EPA allows abestos back to be used within US manufacturing

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And guess who is now the main producer and supplier of asbestos? Why friendly neighborhood Russian company, Uralasbest who quite literally have put the seal of approval being Trump's face;

image

image

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/

https://www.ecowatch.com/russian-company-trump-asbestos-2585711084.html

So any net positives to be gained from this at all?

Xsjadoblayde:

So any net positives to be gained from this at all?

Well... at least Canadian asbestos won't be blamed for this.

image

WTF! That's freaking dystopian imagery! I'm having a nightmare, ain't I? Someone, please, wake me up!

double post

Xsjadoblayde:
So any net positives to be gained from this at all?

Presumably, cheaper to make stuff.

Might kill or harm the health of some workers and be expensive when it comes to disposal of asbestos-containing products, but that's someone else's problem, isn't it?

Can't wait for companies to be able to spray DDT wildly all over everything again! That is going to own! Make america great again, baby!

Notice that it only applies to new uses. Can't think what those new uses are.

We do a yearly course on asbestos safety at my work and while the short of it is "if you see any, get the hell away from" it does inform you that some varieties, depending on how they've been manufactured, can be safe(ish) to be around.

However I highly doubt that counts when your asbestos is cheap Russian asbestos

Mesothelioma for everyone!

BreakfastMan:
Can't wait for companies to be able to spray DDT wildly all over everything again! That is going to own! Make america great again, baby!

You know, the question I keep asking that no one ever can give me an answer to is what "again" America of the Trump era is supposed to be emulating.

The Roaring Twenties apparently. Warts and...no...no just warts.

Ok:

1. What are Asbestos?

2. Why are they a bad thing?

3. Seeing the words "Russian" and "Trump" in this shouldn't this be part of the whole wider Russia/Trump collusion conspiracy going on right now?

erttheking:

BreakfastMan:
Can't wait for companies to be able to spray DDT wildly all over everything again! That is going to own! Make america great again, baby!

You know, the question I keep asking that no one ever can give me an answer to is what "again" America of the Trump era is supposed to be emulating.

The Roaring Twenties apparently. Warts and...no...no just warts.

Blacks not drinking from the same fountain, women not voting, and gays being a myth.

Samtemdo8:
1. What are Asbestos?

A group of silicate minerals. Asbestos is very hard to burn, so is useful for fireproofing. If I remember rightly, it was also a very bad at conducting heat, so was mostly used as insulation in buildings.

2. Why are they a bad thing?

It comes in the form of microscopic fibres stuck together. These fibres can however be easily dislodged by friction as a very fine dust, and are highly carcinogenic to your lungs if inhaled.

3. Seeing the words "Russian" and "Trump" in this shouldn't this be part of the whole wider Russia/Trump collusion conspiracy going on right now?

It's almost certainly very little to do with Russia, I suspect. Probably much more about just generally gutting regulations.

Samtemdo8:
Ok:

1. What are Asbestos?

2. Why are they a bad thing?

3. Seeing the words "Russian" and "Trump" in this shouldn't this be part of the whole wider Russia/Trump collusion conspiracy going on right now?

1. It's a mineral that can be used to insulate things, amongst other use.

2. It cause a lot of disease, the short version of it is that your body is literally incapable of removing it, every specs you breath will be in you forever. The piece of it are shaped more or less like little spike, so they can easily get lodged in your body. This can cause a large number of disease some fatal.

3. It remain to be seen if that was somehow linked to Russian things. It could very well just be Republican not giving a fuck about regulation because it prevent business from doing the easy things (asbestos is cheap to produce) and they generally don't have to pay for the health problem related to it since they take a long time to show up and company usually don't exist anymore by then. Most advance country won't touch it with a ten foot pole and are usually running program to help people remove it from there house/car whenever it's found. It's doubtful if anybody will actually use it but what might happen is that they do some transformation in the US and export to 3rd world country.

What's the russian around the trump head?

Samtemdo8:
Ok:

1. What are Asbestos?

2. Why are they a bad thing?

3. Seeing the words "Russian" and "Trump" in this shouldn't this be part of the whole wider Russia/Trump collusion conspiracy going on right now?

Some wiki bits...

The use of asbestos in new construction projects has been banned for health and safety reasons in many developed countries or regions, including the European Union, Australia, Hong Kong, Japan, and New Zealand. A notable exception is the United States, where asbestos continues to be used in construction such as cement asbestos pipes. The 5th Circuit Court prevented the EPA from banning asbestos in 1991 because EPA research showed the ban would cost between $450 and 800 million while only saving around 200 lives in a 13-year timeframe, and that the EPA did not provide adequate evidence for the safety of alternative products.
.....
As New York City's World Trade Center collapsed following the September 11 attacks, Lower Manhattan was blanketed in a mixture of building debris and combustible materials. This complex mixture gave rise to the concern that thousands of residents and workers in the area would be exposed to known hazards in the air and in the dust, such as asbestos, lead, glass fibers, and pulverized concrete.[70] More than 1,000 tons of asbestos are thought to have been released into the air following the buildings' destruction.[71] Inhalation of a mixture of asbestos and other toxicants is thought to be linked to the unusually high death rate from cancer of emergency service workers since the disaster.[71] Thousands more are now thought to be at risk of developing cancer due to this exposure with those who have died so far being only the "tip of the iceberg".

erttheking:

BreakfastMan:
Can't wait for companies to be able to spray DDT wildly all over everything again! That is going to own! Make america great again, baby!

You know, the question I keep asking that no one ever can give me an answer to is what "again" America of the Trump era is supposed to be emulating.

My answer: the one inside of Trump supporters' heads. That's why he never specifies a decade. Nevertheless, the reality is the further you go to the past, the worst the life was for most people.

Samtemdo8:
Ok:

1. What are Asbestos?

As has already been said, asbestos is a type of silicate crystal that occurs in the form of extremely fine hairs. In nature it looks like this:

image

It happens to be a very good and cheap insulator and fire retardant and before its dangers were to discovered it was used ubiquitously in buildings for those purposes. Any large building before the mid-80s is likely to have a lot of asbestos in it, as an example, it's why so many people who were first responders on 9/11 developed lung cancer.

It was also used in old laboratory equipment, and can be a major pain in the ass because every now and then you'll find an old asbestos tile in a drawer and have to evacuate the lab and won't be able to go back in there for a month after the lab's been cleared.

2. Why are they a bad thing?

Asbestos fibers are between 0.01 and 20 micrometers (millionths of a meter) thick, for reference, a human hair is about 160 micrometers thick. When inhaled, they are impossible to remove from the lungs and over time the irritation that they cause leads to permanent scarring of the lung tissue and consequent loss of function, similar to silicosis and black lung. Also, the very smallest fibers around the 0.01-0.1 micrometer range, are small enough to penetrate into cell walls and disturb the cell's chromosomes and this ultimately can lead to lung cancer. What makes this form of lung cancer so dangerous is that it's undetectable until it's progressed to a late stage when treatment is much more difficult. There is no safe exposure limit, any exposure, however minor, can lead to cancer. As a result it's been banned pretty much throughout the developed world for 50 years and restricted to the point of being de facto banned in the US.

3. Seeing the words "Russian" and "Trump" in this shouldn't this be part of the whole wider Russia/Trump collusion conspiracy going on right now?

In Trump's book he complained about the asbestos ban, but that was in 1997. Russia also happens to be the world's main exporter of asbestos, but Trump was whining about the ban decades before the 2016 election, and in any case the main importers of asbestos are overwhelmingly third-world countries since superior options have since been discovered and are accessible in wealthy countries. Rather than any sort of collusion with Russia I think it can mostly be blamed on this administration's hostility to the very concept of safety regulations, even reasonable ones.

Xsjadoblayde:

So any net positives to be gained from this at all?

None whatsoever. Better materials for the same purpose have been available for a long time. The only possible benefit is that asbestos is marginally cheaper but the pennies you'll save probably won't cover you if your employees sue you for exposing them to asbestos.

erttheking:

BreakfastMan:
Can't wait for companies to be able to spray DDT wildly all over everything again! That is going to own! Make america great again, baby!

You know, the question I keep asking that no one ever can give me an answer to is what "again" America of the Trump era is supposed to be emulating.

The Roaring Twenties apparently. Warts and...no...no just warts.

I'd say deep down its the William McKinley/Teddy Roosevelt era where at that point the USA essentially became an overseas Empire, what with the whole construction of the Panama Canal and the victory and spoils of the Spanish-American War, along with the whole general "Manifest Destiny" rhetoric. I mean the US was going as far as to potentially annex Canada.

Someone asked what is asbestos and why it's bad, on the Internet? The same Internet with Wikipedia in it? And that they didn't already know? That smells like classic distraction.

Meanwhile, the EPA will keep existing bans but consider new uses. I've yet to hear of any new and safe uses of asbestos and I'm a follower of science and technology. I'd expect a new, safe use of a material that's cheap but with a bad rep to be newsworthy. Removing a barrier to progress where no progress is expected. That makes no sense unless there's a different definition of progress. The kind of progress using bogus scientific studies and well paid jobs in the future.

warmachine:
Someone asked what is asbestos and why it's bad, on the Internet? The same Internet with Wikipedia in it? And that they didn't already know? That smells like classic distraction.

Meanwhile, the EPA will keep existing bans but consider new uses. I've yet to hear of any new and safe uses of asbestos and I'm a follower of science and technology. I'd expect a new, safe use of a material that's cheap but with a bad rep to be newsworthy. Removing a barrier to progress where no progress is expected. That makes no sense unless there's a different definition of progress. The kind of progress using bogus scientific studies and well paid jobs in history.

Wikipedia requires to much reading. And I genuinely did not know why its bad. But than again by its mere association with Trump, of course it would be a bad thing.

Kwak:
What's the russian around the trump head?

Fun

Environmental Working Group surfaced the post and provided a translation from the Russian:

Donald is on our side! ? He supported the head of the United States Environmental Protection Agency, Scott Pruitt, who stated that his agency would no longer deal with negative effects potentially derived from products containing asbestos. Donald Trump supported a specialist and called asbestos ?100% safe after application.?

I really, really, really hope this is fake news.

Oh, it isn't? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

warmachine:
Notice that it only applies to new uses. Can't think what those new uses are.

Presumably, he wants to fight the California wildfire by dumping asbestos on it.

bastardofmelbourne:
I really, really, really hope this is fake news.

Oh, it isn't? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

warmachine:
Notice that it only applies to new uses. Can't think what those new uses are.

Presumably, he wants to fight the California wildfire by dumping asbestos on it.

well it is a flame retardant

Donald Trump makes the villains from Captain Planet seem rational by comparison. On the plus side, i'm sure we can generate lots of renewable energy from all the former presidents spinning in their graves

So, repeal Obamacare, then bring back asbestos. So give lots of people Mesothelioma and make sure only the wealthy can get insured and get treatment. Its like Thanos' plan to reduce resource strain, only class-based and with more suffering.

CyanCat47:
Donald Trump makes the villains from Captain Planet seem rational by comparison. On the plus side, i'm sure we can generate lots of renewable energy from all the former presidents spinning in their graves

They really need to reboot that show, but like, to spread its message again, not to make money. And Trump needs to be the villain.

Wait, what the fuck? I thought civilized countries had banned asbestos on account of it causing cancer and other disease. Why and how is this a thing?

Pseudonym:
Wait, what the fuck? I thought civilized countries had banned asbestos on account of it causing cancer and other disease. Why and how is this a thing?

Trump.

Samtemdo8:
Ok:

1. What are Asbestos?

2. Why are they a bad thing?

3. Seeing the words "Russian" and "Trump" in this shouldn't this be part of the whole wider Russia/Trump collusion conspiracy going on right now?

Asbestos is a lightweight, fiberous mineral that naturally occurs, it's fireproof and a great insulator so it was used in construction for decades. Bad side, there's a lot of evidence that says breathing in the dust produced when it's drilled into (like during house remodeling), causes a particularly nasty kind of lung disease.

Frankly, I'm of two minds on this since there'a almost no info in this thread and all sheer hyperbole. It has potential either way, if it's properly managed it's safe and cheap and useful, but if improperly managed can cause some quite nasty hazards. So more information is required.

vallorn:

Frankly, I'm of two minds on this since there'a almost no info in this thread and all sheer hyperbole. It has potential either way, if it's properly managed it's safe and cheap and useful, but if improperly managed can cause some quite nasty hazards. So more information is required.

This is the United States, where we regularly throw public health to the dogs in the name of corporations making a bit more money. In what world is this going to be properly managed? The stuff already isn't outright banned here, and that still isn't enough for these people. This is just them trying to inch their way towards presenting a "safe" way of bringing it back in full. And I'm willing to bet that if a "new and safe" use is presented, it'll be from the mouth of a corporate backed scientist who's boss would significantly benefit from it.

This picture is great. I say, Trump's face should be printed onto every toxic stuff he legalizes from now on. This can be extended beyond him, into future turns as well.

bastardofmelbourne:
I really, really, really hope this is fake news.

Oh, it isn't? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

warmachine:
Notice that it only applies to new uses. Can't think what those new uses are.

Presumably, he wants to fight the California wildfire by dumping asbestos on it.

But why? Even Sweden preffers to fight forest fires with bombs.

vallorn:
...if it's properly managed it's safe and cheap and useful, but if improperly managed can cause some quite nasty hazards. So more information is required.

I am generally of the opinion that the modus operandi of business is using every trick in the book to improperly manage anything it can as long as it saves money, usually within the boundaries of the law... and occasionally outwith. Up to and including encouraging the government to gut regulations that maintain standards of proper management.

But my cynicism aside, yes, you're right. The relaxation may in fact be pretty harmless, and without more detail it's hard to say.

Lobbyists don't push regulation for the hypothetical possibility of a safe product or process, they have something in mind. Alas, I can't find what it is. The nearest I can find is claims white asbestos is safe. It's not, it's just much less toxic than the other forms and this is already known. I'd have expected a push that white asbestos is acceptably toxic but the push is for new stuff. Perhaps there'll be a claim of a new chemical that prevents dust formation.

vallorn:

Samtemdo8:
Ok:

1. What are Asbestos?

2. Why are they a bad thing?

3. Seeing the words "Russian" and "Trump" in this shouldn't this be part of the whole wider Russia/Trump collusion conspiracy going on right now?

Asbestos is a lightweight, fiberous mineral that naturally occurs, it's fireproof and a great insulator so it was used in construction for decades. Bad side, there's a lot of evidence that says breathing in the dust produced when it's drilled into (like during house remodeling), causes a particularly nasty kind of lung disease.

Frankly, I'm of two minds on this since there'a almost no info in this thread and all sheer hyperbole. It has potential either way, if it's properly managed it's safe and cheap and useful, but if improperly managed can cause some quite nasty hazards. So more information is required.

As an Australian, I'm pretty biased against Asbestos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hardie_Industries

Yeah, properly is the key word here. And properly HAS to be over centuries. I don't think that any company is capable of that.

warmachine:
Lobbyists don't push regulation for the hypothetical possibility of a safe product or process, they have something in mind. Alas, I can't find what it is. The nearest I can find is claims white asbestos is safe. It's not, it's just much less toxic than the other forms and this is already known. I'd have expected a push that white asbestos is acceptably toxic but the push is for new stuff. Perhaps there'll be a claim of a new chemical that prevents dust formation.

Like Brown Coal or Carbon Capture? Overblowing possible solutions to issue... This makes me less optimistic

vallorn:
Asbestos is a lightweight, fiberous mineral that naturally occurs, it's fireproof and a great insulator so it was used in construction for decades. Bad side, there's a lot of evidence that says breathing in the dust produced when it's drilled into (like during house remodeling), causes a particularly nasty kind of lung disease.

It's not "a lot of evidence." It's a damn certainty. There are towns in Australia that were literally wiped out thanks to the presence of an asbestos mill.

That's like looking at a city that got hit by a nuclear warhead and saying "There's a lot of evidence that there was some kind of explosion here."

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