Trump asks Defense Department to establish "Space Force" as sixth main branch

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT
 

Xsjadoblayde:
War. War!WAR!

Fucking what. Serious boners for all armchair generals no doubt.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=41cJUliIuH0

Dr. Thrax:

Zontar:
I knew it, I fucking knew it, I knew that an excuse to increase funding of space infrastructure would be opposed by people if Trump was the one bringing it about.

This is frankly great news no matter how you cut it. The US military has always been a major player and spender in the space industry, and having them create a new branch dedicated to it is a good thing no matter how you try and cut it.

The Air Force already has a division devoted to space, we don't need a new separate branch - yet - whose job is already covered. This is wasteful and stupid, and the money that's going to this could damn well be better spent elsewhere, like the fucking infrastructure he promised he'd improve.

I'm going to keep an eye out in the coming days to see where are all the right-wingers going "BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR ALL THIS?!?!" like they were for free education and universal healthcare.

I'm still waiting for the "liberal" media to tell me if we can afford this. Any minute now...

Catnip1024:
Except exactly the same arguments could have been made to prevent the formation of dedicated air forces. Specialisation is only a benefit. As is investing in space.

Except there was a present need for a dedicated air force when it was formed. There is no present need for a dedicated space branch of the military right now. Yes, investing more into the space sciences is a good thing, but we can do that by simply moving money from the already bloated defense budget over into that area. This is an unprecedented move that we're not even sure Trump has the authority to unilaterally make, considering it took the National Security Act of 1947 to add the already existing but separate U.S. Army Air Forces as a recognized independent service branch of the US armed forces. Even before the National Security Act, we had an air force for 40 years before they got the formal independence as a service branch apart from the Army. Even then, it was the US Department of War that had established the antecedent air forces before the USAAF.

The little action figures on his desk need another friend with a space suit, and lasers. "And he's the most powerful and special of all the army guys because they made him just for MEEEEEEE! errrrrrwowwoooooooooo whooosshh, bam, KAPOWWW, ackackackack, pew pew, BOOOMMMMMM!"

Zontar:

crimson5pheonix:
Yup, the exploration was done by civilians, and the pillaging was done by military. Who could have seen that coming?

The exploration was done by civilians surrounded by armed soldiers who are the only reason they made it anywhere alive. In the cases it was civilians leading the thing, which, in most, it was not.

Also keeping in mind that being able to kill someone isn't a very useful skill in space exploration. In fact, engineering degrees are far more valuable.

Luckily we spend ~50% of our discretionary spending on the military, so cutting it down to 25% would mean we're still outspending every other program. I wouldn't mind taking it further.

Given that they're unsustainable, why not cut Social Security? It's only going to Boomers anyway, and they screwed this all up so it's not like they deserve it. They'll cry "I paid into it", forgetting that we aren't going to get any of what we paid into it. Well, you people, Quebec's social security is just fine since we actually made decent investments with it.

anyway I'm off to bed now.

Because social security isn't discretionary spending. The military is around ~$700 billion, the next largest program is the department of education at ~$70 billion last time I checked. That's bad budgeting.

altnameJag:
Oh, neat. The party of fiscal responsibility and smaller government is creating yet another redundant governmental agency, but this time it's military themed so they can fund it to their heart's content because "support the troops".

To be fair, it's probably 90% about corporate subsidies for engineering companies, like much military funding.

I mean, what engineering company is going to turn down billions and billions of dollars in free R&D from the government? Inevitably they're going to discover a few things with wider applications, even if the government program itself is a complete bust.

But basically, if you want Mars colonised or asteroids mined, call for a program that explicitly does so. It's just dumb as hell to think it's better to go with some nebulous chance of space infrastructure as a side-product from a military program designed to wreck our planet from orbit.

Eh, knowing trump it won't be anything actually good. 6 months from now, he will go in front of the press and say "Folks, it's great. Our scientists have been working hard over the past year, but we have finally done it: we have created rockets powered entirely by pickaninnies".

bastardofmelbourne:

Saelune:
Not if Tim Currey has anything to say about this!

You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now.

It is eerie how well that fits, doesn't it?

Dr. Thrax:
Except there was a present need for a dedicated air force when it was formed. There is no present need for a dedicated space branch of the military right now. Yes, investing more into the space sciences is a good thing, but we can do that by simply moving money from the already bloated defense budget over into that area. This is an unprecedented move that we're not even sure Trump has the authority to unilaterally make, considering it took the National Security Act of 1947 to add the already existing but separate U.S. Army Air Forces as a recognized independent service branch of the US armed forces. Even before the National Security Act, we had an air force for 40 years before they got the formal independence as a service branch apart from the Army. Even then, it was the US Department of War that had established the antecedent air forces before the USAAF.

I don't think it particularly matters whether or not Trump can unilaterally do it, because from what I read it seems that he has just asked them to do some preliminary planning.

altnameJag:
Oh, neat. The party of fiscal responsibility and smaller government is creating yet another redundant governmental agency, but this time it's military themed so they can fund it to their heart's content because "support the troops".

Catnip1024:

WolvDragon:
What's so great about wasting more tax paying dollars if they're just gonna make more weapons? And why do we need a space force in the first place? If this was for research like more space stations or space ships capable of reaching Mars, I wouldn't be opposed to this. Like I am not opposed to Trump's infastructure plan.

The Chinese have already live-tested anti-satellite weaponry. It's a legitimate expectation that the Russians have prepared similar. It makes sense to prepare for wars involving space, even if weaponising space is currently illegal.

And we shot down a low-orbit satellite over 30 years ago, so...

Yes, but I doubt you're a credible threat to yourselves...

The point is, should a major conflict actually break out, satellites, particularly GPS, would likely be one of the first things targetted. It's worth having a task-force of some size dedicated to such an issue, considering the magnitude. However that fits around existing organisational structures.

Any conflict would also completely fuck up certain earth orbits with debris, but there ya go.

BreakfastMan:
Eh, knowing trump it won't be anything actually good. 6 months from now, he will go in front of the press and say "Folks, it's great. Our scientists have been working hard over the past year, but we have finally done it: we have created rockets powered entirely by pickaninnies".

pretty bold of you to assume they created anything

undeadsuitor:

BreakfastMan:
Eh, knowing trump it won't be anything actually good. 6 months from now, he will go in front of the press and say "Folks, it's great. Our scientists have been working hard over the past year, but we have finally done it: we have created rockets powered entirely by pickaninnies".

pretty bold of you to assume they created anything

I mean, he will have the scientists do it, but he will claim credit for it, obviously.

BreakfastMan:

undeadsuitor:

BreakfastMan:
Eh, knowing trump it won't be anything actually good. 6 months from now, he will go in front of the press and say "Folks, it's great. Our scientists have been working hard over the past year, but we have finally done it: we have created rockets powered entirely by pickaninnies".

pretty bold of you to assume they created anything

I mean, he will have the scientists do it, but he will claim credit for it, obviously.

I wonder how they're going to blame the democrats when their rocket blows up

I still wonder what the republican's plan after Trump is gone is? I mean once you vote to fund the Space Force, why would anyone ever take them seriously when they say there's no room in the budget for college or health care?

Silentpony:
I still wonder what the republican's plan after Trump is gone is? I mean once you vote to fund the Space Force, why would anyone ever take them seriously when they say there's no room in the budget for college or health care?

No room in the budget for college or healthcare, but we've apparently got $700 billion lying around to give to the military anyway, and then we'll cut other social programs because "We just can't pay for them!"

I live here and I honestly can't wait for the US to fucking crash again. It's about damn time we actually had some goddamn consequences for the shit we pull with our own people.

Catnip1024:
The Chinese have already live-tested anti-satellite weaponry. It's a legitimate expectation that the Russians have prepared similar. It makes sense to prepare for wars involving space, even if weaponising space is currently illegal.

The rockets which launch satellites into orbit could hypothetically be used as anti-satellite weapons. Heck, since most military satelites are going to be on semi-synchronous or synchronous orbits, all you need to do is bump them and they stop working properly.

The idea that space can be militarised with current levels of technology or that available in the near future is absurd, even before we consider the international treaties which restrict it. You cannot stop people destroying satellites if that's what they're going to do.. the best bet for everyone would be for international treaties to limit or ban attacking space assets.

Because as you say, any conflict would probably fuck up LEO, and if LEO gets fucked up that's kind of it. Game over. No more space travel for literally centuries, for anyone. We're talking about potentially depriving all of humankind of space for the foreseeable future. No more GPS, no more communications satellites, no space exploration, and certainly no manned missions to anywhere, all because some fucking cheeto-man needs to spend public money on useless shit.

Silentpony:
I still wonder what the republican's plan after Trump is gone is? I mean once you vote to fund the Space Force, why would anyone ever take them seriously when they say there's no room in the budget for college or health care?

Theresa May spent a general election campaign claiming that Labour's policies wouldn't work because there wasn't a "magic money tree" to fund them; once the election was over, she managed to find 1 billion in additional funding from somewhere to allocate to the DUP in return for their confidence-and-supply support.

The Conservatives continue to poll about equally as they did back then, give or take. The electorate have an extremely short attention span, and it's particularly useful for those in power when the papers just won't cover it.

undeadsuitor:

BreakfastMan:

undeadsuitor:

pretty bold of you to assume they created anything

I mean, he will have the scientists do it, but he will claim credit for it, obviously.

I wonder how they're going to blame the democrats when their rocket blows up

They won't. Trump will be there, watching it explode on the launchpad, and saying "Ah, look at what a great success our rocket is! Isn't it a great success folks?". And the republicans will say they meant to do that.

Silvanus:

The Conservatives continue to poll about equally as they did back then, give or take. The electorate have an extremely short attention span, and it's particularly useful for those in power when the papers just won't cover it.

I'm quite surprised at the lack of coverage of a Brexit dividend for the NHS that's going to be funded by tax rises. I mean, that's not really a dividend, that's just a tax rise (commonly seen as quite unlike a dividend). One that appears to coincide with the lower overall tax-take following Brexit and therefore the need to increase the percentage of tax taken.

It must be a real challenge for the Tories, trying to hide behind the thing they're trying to dismantle.

evilthecat:
The idea that space can be militarised with current levels of technology or that available in the near future is absurd, even before we consider the international treaties which restrict it. You cannot stop people destroying satellites if that's what they're going to do.. the best bet for everyone would be for international treaties to limit or ban attacking space assets.

The problem is that space is too easy to militarise. It's a continuation of the modern warfare trend that offensive ability and manoeuverability completely overwhelms any defensive technology. I'm fairly sure there'd be all sorts of interesting ways to try and protect satellites given the proper inclination (similar principles to chaff on aircraft, for instance), but best case scenario still leaves a shedload of debris from the leftovers of a missile.

Because as you say, any conflict would probably fuck up LEO, and if LEO gets fucked up that's kind of it. Game over. No more space travel for literally centuries, for anyone. We're talking about potentially depriving all of humankind of space for the foreseeable future. No more GPS, no more communications satellites, no space exploration, and certainly no manned missions to anywhere, all because some fucking cheeto-man needs to spend public money on useless shit.

Ehh, not sure of the validity of that statement. The orbit would be screwed up, and anything sat in it. There'd be more risk to anything passing through it, but I'm not sure it'd be so bad as to completely bring missions to a halt.

Also, for light reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield

But at the end of the day, if a major conflict broke out on Earth, do you think the decision makers would really be giving much of a shit about long-term viability of satellite orbits? I very much doubt it. If it was serious enough, I doubt they'd be particularly concerned about international treaties, either.

Baffle2:

I'm quite surprised at the lack of coverage of a Brexit dividend for the NHS that's going to be funded by tax rises. I mean, that's not really a dividend, that's just a tax rise (commonly seen as quite unlike a dividend). One that appears to coincide with the lower overall tax-take following Brexit and therefore the need to increase the percentage of tax taken.

It must be a real challenge for the Tories, trying to hide behind the thing they're trying to dismantle.

A challenge indeed. Luckily for the Tories, Brexit doesn't seem to be politically benefiting any of the parties at all: the Conservatives and Labour both are finding it impossible to capitalise on support, because both of them cast such a wide net that any stance they take ends up alienating somebody else; UKIP isn't benefiting, because the single issue they've been campaigning on has been (ostensibly) settled, leaving them electorally pointless; and the Lib Dems aren't benefiting, because while they've taken a stronger stance than Labour or the Tories on this particular issue, they're still so tainted by their last spell in government that they have yet to recover.

So, nothing gains except for uncertainty and chaos. Oh, and the EU negotiators, I suppose.

Wait a minute... wasn't there a thread the other day lamenting about the lack of Space Navy in conservative sci-fi!? I can't tell if that's coincidence or irony...

Any attempt to militarize space is a diplomatic no no. The last thing we want is a war being waged above the stratosphere as it will encourage countries to start developing weapons to put into the stratosphere.

Once you have weaponized satellites the G.I. Joe movies start moving from fiction to reality. Tungsten rods dropped from space leveling cities.

The less military we have in space the better. Encouraging such a thing is introducing another arms race in an already MAD world.

Silentpony:
Well Trump thinks he's a God-Emperor and damned if the Republicans aren't bowing and scraping at the feet of his golden toilet...

This is literally just an attempt to deflect attention from the separating immigrant children from their parents issue.

Worgen:

Silentpony:
Well Trump thinks he's a God-Emperor and damned if the Republicans aren't bowing and scraping at the feet of his golden toilet...

This is literally just an attempt to deflect attention from the separating immigrant children from their parents issue.

"Sir, we're being called out on our xenophobia and heartlessness, what should we do?"

"I'll do something arrogant that is diplomatically and fiscally irresponsible!"

"Great thinking, sir. Shall I get back to fondling your taint and reminding you that you're the greatest president ever, I know it, you know it, everyone knows it?"

"That's the kind of thinking that keeps you on my staff."

Abomination:

Worgen:

Silentpony:
Well Trump thinks he's a God-Emperor and damned if the Republicans aren't bowing and scraping at the feet of his golden toilet...

This is literally just an attempt to deflect attention from the separating immigrant children from their parents issue.

"Sir, we're being called out on our xenophobia and heartlessness, what should we do?"

"I'll do something arrogant that is diplomatically and fiscally irresponsible!"

"Great thinking, sir. Shall I get back to fondling your taint and reminding you that you're the greatest president ever, I know it, you know it, everyone knows it?"

"That's the kind of thinking that keeps you on my staff."

This is kinda what he does. When something bad about him comes out he deflects with some really dumb tweets, those gain traction cause if the pres tweets something stupid people have to cover it. Then it helps reduce coverage of the bad shit hes actually doing.

OH HOLY CRAP! I just realized what this means. Hes responsible for 2 thousand children being seperated from their parents and now hes making a space military? Hes going to turn them into space marines!

Which one of his children will become Horus?

Why?

Moreover it's fucking stupid. A high or low orbit engagement may create a Kessler syndrome effect that makes future space travel downright suicidal. So either it's in the cause of just being able to unilaterally threaten people (as if SLBMs weren't enough) ... or any potential engagement leading to space debris whipping around Earth at 90km/s.

I get that the GOP isn't big on environmentalism, but space pollution travels faster than bullets and surely you can't deny that like you can climate change.

Can said 'space force' just be research orientated? Like, fine, give it some name that will make all the closet fascists spank their monkey furiously, but how about instead of soldiers just technicians and scientists? Ixnay the Death Star treatment, if you could. I shouldn't have to point this out, but the Death Star was a symbol of gratuitous violence to enforce subservience to a fascist regime.

I get the moral complexity of Star Wars is incredibly deep and profound, but the Death Star was a bad thing.

And yeah, one coud make the argument for a space-based missile interceptor, but why do I get the feeling it's not going to be that?

Worgen:
OH HOLY CRAP! I just realized what this means. Hes responsible for 2 thousand children being seperated from their parents and now hes making a space military? Hes going to turn them into space marines!

Which one of his children will become Horus?

I want to say Steve Miller because he's got the face for it, but honestly it's probably going to be Steve Bannon. Definitely one of the Steves.

Wait, do they have to be his children genetically or metaphorically? I thought the Primarchs were metaphorically the children of the Emperor. They were all made in test tubes. Wait, but with his genetic material...

Hmm. This is an important conundrum that deserves my attention for the next several horus hours.

bastardofmelbourne:

Wait, do they have to be his children genetically or metaphorically? I thought the Primarchs were metaphorically the children of the Emperor. They were all made in test tubes. Wait, but with his genetic material...

By genetically superior, I'm fairly certain it will just mean being white and rich. Because, you know, Trump and Bannon.

bastardofmelbourne:

Worgen:
OH HOLY CRAP! I just realized what this means. Hes responsible for 2 thousand children being seperated from their parents and now hes making a space military? Hes going to turn them into space marines!

Which one of his children will become Horus?

I want to say Steve Miller because he's got the face for it, but honestly it's probably going to be Steve Bannon. Definitely one of the Steves.

Wait, do they have to be his children genetically or metaphorically? I thought the Primarchs were metaphorically the children of the Emperor. They were all made in test tubes. Wait, but with his genetic material...

Hmm. This is an important conundrum that deserves my attention for the next several horus hours.

but didn't Bannon already defect? does that mean we are currently in the Horos heresy right now?!

Addendum_Forthcoming:

bastardofmelbourne:

Wait, do they have to be his children genetically or metaphorically? I thought the Primarchs were metaphorically the children of the Emperor. They were all made in test tubes. Wait, but with his genetic material...

By genetically superior, I'm fairly certain it will just mean being white and rich. Because, you know, Trump and Bannon.

Then the God-Emperor of Mankind is actually canonically less racist than Trump, because he had a token black son.

lionsprey:
but didn't Bannon already defect? does that mean we are currently in the Horos heresy right now?!

YOU'RE BLOWING MY MIND HERE MAN

evilthecat:
Because as you say, any conflict would probably fuck up LEO, and if LEO gets fucked up that's kind of it. Game over. No more space travel for literally centuries, for anyone.

Send a gigantic ball of duct tape (adhesive on the outside) into orbit so all the debris bumps into and sticks to it. Problem solved, where's my Nobel prize?

Baffle2:
I'm quite surprised at the lack of coverage of a Brexit dividend for the NHS...

There is no Brexit dividend. The government has already made it clear that the Brexit money is going to be sequestered for projects to compensate for leaving the EU. That's even without the fact that money "saved" from leaving the EU is less than the planned NHS funding increase.

So, as you say, it'll require a tax hike, because there's no money anywhere else to make cuts. Calling it a "Brexit dividend" is contemptible fabrication - but one that will work to a considerable extent amongst Brexiters that the Tories want to keep sweet.

Worgen:
OH HOLY CRAP! I just realized what this means. Hes responsible for 2 thousand children being seperated from their parents and now hes making a space military? Hes going to turn them into space marines!

Which one of his children will become Horus?

That...should seem more ridiculous than it does.

bastardofmelbourne:
Then the God-Emperor of Mankind is actually canonically less racist than Trump, because he had a token black son.

Also, an Asian dude. And a handicapped dude with giantism. And an X-Man.

Shame there's no lady and/or LGBT primarchs (unless Fulgrim counts), otherwise the God-Emperor of Mankind would be woke AF.

The Salamanander are black because in the old Codex:Armageddon there was a pic of one black Salamander captain, which causes a kerfuffle at the time. There was a whiter skinned marine with a flamer (in the days of flamer troops must not wear helmets but should wear gas masks for some reason), but nobody seemed to notice.

Then they decided Salamanders are black. Then they decided they should be jet black with glowing red eyes rather than black person black.

Chimpzy:
Shame there's no lady and/or LGBT primarchs (unless Fulgrim counts)

Sanguinius? And in older fluff, maybe Dorn or Johnson. Fulgrim is only LGBT as part of his evilness, so, yeah...

Actually, expand that to LGBTA and it works, they are usually depicted as asexual.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here