The DSA are a bunch of looney tunes

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT
 

I consider myself left-leaning but when you call to abolish prisons, ICE, and profits, you're just asking to be seen as the fringest of fringes.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/32517/nyc-democratic-socialists-want-abolish-ice-profit-emily-zanotti
I seriously hope the DSA doesn' take over the Democratic party like how Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is doing. Otherwise they're screwed. The party can't be taken this far left.Just left enough for more centrist positions like single payer and free college.

Your link is dead.

erttheking:
Your link is dead.

Sorry about that, I fixed it right now.

The Dems need to find a middle ground or it will be a repeat of the 2016 election. At first I'd thought the Dems would be a shoo in for November, but now I'm not so sure.

have you considered... they are good, actually.

ex951753:
The Dems need to find a middle ground or it will be a repeat of the 2016 election.

Remind me again: which of the dem candidates lost to trump in the general? The more left-wing one or the more centrist one?

BreakfastMan:
have you considered... they are good, actually.

Yes they have alot of good positions. But calling to abolish prisons, ICE and capitalism isn't good.

WolvDragon:

BreakfastMan:
have you considered... they are good, actually.

Yes they have alot of good positions. But calling to abolish prisons, ICE and capitalism isn't good.

What if I told you... those are good positions. Because they are.

I officially question how left-wing you are.

Saelune:
I officially question how left-wing you are.

Why? Because I think some of DSA's positions are too far gone?

BreakfastMan:

WolvDragon:

BreakfastMan:
have you considered... they are good, actually.

Yes they have alot of good positions. But calling to abolish prisons, ICE and capitalism isn't good.

What if I told you... those are good positions. Because they are.

It's true, they are.

Wolvdragon:

What is bad about seeking to reduce or eliminate prisons and the prison system, and replace them with systems of rehabilitation that do not place a focus on punishment and government institutionalization? Not any money in it for private prison owners? Not enough visceral satisfaction at the thought of convicts (or guards) raping the weaker convicts?

What is bad about abolishing ICE? Do we really need a specific organization to find and harass immigrants that are here? We already have a customs and border patrol, note-- that's not the same thing.

And as for abolishing profit: why not? Why shouldn't workers be compensated the full value of their labor? That is, after all, what abolishing profit means. Surplus value should be distributed to those who produced it, not those who merely own the land and machinery. If you want to compensate the owners of the land and machinery for making or buying the machinery or land, let them sell it.

WolvDragon:

Saelune:
I officially question how left-wing you are.

Why? Because I think some of DSA's positions are too far gone?

Because you oppose a lot of left-wing views and defend Trump too much. Plus you agree too much with Zontar who is very openly right-wing.

BreakfastMan:

WolvDragon:

BreakfastMan:
have you considered... they are good, actually.

Yes they have alot of good positions. But calling to abolish prisons, ICE and capitalism isn't good.

What if I told you... those are good positions. Because they are.

So what is good about ending capitalism? Yeah no, I don't agree with that. We need ICE to protect our borders, and honestly do I really need to explain why we need prisons?

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Saelune:
I officially question how left-wing you are.

Why? Because I think some of DSA's positions are too far gone?

Because you oppose a lot of left-wing views and defend Trump too much. Plus you agree too much with Zontar who is very openly right-wing.

I only oppose these views by DSA which is crazy, and I don't agree with Zontar often, where the heck you got that?

ex951753:
The Dems need to find a middle ground or it will be a repeat of the 2016 election. At first I'd thought the Dems would be a shoo in for November, but now I'm not so sure.

There is no reasonable middle ground to be had.
The Dems want a simple continuation of the status quo via incrementalism, yet incrementalism has already failed and the status quo has failed us as well. The US has simply failed to evolve as a nation with its population. We're not going to get anywhere by appealing to a hypothetical middle ground as the mainstream left slides ever more towards the right.

WolvDragon:

BreakfastMan:

WolvDragon:

Yes they have alot of good positions. But calling to abolish prisons, ICE and capitalism isn't good.

What if I told you... those are good positions. Because they are.

So what is good about ending capitalism?

Literally everything my dude. That is like asking "what is good about ending feudalism?".

We need ICE to protect our borders,

No we don't.

and honestly do I really need to explain why we need prisons?

Yes. What purpose do prisons actually serve, currently, and what purpose should prisons serve?

WolvDragon:

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Why? Because I think some of DSA's positions are too far gone?

Because you oppose a lot of left-wing views and defend Trump too much. Plus you agree too much with Zontar who is very openly right-wing.

I only oppose these views by DSA which is crazy, and I don't agree with Zontar, where the heck you got that?

I cant find the specific posts I was looking for, they are from awhile ago.

For the record, I do think you are more left-wing than right, but I definitely think you could be more left-wing.

BreakfastMan:

WolvDragon:

BreakfastMan:

What if I told you... those are good positions. Because they are.

So what is good about ending capitalism?

Literally everything my dude. That is like asking "what is good about ending feudalism?".

We need ICE to protect our borders,

No we don't.

and honestly do I really need to explain why we need prisons?

Yes. What purpose do prisons actually serve, currently, and what purpose should prisons serve?

Um yes we do. How the heck are we gonna enforce our borders? Yeah not all lefties are for open borders.

Um I rather not have capitalism go away, despite it's fault. I think it should be highly regulated though.

So you want murderers running around? Yeah I don't think so.

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Saelune:
Because you oppose a lot of left-wing views and defend Trump too much. Plus you agree too much with Zontar who is very openly right-wing.

I only oppose these views by DSA which is crazy, and I don't agree with Zontar, where the heck you got that?

I cant find the specific posts I was looking for, they are from awhile ago.

For the record, I do think you are more left-wing than right, but I definitely think you could be more left-wing.

So you don't have evidence to back up your claims? And yet you accuse me of agreeing with Zontar often?

Yeah no comment.

I consider myself an international moderate, which is pretty much far left according to U.S. standards.

WolvDragon:
So you want murderers running around? Yeah I don't think so.

An extreme case, but no.
Rather we'd want the abolition of "prisons" and more "correctional" - actually correctional - facilities. Rehabilitation centers where we attempt to actually reform criminals into productive members of society once more through therapy, drug/alcohol rehab, and training to give them job skills so that they have a second chance at life after their debt to society is paid. Prisons as they exist currently in the US should be abolished, it's obvious the system has failed with its high recidivism rate.

WolvDragon:

BreakfastMan:

WolvDragon:

So what is good about ending capitalism?

Literally everything my dude. That is like asking "what is good about ending feudalism?".

We need ICE to protect our borders,

No we don't.

and honestly do I really need to explain why we need prisons?

Yes. What purpose do prisons actually serve, currently, and what purpose should prisons serve?

Um yes we do. How the heck are we gonna enforce our borders? Yeah not all lefties are for open borders.

ICE literally doesn't do anything at our borders. That's CBP.

WolvDragon:
Um I rather not have capitalism go away, despite it's fault. I think it should be highly regulated though.

Read this book: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

Or read this, if you're feeling short of time/effort: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm

WolvDragon:
So you want murderers running around? Yeah I don't think so.

The prison abolition movement is a loose network of groups and activists that seek to reduce or eliminate prisons and the prison system, and replace them with systems of rehabilitation that do not place a focus on punishment and government institutionalization.

WolvDragon:

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

I only oppose these views by DSA which is crazy, and I don't agree with Zontar, where the heck you got that?

I cant find the specific posts I was looking for, they are from awhile ago.

For the record, I do think you are more left-wing than right, but I definitely think you could be more left-wing.

So you don't have evidence to back up your claims? And yet you accuse me of agreeing with Zontar often?

Yeah no comment.

I consider myself an international moderate, which is pretty much far left according to U.S. standards.

No, I accused you of agreeing with Zontar too much (basically agreeing with him at all is usually too much) but then acknowledged I could not back it up.

I don't much care for moderates these days. And no, it doesn't make you far left, that is not how being a moderate works.

Seanchaidh:

WolvDragon:

BreakfastMan:

Literally everything my dude. That is like asking "what is good about ending feudalism?".

No we don't.
Yes. What purpose do prisons actually serve, currently, and what purpose should prisons serve?

Um yes we do. How the heck are we gonna enforce our borders? Yeah not all lefties are for open borders.

ICE literally doesn't do anything at our borders. That's CBP.

WolvDragon:
Um I rather not have capitalism go away, despite it's fault. I think it should be highly regulated though.

Read this book: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

Or read this, if you're feeling short of time/effort: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm

WolvDragon:
So you want murderers running around? Yeah I don't think so.

The prison abolition movement is a loose network of groups and activists that seek to reduce or eliminate prisons and the prison system, and replace them with systems of rehabilitation that do not place a focus on punishment and government institutionalization.

Yeah sorry but there are some people who are too far gone, they're the ones who needs to be locked up. And sure as hell I'm not gonna have a terrorist walk free because we need to abolish prisons.

So marxism, yeah no, I don't believe in marxism. I don't believe in the state owning corporations under some failed economic theory from Karl Marx.

ICE still helps protect our border and arrest criminal aliens.

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Saelune:
I cant find the specific posts I was looking for, they are from awhile ago.

For the record, I do think you are more left-wing than right, but I definitely think you could be more left-wing.

So you don't have evidence to back up your claims? And yet you accuse me of agreeing with Zontar often?

Yeah no comment.

I consider myself an international moderate, which is pretty much far left according to U.S. standards.

No, I accused you of agreeing with Zontar too much (basically agreeing with him at all is usually too much) but then acknowledged I could not back it up.

I don't much care for moderates these days. And no, it doesn't make you far left, that is not how being a moderate works.

Which means I don't agree with him that often, don't slander me like that.

I'm a moderate compared to most modern nations with a universal health care system and for a well functioning welfare state, to us average americans that would be seen as too far left.

International moderate isn't the same as an american moderate, which is still pretty right wing.

BreakfastMan:

ex951753:
The Dems need to find a middle ground or it will be a repeat of the 2016 election.

Remind me again: which of the dem candidates lost to trump in the general? The more left-wing one or the more centrist one?

The one who was more left wing on every social issue, notably including guns and immigration, but didn't repeat the same talking point aboot wall street and the one percent like it was the secret word on PeeWee's Playhouse.

WolvDragon:
Yeah sorry but there are some people who are too far gone, they're the ones who needs to be locked up. And sure as hell I'm not gonna have a terrorist walk free because we need to abolish prisons.

In which cases lifetime imprisonment can still be available. However the current system is far too heavy handed and in some situations it's states that have contracted prison companies who end up agreeing to keep prisons at, say, 70% capacity and can be sued for breach of contract for failing to keep these facilities sufficiently filled with prisoners. It's still focused around keeping anyone convicted of a crime locked away, rather than addressing crime and trying to prevent them from re-offending.

Many abolishoners point towards the systems used in Scandinavia that have low recidivism rates and better outcomes for those that finish their sentences.

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
Yeah sorry but there are some people who are too far gone, they're the ones who needs to be locked up. And sure as hell I'm not gonna have a terrorist walk free because we need to abolish prisons.

In which cases lifetime imprisonment can still be available. However the current system is far too heavy handed and in some situations it's states that have contracted prison companies who end up agreeing to keep prisons at, say, 70% capacity and can be sued for breach of contract for failing to keep these facilities sufficiently filled with prisoners. It's still focused around keeping anyone convicted of a crime locked away, rather than addressing crime and trying to prevent them from re-offending.

Many abolishoners point towards the systems used in Scandinavia that have low recidivism rates and better outcomes for those that finish their sentences.

Still not a good reason to abolish prisons. Your always gonna have the most evil, most vile human beings out there. I wanna rest easy knowing their locked up.

Unless you prefer the alternative, the death penalty for these types of characters.

WolvDragon:

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

So you don't have evidence to back up your claims? And yet you accuse me of agreeing with Zontar often?

Yeah no comment.

I consider myself an international moderate, which is pretty much far left according to U.S. standards.

No, I accused you of agreeing with Zontar too much (basically agreeing with him at all is usually too much) but then acknowledged I could not back it up.

I don't much care for moderates these days. And no, it doesn't make you far left, that is not how being a moderate works.

Which means I don't agree with him that often, don't slander me like that.

I'm a moderate compared to most modern nations with a universal health care system and for a well functioning welfare state, to us average americans that would be seen as too far left.

International moderate isn't the same as an american moderate, which is still pretty right wing.

Then don't slander me.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.1055643-The-US-was-a-country-founded-on-illegal-immigration-and-open-rebellion?page=4#24253492

Yeah, I want the government to take care of the people too, its why things like ICE need to go away.

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Saelune:
No, I accused you of agreeing with Zontar too much (basically agreeing with him at all is usually too much) but then acknowledged I could not back it up.

I don't much care for moderates these days. And no, it doesn't make you far left, that is not how being a moderate works.

Which means I don't agree with him that often, don't slander me like that.

I'm a moderate compared to most modern nations with a universal health care system and for a well functioning welfare state, to us average americans that would be seen as too far left.

International moderate isn't the same as an american moderate, which is still pretty right wing.

Then don't slander me.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.1055643-The-US-was-a-country-founded-on-illegal-immigration-and-open-rebellion?page=4#24253492

Yeah, I want the government to take care of the people too, its why things like ICE need to go away.

You keep attacking Bernie followers, of course I'm gonna think you're dividing the left.

Also ICE needs to be reformed, not abolished.

WolvDragon:
Still not a good reason to abolish prisons. Your always gonna have the most evil, most vile human beings out there. I wanna rest easy knowing their locked up.

But then it limits that to only the people deemed "too far gone" and can't be rehabilitated, while the rest are actually given an opportunity to rebuild their lives once their incarceration is over. We'd see less prison violence and leagues fewer repeat offenders if we actually focused on rehabilitation of criminals instead of simply locking them up and ignoring them.

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
Still not a good reason to abolish prisons. Your always gonna have the most evil, most vile human beings out there. I wanna rest easy knowing their locked up.

But then it limits that to only the people deemed "too far gone" and can't be rehabilitated, while the rest are actually given an opportunity to rebuild their lives once their incarceration is over. We'd see less prison violence and leagues fewer repeat offenders if we actually focused on rehabilitation of criminals instead of simply locking them up and ignoring them.

But they can truly be helped? Maybe they can't be, and only know the prison life. These people are beyond saving.

WolvDragon:

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Which means I don't agree with him that often, don't slander me like that.

I'm a moderate compared to most modern nations with a universal health care system and for a well functioning welfare state, to us average americans that would be seen as too far left.

International moderate isn't the same as an american moderate, which is still pretty right wing.

Then don't slander me.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.1055643-The-US-was-a-country-founded-on-illegal-immigration-and-open-rebellion?page=4#24253492

Yeah, I want the government to take care of the people too, its why things like ICE need to go away.

You keep attacking Bernie followers, of course I'm gonna think you're dividing the left.

Also ICE needs to be reformed, not abolished.

They cut themselves off. I am just throwing back the shit they toss into my yard.

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Saelune:
Then don't slander me.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.1055643-The-US-was-a-country-founded-on-illegal-immigration-and-open-rebellion?page=4#24253492

Yeah, I want the government to take care of the people too, its why things like ICE need to go away.

You keep attacking Bernie followers, of course I'm gonna think you're dividing the left.

Also ICE needs to be reformed, not abolished.

They cut themselves off. I am just throwing back the shit they toss into my yard.

Um ok then?

It's funny watching these faux left-wing characters run across actual left wing ideas and suddenly get a bitter taste in their mouths. And it's funny how when somebody moves slightly left of yourself, you resort to calling them "looneys".

By the way, reading between the lines of your article straight from the main Democrat Party mouthpiece, it looks like the protest was specifically about the latest separation issue. Which puts the rest into context.

You're buying into a media hit piece based on a deliberate misinterpretation of one tweet.

WolvDragon:

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

You keep attacking Bernie followers, of course I'm gonna think you're dividing the left.

Also ICE needs to be reformed, not abolished.

They cut themselves off. I am just throwing back the shit they toss into my yard.

Um ok then?

Stop blaming me as if it is my duty to make peace with a bunch of people who don't want to make peace with me. Compromise is a two way street. You want the divide to go away? Then you do something about it. All you have been doing is arguing with me. Seems like YOU are just as divisive as you claim me to be.

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked