NFL enacts ban on kneeling during Anthem

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To be honest, the whole idea of a national anthem at a sporting event is insane to begin with. Even as a kid, I found it strange that we were attaching something so important to something so trivial.

But anyway, private club and all that, their own rules. If the National-throwey-ball-league wants to act like racist dicks, it will not affect me in any way since I think I would rather spend the 3 hours up to my armpits in sheep manure than actually watch a football game.

Zontar:

Lil devils x:
Apparently not wanting the nations citizens to be needlessly killed on US soil is hating one's country.

Daily reminder that the less then 1% of blacks killed in the US are killed by police and even the most liberal estimates put 95% of blacks killed by police as legally justified acts, that the "hard on crime" policies are put in place because of black voters demanding it, and that the war on drugs was pushed by the Black Caucus, and that anyone denying these facts is lying for political reasons.

Black Lives Matter, but only in the rare case it's taken by a cop, it would seem.

You are making the mistake of thinking this is an " either or" situation. It is not. Simply because they are protesting Government sanctioned violence, that does not mean they are "for violence in their own community". They are not, never have been and have made that pretty clear. People being upset that they are not protesting everything else that is happening and making false assumptions about what they are for or against does not mean that is what they are " for or against". they just want the police killings to stop. Period.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/what-we-believe/

Claiming they are promoting violence or "pro black on black crime" or violence in the black community is blatantly false and misguided. Plenty of Nations have already figured out how to resolve issues without the need to kill it's citizens. The US can too.

The issue of black on black violence is a separate issue that should be addressed as well, but to claim that they should be doing "anything else but protesting state sponsored killing" is not helping resolve either issue, it is only an attempt to stop them from solving anything.

Zontar:
-Snorp-

God, you sound more 'Murican than you do anything else I almost can't believe you're Canadian.

I'd ask if you actually stopped to think about why people were kneeling during the anthem, or what even started it, but it's obvious you didn't and won't. I'll put it simply.

Unarmed black people were being shot by cops and the cops were getting away with murder.

Kneeling was to protest this very thing and yet right-wingers/conservatives went apeshit "HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE ANTHEM/AMERICA/OUR SOLDIERS" as if a fucking song matters more than people slaughtered in cold blood by the very institution we rely on and expect to save us if we need it.

jademunky:
To be honest, the whole idea of a national anthem at a sporting event is insane to begin with. Even as a kid, I found it strange that we were attaching something so important to something so trivial.

Honestly I wish it'd just be played at actual important events or something. There were times I wished I was deaf while I was in school because the first thing that happened every goddamn day when we got in our classrooms was standing for the pledge of allegiance - and in elementary school it was both the pledge and the anthem, which we had to recite!

This forced patriotism is utter bullshit.

BreakfastMan:

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

Are you just throwing out nonsense to distract everyone dude? This sentence makes no god-damn sense.

Are you denying my lived experienced as a member of a recognised minority group?

I am saying I cannot parse what you mean from your response, my dude. All I am getting is that you don't think well of Brazil, for some unexplained reason. I am trying to be patient with you here, as your avatar says I should be.

My problem: Canada, like many English speaking nations, has a government trying to turn us into another Brazil

Why I don't like that: Brazil is a shithole, it has systemic corruption at all levels (they recently had a major political purge because of that), there's massive levels of poverty and income inequality (even the US looks amazing by comparison), the crime rate is abysmal and due to said crime rate and other social issues the police has been militarised by necessity.

You know how a lot of people complain about the militarisation of the police? Well part of the reason is foresight, since if you're going to emulate a country that has one because it needs one, you're going to need one eventually as well.

undeadsuitor:

So the success of a few negates the suffering of others?

The unwillingness to abandon cultural norms and practices and outlooks and attitudes that create and perpetuate suffering is the problem. Someone who is raised to be helpless, who in adulthood believes themselves to be helpless, will die helpless.

Dr. Thrax:

Unarmed black people were being shot by cops and the cops were getting away with murder.

Yes there are a few examples of that, just like there's examples of criminals getting away with it due to problems with the process (OJ comes to mind), the problem is BLM pretends that it's the norm, when the reality is that it numbers at best a few dozen per year. Yes, that's still more then it should be, but it isn't a national crisis, fuck it isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the gang war. A 1% improvement of the casualties from that, literally 1% would dwarf the complete eradication of cops murdering an innocent black person. Yet instead of using the limited time, resources and energy trying to and actually fix a massive problem in the black community, something that by comparison isn't worthy of note due to is massively smaller scope gets all the attention.

There's a reason why liberals and conservatives didn't like BLM right from the start and still don't, not that it matters since after the Chicago kidnapping the movement basically fissiled out and lost all steam.

Zontar:

My problem: Canada, like many English speaking nations, has a government trying to turn us into another Brazil

Why I don't like that: Brazil is a shithole, it has systemic corruption at all levels (they recently had a major political purge because of that), there's massive levels of poverty and income inequality (even the US looks amazing by comparison), the crime rate is abysmal and due to said crime rate and other social issues the police has been militarised by necessity.

And there's other reasons for this beyond "SOSHULIZUM" if you'd bother looking beyond that.

Dr. Thrax:

Zontar:

My problem: Canada, like many English speaking nations, has a government trying to turn us into another Brazil

Why I don't like that: Brazil is a shithole, it has systemic corruption at all levels (they recently had a major political purge because of that), there's massive levels of poverty and income inequality (even the US looks amazing by comparison), the crime rate is abysmal and due to said crime rate and other social issues the police has been militarised by necessity.

And there's other reasons for this beyond "SOSHULIZUM" if you'd bother looking beyond that.

I didn't state the reason was socialism, before recently the Scandinavian nations managed to do socialism without trying to emulate Brazil (and save for Sweden, they still do)

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

Zontar:

Are you denying my lived experienced as a member of a recognised minority group?

I am saying I cannot parse what you mean from your response, my dude. All I am getting is that you don't think well of Brazil, for some unexplained reason. I am trying to be patient with you here, as your avatar says I should be.

My problem: Canada, like many English speaking nations, has a government trying to turn us into another Brazil

Why I don't like that: Brazil is a shithole, it has systemic corruption at all levels (they recently had a major political purge because of that), there's massive levels of poverty and income inequality (even the US looks amazing by comparison), the crime rate is abysmal and due to said crime rate and other social issues the police has been militarised by necessity.

You know how a lot of people complain about the militarisation of the police? Well part of the reason is foresight, since if you're going to emulate a country that has one because it needs one, you're going to need one eventually as well.

Ah, so it is the government of Canada that is trying to turn Canada into Brazil, somehow, for some reason. And somehow, all the governments of all english speaking countries are also trying to turn their countries into brazil, somehow, for some reason. That makes sense.

Let me guess: This is all the fault of those damned SJWs?

Zontar:

Yes that is exactly what he was doing and a perfect analogy for what people who explicitly intend to disrespect the anthem are doing.

No, he was explicitly demanding respect. You must have seen a different film to the rest of us. Do you have, like, a dubbed version of the film in which all the actors sounds suspiciously like you?

Zontar:
why successful blacks tend to hate the attempts to perpetuate this cultural outlook that holds the community down.

Apart from successful black footballers, evidently.

Zontar:

The unwillingness to abandon cultural norms and practices and outlooks and attitudes that create and perpetuate suffering is the problem. Someone who is raised to be helpless, who in adulthood believes themselves to be helpless, will die helpless.

So what you're saying that the plight of the unfortunate is more a moral failing than a societal one.

If it's a moral failing then, why haven't you succeeded more in your life?

undeadsuitor:

If it's a moral failing then, why haven't you succeeded more in your life?

I am literally (new definition) on the phone to Paddy Power to find out what odds I'll get on the answer being women, blacks, or Muslims. They're hedging though, because they think the whole thing is a ruse. They said, and I quote, 'Fuck off, this guy is basically a parody of an internet nutjob'. Needless to say, I was stunned by their rudeness and I immediately hung up. Then I called back and went for a quid each way.

Jesus Christ, all of you people are such whiny edgelords. The NFL is a private org, it can do what it wants; does that mean that they should tell their players what they can and can't do in this matter? Probably not, and people are free to interpret that as they see fit. Honestly, this is hardly an issue given more recent problems and events that we're facing in the country.

This isn't about Trump being a Nazi, though Saelune saw to making that point immediately, surprising absolutely nobody. People in general complaining about Americans disliking minorities or some such bullshit, then somehow we manage to bring it to Black Lives Matter. Why can't this site just fucking die already?

EquestrianGeneral:
Why can't this site just fucking die already?

Apparently it's powered by pointless whining. Extra life!

Baffle2:

undeadsuitor:

If it's a moral failing then, why haven't you succeeded more in your life?

I am literally (new definition) on the phone to Paddy Power to find out what odds I'll get on the answer being women, blacks, or Muslims. They're hedging though, because they think the whole thing is a ruse. They said, and I quote, 'Fuck off, this guy is basically a parody of an internet nutjob'. Needless to say, I was stunned by their rudeness and I immediately hung up. Then I called back and went for a quid each way.

having your jobs stolen by immigrants is a state of mind

I am still very confused as how kneeling, a sign of supplication and deference in almost every culture that exists, is seen as disrespectful.

Seriously, I don't get it. I mean the NFL can police it's teams how they see fit, but this comes across as asinine for my cash.

Zontar:

trunkage:
I also assuming they make them stay in the dressing rooms to make them seem unpatriotic to NFL supporters, thus making them seem bad.

Insulting the nation that allowed you to, through your abilities, become a well off celebrity for being able to play a game well, is in no universe patriotic. A selfish expression of one's right to be an asshole, sure, but not patriotic, and on company time, at demonstrable cost to the company, it's amazing the NFL has been this tolerant given most would punish the individual in question without second thought.

Take it as an insult if you want. Their intention to to highlight particular institutions and their grievance with them. You know, like you were complaining about the Canadian government. They don't hate the country, just like you don't hate yours.

Also, WWJD? What would Jordan (Peterson) Do? This is a clear violation of the first amendment perpetrated by a private company, similar to his situation. I'll wait and see if he rides in to defend the teams and players.

Peterson doesn't push his political and social views while he's on the clock, no honest comparison can be made.[/quote] strongly disagree. But then I see him as an anti-intellectual who doesn't want he students to think for themselves and has said so in the past.

EquestrianGeneral:
Jesus Christ, all of you people are such whiny edgelords. The NFL is a private org, it can do what it wants; does that mean that they should tell their players what they can and can't do in this matter? Probably not, and people are free to interpret that as they see fit. Honestly, this is hardly an issue given more recent problems and events that we're facing in the country.

This isn't about Trump being a Nazi, though Saelune saw to making that point immediately, surprising absolutely nobody. People in general complaining about Americans disliking minorities or some such bullshit, then somehow we manage to bring it to Black Lives Matter. Why can't this site just fucking die already?

American disliking minorities? Maybe Republicans. They think Democrats love them. Unless the Dems aren't American too.

Saelune is drawing connections between Trump and the possibility that he asked the NFL to make this change as a benefit to Trump, thus circumventing that pesky 1st amendment. It maybe a stretch. But then this investigation into him and his track record leaves it as a possibility in my mind.

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

Zontar:

Are you denying my lived experienced as a member of a recognised minority group?

I am saying I cannot parse what you mean from your response, my dude. All I am getting is that you don't think well of Brazil, for some unexplained reason. I am trying to be patient with you here, as your avatar says I should be.

My problem: Canada, like many English speaking nations, has a government trying to turn us into another Brazil

Why I don't like that: Brazil is a shithole, it has systemic corruption at all levels (they recently had a major political purge because of that), there's massive levels of poverty and income inequality (even the US looks amazing by comparison), the crime rate is abysmal and due to said crime rate and other social issues the police has been militarised by necessity.

You know how a lot of people complain about the militarisation of the police? Well part of the reason is foresight, since if you're going to emulate a country that has one because it needs one, you're going to need one eventually as well.

undeadsuitor:

So the success of a few negates the suffering of others?

The unwillingness to abandon cultural norms and practices and outlooks and attitudes that create and perpetuate suffering is the problem. Someone who is raised to be helpless, who in adulthood believes themselves to be helpless, will die helpless.

youtube=qKpEl9jJ4dA

Hey stop shitting on Brazil... we won the World Cup 5 times (this is about football, right?).

undeadsuitor:

Baffle2:

undeadsuitor:

If it's a moral failing then, why haven't you succeeded more in your life?

I am literally (new definition) on the phone to Paddy Power to find out what odds I'll get on the answer being women, blacks, or Muslims. They're hedging though, because they think the whole thing is a ruse. They said, and I quote, 'Fuck off, this guy is basically a parody of an internet nutjob'. Needless to say, I was stunned by their rudeness and I immediately hung up. Then I called back and went for a quid each way.

having your jobs stolen by immigrants is a state of mind

People who blame immigrants and not capitalism aren't really understanding what's going on.

Seanchaidh:

undeadsuitor:

Baffle2:

I am literally (new definition) on the phone to Paddy Power to find out what odds I'll get on the answer being women, blacks, or Muslims. They're hedging though, because they think the whole thing is a ruse. They said, and I quote, 'Fuck off, this guy is basically a parody of an internet nutjob'. Needless to say, I was stunned by their rudeness and I immediately hung up. Then I called back and went for a quid each way.

having your jobs stolen by immigrants is a state of mind

People who blame immigrants and not capitalism aren't really understanding what's going on.

Some people are just angry and want jobs given to them rather than they actually have to work for it. They tend to find scapegoats (e.g, immigrants). I wouldn't blame everything on Capitalism.

trunkage:
Some people are just angry and want jobs given to them rather than they actually have to work for it. They tend to find scapegoats (e.g, immigrants). I wouldn't blame everything on Capitalism.

All people are just given jobs.

Like even when I was opening my business, I had insurance, rules, regs, financing constraints, or the simple fact that I had to convince people to give me money. Also, I don't need to work for a living anymore, I make my money syphoning off the productivity of others. You can totally blame capitalism for people having to work as hard as they do to just survive.

Capitalism isn't inherently evil ... it's just that actual capitalists (you know, people who make money on merely owning the means of production) don't have to work very hard at all. It depends, really ... I have 'work-study' ... but I can hypothetically spend my entire life just racking on qualifications at university because I'm bored, as I spend 15 hours a week managing my investments on the marketplace.

'Working hard' isa chump's game. You work only insofar as you don't have to work anymore. Only idiots and paupers 'work hard' for a living.

Like, the foundational principle of capitalism is working less to gain ever more.

Nobody is truly successful in capitalism if they merely sell their labour... it's literally in the name itself why such thinking is wrong. The funny thing is if everyone tried to do what I do--then the system falls apart.

As an actual capitalist, I rely on the grand majority of people not being actual capitalists.

It's mindboggling to me why when people scream about the 'welfare state'and 'dem immigrants took ur job' they don't point to people like me doubling my money on my AGL investment in 5 quarters, and earning a high-franked div yield of 7.1% on top of that. That's the real welfare state. That money comes from someone, and no ... has far less to do with CEOs just being that gosh-darn-good ...

Addendum_Forthcoming:
Snip.

Are you okay? Is this just a drunk midnight rant or something? 'Cause actually what the fuck did I read?

Lil devils x:
He did not just highlight the issue, he put pressure on them to do so and called on others to put pressure on them to do so but hey, he has no problem using his position in government to impact his businesses and others.

He's perfectly free to have opinions on things, and to make those known. God forbid that an elected representative does some lobbying rather than big businesses, for a change.

And again, it's not a Trump issue. It's an NFL issue.

EquestrianGeneral:

Are you okay? Is this just a drunk midnight rant or something? 'Cause actually what the fuck did I read?

What? Capitalism is a macrological economic state. People blaming migrants who overwhelmingly have the least bargaining and purchase power for the state of play that initiated their migration elsewhere is missing the forest for the trees.

It's not that fucking difficult, dude.

Capitalism demands the majority of people not being capitalists. It requres people being content (or at least not violently malcontent) to just sell their labour.

Yes, well. Far be it from me to give too much of a shit about what the NFL is doing when the prospect of war with North Korea is back on the table.

In practical terms, all that will change is that players will stay in the changing room during the anthem rather than kneeling in front of the crowd. That is a more discreet - and thus less effective - method of protest, but seeing as how the act of kneeling during the anthem had been successfully recast as a demonstration of hatred towards America rather than a demonstration of opposition to unjustified police shootings, I'd argue that the protests weren't having the intended effect anyway.

Of course, this is another disturbing trend indicating Trump's disregard for freedom of speech when that speech is inconvenient to him and blah blah blah-de-blah. I feel like there's another example of this for me to get worked up about pretty much every week.

EquestrianGeneral:
A perfectly-formulated response that undoubtedly earned you points in Hilary's List of Good Little Boys and Shills. Literally nothing that you said gave me any reason to believe that you have a meaningful opinion on this issue that extends beyond basic Leftist talking points and Trump-bashing. Congrats.

There's a credible argument to be made that Trump infringed on the First Amendment rights of the NFL and the players by pressuring the NFL to punish players who kneel during the national anthem. Consider: would the NFL have imposed such a fine if Trump had not publicly made an issue of it? If the answer to that question is "no," and I believe it is, then it's very difficult to argue that Trump was not infringing on the free speech rights of the players.

The observation at the core of the thread, however, is that Trump's supporters - and people in general - are much less eager to defend the First Amendment when the person is saying something that they disagree with. This is an opinion that is several magnitudes more meaningful than your contributions have been so far.

EquestrianGeneral:
The police aren't going around shooting black people and never were,

Correction: the police are just going around shooting people, and they tend to shoot more black people than white people simply because black people are - for economic reasons - disproportionately likely to live in the low-income, high-crime neighbourhoods which police often interact with.

There's still a problem of police brutality here, linked to a problem of racism and to a problem of gun violence. But denying that any of those problems even exist in the first place is just willful ignorance.

Catnip1024:

Lil devils x:
He did not just highlight the issue, he put pressure on them to do so and called on others to put pressure on them to do so but hey, he has no problem using his position in government to impact his businesses and others.

He's perfectly free to have opinions on things, and to make those known. God forbid that an elected representative does some lobbying rather than big businesses, for a change.

And again, it's not a Trump issue. It's an NFL issue.

When the President of The fucking United States spends months throwing a shit fit about something, you can't just divorce him from it.

Also we've got people who think if you don't mindlessly rise for forced and regulated patriotism, you hate America. Because some people think you can only pick one of two options. Hate or mindless worship. What? Are nuisanced opinions cultural Marxist plots?

Gordon_4:
I am still very confused as how kneeling, a sign of supplication and deference in almost every culture that exists, is seen as disrespectful.

Seriously, I don?t get it. I mean the NFL can police it?s teams how they see fit, but this comes across as asinine for my cash.

I suspect it's not about the kneeling but what it represents. Would everyone be upset if players were kneeling to protest, I don't know, illegal immigration in the US?

Catnip1024:
It's not Trumps decision. He may have highlighted the issue, but at the end of the day it's a business decision. The NFL decided it was being hurt by all this, and chose to deal with it.

The aim is generally to keep sport free of politics. Look at Pep Guardiola getting done for his Catalonian yellow ribbon, for instance. The NFL players have been given the option to remain in the dressing room for the anthem, which is essentially a protest in itself.

I don't really see the issue.

It not being his decision is why it took so long to happen to begin with. If it was his decision, it would have happened the second it came up.

By doing this it is making it political even more than it already was.

If you do not see the issue, then that is on you. It IS an issue regardless if you understand it to be one.

jademunky:
To be honest, the whole idea of a national anthem at a sporting event is insane to begin with. Even as a kid, I found it strange that we were attaching something so important to something so trivial.

But anyway, private club and all that, their own rules. If the National-throwey-ball-league wants to act like racist dicks, it will not affect me in any way since I think I would rather spend the 3 hours up to my armpits in sheep manure than actually watch a football game.

I do not care for sports at all, but a large, probably majority of Americans do, and a major portion of those, enjoy football. It is a major platform. Even I know many athletes names.

It is an important hill to die on for the sake of public tolerance and protesting.

EquestrianGeneral:
Jesus Christ, all of you people are such whiny edgelords. The NFL is a private org, it can do what it wants; does that mean that they should tell their players what they can and can't do in this matter? Probably not, and people are free to interpret that as they see fit. Honestly, this is hardly an issue given more recent problems and events that we're facing in the country.

This isn't about Trump being a Nazi, though Saelune saw to making that point immediately, surprising absolutely nobody. People in general complaining about Americans disliking minorities or some such bullshit, then somehow we manage to bring it to Black Lives Matter. Why can't this site just fucking die already?

I have no desire to surprise. That is the exact opposite really. I actually spoiled the results of the Presidency under Trump. I pointed out he would be absolutely terrible, and he was, is, and will continue to be for as long as he is let to.

Fuck private companies. Fuck letting them do whatever they want. When private companies can do whatever they want, they often abuse everyone they can.

Addendum_Forthcoming:

EquestrianGeneral:

Are you okay? Is this just a drunk midnight rant or something? 'Cause actually what the fuck did I read?

What? Capitalism is a macrological economic state. People blaming migrants who overwhelmingly have the least bargaining and purchase power for the state of play that initiated their migration elsewhere is missing the forest for the trees.

It's not that fucking difficult, dude.

Capitalism demands the majority of people not being capitalists. It requres people being content (or at least not violently malcontent) to just sell their labour.

You're making this fucking difficult, dude. Alright, I'm taking your above post seriously I guess. Let's go.

As an initial point, CEO's (at least of large companies) and people who "own the means of production" usually have to put in large amounts of work to actually properly run them. Additionally, if you're implying that people can never be successful "selling their labor," regardless of what that is (e.g. doctors, lawyers, etc.), then I don't really know what to say.

Your entire post was just a long, winding, impenetrable rant about... something. Capitalism doesn't work if everyone plays the role of the bourgeoisie and owns businesses and means of production--no society functions if there isn't a fundamental underlying group or class of people who sell their labor to produce using the fucking means of production. This isn't a problem that's inherent to Capitalism; if everyone stopped working in a Socialist/Communist society, the same thing would happen. Hell, even in a complete anarchy, if no one is producing food for themselves (or others), then no one eats.

If that was the entire point of that post, then I regret to inform you that it was pointless. Capitalism gives those under it the choice to sell their labor if they believe that that is what they are capable of or if it is simply what they choose to do. Theoretically, anyone can invest the time, money, and other resources to attempt to start a business or invest in stocks; none of these are guaranteed to succeed, and not many people truly have it in them to run successful businesses.

Get off of your high horse. No one cares about your stock investments, and no one cares about how Capitalism is evil because it allows people to earn money aside from selling their labor.

bastardofmelbourne:
Yes, well. Far be it from me to give too much of a shit about what the NFL is doing when the prospect of war with North Korea is back on the table.

In practical terms, all that will change is that players will stay in the changing room during the anthem rather than kneeling in front of the crowd. That is a more discreet - and thus less effective - method of protest, but seeing as how the act of kneeling during the anthem had been successfully recast as a demonstration of hatred towards America rather than a demonstration of opposition to unjustified police shootings, I'd argue that the protests weren't having the intended effect anyway.

Of course, this is another disturbing trend indicating Trump's disregard for freedom of speech when that speech is inconvenient to him and blah blah blah-de-blah. I feel like there's another example of this for me to get worked up about pretty much every week.

EquestrianGeneral:
A perfectly-formulated response that undoubtedly earned you points in Hilary's List of Good Little Boys and Shills. Literally nothing that you said gave me any reason to believe that you have a meaningful opinion on this issue that extends beyond basic Leftist talking points and Trump-bashing. Congrats.

There's a credible argument to be made that Trump infringed on the First Amendment rights of the NFL and the players by pressuring the NFL to punish players who kneel during the national anthem. Consider: would the NFL have imposed such a fine if Trump had not publicly made an issue of it? If the answer to that question is "no," and I believe it is, then it's very difficult to argue that Trump was not infringing on the free speech rights of the players.

The observation at the core of the thread, however, is that Trump's supporters - and people in general - are much less eager to defend the First Amendment when the person is saying something that they disagree with. This is an opinion that is several magnitudes more meaningful than your contributions have been so far.

EquestrianGeneral:
The police aren't going around shooting black people and never were,

Correction: the police are just going around shooting people, and they tend to shoot more black people than white people simply because black people are - for economic reasons - disproportionately likely to live in the low-income, high-crime neighbourhoods which police often interact with.

There's still a problem of police brutality here, linked to a problem of racism and to a problem of gun violence. But denying that any of those problems even exist in the first place is just willful ignorance.

More likely teams that aren't terrible, like I believe the New York Jets will defend their players and use their oodles of money to deal with any repercussions, while the cowardly teams will yield.

All things like this does is give people a bigger opportunity to make a protest. Getting arrested usually adds to a protesters point. Just look at Stonewall, or any 50's black rights moments, such as not giving up one's seat to a white person on a bus.

Now is the time to push harder.

Catnip1024:

Lil devils x:
He did not just highlight the issue, he put pressure on them to do so and called on others to put pressure on them to do so but hey, he has no problem using his position in government to impact his businesses and others.

He's perfectly free to have opinions on things, and to make those known. God forbid that an elected representative does some lobbying rather than big businesses, for a change.

And again, it's not a Trump issue. It's an NFL issue.

Republicans did this shit to Obama over nothing. Now we're doing it back, but unlike Republicans, we're actually right about our complaints.

Zontar:

Orwell is far more known then his work has been read, which is why so many people seem to simultaneously quote him while also pushing the very politics he opposed, being one of the most fierce critics of socialism despite being a socialist himself. The numbers simply don't lie, while politics in entertainment has its place, it's not as popular as just trying to entertain

Then they'll ban that and we can move onto the next thing

It's actually amazing how tolerant the NFL has been about employees protesting on the job, and as an insult to their customers no less. It's another case of entertainers having far more leeway with what they can get away with in regards to unprofessional conduct compared to the rest of society. I know I can't get away with protesting on company time while insulting our customers.[/quote]

How is kneeling insulting customers[/quote]

Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.[/quote]

Zontar:

CheetoDust:

Zontar:
also tend to want politics out of their entertainment (which is, incidentally, why entertainment that's apolitical tends to do far better then that which is political). .

I'd have an easier time buying that if the people who kept saying it didn't also keep quoting Georges Orwell and Carlin at me. Seems like people just want politics they don't like out of entertainment.

Orwell is far more known then his work has been read, which is why so many people seem to simultaneously quote him while also pushing the very politics he opposed, being one of the most fierce critics of socialism despite being a socialist himself. The numbers simply don't lie, while politics in entertainment has its place, it's not as popular as just trying to entertain, which isn't a surprise given the 40/30/30 split that exists in society between the right, middle and left. Anything that takes a political stance will inherently be cutting off a massive part of their potential market, which is why Fox News is the largest news outlet. It's the only one aimed at the right, competing with six or seven that are fighting for the left, all while a full third of the country has basically no news outlet trying to cater to them.

undeadsuitor:

Zontar:

It's actually amazing how tolerant the NFL has been about employees protesting on the job, and as an insult to their customers no less. It's another case of entertainers having far more leeway with what they can get away with in regards to unprofessional conduct compared to the rest of society. I know I can't get away with protesting on company time while insulting our customers.

How is kneeling insulting customers

Honestly if you can't connect people who don't hate their country taking offence to those who do and showing it to being seen as an insult, there's really no way I can see it being explained in a way that gets across.

The NFL is anything but apolitical. They acceptet paid patriotism and effectively allowed themselves to become a militarry recruitment tool and an endorser of the iraq and afghanistan wars in the 2000s. If that's not a political stance, i don't know what is. As for the matter of "hating" one's country, if your stance is that no one should ever criticize their country or government, why are you still living in Canada. Have any of the players protesting actually stated "I hate the United States of America"? Seems like they are against the injustices of the police and justice system which is corrupt, overly militarized and treats the same crimes differently depending on the race, using lethal force to take out petty criminals.

I also take the 'apolitical entertainment' line with a grain of salt, considering how the most famous playwright in my country's history and the second most famous worldwide spent his entire life's work accusing his fellow countrymen of being hypocritical and overly pleased with themselves while failing to uphold the values they claimed to champion. Also aren't you a fan of warhammer? I can't see how that isn't 'political' considering how it has a message about a certain type of politics. A state that doesn't allow people to criticize it within its borders is inherantly authoritarian, it is perhaps one of the most basic thing free speech aamendments like the US 1st amendment defend people against as it was written in a time where in a majortiy of countries criticizing the state or the government would result in punishment. The NFL is legally allowed to do what it is currently doing, but your logic suggests that countries should be allowed to do the same, which sounds like a pretty frightening possibility

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