Dutch Cartoons in the News, Yet Again

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Meiam:

Adam Jensen:

Meiam:
But ultimately most muslim don't really care, they might be annoyed the same way most Christian are when caricature of Jesus are done, but there not gonna make a big deal out of it.

Tell that to the victims of Charlie Hebdo. Oh, you can't. They're dead.

Let's not pretend like Islam isn't a problem. It might not be as big of a problem as some right-wing lunatics believe, but it's a big problem nonetheless. Every religion is, but Islam just takes the freakin' cake and sets it on fire. Obviously it's not every Muslim, but quite a lot of them do not appreciate at all when you disrespect their moronic little fairy tale. In fact, they hate it to such a degree that they're willing to murder innocent people over it. So fuck them and fuck their pedophile prophet.

I mean, gay people in some orthodox christian country are being tortured and murdered, does that mean we should organize "hey let's piss off orthodox" event? Rohingya are being murdered by Buddhist in Myanmar. Hinduism murder Muslim because they think they killed a cow.

I agree it's a problem, but every religion have there own stupid rule that there ready to kill over. And even non religious extremist kill people for there own twisted reasoning (here's an example not too far away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks). The problem is extremist, not religion. So when you have a bunch of extremist make an event specifically designed to piss off other extremist in an attempt to make there own extremist position more popular, I fail to see how this will make the world better.

If gay people wanted to sure. But right-wingers aren't oppressed by Muslims. There is a difference between a bully mocking its victims and victims mocking their bully.

Saelune:

Meiam:

Adam Jensen:

Tell that to the victims of Charlie Hebdo. Oh, you can't. They're dead.

Let's not pretend like Islam isn't a problem. It might not be as big of a problem as some right-wing lunatics believe, but it's a big problem nonetheless. Every religion is, but Islam just takes the freakin' cake and sets it on fire. Obviously it's not every Muslim, but quite a lot of them do not appreciate at all when you disrespect their moronic little fairy tale. In fact, they hate it to such a degree that they're willing to murder innocent people over it. So fuck them and fuck their pedophile prophet.

I mean, gay people in some orthodox christian country are being tortured and murdered, does that mean we should organize "hey let's piss off orthodox" event? Rohingya are being murdered by Buddhist in Myanmar. Hinduism murder Muslim because they think they killed a cow.

I agree it's a problem, but every religion have there own stupid rule that there ready to kill over. And even non religious extremist kill people for there own twisted reasoning (here's an example not too far away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks). The problem is extremist, not religion. So when you have a bunch of extremist make an event specifically designed to piss off other extremist in an attempt to make there own extremist position more popular, I fail to see how this will make the world better.

If gay people wanted to sure. But right-wingers aren't oppressed by Muslims. There is a difference between a bully mocking its victims and victims mocking their bully.

Any group that threatens violence against someone for drawing picture is by definition a bully and these people should not be accommodated in the slightest way. Yes, yes, "Not all Muslims." Clearly, I'm only talking about the radicals. Moderates, assuming they are moderates, have little ground to get upset because if they aren't threatening violence, the insults are clearly not directed towards them.

CM156:

Saelune:

Meiam:

I mean, gay people in some orthodox christian country are being tortured and murdered, does that mean we should organize "hey let's piss off orthodox" event? Rohingya are being murdered by Buddhist in Myanmar. Hinduism murder Muslim because they think they killed a cow.

I agree it's a problem, but every religion have there own stupid rule that there ready to kill over. And even non religious extremist kill people for there own twisted reasoning (here's an example not too far away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks). The problem is extremist, not religion. So when you have a bunch of extremist make an event specifically designed to piss off other extremist in an attempt to make there own extremist position more popular, I fail to see how this will make the world better.

If gay people wanted to sure. But right-wingers aren't oppressed by Muslims. There is a difference between a bully mocking its victims and victims mocking their bully.

Any group that threatens violence against someone for drawing picture is by definition a bully and these people should not be accommodated in the slightest way. Yes, yes, "Not all Muslims." Clearly, I'm only talking about the radicals. Moderates, assuming they are moderates, have little ground to get upset because if they aren't threatening violence, the insults are clearly not directed towards them.

No, its not. The people who made the contest knew exactly what they were doing and I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them. They were literally asking for it, cause they wanted to make Muslims look bad. I don't condone murdering over depicting a god in art, but, I also have no issue with assisted suicide, and as far as I am concerned, that is what they were going for.

Saelune:
No, its not. The people who made the contest knew exactly what they were doing and I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them. They were literally asking for it, cause they wanted to make Muslims look bad. I don't condone murdering over depicting a god in art, but, I also have no issue with assisted suicide, and as far as I am concerned, that is what they were going for.

"People who try to make Muslims look bad in this way are basically asking to be murdered." It's hard to ignore the phrase " I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them" and "They were literally asking for it."

There aren't enough thinking emojis in the world to properly convey a response. Other than that I don't think you can possibly be serious that speech ever warrants murder in response. Especially from violent Islamists. You do know that such people aren't likely to be fans of you and your identity, right?

CM156:

Saelune:
No, its not. The people who made the contest knew exactly what they were doing and I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them. They were literally asking for it, cause they wanted to make Muslims look bad. I don't condone murdering over depicting a god in art, but, I also have no issue with assisted suicide, and as far as I am concerned, that is what they were going for.

"People who try to make Muslims look bad in this way are basically asking to be murdered." It's hard to ignore the phrase " I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them" and "They were literally asking for it."

There aren't enough thinking emojis in the world to properly convey a response.

image

OT: Good on them, go through with it. I want to see it happen.

CM156:

Saelune:
No, its not. The people who made the contest knew exactly what they were doing and I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them. They were literally asking for it, cause they wanted to make Muslims look bad. I don't condone murdering over depicting a god in art, but, I also have no issue with assisted suicide, and as far as I am concerned, that is what they were going for.

"People who try to make Muslims look bad in this way are basically asking to be murdered." It's hard to ignore the phrase " I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them" and "They were literally asking for it."

There aren't enough thinking emojis in the world to properly convey a response. Other than that I don't think you can possibly be serious that speech ever warrants murder in response. Especially from violent Islamists. You do know that such people aren't likely to be fans of you and your identity, right?

Its not hard to see you trying to make me look bad by phrasing it in a way that isn't really what I said.

'Make Muslims look bad' is lacking the context of 'Making Muslims look bad by inciting them to murder/cause violence'.

I also would not recommend going into Harlem and yelling the N word as loud as possible.

I also know that the people who made that contest aren't fans of me either. I know that Christians and Muslims both hate me for basically the same reason, but Christians run this country, not Muslims.

Christians have done more harm to LGBT people in the US than Muslims ever could. Now sure, if I was an LGBT person in Iran or Iraq, I would be more concerned with Muslims hating me than Christians, but I dont live there, I live in the US.

crimson5pheonix:

CM156:

Saelune:
No, its not. The people who made the contest knew exactly what they were doing and I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them. They were literally asking for it, cause they wanted to make Muslims look bad. I don't condone murdering over depicting a god in art, but, I also have no issue with assisted suicide, and as far as I am concerned, that is what they were going for.

"People who try to make Muslims look bad in this way are basically asking to be murdered." It's hard to ignore the phrase " I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them" and "They were literally asking for it."

There aren't enough thinking emojis in the world to properly convey a response.

image

OT: Good on them, go through with it. I want to see it happen.

So are we saying inciting violence is ok, as long as you don't commit the violence yourself?

Cause the implications of that, well...

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

CM156:

"People who try to make Muslims look bad in this way are basically asking to be murdered." It's hard to ignore the phrase " I would not feel one bit bad about anything that happened to them" and "They were literally asking for it."

There aren't enough thinking emojis in the world to properly convey a response.

image

OT: Good on them, go through with it. I want to see it happen.

So are we saying inciting violence is ok, as long as you don't commit the violence yourself?

Cause the implications of that, well...

Nah, I'm really on board with the "teach them not to murder" line of thought.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

OT: Good on them, go through with it. I want to see it happen.

So are we saying inciting violence is ok, as long as you don't commit the violence yourself?

Cause the implications of that, well...

Nah, I'm really on board with the "teach them not to murder" line of thought.

Then why are you hoping for people to antagonize them to violence?

Saelune:
Its not hard to see you trying to make me look bad by phrasing it in a way that isn't really what I said.

'Make Muslims look bad' is lacking the context of 'Making Muslims look bad by inciting them to murder/cause violence'.

By drawing pictures. If drawings incite people to violence, these people are violent to begin with.

And the second and third quotes were directly from your statement.

I also know that the people who made that contest aren't fans of me either. I know that Christians and Muslims both hate me for basically the same reason, but Christians run this country, not Muslims.

This whole power analysis kinda fails when you realize that these are people who are able and willing to commit murder despite not being in any formal form of power.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
So are we saying inciting violence is ok, as long as you don't commit the violence yourself?

Cause the implications of that, well...

Nah, I'm really on board with the "teach them not to murder" line of thought.

Then why are you hoping for people to antagonize them to violence?

Because this isn't worth getting that angry over. It should be pointed out that this is a problem.

CM156:

Saelune:
Its not hard to see you trying to make me look bad by phrasing it in a way that isn't really what I said.

'Make Muslims look bad' is lacking the context of 'Making Muslims look bad by inciting them to murder/cause violence'.

By drawing pictures. If drawings incite people to violence, these people are violent to begin with.

And the second and third quotes were directly from your statement.

I also know that the people who made that contest aren't fans of me either. I know that Christians and Muslims both hate me for basically the same reason, but Christians run this country, not Muslims.

This whole power analysis kinda fails when you realize that these are people who are able and willing to commit murder despite not being in any formal form of power.

I know that if a Muslim murders me for being LGBT a bunch of Christians who not only believe but hope I burn in Hell will be quick to condemn them and 'defend my rights as an LGBT person' that when given the chance, they will vote against.

That is a load of hypocritical bullshit and I will not sit back and pretend it isnt. In this situation, BOTH SIDES ARE BAD, but one of them is intentionally starting this shit. It is the same as when Muslims burn US Flags. I dont think burning a flag deserves to be met with violence, but I know that many Muslims burning US flags are doing it to antagonize the US to violence.

I also bet many people who are so willing to defend this contest would not be so willing to defend flag burning. They can barely stand (accidential pun) American athletes kneeling for it.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Nah, I'm really on board with the "teach them not to murder" line of thought.

Then why are you hoping for people to antagonize them to violence?

Because this isn't worth getting that angry over. It should be pointed out that this is a problem.

I don't think antagonizing people to violence with this contest will get the results you say you want then.

Saelune:
That is a load of hypocritical bullshit and I will not sit back and pretend it isnt. In this situation, BOTH SIDES ARE BAD, but one of them is intentionally starting this shit.

"Both sides are bad"

OH PUH-LEEZE: One side is gunning down cartoonists for pictures.

I dont think burning a flag deserves to be met with violence, but I know that many Muslims burning US flags are doing it to antagonize the US to violence.

They're doing it to protest our country's interference with their lives. They are entirely justified in burning their flags and chanting "Death to America" in their countries, and would be entirely justified in doing so here, and if anyone's response to those words is violence, they deserve prison.

I also bet many people who are so willing to defend this contest would not be so willing to defend flag burning. They can barely stand (accidential pun) American athletes kneeling for it.

Both are protected speech.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
Then why are you hoping for people to antagonize them to violence?

Because this isn't worth getting that angry over. It should be pointed out that this is a problem.

I don't think antagonizing people to violence with this contest will get the results you say you want then.

Should we also cancel slutwalks?

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Because this isn't worth getting that angry over. It should be pointed out that this is a problem.

I don't think antagonizing people to violence with this contest will get the results you say you want then.

Should we also cancel slutwalks?

There's a tangible irony lost on some people who rightly abhor victim blaming in some cases but are unwilling or unable to draw comparisons to other cases where victims are blamed for "provoking" their attackers. It's sad, really.

Perhaps I should get a shirt of all the Muhammad cartoons of any note and print "Still not asking for it" on it?

CM156:

Saelune:
That is a load of hypocritical bullshit and I will not sit back and pretend it isnt. In this situation, BOTH SIDES ARE BAD, but one of them is intentionally starting this shit.

"Both sides are bad"

OH PUH-LEEZE: One side is gunning down cartoonists for pictures.

I dont think burning a flag deserves to be met with violence, but I know that many Muslims burning US flags are doing it to antagonize the US to violence.

They're doing it to protest our country's interference with their lives. They are entirely justified in burning their flags and chanting "Death to America" in their countries, and would be entirely justified in doing so here, and if anyone's response to those words is violence, they deserve prison.

I also bet many people who are so willing to defend this contest would not be so willing to defend flag burning. They can barely stand (accidential pun) American athletes kneeling for it.

Both are protected speech.

One side is threatening violence. The other is inciting it. Christians are killing tons of people too. The KKK is a Christian organization.

You're a smart person CM156. Not everyone on your side is though. You might know the difference, or lack there of of those two examples, but I bet far too many dont. I see that kind of stupid hypocrisy all the time with Trump supporters, Christians, conservatives, etc.

If anyone tried to burn a flag on US soil and Trump, the Presidnet got wind of it, guarentee he would tweet how we should arrest/shoot/beat up or otherwise punish them. Unfortunately, our President isnt even half as smart as you.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Because this isn't worth getting that angry over. It should be pointed out that this is a problem.

I don't think antagonizing people to violence with this contest will get the results you say you want then.

Should we also cancel slutwalks?

What are slutwalks? I could infer, but Id rather not assume things.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
I don't think antagonizing people to violence with this contest will get the results you say you want then.

Should we also cancel slutwalks?

What are slutwalks? I could infer, but Id rather not assume things.

Mass protests against rape culture. Specifically against the idea that a woman can wear something and "deserve" to get raped. They frequently involve women butting up against public decency laws as much as they can. Or just blowing right past it.

The point being that there should never be a point where you can say they "deserve" it.

CM156:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
I don't think antagonizing people to violence with this contest will get the results you say you want then.

Should we also cancel slutwalks?

There's a tangible irony lost on some people who rightly abhor victim blaming in some cases but are unwilling or unable to draw comparisons to other cases where victims are blamed for "provoking" their attackers. It's sad, really.

Perhaps I should get a shirt of all the Muhammad cartoons of any note and print "Still not asking for it" on it?

There is a tangible irony when right-wing Christian fundamentalists complain about right-wing Muslim fundamentalists for wanting the same thing under a different name.

Both sides hate Women, gays, jews, people who have sex, etc. The one difference is Christians hate Muslims too, while Muslims hate Christians...actually no wait, they both hate those groups too, they just hate them less than the other groups. But Sunni and Shia hate eachother, just as Protestants and Catholics hate eachother. They just work together when their common enemies are around.

There is a difference between blaming a woman for wearing a sexy outfit, versus blaming a woman going up to a known rapist and flashing their tits cause they just want to get them in trouble.

Wearing a sexy outfit is not intentionally provoking people to violence. This contest is.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Should we also cancel slutwalks?

What are slutwalks? I could infer, but Id rather not assume things.

Mass protests against rape culture. Specifically against the idea that a woman can wear something and "deserve" to get raped. They frequently involve women butting up against public decency laws as much as they can. Or just blowing right past it.

The point being that there should never be a point where you can say they "deserve" it.

I don't agree with the notion of 'never'. Read my previous post for my rebuttal.

In fact, I will repeat it to be thurough, wearing a sexy outfit is not an intentional provoking for violence, the contest is. If a woman (or man or anyone) used their sex appeal to intentionally incite violence, then they are guilty too.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
What are slutwalks? I could infer, but Id rather not assume things.

Mass protests against rape culture. Specifically against the idea that a woman can wear something and "deserve" to get raped. They frequently involve women butting up against public decency laws as much as they can. Or just blowing right past it.

The point being that there should never be a point where you can say they "deserve" it.

I don't agree with the notion of 'never'. Read my previous post for my rebuttal.

In fact, I will repeat it to be thurough, wearing a sexy outfit is not an intentional provoking for violence, the contest is. If a woman (or man or anyone) used their sex appeal to intentionally incite violence, then they are guilty too.

That's why I used the slutwalk specifically. That is the point of the slutwalk, to be as provocative as possible to stick it to any misogynists. So you'd be okay with some guy opening up on a crowd at a slutwalk?

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Mass protests against rape culture. Specifically against the idea that a woman can wear something and "deserve" to get raped. They frequently involve women butting up against public decency laws as much as they can. Or just blowing right past it.

The point being that there should never be a point where you can say they "deserve" it.

I don't agree with the notion of 'never'. Read my previous post for my rebuttal.

In fact, I will repeat it to be thurough, wearing a sexy outfit is not an intentional provoking for violence, the contest is. If a woman (or man or anyone) used their sex appeal to intentionally incite violence, then they are guilty too.

That's why I used the slutwalk specifically. That is the point of the slutwalk, to be as provocative as possible to stick it to any misogynists. So you'd be okay with some guy opening up on a crowd at a slutwalk?

The goal is not to incite violence, nor should it be. If someone organized a slutwalk with the intent to incite violence and made it specifically go through a place trying to rehabilitate known sex offenders, well, I would hope it would be stopped because that is a blatantly terrible idea. I wont condone the people who are tricked into that violence, but I wont pretend it wasn't intentional.

You shouldnt have to trick others into violence just to excuse the violence in 'defending' yourself.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
I don't agree with the notion of 'never'. Read my previous post for my rebuttal.

In fact, I will repeat it to be thurough, wearing a sexy outfit is not an intentional provoking for violence, the contest is. If a woman (or man or anyone) used their sex appeal to intentionally incite violence, then they are guilty too.

That's why I used the slutwalk specifically. That is the point of the slutwalk, to be as provocative as possible to stick it to any misogynists. So you'd be okay with some guy opening up on a crowd at a slutwalk?

The goal is not to incite violence, nor should it be. If someone organized a slutwalk with the intent to incite violence and made it specifically go through a place trying to rehabilitate known sex offenders, well, I would hope it would be stopped because that is a blatantly terrible idea. I wont condone the people who are tricked into that violence, but I wont pretend it wasn't intentional.

You shouldnt have to trick others into violence just to excuse the violence in 'defending' yourself.

Are you saying there aren't men who get violent at the idea of women expressing their sexuality? Or just that religious violence is more valid than misogynistic violence? Because this contest wasn't going to be paraded down Riyadh. It was entirely possible and plausible to avoid it.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

That's why I used the slutwalk specifically. That is the point of the slutwalk, to be as provocative as possible to stick it to any misogynists. So you'd be okay with some guy opening up on a crowd at a slutwalk?

The goal is not to incite violence, nor should it be. If someone organized a slutwalk with the intent to incite violence and made it specifically go through a place trying to rehabilitate known sex offenders, well, I would hope it would be stopped because that is a blatantly terrible idea. I wont condone the people who are tricked into that violence, but I wont pretend it wasn't intentional.

You shouldnt have to trick others into violence just to excuse the violence in 'defending' yourself.

Are you saying there aren't men who get violent at the idea of women expressing their sexuality? Or just that religious violence is more valid than misogynistic violence? Because this contest wasn't going to be paraded down Riyadh. It was entirely possible and plausible to avoid it.

I am saying that your comparison is not valid, that the people trying to trick these violent Muslims are hypocrites, that both the violent people AND the people inciting them are at fault, that Christians are guilty of this same shit too, that women being allowed to express themselves without fear of reprisal is not the fucking same as a right-wing and thus Christian group trying to excuse the violence and hate against Muslims by making them express violence and hatred.

IT IS A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT, I know it, you know it, CM knows it, but I am the one actually saying it.

If Christians really want to be superior to Muslims, then they should really stop being just as horrible as they are, and treat women and gays and other religions and everyone else fairly and respectfully instead of condemning Muslims for their own faults. Glass houses and rocks don't mix.

I also think you're trying too hard to derail this into something else.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
The goal is not to incite violence, nor should it be. If someone organized a slutwalk with the intent to incite violence and made it specifically go through a place trying to rehabilitate known sex offenders, well, I would hope it would be stopped because that is a blatantly terrible idea. I wont condone the people who are tricked into that violence, but I wont pretend it wasn't intentional.

You shouldnt have to trick others into violence just to excuse the violence in 'defending' yourself.

Are you saying there aren't men who get violent at the idea of women expressing their sexuality? Or just that religious violence is more valid than misogynistic violence? Because this contest wasn't going to be paraded down Riyadh. It was entirely possible and plausible to avoid it.

I am saying that your comparison is not valid, that the people trying to trick these violent Muslims are hypocrites, that both the violent people AND the people inciting them are at fault, that Christians are guilty of this same shit too, that women being allowed to express themselves without fear of reprisal is not the fucking same as a right-wing and thus Christian group trying to excuse the violence and hate against Muslims by making them express violence and hatred.

IT IS A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT, I know it, you know it, CM knows it, but I am the one actually saying it.

If Christians really want to be superior to Muslims, then they should really stop being just as horrible as they are, and treat women and gays and other religions and everyone else fairly and respectfully instead of condemning Muslims for their own faults. Glass houses and rocks don't mix.

I also think you're trying too hard to derail this into something else.

No, you're the one trying to derail this into christianity. Because this is an actual 100% accurate parallel I'm drawing here. This all started with cartoonists just drawing Mohammad. Not trying to piss off Muslims or anything, just drawing Mohammad is enough for death threats and actual murder. Woman just wearing clothes was enough for rape threats and actual rape.

Now we have 2 events dedicated to going to the extreme to point out the problems in these situations, but are treated differently for no good reason.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Are you saying there aren't men who get violent at the idea of women expressing their sexuality? Or just that religious violence is more valid than misogynistic violence? Because this contest wasn't going to be paraded down Riyadh. It was entirely possible and plausible to avoid it.

I am saying that your comparison is not valid, that the people trying to trick these violent Muslims are hypocrites, that both the violent people AND the people inciting them are at fault, that Christians are guilty of this same shit too, that women being allowed to express themselves without fear of reprisal is not the fucking same as a right-wing and thus Christian group trying to excuse the violence and hate against Muslims by making them express violence and hatred.

IT IS A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT, I know it, you know it, CM knows it, but I am the one actually saying it.

If Christians really want to be superior to Muslims, then they should really stop being just as horrible as they are, and treat women and gays and other religions and everyone else fairly and respectfully instead of condemning Muslims for their own faults. Glass houses and rocks don't mix.

I also think you're trying too hard to derail this into something else.

No, you're the one trying to derail this into christianity. Because this is an actual 100% accurate parallel I'm drawing here. This all started with cartoonists just drawing Mohammad. Not trying to piss off Muslims or anything, just drawing Mohammad is enough for death threats and actual murder. Woman just wearing clothes was enough for rape threats and actual rape.

Now we have 2 events dedicated to going to the extreme to point out the problems in these situations, but are treated differently for no good reason.

Previous instances sure, they weren't trying to incite violence. This contest wasn't one of those times. They were INTENTIONALLY doing something to cause violence and they knew it.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
I am saying that your comparison is not valid, that the people trying to trick these violent Muslims are hypocrites, that both the violent people AND the people inciting them are at fault, that Christians are guilty of this same shit too, that women being allowed to express themselves without fear of reprisal is not the fucking same as a right-wing and thus Christian group trying to excuse the violence and hate against Muslims by making them express violence and hatred.

IT IS A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT, I know it, you know it, CM knows it, but I am the one actually saying it.

If Christians really want to be superior to Muslims, then they should really stop being just as horrible as they are, and treat women and gays and other religions and everyone else fairly and respectfully instead of condemning Muslims for their own faults. Glass houses and rocks don't mix.

I also think you're trying too hard to derail this into something else.

No, you're the one trying to derail this into christianity. Because this is an actual 100% accurate parallel I'm drawing here. This all started with cartoonists just drawing Mohammad. Not trying to piss off Muslims or anything, just drawing Mohammad is enough for death threats and actual murder. Woman just wearing clothes was enough for rape threats and actual rape.

Now we have 2 events dedicated to going to the extreme to point out the problems in these situations, but are treated differently for no good reason.

Previous instances sure, they weren't trying to incite violence. This contest wasn't one of those times. They were INTENTIONALLY doing something to cause violence and they knew it.

Same with the slutwalks. They try to provoke people as best they can to make their point.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

No, you're the one trying to derail this into christianity. Because this is an actual 100% accurate parallel I'm drawing here. This all started with cartoonists just drawing Mohammad. Not trying to piss off Muslims or anything, just drawing Mohammad is enough for death threats and actual murder. Woman just wearing clothes was enough for rape threats and actual rape.

Now we have 2 events dedicated to going to the extreme to point out the problems in these situations, but are treated differently for no good reason.

Previous instances sure, they weren't trying to incite violence. This contest wasn't one of those times. They were INTENTIONALLY doing something to cause violence and they knew it.

Same with the slutwalks. They try to provoke people as best they can to make their point.

The contest was by a right-wing organization. They weren't trying to improve religious liberty or champion freedom of speech. They were pushing the cause of hating Muslims. I may have lost sight for a bit of my point, but there it is, THAT is my point, THAT is my criticism. They are just hypocrites. If those slutwalks are being run for hypocritical reasons, then that is not ok. It is not the same as this situation as much as you want to pretend it is.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
Previous instances sure, they weren't trying to incite violence. This contest wasn't one of those times. They were INTENTIONALLY doing something to cause violence and they knew it.

Same with the slutwalks. They try to provoke people as best they can to make their point.

The contest was by a right-wing organization. They weren't trying to improve religious liberty or champion freedom of speech. They were pushing the cause of hating Muslims. I may have lost sight for a bit of my point, but there it is, THAT is my point, THAT is my criticism. They are just hypocrites. If those slutwalks are being run for hypocritical reasons, then that is not ok. It is not the same as this situation as much as you want to pretend it is.

And that's what I thought. People aren't concerned by the message so much as the messenger. Nevermind that standing up to religious intolerance is good, you can't stand to defend something you would normally defend because it would cause you to have a point of agreement with someone you don't like.

I hate to Godwin, but Hitler ate sugar. Do you?

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Same with the slutwalks. They try to provoke people as best they can to make their point.

The contest was by a right-wing organization. They weren't trying to improve religious liberty or champion freedom of speech. They were pushing the cause of hating Muslims. I may have lost sight for a bit of my point, but there it is, THAT is my point, THAT is my criticism. They are just hypocrites. If those slutwalks are being run for hypocritical reasons, then that is not ok. It is not the same as this situation as much as you want to pretend it is.

And that's what I thought. People aren't concerned by the message so much as the messenger. Nevermind that standing up to religious intolerance is good, you can't stand to defend something you would normally defend because it would cause you to have a point of agreement with someone you don't like.

I hate to Godwin, but Hitler ate sugar. Do you?

If Hitler ran a contest to incite Jews to violence just to justify exterminating them, I wouldn't blame the Jews.

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
The contest was by a right-wing organization. They weren't trying to improve religious liberty or champion freedom of speech. They were pushing the cause of hating Muslims. I may have lost sight for a bit of my point, but there it is, THAT is my point, THAT is my criticism. They are just hypocrites. If those slutwalks are being run for hypocritical reasons, then that is not ok. It is not the same as this situation as much as you want to pretend it is.

And that's what I thought. People aren't concerned by the message so much as the messenger. Nevermind that standing up to religious intolerance is good, you can't stand to defend something you would normally defend because it would cause you to have a point of agreement with someone you don't like.

I hate to Godwin, but Hitler ate sugar. Do you?

If Hitler ran a contest to incite Jews to violence just to justify exterminating them, I wouldn't blame the Jews.

What sort of contest would drive the jews to violence?

crimson5pheonix:

What sort of contest would drive the jews to violence?

Considering the Jews I spend time with? Harsh comments about kosher delis and disparaging remarks about Mel Brooks.

And Saelune, in response to all your comments: Your statement about provocation is nonsense. "Draw Muhammad" events no more "provoke" Muslims than gay pride parades provoke homophobic violence.

If these people are all that bent out of shape (to the point they are willing to kill people) about what some people choose to do in their free time (draw Muhammad, or love people of the same sex) they can always depart for a country where such behavior is not legal. In fact, it might be best for all of us.

CM156:

crimson5pheonix:

What sort of contest would drive the jews to violence?

Considering the Jews I spend time with? Harsh comments about kosher delis and disparaging remarks about Mel Brooks.

Shit, Saelune has a point.

crimson5pheonix:

CM156:

crimson5pheonix:

What sort of contest would drive the jews to violence?

Considering the Jews I spend time with? Harsh comments about kosher delis and disparaging remarks about Mel Brooks.

Shit, Saelune has a point.

I know, I tell my friend that Blazing Saddles is overrated and that every deli should have a ham with cheese sandwich and I'm sure to have an angry mob outside my door. But not if it's Shabbat: They won't riot on that day.

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