NFL enacts ban on kneeling during Anthem

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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/23/nfl-bans-on-field-kneeling-during-the-national-anthem.html

I wish he was as ok about screwing over the 2nd Amendment as he was the 1st.

(alternative title, Trump is a fascist part 3/NFL is fascist part 1)

It's not Trumps decision. He may have highlighted the issue, but at the end of the day it's a business decision. The NFL decided it was being hurt by all this, and chose to deal with it.

The aim is generally to keep sport free of politics. Look at Pep Guardiola getting done for his Catalonian yellow ribbon, for instance. The NFL players have been given the option to remain in the dressing room for the anthem, which is essentially a protest in itself.

I don't really see the issue.

Catnip1024:
The NFL decided it was being hurt by all this, and chose to deal with it.

This is pretty much the beginning and end of it. The people who support the NFL financially don't tend to be those who support the protest, and they also tend to want politics out of their entertainment (which is, incidentally, why entertainment that's apolitical tends to do far better then that which is political). It's bad for the bottom line, numbers are down significantly despite other sports programming setting records (so there's no argument that the cord being cut has anything to do with it). Add to that the fact the XFL is coming back as a proper, simplified and cleaned up competitor, and they're probably sweating bullets. They fired one of their more controversial commentators the day after McMan announced the XFL's return, so they aren't just taking the change in audience attitude passively.

That all being said, as progressives have beaten into us over the past 5 years, it's not censorship when a private company does it, not that that argument would even apply here since this isn't what is legally a public forum (what Twitter now is due to yesterday's ruling), but the employees of a private business making political statements on the clock. Not exactly 1st amendment problems.

This is another case of the boy who cried fascist.

They may have banned kneeling, but they haven't banned [insert next form of nonviolent protesting that conservatives claim to support until minorities do it]

Then they'll ban that and we can move onto the next thing

undeadsuitor:
They may have banned kneeling, but they haven't banned [insert next form of nonviolent protesting that conservatives claim to support until minorities do it]

Then they'll ban that and we can move onto the next thing

It's actually amazing how tolerant the NFL has been about employees protesting on the job, and as an insult to their customers no less. It's another case of entertainers having far more leeway with what they can get away with in regards to unprofessional conduct compared to the rest of society. I know I can't get away with protesting on company time while insulting our customers.

Zontar:
also tend to want politics out of their entertainment (which is, incidentally, why entertainment that's apolitical tends to do far better then that which is political). .

I'd have an easier time buying that if the people who kept saying it didn't also keep quoting Georges Orwell and Carlin at me. Seems like people just want politics they don't like out of entertainment.

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:
They may have banned kneeling, but they haven't banned [insert next form of nonviolent protesting that conservatives claim to support until minorities do it]

Then they'll ban that and we can move onto the next thing

It's actually amazing how tolerant the NFL has been about employees protesting on the job, and as an insult to their customers no less. It's another case of entertainers having far more leeway with what they can get away with in regards to unprofessional conduct compared to the rest of society. I know I can't get away with protesting on company time while insulting our customers.

How is kneeling insulting customers

Zontar:

snip

More like "compared with the non-unionized people". Speaking of, this ban was made without consulting the player's union.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nflpa-issues-statement-in-response-to-nfls-new-national-anthem-policy/

I bet $5 that whole teams will start to kneel in the near future (that's how these things usually go when you use authority to suppress protests). Shit is going to get interesting.

CheetoDust:

Zontar:
also tend to want politics out of their entertainment (which is, incidentally, why entertainment that's apolitical tends to do far better then that which is political). .

I'd have an easier time buying that if the people who kept saying it didn't also keep quoting Georges Orwell and Carlin at me. Seems like people just want politics they don't like out of entertainment.

Orwell is far more known then his work has been read, which is why so many people seem to simultaneously quote him while also pushing the very politics he opposed, being one of the most fierce critics of socialism despite being a socialist himself. The numbers simply don't lie, while politics in entertainment has its place, it's not as popular as just trying to entertain, which isn't a surprise given the 40/30/30 split that exists in society between the right, middle and left. Anything that takes a political stance will inherently be cutting off a massive part of their potential market, which is why Fox News is the largest news outlet. It's the only one aimed at the right, competing with six or seven that are fighting for the left, all while a full third of the country has basically no news outlet trying to cater to them.

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:
They may have banned kneeling, but they haven't banned [insert next form of nonviolent protesting that conservatives claim to support until minorities do it]

Then they'll ban that and we can move onto the next thing

It's actually amazing how tolerant the NFL has been about employees protesting on the job, and as an insult to their customers no less. It's another case of entertainers having far more leeway with what they can get away with in regards to unprofessional conduct compared to the rest of society. I know I can't get away with protesting on company time while insulting our customers.

How is kneeling insulting customers

Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:
They may have banned kneeling, but they haven't banned [insert next form of nonviolent protesting that conservatives claim to support until minorities do it]

Then they'll ban that and we can move onto the next thing

It's actually amazing how tolerant the NFL has been about employees protesting on the job, and as an insult to their customers no less. It's another case of entertainers having far more leeway with what they can get away with in regards to unprofessional conduct compared to the rest of society. I know I can't get away with protesting on company time while insulting our customers.

The NFL employs the players? I thought that was the teams.

The NFL is a governing body. They definitely can make this decision. I dislike how they are forcing players not to be patriotic. I also assuming they make them stay in the dressing rooms to make them seem unpatriotic to NFL supporters, thus making them seem bad.

Also, WWJD? What would Jordan (Peterson) Do? This is a clear violation of the first amendment perpetrated by a private company, similar to his situation. I'll wait and see if he rides in to defend the teams and players.

But honestly, how is this decision not going to negatively financially impact them too? Either decision will lead to loss of supporters.

CaitSeith:

More like "compared with the non-unionized people". Speaking of, this ban was made without consulting the player's union.

As a guy who's unionised, no, not in a place that doesn't have the American attitude towards unions. Just because your country treats unions as a ticking time bomb for destroying companies, doesn't mean the rest of us do... as much anyway.

I bet $5 that whole teams will start to kneel in the near future (that's how these things usually go when you use authority to suppress protests). Shit is going to get interesting.

Oh yeah, that'll work out real well. What already happened was enough of a punch to the gut for the NFL so far, I'd honestly love to see the damage the entire player base flipping off their audience like that would have. Not that I think they'd be that stupid, I know American unions care nothing for the workers they represent, but I seriously doubt even a quarter of players would go along with this since most are smart enough to understand where their money comes from. But if they do go for it, well up here we always laugh when our hokey players pretend to be oh so exploited by the managers, since any dispute between players and managers is a dispute between the rich and richer that only harms the customer.

Here's hoping the XFL kills the NFL and shows us once again that regressives lose you money, 100% of the time, every time.

trunkage:
I also assuming they make them stay in the dressing rooms to make them seem unpatriotic to NFL supporters, thus making them seem bad.

Insulting the nation that allowed you to, through your abilities, become a well off celebrity for being able to play a game well, is in no universe patriotic. A selfish expression of one's right to be an asshole, sure, but not patriotic, and on company time, at demonstrable cost to the company, it's amazing the NFL has been this tolerant given most would punish the individual in question without second thought.

Also, WWJD? What would Jordan (Peterson) Do? This is a clear violation of the first amendment perpetrated by a private company, similar to his situation. I'll wait and see if he rides in to defend the teams and players.

Peterson doesn't push his political and social views while he's on the clock, no honest comparison can be made.

But honestly, how is this decision not going to negatively financially impact them too? Either decision will lead to loss of supporters.

Given how regressives don't tend to watch the NFL, while the conservatives who take offence to this crap do, it's honestly amazing it took this long to happen since there is a very objective difference between pandering to one group, and pandering to another, in terms of outcome. The NFL, like many companies, fell for the myth that there's some vast untapped progressive market out there, and like all others learned the hard way no such market exists, and as with others learned this by alienating their existing market, and now they're trying to win them back. While it probably won't happen, full recovery with stunts like this aren't outside of the realm of possibility. Continuing to allow them to protest while on the clock, however, is unrealistic for them to even retain the current status quo, which is already in a bad situation.

Zontar:

Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.

So you think the athletes who protest hate their country

On what grounds?

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.

So you think the athletes who protest hate their country

On what grounds?

On the grounds that the reason they're protesting is that they hate their country. There's really no way to see a rich asshole hating on their country and not interpret it as said rich asshole hating their country.

undeadsuitor:

So you think the athletes who protest hate their country

On what grounds?

Not being supportive enough of white, right wing politics is about all you need to be called a traitor by US conservatives.

I don't give a shit. Football is a dumb sport for even dumber people. And it's boring as diarrhea. It exists solely for advertisements. The actual game is approximately 10 minutes long without ads. It shouldn't even be called a sport, since sport is supposed to keep you healthy, yet most football players end up with severe brain trauma and die in their 50's. So kneel or don't kneel, I don't give a flying fuck.

Zontar:
On the grounds that the reason they're protesting is that they hate their country. There's really no way to see a rich asshole hating on their country and not interpret it as said rich asshole hating their country.

It's been a while since I saw such a clear example of circular logic.

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.

So you think the athletes who protest hate their country

On what grounds?

On the grounds that the reason they're protesting is that they hate their country. There's really no way to see a rich asshole hating on their country and not interpret it as said rich asshole hating their country.

And why do you think they hate their country

Agema:

undeadsuitor:

So you think the athletes who protest hate their country

On what grounds?

Not being supportive enough of white, right wing politics is about all you need to be called a traitor by US conservatives.

Right and allowing Russians to help you get elected and wanting to turn over your nations cyber security to them makes you an ardent patriot! LMAO

Catnip1024:
It's not Trumps decision. He may have highlighted the issue, but at the end of the day it's a business decision. The NFL decided it was being hurt by all this, and chose to deal with it.

The aim is generally to keep sport free of politics. Look at Pep Guardiola getting done for his Catalonian yellow ribbon, for instance. The NFL players have been given the option to remain in the dressing room for the anthem, which is essentially a protest in itself.

I don't really see the issue.

He did not just highlight the issue, he put pressure on them to do so and called on others to put pressure on them to do so but hey, he has no problem using his position in government to impact his businesses and others. If he had he would not be promoting his hotels and golf courses to foreign governments for profits directly competing with privately owned businesses and personally attacking businesses and competition and using his position to put pressure on businesses such as Amazon because he disagrees with their CEO's politics.

Trump has no intention of keeping sports free of politics, he just wants to attack anything he disagrees with and wants them to do so as well. He wants the sports to promote his politics and no one else's that is the issue. He sees anything and everything as his tools for self promotion, including sports.

Trump only wanted to become President to have more power to increase his own wealth and to attack his opposition. Though, I do not think anyone has even remotely thought that he wanted to be president for the people or country, it has never been anything other than his expansion of his own power and wealth, nothing more. That should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has ever listened to anything the man has said.

Zontar:
Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.

Only right-wingers paint the kneeling protests and anyone else who doesn't stand for the national anthem as people "hating" their country. I don't hate the US, I'm starting to though. But I won't stand for the flag or the anthem, not out of spite, but because respect has to be earned and the US hasn't earned it from me. There are legitimate reasons for not showing blind patriotism, even if you refuse to acknowledge them.

Dr. Thrax:

Zontar:
Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.

Only right-wingers paint the kneeling protests and anyone else who doesn't stand for the national anthem as people "hating" their country. I don't hate the US, I'm starting to though. But I won't stand for the flag or the anthem, not out of spite, but because respect has to be earned and the US hasn't earned it from me. There are legitimate reasons for not showing blind patriotism, even if you refuse to acknowledge them.

Alright so don't stand, not very difficult. Kneeling is actively disrespectful, it's going out of one's way to be disrespectful towards the anthem.

I do think it's hilarious that this is another issue we're seeing radicals try to push 85% of society into being right wing though, since this isn't a right/left thing given liberals at least understand why it's disrespectful even if they are apathetic or even agree. The "it's only conservative" types are, ironically enough, only regressives.

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:

So you think the athletes who protest hate their country

On what grounds?

On the grounds that the reason they're protesting is that they hate their country. There's really no way to see a rich asshole hating on their country and not interpret it as said rich asshole hating their country.

And why do you think they hate their country

Why do you think explicitly hating one's country isn't hating one's country?

Honestly I'd ask why people in the US who hate the country and don't believe in borders don't just move to someplace else since no progressive who stays in the US is anything other then a hypocrite, but given the Blaxit types it seems people who hate the US are finally starting to do that.

undeadsuitor:
They may have banned kneeling, but they haven't banned [insert next form of nonviolent protesting that conservatives claim to support until minorities do it]

I bet if the owners banned players from sending a memo to all their co-workers about how women are inherently inferior the right would be out of their minds with rage right now.

Zontar:
Why do you think explicitly hating one's country isn't hating one's country?

You have three choices here:

1. You're not intelligent enough to understand the reasons behind these athletes kneeling,
2. You've been brainwashed by the alt-right,
3. You're simply lying.

And yes, these are logically the only options since it doesn't take a lot of brain power at all to understand the reason for their kneeling, especially since they explained it over and over again, and it has absolutely nothing to do with hating the country.

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

On the grounds that the reason they're protesting is that they hate their country. There's really no way to see a rich asshole hating on their country and not interpret it as said rich asshole hating their country.

And why do you think they hate their country

Why do you think explicitly hating one's country isn't hating one's country?

Honestly I'd ask why people in the US who hate the country and don't believe in borders don't just move to someplace else since no progressive who stays in the US is anything other then a hypocrite, but given the Blaxit types it seems people who hate the US are finally starting to do that.

Zontar, why do you hate canada so much?

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

On the grounds that the reason they're protesting is that they hate their country. There's really no way to see a rich asshole hating on their country and not interpret it as said rich asshole hating their country.

And why do you think they hate their country

Why do you think explicitly hating one's country isn't hating one's country?

Honestly I'd ask why people in the US who hate the country and don't believe in borders don't just move to someplace else since no progressive who stays in the US is anything other then a hypocrite, but given the Blaxit types it seems people who hate the US are finally starting to do that.

But what specifically do they hate about their country?

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

undeadsuitor:

And why do you think they hate their country

Why do you think explicitly hating one's country isn't hating one's country?

Honestly I'd ask why people in the US who hate the country and don't believe in borders don't just move to someplace else since no progressive who stays in the US is anything other then a hypocrite, but given the Blaxit types it seems people who hate the US are finally starting to do that.

But what specifically do they hate about their country?

Apparently not wanting the nations citizens to be needlessly killed on US soil is hating one's country.

BreakfastMan:

Zontar, why do you hate canada so much?

It's trying to force my province, against its will, to follow it into the death spiral that the English world is in of trying to adopt all the negative qualities that Brazil has with nothing of redeeming quality to justify it, all against the will of the population of the country.

undeadsuitor:

But what specifically do they hate about their country?

They seem to hate the fact they're "oppressed" from the looks of it, really hard to get a clear message out of such people, and despite what Adam Jensen tells himself, taking the stance of "I hate this country, but love its people" is still hating the country, and ironically enough there isn't much of anywhere that's better for blacks to live then in the US. So long as one doesn't choose to live the gangster life style, it's probably the best place for a black person to live. Which is probably why Africans from Africa want to move to the US instead of their home countries.

Lil devils x:
Apparently not wanting the nations citizens to be needlessly killed on US soil is hating one's country.

Daily reminder that the less then 1% of blacks killed in the US are killed by police and even the most liberal estimates put 95% of blacks killed by police as legally justified acts, that the "hard on crime" policies are put in place because of black voters demanding it, and that the war on drugs was pushed by the Black Caucus, and that anyone denying these facts is lying for political reasons.

Black Lives Matter, but only in the rare case it's taken by a cop, it would seem.

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

Zontar, why do you hate canada so much?

It's trying to force my province, against its will, to follow it into the death spiral that the English world is in of trying to adopt all the negative qualities that Brazil has with nothing of redeeming quality to justify it, all against the will of the population of the country.

Are you just throwing out nonsense to distract everyone? This sentence makes no god-damn sense. I really think you need to stop reading The Daily Stormer, dude.

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

Zontar, why do you hate canada so much?

It's trying to force my province, against its will, to follow it into the death spiral that the English world is in of trying to adopt all the negative qualities that Brazil has with nothing of redeeming quality to justify it, all against the will of the population of the country.

undeadsuitor:

But what specifically do they hate about their country?

They seem to hate the fact they're "oppressed" from the looks of it, really hard to get a clear message out of such people, and despite what Adam Jensen tells himself, taking the stance of "I hate this country, but love its people" is still hating the country, and ironically enough there isn't much of anywhere that's better for blacks to live then in the US. So long as one doesn't choose to live the gangster life style, it's probably the best place for a black person to live. Which is probably why Africans from Africa want to move to the US instead of their home countries.

Why do you think they think they're oppressed

Zontar:

Kneeling is actively disrespectful

So... when Zod said 'Kneel before Zod!', he was asking people to shit in his cornflakes?

BreakfastMan:

Are you just throwing out nonsense to distract everyone dude? This sentence makes no god-damn sense.

Are you denying my lived experienced as a member of a recognised minority group?

EDIT:

I really think you need to stop reading The Daily Stormer, dude.

I think you need to stop reading The Weekly Gulag

undeadsuitor:

Why do you think they think they're oppressed

I think they think they're oppressed because they claim to be oppressed despite there being no metric by which that claim holds any weight. As Kenye West has pointed out (though not particularly eloquently) the oppression and slavery of the black community in the US is a state of mind, which is probably why successful blacks tend to hate the attempts to perpetuate this cultural outlook that holds the community down. Like we see with Morgan Freeman, Jay Z and pretty much every prominent black republican.

Baffle2:

Zontar:

Kneeling is actively disrespectful

So... when Zod said 'Kneel before Zod!', he was asking people to shit in his cornflakes?

Yes that is exactly what he was doing and a perfect analogy for what people who explicitly intend to disrespect the anthem are doing.

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

Are you just throwing out nonsense to distract everyone dude? This sentence makes no god-damn sense.

Are you denying my lived experienced as a member of a recognised minority group?

I am saying I cannot parse what you mean from your response, my dude. All I am getting is that you don't think well of Brazil, for some unexplained reason. I am trying to be patient with you here, as your avatar says I should be.

Zontar:

I think they think they're oppressed because they claim to be oppressed despite there being no metric by which that claim holds any weight. As Kenye West has pointed out (though not particularly eloquently) the oppression and slavery of the black community in the US is a state of mind, which is probably why successful blacks tend to hate the attempts to perpetuate this cultural outlook that holds the community down. Like we see with Morgan Freeman, Jay Z and pretty much every prominent black republican.

So the success of a few negates the suffering of others?

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