Cop breaks into black man's house and murders him, put on administrative leave.

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CaitSeith:

Smithnikov:

Elijin:
Bugs me none of you have considered exhaustion as a factor. What if this is some sort of "straight off a double shift" walking dead mistake.

I don't know about YOU, but I've worked multiple shifts and been worked to death and not once have I ever came into the wrong house and shot the person inside.

Good gawd, I knew there'd be a few people trying to say this was justified, but holy moly, you exceeded my expectations on what rationale, baby.

My thoughts exactly. Or are they are trying to state a correlation between cop's exhaustion and cop violence? If exhaustion made cops so dangerous towards innocent people, they would be forced to not carry their firearms after their shift is over.

But muh second amendment.

CaitSeith:

Smithnikov:

Elijin:
Bugs me none of you have considered exhaustion as a factor. What if this is some sort of "straight off a double shift" walking dead mistake.

I don't know about YOU, but I've worked multiple shifts and been worked to death and not once have I ever came into the wrong house and shot the person inside.

Good gawd, I knew there'd be a few people trying to say this was justified, but holy moly, you exceeded my expectations on what rationale, baby.

My thoughts exactly. Or are they are trying to state a correlation between cop's exhaustion and cop violence? If exhaustion made cops so dangerous towards innocent people, they would be forced to not carry their firearms after their shift is over.

I was thinking this earlier, but for some reason I didn't post it: I have really bad insomnia, dating back from when I worked night shifts at a casino all through university. I often don't get to sleep until three or four in the morning, and some nights I don't sleep at all. If I have to do anything at all the next day, that means I do it on somewhere between four to zero hours of sleep.

I recall one awful period where I found myself working a graveyard shift after a full day, going home at 7am, showering before going to class for the day - taking a nap on the bus - then heading off to another shift at 6pm that ran until 3am the next morning, getting home about 4-5am, showering, changing, and then just sitting in a chair to take a two-hour nap until I woke up to go to class again. And I knew people who had it worse - people who absolutely couldn't afford to say no to a shift, who seemed to never sleep at all.

I'm saying all this because I want to emphasise: I have never been so tired that I think I would shoot somebody. None of the people I worked with who had worse sleeping habits than I ever gave any indication that they were so sleep-deprived that they might commit violence upon a stranger. I've sometimes dozed off and reacted badly when someone woke me up, but I've never been in that zombie-state where you're still actively moving and doing things while dead in the brain and been close to instinctively hurting anyone.

Sure, I've been so tired that I lost track of where stuff was and where I was. But shooting someone? No! It's not something I do regularly, so it's not something that my body is going to do of its own accord while on Sleepy Bastard autopilot. Being sleep-deprived is a lot like being drunk; you get a lot more clumsy, forgetful, and impolite, but you don't really do anything that you wouldn't do sober. In the same way, you don't transform into a different person when you're tired; you just start making a lot more mistakes and not paying attention. But you cannot mistakenly and inattentively draw a pistol and shoot a bloke. Like, if you're the kind of person who might shoot someone accidentally because you're exhausted, then you must have had shooting people on your mind beforehand.

Like, this police lady is either trigger-happy enough that one of her autonomous reflexes to seeing a person standing where she didn't expect a person to be is to shoot at that person, or she's just so twitchy and paranoid that she legitimately concluded that a killer had broken into her apartment, changed the locks, and then politely opened the door for her on request before ever considering that she might just be on the wrong floor. Either way, she shouldn't have been carrying a gun.

Now apparently the big new development is they're trying to say this poor sap had some weed in his house so that when this cop gets fuck all as a punishment we can justify it by saying that he was high or he shouldn't have been doing something illegal or whatever.

Say it with me kids: Fuck. The. Police.

Chewster:
Now apparently the big new development is they're trying to say this poor sap had some weed in his house so that when this cop gets fuck all as a punishment we can justify it by saying that he was high or he shouldn't have been doing something illegal or whatever.

Say it with me kids: Fuck. The. Police.

Shit, I saw that artict too. Somehow, after a cop murders a man in their own home with a flimsy, ever-changing story and dubious motivation...it's the victim's house they get a search warrant for. If they continue this offensive crap, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a tipping point for a lot of people. The added details coming out are worrying for sure.

Chewster:
Now apparently the big new development is they're trying to say this poor sap had some weed in his house so that when this cop gets fuck all as a punishment we can justify it by saying that he was high or he shouldn't have been doing something illegal or whatever.

Say it with me kids: Fuck. The. Police.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had a little crack sprinkled on him

Chewster:
Now apparently the big new development is they're trying to say this poor sap had some weed in his house so that when this cop gets fuck all as a punishment we can justify it by saying that he was high or he shouldn't have been doing something illegal or whatever.

Say it with me kids: Fuck. The. Police.

Xsjadoblayde:
Shit, I saw that artict too. Somehow, after a cop murders a man in their own home with a flimsy, ever-changing story and dubious motivation...it's the victim's house they get a search warrant for. If they continue this offensive crap, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a tipping point for a lot of people. The added details coming out are worrying for sure.

To those of us who were clamoring for people to stop being reactionary, to those who told others to do nothing bujt give the benefit of the doubt. Hell, let's put a name to it: To those who were trying to quiet Saelune's outrage... We're here. We're at the tipping point. We're at the very instance which Saelune so rightly feared.

At this point, it's just information. Some Media outlets are reporting on it. Some people are responding to the reporting.

But this is all too familiar circling of the wagons. Drawing out the skeletons to muddy the picture. Toxicology reports are still pending on both matters, but the problem is... It really doesn't matter. Guyger was not acting as a police official. Off Duty. Jean was not under any duty to follow Guyger's orders. It doesn't matter if he was high as a kite.

Sure, the lawyers will argue that it was in her mindset that she was in her own home, so she was defending herself. Why does that not matter? Seems cut and dry. Well, the very reason why people just mentioned. How tired she was.

Or, more over... how tired some people get.

Confusional Arousal (sometimes referred to as Sleep Drunkeness) is a condition that's so common that it's surmised around 1 out of 7 people suffer from it or have suffered from it in some capacity. So, say one of you suffer from it, fall asleep at a party, wake up and think you're in your own home.. And shoot someone dead because they wouldn't leave 'your house', making you think that they are a burglar or someone there to do you harm.

Do you think the Police would not arrest you, even if you suffer from this disorder? Do you think they would hold the details of your arrest out of respect for all you've done for the community or if you're just an outstanding guy? More importantly, do you think the police would check the pockets of your shooting victim or the shooting victim's house, find some weed, and then go: "Oh, well, the victim didn't follow the shooter's orders, who clearly was just trying to defend themselves due to that damn Confusional Arousal. That confuses things..."

This officer is going to get off. Even if this gets brought to trial (not a given), there are numerous obstacles to getting what in ANY OTHER SCENARIO where the defendant wasn't a cop would be a slam dunk conviction (unmotivated prosecutors who don't want to run afoul of the police union, smearing of the victim, deferential jurors who will excuse "mistakes" by cops, etc.).

The facts simply don't mesh with the officer's story in the case, but no amount of inconsistencies or discrepancies will get 12 people to convict her. Not even this:
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article218333735.html

Abomination:

CaitSeith:

Smithnikov:

I don't know about YOU, but I've worked multiple shifts and been worked to death and not once have I ever came into the wrong house and shot the person inside.

Good gawd, I knew there'd be a few people trying to say this was justified, but holy moly, you exceeded my expectations on what rationale, baby.

My thoughts exactly. Or are they are trying to state a correlation between cop's exhaustion and cop violence? If exhaustion made cops so dangerous towards innocent people, they would be forced to not carry their firearms after their shift is over.

But muh second amendment.

Touché!

Chewster:
Now apparently the big new development is they're trying to say this poor sap had some weed in his house so that when this cop gets fuck all as a punishment we can justify it by saying that he was high or he shouldn't have been doing something illegal or whatever.

Say it with me kids: Fuck. The. Police.

Hahahaha! Oh, it's like a terrible joke.

I suppose at worst it could all become a cop defence "I smelt weed and he got threatening or violent" - and thankfully for that line he's not around to argue the toss anymore. Even at best, it could be used as an attempt to demean the victim, because even in a straight-up, undeniable manslaughter case, switching the sense of sympathy from the victim to the perpetrator might end in a vastly reduced sentence.

Agema:

Chewster:
Now apparently the big new development is they're trying to say this poor sap had some weed in his house so that when this cop gets fuck all as a punishment we can justify it by saying that he was high or he shouldn't have been doing something illegal or whatever.

Say it with me kids: Fuck. The. Police.

Hahahaha! Oh, it's like a terrible joke.

I suppose at worst it could all become a cop defence "I smelt weed and he got threatening or violent" - and thankfully for that line he's not around to argue the toss anymore. Even at best, it could be used as an attempt to demean the victim, because even in a straight-up, undeniable manslaughter case, switching the sense of sympathy from the victim to the perpetrator might end in a vastly reduced sentence.

It's amazing how well trained cops are that they can be near-sleep piss drunk enough to mistake someone else's apartment for theirs, but aware enough to recognize a weed smell from a door opening for 2 seconds

Crazy how a body does that

undeadsuitor:
It's amazing how well trained cops are that they can be near-sleep piss drunk enough to mistake someone else's apartment for theirs, but aware enough to recognize a weed smell from a door opening for 2 seconds

Crazy how a body does that

Come now, Suitor. We all know that once you've become a Police Officer, you morph into Schrodinger's cat-Personification of Faultless Law Dispensing Superhuman that knows that you've always done something wrong and must be complied with perfectly at the justifiable risk of someone's life... and all-too human regular joe who shouldn't be judged in comparison to the weighty literal powers over Life and Death they are granted because the job is so damn hard!

ObsidianJones:

To those of us who were clamoring for people to stop being reactionary, to those who told others to do nothing bujt give the benefit of the doubt. Hell, let's put a name to it: To those who were trying to quiet Saelune's outrage... We're here. We're at the tipping point. We're at the very instance which Saelune so rightly feared.

I really hate the conflicting feeling of smugness about being right about horrible shit like this.

And correction there, benefit of the doubt to the white cop. Racists don't want to give it to the black victims ever. This is why my policy now is to give benefit of the doubt to the victims of cops first.

My outrage didn't come from nowhere, it came from noticing the (not so hidden) pattern of cops abusing their power, particularly against black people. And even if cops are more power tripping than racist, it is the racism that defends the cops afterwards.

Plus weed? Like really? That stuff that is becoming increasingly legal country-wide? They're grasping at straws. I mean, straws that racists will gladly support, but still.

Exley97:
This officer is going to get off. Even if this gets brought to trial (not a given), there are numerous obstacles to getting what in ANY OTHER SCENARIO where the defendant wasn't a cop would be a slam dunk conviction (unmotivated prosecutors who don't want to run afoul of the police union, smearing of the victim, deferential jurors who will excuse "mistakes" by cops, etc.).

The facts simply don't mesh with the officer's story in the case, but no amount of inconsistencies or discrepancies will get 12 people to convict her. Not even this:
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article218333735.html

This is pretty much how I feel about it. Nothing about this story made any sense from the start, and the details just kept changing along the way. They're covering for her, and I'll be shocked if she gets what she deserves. It just goes to show that even in such an extreme scenario, if a cop is involved, don't expect any kind of justice.

I do find a local Fox station reporting on the fact that weed was found in his house to be funny in a twisted way though. Even in a situation where a cop killed a man in his own home for no reason, they can't help but want to scream "blue lives matter" in any way that they can.

Good to know Im a racist cop defender, because I wanted to try understand what happened instead of just label it 'cops are racist killers' and call it a day. I'd point out that I have never once argued for the cop to get away for this, and actually want a whole bunch of cops to be looking down charges over this, but why would any of you start listening now? Keep on framing it as me making excuses, justifying it etc etc.

And as mentioned previously, if she gets away with this, it will be some grade A bullshit.

Anyway, since you're all just filling in my part with little to no relation on what I say, I will let you all continue without me - Im sure you wont notice.

Elijin:
Good to know Im a racist cop defender, because I wanted to try understand what happened instead of just label it 'cops are racist killers' and call it a day. I'd point out that I have never once argued for the cop to get away for this, and actually want a whole bunch of cops to be looking down charges over this, but why would any of you start listening now? Keep on framing it as me making excuses, justifying it etc etc.

And as mentioned previously, if she gets away with this, it will be some grade A bullshit.

Anyway, since you're all just filling in my part with little to no relation on what I say, I will let you all continue without me - Im sure you wont notice.

Yeah, i dont think people here on this page are calling her racist. (Except Saelune) They're calling her a cop whose trying to get away with it. The victims skin colour doesn't matter much.

Elijin:
snip

You just have to learn not to sound like you're giving less likely scenarious more weight than they deserve. Your "this was just because of exaustion" theory was purely hypteticals with no evidence to debunk the most plausible ones (like being drunk or high). That's why no one brought up exhaustion; because there was no evidence she wasn't drunk or high in the first place.

Just a disclaimer: being drunk or high isn't bad, until someone gets killed.

Elijin:
Good to know Im a racist cop defender, because I wanted to try understand what happened instead of just label it 'cops are racist killers' and call it a day. I'd point out that I have never once argued for the cop to get away for this, and actually want a whole bunch of cops to be looking down charges over this, but why would any of you start listening now? Keep on framing it as me making excuses, justifying it etc etc.

And as mentioned previously, if she gets away with this, it will be some grade A bullshit.

Anyway, since you're all just filling in my part with little to no relation on what I say, I will let you all continue without me - Im sure you wont notice.

I don't think you're a racist cop defender. I do, however, get to watch every single possibility you've brought up (and a few others besides) being used by people to smear the victim, excuse the cop and work towards the inevitable dismissal of charges against her, or her being found not guilty.

While you, personally, are trying to find out what actually happened, the majority of people bringing these points up are just looking for a way to exonerate the cop and make it the victim's fault. Welcome to the current discussion minefield about the police.

As a side note, one of the great tragedies/stupidities/eye-rolling things about this whole mess is that one of the main reasons cops often have to work insane hours is because of tax cuts. No really. "We need more cops!" "OK, here's how much that will cost. We'll need to raise local taxes." "Fuck that, you're just punishing me for having money! Taxes are theft!" "Well, then we can't have more cops then, can we."

It doesn't help that police aren't being trained in threat de-escalation or similar techniques. Nope, easier just to teach them to shoot. Costs less because you don't need as many trainers and more students can pass those classes.

trunkage:
Yeah, i dont think people here on this page are calling her racist. (Except Saelune) They're calling her a cop whose trying to get away with it. The victims skin colour doesn't matter much.

Well, the victim's skin colour kind of does matter. Because if that skin colour was paler, the possibility of her "getting away with it" wouldn't be a possibility.

evilthecat:

Well, the victim's skin colour kind of does matter. Because if that skin colour was paler, the possibility of her "getting away with it" wouldn't be a possibility.

I don't know... certainly the predicate of black people being targeted disproportionately would remain the same, but I think police getting away with shooting anyone is pretty much precedent by this point. I mean nothing happened to those cops that swatted that guy on his porch with neither hide nor hair of a weapon. At this point I feel like so many police officers could get away with just shooting someone, and the precedent alone of actually challenging that might then make the institutionalized racism all the more incriminating if they only tried to penalize cop-on-white folk homicides.

The real question is actually challenging the violations and excess of police powers and protection afforded to them a big enough problem to all people within the socioeconomic spectrum that then they would have to also challenge its racial dimensions unless they wished to appear utterly hypocritical?

That's the scary question you have toask yourself. Are the wealthy and powerful actually going to do something about police officers targetting everyone else when they exponentially benefit from the tax cuts of having to pay for a public army guarding their gated communities--By allowing police to commit civil forfeiture on the middle class and lower, and foist ridiculous traffic violations quotas, in order to reduce the tax burdens even further on themselves to maintain that social order that guarantees their defence?

I guarantee you that the problem won't solve itself until a senator or their kin start ending upin morgues. The funny-not-funny thing is this situation will likely resolve itself when people start swatting the rich and powerful.

Then I reckon you'll suddenly start seeing 'oversight' and 'transparency' of police operations.

After all, no one would prosecute a member of the Gestapo if they occasionally 'got it wrong' if it meant actually challenging what the Gestapo does if the broader socioeconomic relations to race or opposition to the fascist ideology get so bad and the apathy or contempt to the victims of the institution rises so high.

While a police officershooting a black person may be racially motivated, it could be that they're just a paranoid or thuggish person behind a trigger willing to shoot someone on the slightest of non-justifications irrespective of race.

What do you do then? Beyond, you know ... actually prosecute paranoid or thuggish cops...? In a job, let me remind people, is safer than being a grain farmer or farmhand ...? Being a farmer is twice as deadly, andfive times more like to maim and inflict permanent disability and disfigurement. Then you've even got the rates of suicide for being a farmer ... throw on depression on top of that, and being a farmer is tough.

Higher rate of poverty. No state healthcare. No steady income. Higher insurance costs. Lower education and medical options for kids. Being a farmer is tougher than being a cop ... so what exactly are they so frightened of?

Point is, the police and judiciary don't exist to be racist by design. They exist to protect people's property and political agendas (regardless of the motivators behind them). If you simply have more property and political power, the protection of that elevates proportionally.

The police will still act egregiously indifferent to the needs of those who can only trade their labour rather than those who can be without it... even if you stamp out racism. If you address fiscal iniquity in the lowest rungs, they'll still be offered less protection regardless ... and whatever institutionalized transgressions of basic beliefs in the value ofhuman life and equal protection under the law will still be extant.

Kind of like Judge Dredd ... even if he's portrayed as dispensing the law equally regardless of race in Mega-City One, it's still going to be the people that live in places like Peach Trees that will end up as mere collateral for the meat grinders of the resyk centers.

The real question is are the rich even going to bother changing that culture?

I know they released the police finding Weed in Jean's apartment. Every media center in the world weighed in on that one.

Are we going to talk about what they found in Guyger's past? She tried to scrub, but didn't get her Pinterest before the internet got a hold of it.

We went through his history and showed it to the world to paint a picture of what Guyger might have faced. Do we not owe Jean the same to go through Guyger's seeming mentality to see what he ultimately faced? If anything, I think Guyver's part is more telling. Weed makes you tired, not aggressive. If anything found in this case that shows aggressive behavior, it's this pinterest. Not so much weed.

But hey, speculation gets us no where. I just want to know why are we so keen on pointing out weed and not this.. mindset Guyver seems to have and has been taking great lengths to try to remove from the face of the earth?

ObsidianJones:
I know they released the police finding Weed in Jean's apartment. Every media center in the world weighed in on that one.

Are we going to talk about what they found in Guyger's past? She tried to scrub, but didn't get her Pinterest before the internet got a hold of it.

We went through his history and showed it to the world to paint a picture of what Guyger might have faced. Do we not owe Jean the same to go through Guyger's seeming mentality to see what he ultimately faced? If anything, I think Guyver's part is more telling. Weed makes you tired, not aggressive. If anything found in this case that shows aggressive behavior, it's this pinterest. Not so much weed.

But hey, speculation gets us no where. I just want to know why are we so keen on pointing out weed and not this.. mindset Guyver seems to have and has been taking great lengths to try to remove from the face of the earth?

Everytime I am told 'wait and see', I only wait and see that they were worse than even I thought.

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