right-wing has dropped all pretense now they know they don't need to put the effort in to fool their loyal voters anymore, which makes it rather difficult to highlight the more subtle issues elsewhere. Cannot help but wonder though if the prevailent US mindset - in contrast to other developed nantions at least - of the common 'religiously faithful' has anything to do with contributing to the willingness to trust all kinds of vague nonsene when spoken by the right confident rich white man saying all the right confident rich white words. That and a less regulated education system that embraces creationism cannot help. But essentially am considering the potential barriers and difficulties that may present themselves with communicating to the average working-class US conservative voter they are being manipulated at the cost of their livelihoods and future generations. It seems like it could regularly approach cult deprogramming levels of complicated in some areas. Those media moguls are some of the most insidiously sinister humans to freely walk this Earth. They're like the personified essence of anti-education.

Title is a bit misleading. Their goal isn't to increase homelessness, their plan is to reduce support for low income families in order to reduce the deficit. They don't CARE if it increases homelessness, increasing homelessness is not their intention.

It's heartless, but not malicious.

Abomination:
Title is a bit misleading. Their goal isn't to increase homelessness, their plan is to reduce support for low income families in order to reduce the deficit. They don't CARE if it increases homelessness, increasing homelessness is not their intention.

It's heartless, but not malicious.

Dunno. Certainly, avoiding having to pay as much would be part of it, but there also seems to be an element of wanting to punish poor people.

Abomination:
Title is a bit misleading. Their goal isn't to increase homelessness, their plan is to reduce support for low income families in order to reduce the deficit. They don't CARE if it increases homelessness, increasing homelessness is not their intention.

It's heartless, but not malicious.

It is malicious. They purposely added to the deficit with their tax plan knowing they would come back around to cut social programs to reduce the deficit. When there are plenty of other ways to reduce the deficit (say, raising taxes on those making over 1 million per year) yet they always target the poorest and most vulnerable Americans, it is malicious.

malicious: "characterized by malice prepense."
malice prepense: "wrong or injury purposely done"

Again, not done on purpose. Their intention isn't to increase homelessness. Their intention is to make cuts in places that won't cost them Republican votes. Easiest way to do that? Cut aid programs for people who should just stop being poor.

It's not that they hate others, they just don't care about them.

They don't plan to increase homelessness, they plan on getting re-elected. Homelessness is just an (unfortunate) byproduct.

Abomination:
Again, not done on purpose. Their intention isn't to increase homelessness. Their intention is to make cuts in places that won't cost them Republican votes. Easiest way to do that? Cut aid programs for people who should just stop being poor.

It's not that they hate others, they just don't care about them.

They don't plan to increase homelessness, they plan on getting re-elected. Homelessness is just an (unfortunate) byproduct.

That sounds logical, but I do think there's a lot of vitriol towards disenfranchised citizens there.

Abomination:
Again, not done on purpose. Their intention isn't to increase homelessness. Their intention is to make cuts in places that won't cost them Republican votes. Easiest way to do that? Cut aid programs for people who should just stop being poor.

It's not that they hate others, they just don't care about them.

They don't plan to increase homelessness, they plan on getting re-elected. Homelessness is just an (unfortunate) byproduct.

Nothing you say is wrong, exactly, but it's missing the forest for the trees. This isn't an isolated incident of hurting the poor to help the rich. This isn't a problem that exists in a void. This is happening specifically because the people who cut taxes on the mega-rich need a way to reduce the deficit they claim to be against, and the poor have always been their favorite target. It was always part of the plan when they drafted that abomination of a tax bill.

This is simply another step in a cohesive ideological campaign to keep the bottom 99% of the country where they are, holding the 1% on their broken backs. It's malicious because it's a facet of an ideology that turns most of humanity into a featureless exploitable resource and then strip-mines the country's population, with the only possible result being crippling poverty and a tighter grip of authoritarianism.

TheVampwizimp:

Abomination:
Again, not done on purpose. Their intention isn't to increase homelessness. Their intention is to make cuts in places that won't cost them Republican votes. Easiest way to do that? Cut aid programs for people who should just stop being poor.

It's not that they hate others, they just don't care about them.

They don't plan to increase homelessness, they plan on getting re-elected. Homelessness is just an (unfortunate) byproduct.

Nothing you say is wrong, exactly, but it's missing the forest for the trees. This isn't an isolated incident of hurting the poor to help the rich. This isn't a problem that exists in a void. This is happening specifically because the people who cut taxes on the mega-rich need a way to reduce the deficit they claim to be against, and the poor have always been their favorite target. It was always part of the plan when they drafted that abomination of a tax bill.

This is simply another step in a cohesive ideological campaign to keep the bottom 99% of the country where they are, holding the 1% on their broken backs. It's malicious because it's a facet of an ideology that turns most of humanity into a featureless exploitable resource and then strip-mines the country's population, with the only possible result being crippling poverty and a tighter grip of authoritarianism.

I agree completely that the state of affairs in the United States is exactly as you say it is. But it's not about politicians hating the poor, it's about GOP voters thinking the poor get what they deserve.

In order to resolve the problem one needs to attack it at its source, not its symptoms. The problem is that there is a culture in America that the poor are there because they deserve it. A real punch-down mentality, not realizing that the economy does better when those who are at the bottom receive more. An investment banker buys just as much bread as a supermarket bagger. No laws can change to prevent politicians from proposing uncaring policy that will get them elected by uncaring voters. The uncaring voters have to change.

I fear the only way to make the uncaring voters care is when they themselves start to feel the sting of poverty. Of course they will need to have the wherewithal to recognize that other poor people aren't the problem.

Abomination:
I agree completely that the state of affairs in the United States is exactly as you say it is. But it's not about politicians hating the poor, it's about GOP voters thinking the poor get what they deserve.

Well, yes, that's a popular attitude amongst GOP voter, but that doesn't mean the attitude doesn't exist amongst the GOP they are voting for.

Abomination:
Title is a bit misleading. Their goal isn't to increase homelessness, their plan is to reduce support for low income families in order to reduce the deficit. They don't CARE if it increases homelessness, increasing homelessness is not their intention.

It's heartless, but not malicious.

If you are creating a plan, regardless of other things you wish to do, that results in increasing homelessness, you are creating a plan to increase homelessness. The fact that they do not care that it does makes this worse, not better. Knowing that will be the outcome and still proposing such a plan does involve a certain degree of maliciousness. Knowing that this will be a direct result of their plan means that is one of their intentions.

It would be a different matter if that was an unforeseen issue that arose after the fact, but it is far from that, it was something they understood to be the case while constructing the plan itself. That is indeed malicious to those that will be left to suffer and die on the streets.

Claiming there is no malicious intent here is like when a person decides to murder their spouse to collect insurance money. They only want the money, killing the person in the process was simply something they didn't care about.

Yes, you have to be extremely malicious either way.

Lil devils x:
The reality though is many of those voting Republican do not even realize what the Republicans are actually doing.

And yet I can't help but consider what on earth the Democrats are doing throughout all this that they can't get their point across to many of these voters. Assuming that doing something significant about it even is a point of theirs (which some might query).

I suppose in a way that's precisely the problem the Democrats have. Even when they are in a position to do anything about a lot of this sort of thing, they often don't. And so when someone comes to vote, given the choice between two parties who will both leave them in the same economic dire straits, they may as well vote for the one who says the same sort of things as them on social matters.

Agema:

Lil devils x:
The reality though is many of those voting Republican do not even realize what the Republicans are actually doing.

And yet I can't help but consider what on earth the Democrats are doing throughout all this that they can't get their point across to many of these voters. Assuming that doing something significant about it even is a point of theirs (which some might query).

I suppose in a way that's precisely the problem the Democrats have. Even when they are in a position to do anything about a lot of this sort of thing, they often don't. And so when someone comes to vote, given the choice between two parties who will both leave them in the same economic dire straits, they may as well vote for the one who says the same sort of things as them on social matters.

The sad reality is most Democrats here are " boring". they are not making up insane stories and trying to scare people into thinking they will be rounded up and shackled as the GOP does here. They are not bribing the small town biddies to sit around the local church and diners telling stories about what "them satanic libruls" did. The reality is that the nonsense the GOP makes up sells. It gets people's attention and the people here sadly lap it up hook line and sinker. Democrats have a great deal of difficulty getting through because the small town media, elite organizations, governments, and socialites ARE the GOP stronghold they are up against and the only way to beat it is on the same footing. Most Democrats can't get a foot in the door in that regard and are not willing to bold faced look in someones face and tell them some nonsense like " Trump is a gay Muslim prostitute" like the GOP does about Obama/ Democrats. Seriously, you can't make this stuff up. The stuff the GOP actually says and does around here is insane and I guess the people here have to be insane to believe it.

I think the biggest mistake the Democrats make is they assume people already know what is reality and what is not. They expect people to do their own fact checking and to be able to tell the difference between fact and fiction. They take for granted that there are still so many superstitious people even now that will believe any weird thing and are willing to accept it as a fact over actual facts. People far too often will believe conspiracy over reality and the Democrats for the most part do not partake in that sort of nonsense and see it as something " beneath them" to have to address at all.

Trump uses conspiracy and fiction to create a barrier between what he wants to make up for people to believe and reality so that those who voted for him, trust him will have no connection to reality at all and gets them to the point that it would be very difficult for them to even be able to address reality at all. Not unlike the need to deprogram cult victims.

Agema:

Lil devils x:
The reality though is many of those voting Republican do not even realize what the Republicans are actually doing.

And yet I can't help but consider what on earth the Democrats are doing throughout all this that they can't get their point across to many of these voters. Assuming that doing something significant about it even is a point of theirs (which some might query).

I suppose in a way that's precisely the problem the Democrats have. Even when they are in a position to do anything about a lot of this sort of thing, they often don't. And so when someone comes to vote, given the choice between two parties who will both leave them in the same economic dire straits, they may as well vote for the one who says the same sort of things as them on social matters.

What is there to do? We live in a world where Trump supporters criticize Michelle Wolf for complimenting Sarah Huckabee's eyeshadow and they criticize her for criticizing a woman's appearance. Trump supporters. I know you immediately see the issue here, but for anyone else

Donald Trump does that ALL THE TIME! He is PRAISED for shitting on people and being an offensive sexist prick, but those SAME PEOPLE condemn a WOMAN for making a comment about Huckabee's eyeshadow, THAT IS TEXTBOOK HYPOCRISY!

I guess a man can criticize women, but women cant?

Fuck this country.

Trump Supporters could be put in the gas chamber with the rest of us and probably just point and laugh at us for 'getting what we deserve'.

Saelune:
Donald Trump does that ALL THE TIME! He is PRAISED for shitting on people and being an offensive sexist prick, but those SAME PEOPLE condemn a WOMAN for making a comment about Huckabee's eyeshadow, THAT IS TEXTBOOK HYPOCRISY!

Both are being hypocrites in that scenario.

The Democrats are just the same wolf in another coat of paint. Both parties are shit, one just happens to be slightly less shit than the other. But both are just as corrupt as the day is long. Both will do anything to get reelected, even things that are fundamentally damaging to their supposed public political promises.

The fact the DNC sabotaged Bernie's attempt at the presidency is evidence enough of this. He was the first president willing to commit political suicide in order to shake the system up, to do away with the outright corruption in the system and his own party stabbed him in the back.

When both sides are corrupt, it doesn't matter who wins - both will fuck the lower class in order to get their golden parachute.

Abomination:

Saelune:
Donald Trump does that ALL THE TIME! He is PRAISED for shitting on people and being an offensive sexist prick, but those SAME PEOPLE condemn a WOMAN for making a comment about Huckabee's eyeshadow, THAT IS TEXTBOOK HYPOCRISY!

Both are being hypocrites in that scenario.

The Democrats are just the same wolf in another coat of paint. Both parties are shit, one just happens to be slightly less shit than the other. But both are just as corrupt as the day is long. Both will do anything to get reelected, even things that are fundamentally damaging to their supposed public political promises.

The fact the DNC sabotaged Bernie's attempt at the presidency is evidence enough of this. He was the first president willing to commit political suicide in order to shake the system up, to do away with the outright corruption in the system and his own party stabbed him in the back.

When both sides are corrupt, it doesn't matter who wins - both will fuck the lower class in order to get their golden parachute.

No, they are not. 'Both equally bad' has never been a valid argument, and it DEFINATELY has only weakened as Trump proved people like me right, verbatim.

Yeah, seconding Saelune (welcome back, BTW). Both sides are not equally bad. We don't know what yet, but it's pretty safe to say that Trump will say or do some awful stuff in the next few days that nobody in the Democrats would.

That one side could/should be better does not mean that the other isn't far worse.

Saelune:
No, they are not. 'Both equally bad' has never been a valid argument, and it DEFINATELY has only weakened as Trump proved people like me right, verbatim.

I never said both were equally bad, I said one was just less shit than the other.

But both are corrupt, and as long as both remain corrupt it doesn't matter who is in charge because the corruption is head and shoulders above other issues of importance for the US's political stability.

Because Trump is a complete and utter fuck-knuckle does not excuse the corruption in the DNC.

I hate the Republican party, it represents the worst values and backwards policy the US has to offer. The Democratic party is a far better choice for America's future but they are just as corrupt as their opposition, and give lip service to social issues - window dressing to the actual source of the problem. I want one to fuck off and the other to get its collective shit together.

At the moment BOTH parties are bad for the US, one is just slightly less bad. Neither will attempt the reforms required to actually fix the political problem in the US because both enjoy the benefits of a political career too much, and one of the reforms involves removing those very same benefits.

Abomination:

Saelune:
No, they are not. 'Both equally bad' has never been a valid argument, and it DEFINATELY has only weakened as Trump proved people like me right, verbatim.

I never said both were equally bad, I said one was just less shit than the other.

But both are corrupt, and as long as both remain corrupt it doesn't matter who is in charge because the corruption is head and shoulders above other issues of importance for the US's political stability.

Because Trump is a complete and utter fuck-knuckle does not excuse the corruption in the DNC.

I hate the Republican party, it represents the worst values and backwards policy the US has to offer. The Democratic party is a far better choice for America's future but they are just as corrupt as their opposition, and give lip service to social issues - window dressing to the actual source of the problem. I want one to fuck off and the other to get its collective shit together.

At the moment BOTH parties are bad for the US, one is just slightly less bad. Neither will attempt the reforms required to actually fix the political problem in the US because both enjoy the benefits of a political career too much, and one of the reforms involves removing those very same benefits.

*looks at the Obama administration, then at the Trump administration* You're wrong.

Obama made things better, and that was with tons of Republican interferrance. Trump in less than half the time it took Obama to make things better, not only undid most of the good Obama did, (and took credit for the good that remained), but made things worse than BUSH DID!

Obama proved you wrong.

Saelune:
*looks at the Obama administration, then at the Trump administration* You're wrong.

Obama made things better, and that was with tons of Republican interferrance. Trump in less than half the time it took Obama to make things better, not only undid most of the good Obama did, (and took credit for the good that remained), but made things worse than BUSH DID!

Obama proved you wrong.

And then the DNC proved me right by making Clinton their candidate.

That is the current state of the DNC. Backroom dealing, corrupt, and incapable of change.

Outside, stable, and functioning democratic nations look at the US and balk how a country that prides itself on being a shining beacon of freedom and democracy can operate with such a corrupt political system.

The Democrats are the only party that can fix the complete mess the US is in, but they need to get their shit together rather than waste their time calling the buffoon a buffoon. Those who know it don't need to be convinced, and those that aren't convinced will never be.

Abomination:

Saelune:
*looks at the Obama administration, then at the Trump administration* You're wrong.

Obama made things better, and that was with tons of Republican interferrance. Trump in less than half the time it took Obama to make things better, not only undid most of the good Obama did, (and took credit for the good that remained), but made things worse than BUSH DID!

Obama proved you wrong.

And then the DNC proved me right by making Clinton their candidate.

That is the current state of the DNC. Backroom dealing, corrupt, and incapable of change.

Outside, stable, and functioning democratic nations look at the US and balk how a country that prides itself on being a shining beacon of freedom and democracy can operate with such a corrupt political system.

The Democrats are the only party that can fix the complete mess the US is in, but they need to get their shit together rather than waste their time calling the buffoon a buffoon. Those who know it don't need to be convinced, and those that aren't convinced will never be.

Clinton? Oh, you mean 8 more years of Obama? Worse case scenario, we stay stuck in 2016 for 8 years. Better than this weird mishmash of the 20s-80's we got going right now. Ever wonder what it would have been like if the Cold War happened in 1938 with an 80's slumlord businessman in charge? I didn't, but now I know.

Democrats have their hands tied. As long as things like the EC exist, and the like...Hypocrisy isnt a good enough word for Republicans anymore. Seriously, Republican is a synonym for hypocrite now. Literally every criticism Republicans have against Democrats/the left is applicable even more to themselves... (except when the criticism is that the left is not bigoted or gun-loving enough, since thats a good thing about the left)

Saelune:
Clinton? Oh, you mean 8 more years of Obama?

No. 8 more years of corruption and lobby groups holding the real sway over the country.

Abomination:

Saelune:
Clinton? Oh, you mean 8 more years of Obama?

No. 8 more years of corruption and lobby groups holding the real sway over the country.

8 less years of Nazis marching freely, 8 less years of no healthcare for tons of people, 8 less years of Russian sway, 8 less years of a rapist in office, 8 less years of working towards a fascist government, 8 less years of hopelessness. Well, 4. I took Trump's election hard enough the first time. I honestly think I will kill myself if he somehow not only makes it to a second election, but wins it.

If you really appreciated how bad Trump and Republicans are, you would not be wasting so much effort bashing Clinton and Democrats. Save it for when they actually are the problem.

Saelune:

Abomination:

Saelune:
Clinton? Oh, you mean 8 more years of Obama?

No. 8 more years of corruption and lobby groups holding the real sway over the country.

8 less years of Nazis marching freely, 8 less years of no healthcare for tons of people, 8 less years of Russian sway, 8 less years of a rapist in office, 8 less years of working towards a fascist government, 8 less years of hopelessness. Well, 4. I took Trump's election hard enough the first time. I honestly think I will kill myself if he somehow not only makes it to a second election, but wins it.

If you really appreciated how bad Trump and Republicans are, you would not be wasting so much effort bashing Clinton and Democrats. Save it for when they actually are the problem.

They will continue to be a problem while they're also corrupt at the same time. It's a lot easier to not have any scandals when you're not dirty.

Just because the Republicans are shit doesn't make the Dems less bad.

What if I told you that the reason why the Republicans are so horrible is because of the same thing the Democrats suffer from?

The Republicans are bad because they are corrupt as well. Both parties are corrupt and it's the reason why they make stupid decisions or take half-measures to resolving genuine issues with the country.

The Democrats are less (at least I think) corrupt than the Republicans. If the Republicans were somehow able to remove their corruption I'd prefer them over the Democrats.

I've already established that the Democrats would be better than the Republicans, but they're still both bad.

Corruption and lobbying is why the United States is in such a shit place. That's the root of all its present problems. Neither party is showing any genuine interest in removing that cancer, so both are complicit in the state of things.

Should the Democrats push hard for the removal of corruption the Republicans will be forced to do so as well. But both are happy with this race to the bottom.

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