robman1130:
question. if yall escapists dont like the gop so much then why care? 0.o

Well, there are a few people who are mostly right wing here (like me) but we're a minority. It's not so much The Escapist, but the fandom community is like that in general. It's the same thing when politics come up on most Video game, RPG, Sci-Fi/Fantasy sites. Float around a while and you'll get used to it.

I pretty much agree with all of those 10 points for example, which of course means I'm by definition at odds with well... almost everyone who responded when it comes to politics. >:)

I occasionally say a piece here and there to inspire some thought, and see the other side repreented, but I don't expect to convert anyone or (god forbid) actually have a victory in a debate acknowledged. Mostly I eventually just withdraw from conversations when I've said what I wanted to say and things are just going to get nasty and/or circular.

I'm registered Republican, and while I don't agree with everything the party does or believes I agree with more things they believe in than the left wing believes in. Of the things I disagree with the left wing on, I USED to believe in a lot of those things about 15 or so years ago. However once I grew up a bit (I'm 34 now) and got out into the real world I came to the impression a lot of it is well intentioned but naive, so I find it hard to really hate on the left wing even if I don't like the movement. If reality was like they believe it to be, the world would be a much nicer place.

I guess I'm sort of the embodiment of Churchill's old statement along the lines of "If your not a liberal when you are young you have no heart, if your not a conservative when your old you have no brain".

When it comes to peoples dislike and outright hatred of some of my thoughts on social policy and/or militarism, I can't help but remember how many moons ago I would have felt the same way.

robman1130:
question. if yall escapists dont like the gop so much then why care? 0.o

Because we don't want the GOP to become (more) fundamentalist.
Purity-test, seriously?
Purity. They must be joking.

What about all their moderates? Kick them out? Cut support?
And I'm telling you, if they continue moving further away from the center, they will alienate more voters, not gain any.

robman1130:
question. if yall escapists dont like the gop so much then why care? 0.o

Reasons to pay attention to the random blither coming out of the GOP:

1. Because they're funny.
E.g. there are, like, several layers of juicy irony here: for all their worshipful adoration of Reagan, the Republican leadership can neither remember his actual political positions nor make sense of a simple pithy quotation from him.

2. Because they're a major political party that, for good or for ill, fundamentally defines one "side" of every national policy debate.
E.g. this quiz thing, despite being a silly little quiz, is yet another preview of their major platform talking points for the next electoral cycle.

3. Because I'm deeply concerned about the para-fascist tendencies of the modern "conservative" movement and the way that movement is taking over the Republican party.
E.g. this silly friendship quiz is part of that movement's general obsession with "conservative principles" and Obama's supposed "socialist agenda", and calls to mind that whole fiasco in NY-23.

-- Alex

Hey, I pass! Nah, personally, I like all of those points, but it's not going to work out for the party. Now is not the time to be purging people, when you don't exactly have another electable Republican in line. Bring it back to the center, expand the base, then once you have more people you can go about this business after a slow burn from the center to the right.

Therumancer:
I guess I'm sort of the embodiment of Churchill's old statement along the lines of "If your not a liberal when you are young you have no heart, if your not a conservative when your old you have no brain".

Interesting, this describes me absolutely.

chronobreak:
Hey, I pass! Nah, personally, I like all of those points, but it's not going to work out for the party. Now is not the time to be purging people, when you don't exactly have another electable Republican in line. Bring it back to the center, expand the base, then once you have more people you can go about this business after a slow burn from the center to the right.

Therumancer:
I guess I'm sort of the embodiment of Churchill's old statement along the lines of "If your not a liberal when you are young you have no heart, if your not a conservative when your old you have no brain".

Interesting, this describes me absolutely.

That is backwards.

If you're not a liberal before 25, you have no brain. If you're not a conservative after 35, you have no heart.

chronobreak:
Hey, I pass! Nah, personally, I like all of those points, but it's not going to work out for the party. Now is not the time to be purging people, when you don't exactly have another electable Republican in line. Bring it back to the center, expand the base, then once you have more people you can go about this business after a slow burn from the center to the right.

Therumancer:
I guess I'm sort of the embodiment of Churchill's old statement along the lines of "If your not a liberal when you are young you have no heart, if your not a conservative when your old you have no brain".

Interesting, this describes me absolutely.

So the point is eventually we're all broken down enough by the world around us that we all stop giving a shit about eachother?

...,yeah, sounds about right

SilentStranger:
So the point is eventually we're all broken down enough by the world around us that we all stop giving a shit about eachother?

Well, now you're talking on a moral level, I was just talking about political philosophy. If you stopped caring about anyone else, I think that would be a personal issue, not one that could be blamed on not being able to deal with the world-at-large.

chronobreak:

SilentStranger:
So the point is eventually we're all broken down enough by the world around us that we all stop giving a shit about eachother?

Well, now you're talking on a moral level, I was just talking about political philosophy. If you stopped caring about anyone else, I think that would be a personal issue, not one that could be blamed on not being able to deal with the world-at-large.

Sure, I can see merit in some conservative ideas, the problem I always had with them IS on a moral level. Also, being told you're a parasite due to misfortunes out of your control tends to put you in a hostile mindset against conservative groups.

SilentStranger:
Sure, I can see merit in some conservative ideas, the problem I always had with them IS on a moral level. Also, being told you're a parasite due to misfortunes out of your control tends to put you in a hostile mindset against conservative groups.

I figured that's where you were going with this, but I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and not address it outright.

Look, I'm sorry apparantly someone who is also a conservative called you a parasite. One person does not speak for all conservatives. It is not reason to disparage people with conservative ideals. There is also no conservative party, though you could argue the Republican party is a party of conservatives, but that would just be a generalizing blanket statement anyways, because not all Republicans are conservative. I don't know who you talked to personally, or what they said to you personally regarding your personal circumstance, but if you're mad because you heard something from someone over the television... well, sorry dude. Is this a thinly veiled dig at Republicans for not supporting Obama's health care bill? Is that what you're really trying to say? Or, did a conservative politician literally sit down with you and tell you that you are a parasite?

I have no idea why the Republican party is doing this to itself. Everyone and their dog can see that they'd have a fighting chance in 2010 if they stopped forcing every possible Republican candidate to adopt the same set of outmoded platitudes that have put them in the hole they're in now. Nowadays a candidate like John McCain has to sell out just to prevent his own political party (and the conservative media) from ripping him apart.

Therumancer:
I guess I'm sort of the embodiment of Churchill's old statement along the lines of "If your not a liberal when you are young you have no heart, if your not a conservative when your old you have no brain".

Churchill's "conservatism" is the old European thing: aristocratic and authoritarian, at least moderately classist and traditionalist, significantly moralistic but not overly religious, and beholden to the stability of institutions more than the purity of ideology.

It's got very little in common with most modern American "conservatives" like Glenn Beck, Pat Robertson, Trent Lott, Dick Cheney, Phillys Schafly, or Antonin Scalia.

-- Alex

Skeleon:

robman1130:
question. if yall escapists dont like the gop so much then why care? 0.o

Because we don't want the GOP to become (more) fundamentalist.
Purity-test, seriously?
Purity. They must be joking.

What about all their moderates? Kick them out? Cut support?
And I'm telling you, if they continue moving further away from the center, they will alienate more voters, not gain any.

That's exactly what they intend to do. Expel moderates, cut their support, and move further to right of the spectrum despite the fact that Obama isn't even on the left (he's modestly right). It's reactionary and it's stupid.

Doomlord1375:
...Let's see here.

Spoiler: Click to View

So, to recap, if they get rid of 4,6,7, and 8, and re-word 9, this list might actually apply to the Republican party.

While we are on different parts of the political spectrum, I like the way you think.

RAND00M:
I totally agree with your disagreement.

How? Some of his disagreements are contradictory. I suppose you can disagree with the 10 principles, but his statements read more like a, "Let's hate on the Republicans because of partisan rage!"

I also disagree with this strategy. But I don't totally agree with Akai's disagreement at all.

For instance.

Akai Shizuku:
The Republicans are at it again.

Yay partisan rage.

I disagree. I support no government, no national debt, and no taxes.

So you're an anarchist? If there are no taxes, how are we getting rid of the national debt?

(2) We support market-based health care reform and oppose Obama-style government run healthcare;
I strongly disagree. If Billy gets his arm torn off, you're going to let him die because he can't afford the bill? Screw you.

And what other option do you have with NO GOVERNMENT and NO TAXES. I suppose you're counting on buying red potions and bottling fairies.

It is either government or market based. I don't think we could run a nation wide system of large hospitals based purely on charity. At least, not well. So I don't see how you're going to oppose government, oppose taxes, and oppose market solutions to healthcare.

(3) We support market-based energy reforms by opposing cap and trade legislation;
I strongly disagree.

Good to know? Personally, I think cap and trade is not the best way to go about conservation. I have no idea what a "market-based" energy reform is, so I guess I personally go 50-50 with you here.

(4) We support workers' right to secret ballot by opposing card check;
The workers built your country, asswipes. You have no right to restrict their right to card check. Let them keep secret ballot, though.

Your response indicates you have no idea what they're talking about.

The Republican party isn't putting down workers specifically, and they'd probably say that they love the workers -- with all the market-based rhetoric they spew.

They're talking about anti-union measures here.

The discussion of whether an anti-union measure is also an anti-worker measure is a different one all together.

(5) We support legal immigration and assimilation into American society by opposing amnesty for illegal immigrants;
I think if they're going to hop the border instead of just applying for citizenship, there's a reason. Just let them stay. There's no reason to complain that they're taking all your jobs if you just make more jobs. It can be done.

Personally, I support amnesty. Our current policy has the fucked up result of breaking up families where the kids are born here but both parents are illegal. We also deport people who may have come over in diapers. I have a friend in that situation--he's never set foot in Argentina, doesn't speak Spanish, and is yet at risk for deportation.

I do support measures to try and slow or prevent illegal immigration from occurring in the first place, though.

So while I will agree with a lot of what you said here, you fell flat on your face with your: "Just create more jobs!" crap. If "creating more jobs" was easy, then we wouldn't be facing double digit unemployment right now. And if we can't find employment for 10% of Americans, why the hell would we work EVEN harder to find employment for people who aren't paying taxes and who are still taking advantage of government programs.

(6) We support victory in Iraq and Afghanistan by supporting military-recommended troop surges;
I do not support American imperialism in Iraq and Afghanistan and would like to state that the American government can bugger off. Enough innocent people have died already because of your crap.

Or we could bail on them at let the Taliban roll back in. Personally, I think if we're really committed to helping the Afghans (and I think we should be after destabilizing their country), we should be investing more money in building schools, hospitals, roads, utilities, water treatment, etc, and we should use Afghani contractors instead of handing out big countries to Haliburton.

If the only thing we're doing is sending more troops, I'll settle for that and hope that others, including private US citizens, will step in to fill our gaps.

(7) We support containment of Iran and North Korea, particularly effective action to eliminate their nuclear weapons threat;
Why is everyone an enemy to you? Send Iran and North Korea a couple of fruit baskets or something and they won't see the need for nuclear weapons. The pen is mightier than the sword, and love is far more powerful a weapon than hate. A sign of goodwill will end any potential threats much quicker and much more efficiently than any "containment".

They're enemies because they have openly threatened our allies and they're getting nukes. Iran is overtly hostile to Isreal, and North Korea is overtly hostile towards South Korea. I'm pretty sure they would GLADLY accept any "fruit baskets" you send them, and continue on their merry way towards nuclear armament. I mean, the "fruit basket" strategy didn't really do so well with Hitler, now did it?

(8) We support retention of the Defense of Marriage Act;
No. Just no. I'm sick of your crap, political right.

I don't support the Marriage Act either.
See, we can say the exact same thing without resorting to mindless partisan bullshitting.

(9) We support protecting the lives of vulnerable persons by opposing health care rationing and denial of health care and government funding of abortion; and
I support protecting the lives of vulnerable persons by not denying health care to those who are not fortunate enough to afford the obnoxiously high costs.

I don't support government rationing of health care.

A more legitimate criticism of tenet #9 here is no one has proposed direct government rationing yet. They're only proposing a public insurance option. The whole government rationing aspect of the discussion features only in the predictions of the results of a public insurance option.

I'm still confused though: you're not supporting a government or taxes either. So I guess you're supporting miraculous healing of those who cannot afford health care.

So, what do you guys make of this?

I disagree with the Republican party's move.

Neither major political party supports all of my values, and the fact that they are both becoming more extreme is disconcerting. Who the hell am I supposed to vote for? The crazy neocons or the crazy socialists?

I'd rather have neither.

I personally think it will wind up back firing for them. Come 2012, after all this bullshitting, the public is going to nominate a center right candidate, again. And then they'll keep bitching about how they need to get ULTRA-conservative, ignoring the fact that their constituents chose a center-right candidate. All of this crap is the Republican party literally ignoring the voters.

Finally, I also disagree with a lot of your objections. Mostly because they're essentially: "I hate the Republican party! I hate everything they do! Let me find something they did! Let me tell you I hate it! Yeah!"

Some of your objections didn't make sense. You should at least make sense if you're going to object to something.

"We support X by opposing Y..." is pretty ridiculous. It makes sense for the gun ownership bit, but everywhere else it's either irrelevant or directly contradictory. Take this gem:

GOP:

(3) We support market-based energy reforms by opposing cap and trade legislation;

Right. Cap-and-trade creates a market for emission rights. This contradicts itself unless "market-based" is a euphemism for unregulated.

I really wish our political parties would spend less time preening and posturing like this and more time addressing issues in a professional and productive way. I'm not wild about the Democrats, but this is really ridiculous. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I'm watching C-SPAN and not Comedy Central...or Jerry Springer o_O

robman1130:
question. if yall escapists dont like the gop so much then why care? 0.o

I care because I don't like to see incessant gridlock in congress. Both parties have staked so much of their reputation on so many different pieces of legislation that any compromise is seen as backpedaling. The result of this is lots of gridlock, lots of finger-pointing, and lots of delicious soundbites for the Sunday talk shows, but very little progress at a time when we could really use some quick action. The role of the minority party should not be unrelenting obstructionism, but rather to provide an effective counterpoint to the excesses of a party with strong or absolute control of congress. This means compromise and the presentation of workable legislation. I get the feeling that the current GOP strategy is to stall as much progress as possible until the mid-term elections in the hope that voters will blame Dems for the continued recession/healthcare clusterfuck/intractable military situation.

I'd also like to see an opposition party that reflects some of the shortcomings I see in the current Democrats. A serious pro-business party with a solid and nuanced understanding of economics would add an incredible amount to our national political discourse, especially now. What we have is a Republican party that claims to be pro-business, but has become so obsessed with the Reagan mantra that it can't advance a platform that actually advances the general interests of businesses in the US. The fact that large segments of the party have advocated cutting spending, clamping down on deficits, and instituting/increasing tariffs in the face of a recession reflects an appallingly poor understanding of both economics and history.