What have conservatives got against peaceful protests?

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We keep noticing a pattern with every organised peaceful protest, there are always conservative politicians, speakers and voters coming out, lamenting them and everybody involved. Without fail every time. Highlighting any single fault if any can be found and using whatever else they can to belittle the people trying to show some solidarity.

Are non-peaceful protests preferred or would it be better if everybody shut up, stayed in and pretended everything was ok instead?

They very much want people to shut up and pretend everything's ok. Unless THEY don't like it.

See Dr. King on the white moderate.

I don't know, there are some very fine people at protests.

Very fine people.

To be fair it's not limited to the conservatives. People generally don't like when the other side protests against them. It's just part of partisan politics.

I mean... I find peaceful protests against Trump to be a waste of time too, but, I imagine, for entirely different reasons.

It's partisanship basically. They claim the other side is horrible while defending their own. It's like sports to an extent, you want your team to succeed while you want the others to fail.

erttheking:
They very much want people to shut up and pretend everything?s ok. Unless THEY don?t like it.

See Dr. King on the white moderate.

Pretty much yeah.

Honestly I think the most telling thing really is that in four US states there were serious attempts by Republican lawmakers to make it legal to run over counter protestors with their cars. And keep in mind this was after Charlottesville. Meaning they had to look at that, you know, act of terrorism and thought to themselves:
"Hey that guy had the right idea!"

And this is why I hate it when people demonize 'ANTIFA' because sure, they are not what I would call good civil people but they aren't the ones plowing cars into people, shooting up schools, advocating genocide and locking children up in cages. And laws that severely punish protestors while turning a blind eye to the people who 'had a permit' even if said people are literally Nazi's will continue to prevent protest from even being possible and embolden Nazi's and will in turn shift American society further and further down the fascist rabbit hole and eventually it will reach a very dark place. And if it could happen in America it could happen anywhere. And on that day I expect the people we condemn as black masked thugs to be remembered much the same way the Allied forces were in World War 2.

Because peaceful protests point out that they are wrong in a way they cannot easily demonise. People throwing rocks through windows and setting cars on fire? "Oh look at how uncivilised they are, clearly they're just a gang of thugs, shouldn't give in to their demands". But a peaceful protest just has witty banners, and getting mad at the banners means you then have to show the banners and get their message across which is exactly what the protestor holding the banner wants. So things have to go to saying how much of an embarrassment the protestors are and whatnot because thats all they have

What does the left have against peaceful gatherings? Or lawful government? Or property rights?

Anti-American Eagle:
What does the left have against peaceful gatherings? Or lawful government? Or property rights?

Or free speech, democracy, merits, equal opportunity, Western Ideals in general, etc etc.

Anti-American Eagle:
What does the left have against peaceful gatherings? Or lawful government? Or property rights?

This man understands. Thank you, sir.

Majestic Manatee:

Are non-peaceful protests preferred

I mean, I would prefer it. Only violent protests for this leftist, thanks.

Anti-American Eagle:
What does the left have against peaceful gatherings? Or lawful government? Or property rights?

That projection!

Pretty sure it was your circlejerk first. Not getting in the way of yours am I?

- tried quoting. didn't work. not sure why. been about six months since I've posted so I'm unsurprised the site is still falling apart.

Anti-American Eagle:
Pretty sure it was your circlejerk first. Not getting in the way of yours am I?

- tried quoting. didn't work. not sure why. been about six months since I've posted so I'm unsurprised the site is still falling apart.

Not really, considering we had points to make outside of shallow sterotyping and whataboutism. I'll repeat myself.

When the left elects a president that exposes any of these ideas, you can bring these points up and have it be more than hot air.

Let's keep it nice and clean here, people.

Keep on topic without resorting to insults/name calling or don't post at all.

That's the basis of the right's entire strategy.

Generally, most people are not ignorant, hateful assholes. So if somebody decides to try to call attention to the fact that, say, large numbers of black boys and men are being extrajudicially executed for minor offenses, then without any other political influences, most people would be inclined to agree that this is a serious problem.

So if you want people to not see extrajudicial killings for minor offenses as a problem and to not sympathize with the people calling attention to that problem, you have to take the focus off of the issue and attack the messengers in order to make them seem unsympathetic. And thus the SQWs expend enormous amounts of energy turning every single time you've ever been impolite or done anything wrong into talking points against you and frame the conversation such that it's the responsibility of the protesters to be unfailingly polite and perfect.

So if student activists start calling attention to, say, rapes of female students, then the status quo people can't just counter that with "We don't consider rapes of female students to be a problem" (even though that is their position, many of these people are either okay with or even in favor of sexual assault), instead you start spamming Trigglypuff memes all over the internet.

Anti-American Eagle:
What does the left have against peaceful gatherings?

You're gonna need to provide some actual examples of this before you make sweeping accusations that the entirety of the left is against peaceful gatherings.

Or lawful government?

Define "lawful government"

Or property rights?

Centrists and right-wing folks always bring this up and I always find it hilarious, because the argument then comes from a belief that "The left wants the government to own everything!" when that's demonstrably false.

Vendor-Lazarus:
Or free speech

Freedom of speech only applies insofar as the government cannot censor you, this does not mean your speech is free of consequences and others are free to exercise their free speech to criticize or voice their opposition/opinion in response to your speech. Welcome to Freedom of Speech 101.

Now, if you're talking about leftists de-platforming prominent far-right figureheads, then we've hit Freedom of Speech 102 and Combatting the Far-Right 101. Firstly, you are not guaranteed a platform for your speech, no entity has to give you a platform from which you can use to speak and spread your message. Subsequently, denying these far-right pundits a platform to give their speech from makes it more difficult for them to get their message out. Centrists and right-wing folks cry out that this is censorship, but this is merely another facet of "free" speech.

democracy

Most leftists I know just want to overhaul the electoral process as the electoral college is outdated and no longer needed in the digital age. But we still support democracy. In contrast, the right seems more than content with setting up either a theocracy or an oligarchy - depending on which part of the right you look at. I mean, we're just about quite squarely in the "kleptocracy" sphere with how our government is plagued with lobbying and other backroom deals.

merits

Explain.

Western Ideals in general

Explain.

Dr. Thrax:

Anti-American Eagle:
What does the left have against peaceful gatherings?

You're gonna need to provide some actual examples of this before you make sweeping accusations that the entirety of the left is against peaceful gatherings.

Or lawful government?

Define "lawful government"

Or property rights?

Centrists and right-wing folks always bring this up and I always find it hilarious, because the argument then comes from a belief that "The left wants the government to own everything!" when that's demonstrably false.

Vendor-Lazarus:
Or free speech

Freedom of speech only applies insofar as the government cannot censor you, this does not mean your speech is free of consequences and others are free to exercise their free speech to criticize or voice their opposition/opinion in response to your speech. Welcome to Freedom of Speech 101.

Now, if you're talking about leftists de-platforming prominent far-right figureheads, then we've hit Freedom of Speech 102 and Combatting the Far-Right 101. Firstly, you are not guaranteed a platform for your speech, no entity has to give you a platform from which you can use to speak and spread your message. Subsequently, denying these far-right pundits a platform to give their speech from makes it more difficult for them to get their message out. Centrists and right-wing folks cry out that this is censorship, but this is merely another facet of "free" speech.

democracy

Most leftists I know just want to overhaul the electoral process as the electoral college is outdated and no longer needed in the digital age. But we still support democracy. In contrast, the right seems more than content with setting up either a theocracy or an oligarchy - depending on which part of the right you look at. I mean, we're just about quite squarely in the "kleptocracy" sphere with how our government is plagued with lobbying and other backroom deals.

merits

Explain.

Western Ideals in general

Explain.

Alot of left wing protesters have caused alot of non peaceful protests like Antifa. Which resort to violence to achieve their aims. Also the authoritarian left tend to come out against free speech. Mostly deplatforming people or trying to silence them. Also the DSA opposes prisons and a police force(ICE) which is going against lawful government.

WolvDragon:
Alot of left wing protesters have caused alot of non peaceful protests like Antifa. Which resort to violence to achieve their aims.

Define "a lot" and cite examples.

Also the authoritarian left tend to come out against free speech. Mostly deplatforming people or trying to silence them.

That's not being "against free speech", as I said in my post, you are not guaranteed a platform for your speech, and the most effective way to combat any ideology - whether it's progressive or regressive - is to limit the platforms prominent figureheads of that ideology can use to spread their message. In this case, it's leftists opposing far-right talking heads that espouse racist, anti-LGBT+, often religiously fueled hate and lies.

Also the DSA opposes prisons and a police force(ICE) which is going against lawful government.

We've already gone over this, Wolv. The DSA opposes the current system of for-profit private prisons that profits off of mass incarceration without any efforts being made at rehabilitating convicts back into productive members of society. That is not opposing "lawful government", it's opposing a corrupt system that creates wealth from what is effectively government sanctioned slavery.

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
Alot of left wing protesters have caused alot of non peaceful protests like Antifa. Which resort to violence to achieve their aims.

Define "a lot" and cite examples.

Also the authoritarian left tend to come out against free speech. Mostly deplatforming people or trying to silence them.

That's not being "against free speech", as I said in my post, you are not guaranteed a platform for your speech, and the most effective way to combat any ideology - whether it's progressive or regressive - is to limit the platforms prominent figureheads of that ideology can use to spread their message. In this case, it's leftists opposing far-right talking heads that espouse racist, anti-LGBT+, often religiously fueled hate and lies.

Also the DSA opposes prisons and a police force(ICE) which is going against lawful government.

We've already gone over this, Wolv. The DSA opposes the current system of for-profit private prisons that profits off of mass incarceration without any efforts being made at rehabilitating convicts back into productive members of society. That is not opposing "lawful government", it's opposing a corrupt system that creates wealth from what is effectively government sanctioned slavery.

The DSA clearly stated in their tweet their against prisons and ICE, I need citations that they're against private prisons.

As for Antifa: https://capitalresearch.org/article/antifa-activist-faces-jail-time-for-nazi-punching/

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-20170829-story.html

https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/16/ut-austin-antifa-robert-reece

So yes, they're a very violent and disgusting group. The far left have abandon the enduring principles of MLK Jr when it comes to peaceful protesting.

Also limiting or deplatforming is going against free speech. We can agree that a nazi is a terrible person, but they're still allowed to spout their ignorant nonesense. Other wise we'll be silenced as well because that logic will go back to us. I mean for example, people who have been critical of Israel's policies in Palestine have been deplatformed, those people shouldn't be silenced, but they are. They should be allowed to speak their mind as well as bigots. If you're really are for free speech then you let everyone speak their minds as long as their not calling for violence against people. Heck the ACLU defended the nazis in court when they wanted to march on a jewish town, you can't deny bigots first admendment rights.

evilthecat:
I don't know, there are some very fine people at protests.

Very fine people.

Like Antifa?

WolvDragon:
As for Antifa: https://capitalresearch.org/article/antifa-activist-faces-jail-time-for-nazi-punching/

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-20170829-story.html

https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/16/ut-austin-antifa-robert-reece

So yes, they're a very violent and disgusting group.

A few incidents of non-lethal violence - though there was one person charged with suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon in the LA Times article - by Antifa members and the entire group is painted as "violent" and "terrorist", reminds me all too much of BLM. I don't condone violence, I'd much rather this all come about without it, but quite frankly the violence from Antifa has been - whether it's right or wrong - provoked by Charlottesville. When far-right protesters decide to show up openly carrying firearms and then one of their members drives a car into a crowd of counter-protesters and kills someone, it causes a big reaction. However, with both sides being so powerfully opposed and antagonistic towards each other, it's difficult to really say who "starts" it with these things. Regardless, the onus to be non-violent is always placed on the left, while people seem more than content to give any right-wing violence a pass.

Let's compare mere assaults to actual murders. Antifa hasn't killed anyone - to my knowledge - though that isn't to say people on the left wing don't kill anyone. Yet SPLC says 2017 was the most violent year for the alt-right, right-wing terrorism has killed 10 times more people than left-wing terrorism since 1992.

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
As for Antifa: https://capitalresearch.org/article/antifa-activist-faces-jail-time-for-nazi-punching/

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-20170829-story.html

https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/16/ut-austin-antifa-robert-reece

So yes, they're a very violent and disgusting group.

A few incidents of non-lethal violence - though there was one person charged with suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon in the LA Times article - by Antifa and the entire group is painted as "violent" and "terrorist", reminds me all too much of BLM. I don't condone violence, I'd much rather this all come about without it, but quite frankly the violence from Antifa has been - whether it's right or wrong - provoked by Charlottesville. When far-right protesters decide to show up openly carrying firearms and then one of their members drives a car into a crowd of counter-protesters and kills someone, it causes a big reaction. However, with both sides being so powerfully opposed and antagonistic towards each other, it's difficult to really say who "starts" it with these things. Regardless, the onus to be non-violent is always placed on the left, while people seem more than content to give any right-wing violence a pass.

Let's compare mere assaults to actual murders. Antifa hasn't killed anyone - to my knowledge - though that isn't to say people on the left wing don't kill anyone. Yet SPLC says 2017 was the most violent year for the alt-right, right-wing terrorism has killed 10 times more people than left-wing terrorism since 1992.

And yet more people are killed under authoritarian leftists regimes like Russia, China and North Korea then right wing terrorism. Also let's not forget Steve Scalise was almost killed by a leftie.
Antifa hasn't killed anyone? Someone from Antifa killed someone in Spain.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/12/13/inenglish/1513160403_880677.html

Also the SPLC isn't a reliable place to quote from, they're very far left and have deemed anyone with a different opinion a racist or bigot. I don't take them very credible.

Majestic Manatee:
We keep noticing a pattern with every organised peaceful protest, there are always conservative politicians, speakers and voters coming out, lamenting them and everybody involved. Without fail every time. Highlighting any single fault if any can be found and using whatever else they can to belittle the people trying to show some solidarity.

We don't like it when our ideas, candidates and policies are being protested against, because it implies that our ideas, candidates and policies are unpopular or actively disliked.

This principle applies to all people. It applies to conservatives more right now, because conservatives happen to be in unified control of all three branches of US government, so the policies being enacted by the US government reflect conservative ideas and priorities. Therefore, anyone protesting against the current policies of the US government is directly challenging the unrestrained enactment of conservative ideology.

To a conservative, this is disturbing because it forces them to question their values. Since most people - conservatives included - do not enjoy questioning their values, they instead prefer to try and reinterpret the protest as illegitimate - as biased, corrupt, controlled by powerful interests, whatever floats their boat. The goal is to reconcile their ideology with the fact that people (in some cases, very large numbers of people) do not like their ideology. If their ideology is great and necessary and needs to be implemented 100%, then anyone who criticises the implementation of that ideology must be making that criticism in bad faith. Once a person has subscribed to that chain of reasoning, it is merely a question of how long it takes them to find "evidence" of their target acting in bad faith.

Gonna have to agree with bastardofmelbourne here, I've seen a large degree of people upset at peaceful (read, non-violent) regardless of what side of the political isle or part of the political spectrum they are on.

WolvDragon:

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
As for Antifa: https://capitalresearch.org/article/antifa-activist-faces-jail-time-for-nazi-punching/

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-20170829-story.html

https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/16/ut-austin-antifa-robert-reece

So yes, they're a very violent and disgusting group.

A few incidents of non-lethal violence - though there was one person charged with suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon in the LA Times article - by Antifa and the entire group is painted as "violent" and "terrorist", reminds me all too much of BLM. I don't condone violence, I'd much rather this all come about without it, but quite frankly the violence from Antifa has been - whether it's right or wrong - provoked by Charlottesville. When far-right protesters decide to show up openly carrying firearms and then one of their members drives a car into a crowd of counter-protesters and kills someone, it causes a big reaction. However, with both sides being so powerfully opposed and antagonistic towards each other, it's difficult to really say who "starts" it with these things. Regardless, the onus to be non-violent is always placed on the left, while people seem more than content to give any right-wing violence a pass.

Let's compare mere assaults to actual murders. Antifa hasn't killed anyone - to my knowledge - though that isn't to say people on the left wing don't kill anyone. Yet SPLC says 2017 was the most violent year for the alt-right, right-wing terrorism has killed 10 times more people than left-wing terrorism since 1992.

And yet more people are killed under authoritarian leftists regimes like Russia, China and North Korea then right wing terrorism. Also let's not forget Steve Scalise was almost killed by a leftie.
Antifa hasn't killed anyone? Someone from Antifa killed someone in Spain.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/12/13/inenglish/1513160403_880677.html

Also the SPLC isn't a reliable place to quote from, they're very far left and have deemed anyone with a different opinion a racist or bigot. I don't take them very credible.

So, you've got to pull one example, from Spain of "ANTIFA" killing somebody during a bar fight.

Meanwhile, the right in America, at protests, have a habit of gunfire and car attacks. You probably don't want to tally up far right/neo-Nazi attacks that aren't at protests.

Edit: As long as everybody can keep the violence down to "sports teams loses/wins divisional championship", I count it as peaceful.

WolvDragon:
And yet more people are killed under authoritarian leftists regimes like Russia, China and North Korea then right wing terrorism

It concerns me that you think any of those three countries fall to the political left. Do you think we're still in the Cold War and they're the communist bloc still?

WolvDragon:
Antifa hasn't killed anyone? Someone from Antifa killed someone in Spain.

I did say that at the time of my post I had no knowledge of any such happening.

Also the SPLC isn't a reliable place to quote from, they're very far left and have deemed anyone with a different opinion a racist or bigot. I don't take them very credible.

And yet you decided a conservative site was a good place to link something relating to the left?

Regardless, I don't think the level of violence members of Antifa commit and the level of violence the far-right have committed and are willing to commit are even on the same level.

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
Antifa hasn't killed anyone? Someone from Antifa killed someone in Spain.

I did say that at the time of my post I had no knowledge of any such happening.

Also the SPLC isn't a reliable place to quote from, they're very far left and have deemed anyone with a different opinion a racist or bigot. I don't take them very credible.

And yet you decided a conservative site was a good place to link something relating to the left?

Regardless, I don't think the level of violence members of Antifa commit and the level of violence the far-right have committed and are willing to commit are even on the same level.

Well no, Antifa and communist regimes are even worse. And that site is much more credible then the SPLC who have a very clear agenda.

WolvDragon:
Well no, Antifa and communist regimes are even worse.

Antifa are worse than Nazis...
That's a new one, and it says a lot about you that you honestly believe that.

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
Well no, Antifa and communist regimes are even worse.

Antifa are worse than Nazis...
That's a new one, and it says a lot about you that you honestly believe that.

OK maybe finding them worse is a bit extreme, but I still find both sides disgusting and extreme all the same then.

WolvDragon:

Dr. Thrax:

WolvDragon:
Well no, Antifa and communist regimes are even worse.

Antifa are worse than Nazis...
That's a new one, and it says a lot about you that you honestly believe that.

OK maybe finding them worse is a bit extreme, but I still find both sides disgusting and extreme all the same then.

When Antifa is in charge of the US, then we'll talk. Right now the guy in charge is beloved by Nazis and the KKK.

Saelune:

WolvDragon:

Dr. Thrax:

Antifa are worse than Nazis...
That's a new one, and it says a lot about you that you honestly believe that.

OK maybe finding them worse is a bit extreme, but I still find both sides disgusting and extreme all the same then.

When Antifa is in charge of the US, then we'll talk. Right now the guy in charge is beloved by Nazis and the KKK.

It doesn't change the fact that Antifa is still a violent hate group.

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