Republicans lost in 2012 already.

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Title says it all but I am going to explain why. Independant voters. They are the ones that decide who sits in the Oval Office and they are not happy with Congress or the Senate. Especialy the republican party members who held the country hostage and refused to compromise, caused the drop in rating to AA+, and caused a pathetic joke for an attempt on balancing the budget. And that isnt over yet!

The only people that really want a Republican president are Republicans. When the Independant voters have a choice between 4 more years of Obama or a republican that they cannot trust to set aside party and do the right thing they will vote for Obama. How did Obama get elected? Simple Mcain chose Palin as his running mate and Independant voters think she is batshit crazy. Now the Republican party has blatantly told America that party is more important than the oath they swore. Thats just as bad as running with a batshit crazy woman from Alaska!

If a nominee does not get the Independant voters they do not get the presidency. Republicans lost the Independants already.

I'll remind you and other posters that January hasn't even come yet, let alone next November. A month can be an eternity in politics. Sixteen months? A million things could change between now and then.

I mean, from your lips to the voters' ears, but this is far, far from a foregone conclusion.

All the things you mentioned happened under Obama . As I understand it the president is the most powerful guy in the USA government . In my country , when shit hits the fan , everyone blames the parliament and the ruling party cause they are in charge , how can you be sure the same wont happen here? The credit drop , possibility of a double dip recession , unemployment all can be used against Obama and you can be sure they will .

Powder response: The Tea Party is rising! Even though we're polling at 20% approval, the tide is coming! You will rue the day you voted for Obama!

Normal human being response: I, for one, do NOT feel that Obama's re-election is a foregone conclusion. The economy could get worse, especially with the Tea Party and their hangers-on actively working to destroy it to get Obama out of office. Romney is the candidate that could attract independents, but he's basically running against his own record. Perry is the guy who appeals to the far right, but independents don't like him. Everyone else, IMNSHO, is an also-ran. Bachmann's crazy, Cain's out of his league, you can't scrape the scumbag off Gingrich, and Santorum is ... well, he's Rick Santorum.

I'd put Obama's chances of re-election at about 80-20 in favor. Very few of the Republican candidates have any appeal to moderates, and the ones that do will get eviscerated in the primary campaign season for not being batshit enough (i.e. "willing to speak to Democrats"). It would take a further economic downturn, escalations in one of the current spheres of warfare, or a major non-related fuckup to prevent his walking into a second term.

Now, on the assumption that Obama DOES get re-elected, I expect Articles of Impeachment to be filed the next day, and the day after that, and the day after that. His entire second term, should he get one, will be fending off impeachment for every little thing, even perceived offenses that don't fall under the umbrella of impeachment. I guarantee the Republican Party will do everything it can to destroy his presidency, 10 times what they've already tried. And the "liberal media" won't call the bullshit for what it is.

/chuckles

Anyone who thinks they can predict an election a year out doesn't understand how polics works. There were been LOTS of things that happen between now and then, and the average person has a very short term memory.

Ages away mate. Can't even speculate.

If the election were to be held today, I think Obama would be a surefire winner, however, the average voter is an idiot when it comes to politics. With their short memories and the constant messaging from both sides will likely have many of them scratching their heads as to who did what just a year previous. I think that with the field of candidates the Republicans have, they are putting themselves at a massive disadvantage because most of them won't appeal to many independent voters.

Well, IV's did vote in the Teaparty in the first place. . . they're an unpredictable bunch. I don't think Obama has it in the bag, but I don't think we'll have a Republican House of Reps. come 2012. Media sensationalism is what helped the Teaparty get elected, but I think it's bitten them in the ass with the deficit and the AA+ rating. It comes down too whether people blame Obama, or the Tea Party.

GrimTuesday:
If the election were to be held today, I think Obama would be a surefire winner, however, the average voter is an idiot when it comes to politics. With their short memories and the constant messaging from both sides will likely have many of them scratching their heads as to who did what just a year previous. I think that with the field of candidates the Republicans have, they are putting themselves at a massive disadvantage because most of them won't appeal to many independent voters.

Actually Obama would lose. Obamas approval rating according to the Gallup is 39% as of August 11 2011: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

The Rasmussen: The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 20% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -22

A interesting fact: No President has ever been re-elected when the unemployment rate of the nation was above 7.2%.

I really do not mind zealous opinion. But the "Reality" speaks much differently than words. Obama would get his arse kicked if a election were held right now!

xpowderx:

GrimTuesday:
If the election were to be held today, I think Obama would be a surefire winner, however, the average voter is an idiot when it comes to politics. With their short memories and the constant messaging from both sides will likely have many of them scratching their heads as to who did what just a year previous. I think that with the field of candidates the Republicans have, they are putting themselves at a massive disadvantage because most of them won't appeal to many independent voters.

Actually Obama would lose. Obamas approval rating according to the Gallup is 39% as of August 11 2011: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

The Rasmussen: The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 20% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -22

A interesting fact: No President has ever been re-elected when the unemployment rate of the nation was above 7.2%.

I really do not mind zealous opinion. But the "Reality" speaks much differently than words. Obama would get his arse kicked if a election were held right now!

1. Low approval doesn't equal loss, this is because not only do you have Republicans who are displeased with how he is running things, but you also have liberals and progressives who are also displeased but will still vote for him because they know that the alternative is much worse.

2. You're quoting Rasmussen, who are notorious for being conservative leaning in their polling.

3. You're the one who in fantasy land if you think any of the clowns running for the nomination besides Romney and Huntsman even have a chance at winning in the general election. You have no one who will appeal to the independents and therefore, they will flock to Obama.

GrimTuesday:

xpowderx:

GrimTuesday:
If the election were to be held today, I think Obama would be a surefire winner, however, the average voter is an idiot when it comes to politics. With their short memories and the constant messaging from both sides will likely have many of them scratching their heads as to who did what just a year previous. I think that with the field of candidates the Republicans have, they are putting themselves at a massive disadvantage because most of them won't appeal to many independent voters.

Actually Obama would lose. Obamas approval rating according to the Gallup is 39% as of August 11 2011: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

The Rasmussen: The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 20% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -22

A interesting fact: No President has ever been re-elected when the unemployment rate of the nation was above 7.2%.

I really do not mind zealous opinion. But the "Reality" speaks much differently than words. Obama would get his arse kicked if a election were held right now!

1. Low approval doesn't equal loss, this is because not only do you have Republicans who are displeased with how he is running things, but you also have liberals and progressives who are also displeased but will still vote for him because they know that the alternative is much worse.

2. You're quoting Rasmussen, who are notorious for being conservative leaning in their polling.

3. You're the one who in fantasy land if you think any of the clowns running for the nomination besides Romney and Huntsman even have a chance at winning in the general election. You have no one who will appeal to the independents and therefore, they will flock to Obama.

Like I said zealous opinion is just that. You dont like those facts ill add more: You can read every poll available. Its shows the dissapproval more than approval. This also includes a
pure democrat poll. Reality does speak for itself. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Gallup 8/11 - 8/13 1500 A 39 54 -15
Rasmussen Reports 8/11 - 8/13 1500 LV 44 54 -10
Democracy Corps (D) 8/6 - 8/10 1000 LV 45 50 -5
Washington Post 8/9 - 8/9 601 A 44 46 -2
FOX News 8/7 - 8/9 904 RV 42 48 -6
Reuters/Ipsos 8/4 - 8/8 1055 A 45 52 -7
CNN/Opinion Research 8/5 - 8/7 1008 A 44 54 -10
McClatchy/Marist 8/2 - 8/4 807 RV 44 46 -2

Even Obama concedes he will lose 2012. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIUpjL6dbc8&feature=player_embedded

You know its bad when the guy running already has placed his concession prior to the elections even taking place.

Like I said Zealous opinion is just that. Zealous opinion!

It is 2011, the election is in 2012. Anyone who says at this point that the election is over one way or another simply isnt worthy of being taken seriously at all on that issue.

xpowderx:

GrimTuesday:

xpowderx:

Actually Obama would lose. Obamas approval rating according to the Gallup is 39% as of August 11 2011: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

The Rasmussen: The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 20% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -22

A interesting fact: No President has ever been re-elected when the unemployment rate of the nation was above 7.2%.

I really do not mind zealous opinion. But the "Reality" speaks much differently than words. Obama would get his arse kicked if a election were held right now!

1. Low approval doesn't equal loss, this is because not only do you have Republicans who are displeased with how he is running things, but you also have liberals and progressives who are also displeased but will still vote for him because they know that the alternative is much worse.

2. You're quoting Rasmussen, who are notorious for being conservative leaning in their polling.

3. You're the one who in fantasy land if you think any of the clowns running for the nomination besides Romney and Huntsman even have a chance at winning in the general election. You have no one who will appeal to the independents and therefore, they will flock to Obama.

Like I said zealous opinion is just that. You dont like those facts ill add more: You can read every poll available. Its shows the dissapproval more than approval. This also includes a
pure democrat poll. Reality does speak for itself. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Gallup 8/11 - 8/13 1500 A 39 54 -15
Rasmussen Reports 8/11 - 8/13 1500 LV 44 54 -10
Democracy Corps (D) 8/6 - 8/10 1000 LV 45 50 -5
Washington Post 8/9 - 8/9 601 A 44 46 -2
FOX News 8/7 - 8/9 904 RV 42 48 -6
Reuters/Ipsos 8/4 - 8/8 1055 A 45 52 -7
CNN/Opinion Research 8/5 - 8/7 1008 A 44 54 -10
McClatchy/Marist 8/2 - 8/4 807 RV 44 46 -2

Even Obama concedes he will lose 2012. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIUpjL6dbc8&feature=player_embedded

You know its bad when the guy running already has placed his concession prior to the elections even taking place.

Like I said Zealous opinion is just that. Zealous opinion!

Once again, disapproval doesn't equal an Obama loss in 2012. There are Democrats and liberals/progressives who are displeased with the way things are going, however, they will turn out to vote for him because they don't want any of the clowns that are running for the Republican nomination.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/president_obama_vs_republican_candidates.html

The only reason why he isn't winning against generic Republican is because the Gallop poll was taken before the debt ceiling stuff heated up. I'd be willing to bet the next poll Gallop releases that is more current will be much different.

GrimTuesday:

xpowderx:

GrimTuesday:

1. Low approval doesn't equal loss, this is because not only do you have Republicans who are displeased with how he is running things, but you also have liberals and progressives who are also displeased but will still vote for him because they know that the alternative is much worse.

2. You're quoting Rasmussen, who are notorious for being conservative leaning in their polling.

3. You're the one who in fantasy land if you think any of the clowns running for the nomination besides Romney and Huntsman even have a chance at winning in the general election. You have no one who will appeal to the independents and therefore, they will flock to Obama.

Like I said zealous opinion is just that. You dont like those facts ill add more: You can read every poll available. Its shows the dissapproval more than approval. This also includes a
pure democrat poll. Reality does speak for itself. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Gallup 8/11 - 8/13 1500 A 39 54 -15
Rasmussen Reports 8/11 - 8/13 1500 LV 44 54 -10
Democracy Corps (D) 8/6 - 8/10 1000 LV 45 50 -5
Washington Post 8/9 - 8/9 601 A 44 46 -2
FOX News 8/7 - 8/9 904 RV 42 48 -6
Reuters/Ipsos 8/4 - 8/8 1055 A 45 52 -7
CNN/Opinion Research 8/5 - 8/7 1008 A 44 54 -10
McClatchy/Marist 8/2 - 8/4 807 RV 44 46 -2

Even Obama concedes he will lose 2012. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIUpjL6dbc8&feature=player_embedded

You know its bad when the guy running already has placed his concession prior to the elections even taking place.

Like I said Zealous opinion is just that. Zealous opinion!

Once again, disapproval doesn't equal an Obama loss in 2012. There are Democrats and liberals/progressives who are displeased with the way things are going, however, they will turn out to vote for him because they don't want any of the clowns that are running for the Republican nomination.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/president_obama_vs_republican_candidates.html

The only reason why he isn't winning against generic Republican is because the Gallop poll was taken before the debt ceiling stuff heated up. I'd be willing to bet the next poll Gallop releases that is more current will be much different.

Yes and the S&P Downgrade.. Which of course regardless of naysayers is on Obamas watch. The first time in history even!. I know the left wants to blame the right. the right wants to blame the left. But here is a fact.. The republicans control only 54% of 1/3 of the government. The other two thirds are controlled by the democrats. Regardless of whom we claim blame. The one fact remains, Americas credit downgrade occurred during Obamas watch. That will not change. In fact it is one thing historians will remember. That he is the first president to have such a event occur in U.S history.

I understand your devotion, it is admirable. But, he has very little chance of beating any encumbant. As most Americans dont care who the new president is. Just that Obama is out! Even Sponge Bob can beat this president currently.

I'm not quite as trusting as the topic starter that independant voters and moderate republicans have enough sense to not vote for silly populistic rhetoric of republican candidates.

The only certainty is that the republicans are tearing themselves apart internally between the rise of tea party-type fanatics, and moderates. Still, looking at things like their reaction to the improvement of healthcare, and the debth ceiling, I'd say the tea party has already won that struggle conclusively. It may not even be a relevant factor anymore by the time the elections actually happen.

And in the meantime, who knows. They might pull another Donald Trump and fabricate some lies about Obama that get enough tv time for people to believe it.

xpowderx:
Even Obama concedes he will lose 2012. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIUpjL6dbc8&feature=player_embedded

You know its bad when the guy running already has placed his concession prior to the elections even taking place.

Did you even watch that video? He basically said that he will win or lose based on how he is perceived by the American People. That's far from conceding. Just because he said that when his approval rating was low, it doesn't mean that he's giving up. Are you stupid? (Don't answer that; it's a rhetorical question.)

xpowderx:

GrimTuesday:

xpowderx:

Like I said zealous opinion is just that. You dont like those facts ill add more: You can read every poll available. Its shows the dissapproval more than approval. This also includes a
pure democrat poll. Reality does speak for itself. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Gallup 8/11 - 8/13 1500 A 39 54 -15
Rasmussen Reports 8/11 - 8/13 1500 LV 44 54 -10
Democracy Corps (D) 8/6 - 8/10 1000 LV 45 50 -5
Washington Post 8/9 - 8/9 601 A 44 46 -2
FOX News 8/7 - 8/9 904 RV 42 48 -6
Reuters/Ipsos 8/4 - 8/8 1055 A 45 52 -7
CNN/Opinion Research 8/5 - 8/7 1008 A 44 54 -10
McClatchy/Marist 8/2 - 8/4 807 RV 44 46 -2

Even Obama concedes he will lose 2012. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIUpjL6dbc8&feature=player_embedded

You know its bad when the guy running already has placed his concession prior to the elections even taking place.

Like I said Zealous opinion is just that. Zealous opinion!

Once again, disapproval doesn't equal an Obama loss in 2012. There are Democrats and liberals/progressives who are displeased with the way things are going, however, they will turn out to vote for him because they don't want any of the clowns that are running for the Republican nomination.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/president_obama_vs_republican_candidates.html

The only reason why he isn't winning against generic Republican is because the Gallop poll was taken before the debt ceiling stuff heated up. I'd be willing to bet the next poll Gallop releases that is more current will be much different.

Yes and the S&P Downgrade.. Which of course regardless of naysayers is on Obamas watch. The first time in history even!. I know the left wants to blame the right. the right wants to blame the left. But here is a fact.. The republicans control only 54% of 1/3 of the government. The other two thirds are controlled by the democrats. Regardless of whom we claim blame. The one fact remains, Americas credit downgrade occurred during Obamas watch. That will not change. In fact it is one thing historians will remember. That he is the first president to have such a event occur in U.S history.

I understand your devotion, it is admirable. But, he has very little chance of beating any encumbant. As most Americans dont care who the new president is. Just that Obama is out! Even Sponge Bob can beat this president currently.

Did you even read the polls in the link? They Obama beating every single Republican by wide margins with the exception being Mitt Romney who he is only beating by about 3%. Also, the other 2/3s are controlled by the Democrats? That doesn't even make any sense considering the Supreme court is made up of three liberals, three conservatives, and one moderate who seems to vote with the conservatives a lot.

Obviously they do care considering they prefer Obama to EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE.

^This. Sure Obama doesn't do well in polls if he's the only name in them, but whenever they throw in another candidate as a counter to him, people always go straight for Obama. It clearly shows that while people don't exactly like Obama, they still think he's better than the alternative.

What you fail to understand powder is that it's not enough for Obama to have a low approval rating for him to lose the election, the other Candidate has to show that he or she is definetely the better choice to all the moderates and some of the liberals. If they can't do that, they'll chose to stick with the devil they know rather than take a chance on a candidate that doesn't impress them.

@xpowderx

I do not approve of Obama. In fact, I strongly disapprove of him. I will be voting for Obama unless Ron Paul wins or some mysterious new Republican that I've never heard of wins. Even if Ron Paul wins, I'll probably still vote for Obama...but I will consider Paul just because I think it would be hilarious.

Good point, OP, but do you honestly think the spineless scaredy-cats that the Democrats are will actually fight to bring this point home? Do you really think they will lay the blame where it belongs? You've seen how Obama and his administration operate. They will continue to bend over backwards, try to appease, try to be reasonable and all it will accomplish is their demise. Yeah, I was very confident in the past that Obama would win again and I still consider it more likely than the opposite outcome, but still, my hope is starting to wane.

Iowa Barack Obama 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z7iAXdHsU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GeADnTuA

Iowa Barack Obama today. Compared to 2007. Watch the video!!http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/15/obama-sets-out-on-midwestern-bus-tour/

Why many are calling it(Thanks to Mitt) 'MAGICAL MISERY BUS TOUR'

And now you know why Obama will lose in 2012 :-D

xpowderx:
Iowa Barack Obama 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z7iAXdHsU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GeADnTuA

Iowa Barack Obama today. Compared to 2007. Watch the video!!http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/15/obama-sets-out-on-midwestern-bus-tour/

Why many are calling it(Thanks to Mitt) 'MAGICAL MISERY BUS TOUR'

And now you know why Obama will lose in 2012 :-D

Well, of course Fox News thinks he's doomed to failure. What else is new? I'm far more curious at Congress's abysmal approval rating despite the Tea Parties heroic efforts on the battlefield.

Grand_Arcana:

xpowderx:
Iowa Barack Obama 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z7iAXdHsU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GeADnTuA

Iowa Barack Obama today. Compared to 2007. Watch the video!!http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/15/obama-sets-out-on-midwestern-bus-tour/

Why many are calling it(Thanks to Mitt) 'MAGICAL MISERY BUS TOUR'

And now you know why Obama will lose in 2012 :-D

Well, of course Fox News thinks he's doomed to failure. What else is new? I'm far more curious at Congress's abysmal approval rating despite the Tea Parties heroic efforts on the battlefield.

I wasnt talking about the Fox news rhetoric. I am talking about the lack of supporters or support Obama is receiving. Back then there were people in droves. Today..Obamas audience are very sparce. That is a tell tale sign of Obamas future. Regardless of what is said or not said about him. I did watch his speech this afternoon. Contained clapping is not a sign of a president going to be re-elected. Especially with the small to very small crowds greeting him.

xpowderx:

Grand_Arcana:

xpowderx:
Iowa Barack Obama 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z7iAXdHsU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GeADnTuA

Iowa Barack Obama today. Compared to 2007. Watch the video!!http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/15/obama-sets-out-on-midwestern-bus-tour/

Why many are calling it(Thanks to Mitt) 'MAGICAL MISERY BUS TOUR'

And now you know why Obama will lose in 2012 :-D

Well, of course Fox News thinks he's doomed to failure. What else is new? I'm far more curious at Congress's abysmal approval rating despite the Tea Parties heroic efforts on the battlefield.

I wasnt talking about the Fox news rhetoric. I am talking about the lack of supporters or support Obama is receiving. Back then there were people in droves. Today..Obamas audience are very sparce. That is a tell tale sign of Obamas future. Regardless of what is said or not said about him. I did watch his speech this afternoon. Contained clapping is not a sign of a president going to be re-elected. Especially with the small to very small crowds greeting him.

IMO, it's the lack of drive. Everyone got high on idealism, but we've sobered up and realized we had a more down-to-earth president then envisioned. It's easy for him to talk about possibilities, but he hardly brags about anything he's done. Look at how much of a braggart Trump was, as if it's so impressive to have filled for bankruptcy. It's not his policies (hate or love) it's his image, his lack of audacity. If these three years have taught me anything about politics, it's that posturing and vitriol win elections and support. Competence and experience mean fuck-all. Obama has done relatively little to maintain or create his image, thus his lack of support. Meanwhile, the Tea Party is new, exciting, and passionate. Emotional beings, we humans are.

Be that as it may, if the election happened this November, I don't know who would hypothetically win, and I'm beginning not to care. Yes, Obama's lukewarm, but the GOP and the Tea Party are near freezing at 33% and 31%, respectively:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/cnn-poll-grand-old-party-downgrade.php

And Congress is very much up for grabs, since the AA+ rating happened on the watch of our incumbents too. (77% disapproval in Congress and all) Hell, S&P blasts the state of policy making, rather than policies themselves, and would have been content with either spending cuts or tax raises. But Washington had to put on a show for the media rather than siting down and letting cooler heads (and math) prevail. I doubt anyone is keeping their seats.

(In closing, S&P can kindly fuck themselves for giving AAA ratings to risky pools of loans and blinding us to the looming crisis in the first place.)

I already know Michele Bachman is out because she signed a pledge that if she became president that she would ban gay marriage and porn. Porn for christ sakes! So go out there and vote for the porn! FOR THE PORN. /joking. Though seriously not a good move for her sake. She is absolutely insane and too idealist for any position in government

xpowderx:
Iowa Barack Obama 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z7iAXdHsU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GeADnTuA

Iowa Barack Obama today. Compared to 2007. Watch the video!!http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/15/obama-sets-out-on-midwestern-bus-tour/

Why many are calling it(Thanks to Mitt) 'MAGICAL MISERY BUS TOUR'

And now you know why Obama will lose in 2012 :-D

I do not believe Fox news is a credible source. If it was then Palin the nutcase would be president and all video games banned, plus every gay in quantanamo. war with every country that treats a US tourist poorly, Oh and abortions would be back alley coathanger operations. But we forget that there would be no work in the USA except defense contracts and all that funded with no taxes on the contractors, just on the workers. Oh taxes!!! Yeah anyone making over 250K single will pay nothing in taxes ever but anyone making less will pay 90% in taxes.

See what I did there? probably not.

So much for tax the rich and save the poor, lets all go back to serfs and assholes because that worked well! It not like there wasnt any revolutions caused by that or anything.

Anyway I started this thread and need to get on topic!

Obama has 1 fatal flaw, and 1 only. He caves in and does not demand compromise. The same truth can be said about the whole of the Democrap party but in lesser degrees. Obama is the guy you want to walk onto your used car lot. He gives in too easily. Take a look at the first proposals for a deficit reduction(rounded numbers so fuck off if you want exact). 4 trillion. Obama backed one. It was very similar to a Republicant version in numbers but what and where the cuts came from were slightly different. These all go to congress and senate and after they debated(pretended to) and played games it ends up being 2 trillion instead. no tax increases. both original plans included tax increases but in different areas and vastly different amounts. Obama the whole time was going "NOW NOW children, behave". and had no power at the time to intervene or change things. All the rest of Obamas proposals were shot down by the republican party because they refused to compromise. his proposal for healthcare for everyone is not what we have now. That was corrupted by the Republicn party because they refused to compromise.

who had 24 years out of 32 of the past 4 presidencies to reform healthcare. they did nothing substantial and 1 takes a bold step after to try and He was not a republican. Taxes lower for corporations and highest earners, yet fewer jobs 32 years later. Whos policy is that? 1 president had a surplus in the national budget, 3 had a deficit. who had 24 years out of 32 of the past 4 presidencies to balance the national budget? Why would any sane person vote for that track record?

And i only started this thread as a counter to republicants who claim they will win. They dont deserve to win much less participate.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Obama will win in 2012, but I don't think any of the Republicans being talked about right now have any chance. Someone could rise out of the shitstorm and make a serious run at the presidency but it's not going to be a prominent Tea Party candidate or a "fiscal conservative" that goes to a debate and answers a question with any combination of words including "yes, I would have let the nation default."

As much as it sucks, Obama might lose. If he does, it's only because of one thing; high unemployment.

In modern American politics, if the unemployment is high enough even a slug can beat the reincarnation of Teddy Roosevelt (who I consider to be the most badass politician ever lived).

Essentially, if unemployment increases in the 6 months before the election, Obama will likely lose. Otherwise, he's back in. I'm predicting that the American economy gets stuck in an Iraq-style quagmire, so it's quite likely that we're going to see a string of one-term presidents in the next decade or two.

JET1971:

xpowderx:
Iowa Barack Obama 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z7iAXdHsU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GeADnTuA

Iowa Barack Obama today. Compared to 2007. Watch the video!!http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/15/obama-sets-out-on-midwestern-bus-tour/

Why many are calling it(Thanks to Mitt) 'MAGICAL MISERY BUS TOUR'

And now you know why Obama will lose in 2012 :-D

I do not believe Fox news is a credible source. If it was then Palin the nutcase would be president and all video games banned, plus every gay in Guantanamo. war with every country that treats a US tourist poorly, Oh and abortions would be back alley coat hanger operations. But we forget that there would be no work in the USA except defense contracts and all that funded with no taxes on the contractors, just on the workers. Oh taxes!!! Yeah anyone making over 250K single will pay nothing in taxes ever but anyone making less will pay 90% in taxes.

See what I did there? probably not.

So much for tax the rich and save the poor, lets all go back to serfs and assholes because that worked well! It not like there wasn't any revolutions caused by that or anything.

Anyway I started this thread and need to get on topic!

Obama has 1 fatal flaw, and 1 only. He caves in and does not demand compromise. The same truth can be said about the whole of the Democrat party but in lesser degrees. Obama is the guy you want to walk onto your used car lot. He gives in too easily. Take a look at the first proposals for a deficit reduction(rounded numbers so fuck off if you want exact). 4 trillion. Obama backed one. It was very similar to a Republican version in numbers but what and where the cuts came from were slightly different. These all go to congress and senate and after they debated(pretended to) and played games it ends up being 2 trillion instead. no tax increases. both original plans included tax increases but in different areas and vastly different amounts. Obama the whole time was going "NOW NOW children, behave". and had no power at the time to intervene or change things. All the rest of Obama's proposals were shot down by the republican party because they refused to compromise. his proposal for healthcare for everyone is not what we have now. That was corrupted by the Republican party because they refused to compromise.

who had 24 years out of 32 of the past 4 presidencies to reform healthcare. they did nothing substantial and 1 takes a bold step after to try and He was not a republican. Taxes lower for corporations and highest earners, yet fewer jobs 32 years later. Who's policy is that? 1 president had a surplus in the national budget, 3 had a deficit. who had 24 years out of 32 of the past 4 presidencies to balance the national budget? Why would any sane person vote for that track record?

And i only started this thread as a counter to republicans who claim they will win. They don't deserve to win much less participate.

The Democratic party has never had in recent memory the power needed to stop the Republican party from taking the country hostage at any moment, because rules against taking the country hostage were never invented, because everybody assumed on good faith that nobody would fucking be dumb enough to do it.

Don't get me wrong, as much as I'd love the Democrats to call the Republican's bluff when they hold the country hostage (or for those you of the right that want to portray a situation where one side got 98% of what it wanted at the cost of our credit rating as them "compromising", fine, pretend my analogy is instead Republicans deciding to play deficit chicken with the middle class in between the speeding Semis and the Democrats swerved), really what would you have expected?

They didn't exactly have a choice if they didn't want a catastrophe. You basically had one crazy fuck in a storehouse full of explosives who's crazy enough to set it off unless he got his way. It doesn't matter if it's 1 crazy out of 2 people, or 1 crazy out of 200 people at that point.

Did you expect the Democrats to let the Republicans hold the debate up passed the due date (that it was already several dates past due anyways)? Let the Republicans default the country to make a political point, and our credit rating hit, at best B by the end of the week?

I mean, don't get me wrong, fuck Standard and Poor, because they're the cocksuckers that convinced the world that banks joining a clusterfuck circle jerk of selling loans endlessly like they were securities was financially solid. Banks were basically printing money out of thin air, and expecting it to work out, and this crack team that's supposedly there to whistle blow on the credit of nations was like "Yeah, I think that'll sort itself out without any problems!"

I think the United States should give about as much shit about their downgrade as much as white dude that marries a black girl gives a shit about his great uncle racist rants to the contrary.

But apparently people do care about the rating, in the market, that perception is all that matters in a game where perception is 90% of the battle. And I guarantee you that the US would have had no middle class in a week if it defaulted. The market dropped into 9/11 tragedy territory on the threat alone of a default.

That it's been rebounding at all as well as it has is a miracle.

As I said before in another topic, it was akin to a customer going into a bank when bills were due, then loudly debating with himself whether to pay the bank or rob it at gunpoint or not, as far as the world was concerned. I'm surprised it went as well as it DID.

I don't think that the Democratic party has any real power to stop the Republican party in these games of chicken/hostage. Even if they're a majority. They'd need to be a strong enough majority to stop a filibuster.

That's sort of the problem, is that, the Republicans can at any moment hold up the government as long as the Democrats don't have a super majority and they will get their way regardless of if they're a majority or not. And their 'way' isn't doing what constituents want, it's playing politics the game, and if this hasn't show the world that, nothing will. If this hasn't shown people that, then literally they could make that their goddamn party slogan and people would doubt it. When you get even them saying "We got 98% of what we wanted". Then when shit goes wrong they can blame Democrats, and their core base will be like "See, we shouldn't have compromised! That 2% is where everything went to hell!"

Nobody gives a shit about hearing about filibusters. Find a single conservative on this planet that will listen to you about filibusters or voting records.

JET1971:

xpowderx:
Iowa Barack Obama 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z7iAXdHsU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA1GeADnTuA

Iowa Barack Obama today. Compared to 2007. Watch the video!!http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/15/obama-sets-out-on-midwestern-bus-tour/

Why many are calling it(Thanks to Mitt) 'MAGICAL MISERY BUS TOUR'

And now you know why Obama will lose in 2012 :-D

I do not believe Fox news is a credible source. If it was then Palin the nutcase would be president and all video games banned, plus every gay in quantanamo. war with every country that treats a US tourist poorly, Oh and abortions would be back alley coathanger operations. But we forget that there would be no work in the USA except defense contracts and all that funded with no taxes on the contractors, just on the workers. Oh taxes!!! Yeah anyone making over 250K single will pay nothing in taxes ever but anyone making less will pay 90% in taxes.

See what I did there? probably not.

So much for tax the rich and save the poor, lets all go back to serfs and assholes because that worked well! It not like there wasnt any revolutions caused by that or anything.

Anyway I started this thread and need to get on topic!

Obama has 1 fatal flaw, and 1 only. He caves in and does not demand compromise. The same truth can be said about the whole of the Democrap party but in lesser degrees. Obama is the guy you want to walk onto your used car lot. He gives in too easily. Take a look at the first proposals for a deficit reduction(rounded numbers so fuck off if you want exact). 4 trillion. Obama backed one. It was very similar to a Republicant version in numbers but what and where the cuts came from were slightly different. These all go to congress and senate and after they debated(pretended to) and played games it ends up being 2 trillion instead. no tax increases. both original plans included tax increases but in different areas and vastly different amounts. Obama the whole time was going "NOW NOW children, behave". and had no power at the time to intervene or change things. All the rest of Obamas proposals were shot down by the republican party because they refused to compromise. his proposal for healthcare for everyone is not what we have now. That was corrupted by the Republicn party because they refused to compromise.

who had 24 years out of 32 of the past 4 presidencies to reform healthcare. they did nothing substantial and 1 takes a bold step after to try and He was not a republican. Taxes lower for corporations and highest earners, yet fewer jobs 32 years later. Whos policy is that? 1 president had a surplus in the national budget, 3 had a deficit. who had 24 years out of 32 of the past 4 presidencies to balance the national budget? Why would any sane person vote for that track record?

And i only started this thread as a counter to republicants who claim they will win. They dont deserve to win much less participate.

Well, so you know of all the Presidents I have seen in my lifetime only two I thought were good enough to be President. My first choice was Reagan, my other Clinton. IMO both of them have been the best presidents in my life. For different reasons of course.

As to Obama, I view him nothing more than BUSH II with some socialism mixed in. In many ways I see Obama much worse than Bush. My voting record. I voted Bush first term, I didnt vote second term. Obama has more than just that one problem. From the lefts view that is the problem that seems most active. Which would be called "Leadership"! I agree, Obama does lack leadership.

He also has the inability to understand economics. If he did understand economics, we would have had a budget back in august of 2010 when the House, Senate and admin were completely controlled by democrats. Instead the issue waited til this year.

Second: Obamas policies have added pressure to a already bad economy. Instead of his policies helping our economy, they are causing more damage. This is unlike Clinton, who faced the same problems in 94,95,96. Who proposed policies that helped our economy rebound.

Third: since we are wanting to use long periods of time, hows this!
The debt ceiling has been raised 43 times since 1962. The process of this is unquestionable. As it is directly influenced by the economy. Of those 43 times it has only been brought to the 12 hour period of default twice! Once by Clinton and once by this president. Clinton had a "plan". Obama did not! His plan was the plan made by others outside his administration(Boehner,Reid ect). A good example of failed leadership once again.

Fourth: when was the last time a budget has gone over its applicable date for more than 6 months? In the case of Obama, it was not even talked about til January of this year. Nothing happened til Mar 21st. In the course of history a budget going past the 6 month mark has only happened one time in the past 50 years.

Fifth: While some of you may disagree, it is under Obamas watch that the S&P has downgraded the U.S ever! Over 90 years! Today's news that Moody downgraded the U.S status again concerning Economic Growth is another hit! I am sure the markets will react once again to such news! For us who have 401k, this is another notch for us to place on the Obama re-election. Me and my wife have lost close to 50k dollars from both of our 401k's just in the past two weeks. You really think we are going to vote for Obama with that? We are not alone!

Sixth:Obama care.. You know the 14 trillion dollar numbing disaster that many on the left champion.. That is a complete disaster! The one that will be going to the supreme court. Will be most likely viewed as unconstitutional by them as well! Just think! In the lower courts one of Clintons own appointees declared it un-constitutional!

Im not going to make this post any longer. I have a very very large list of why this president is a failure. It would take close to 10 pages if I were to write them all down!

You are right! Obama is a FAILED leader! Why 2012 is important! As we have the opportunity to replace him. He is very close to a lockout from re-election. He has lower approval rating than both Bush's in 3rd year first term presidency. Pretty close to the lowest of all time for a one term president. After todays approval rating. Only one president in history was ever re-elected with those types of numbers. That was Harry.S.Truman.

Will we win a NEW president! Odds are very good we will!

I have no issue with obama being a 1 term president but I do have an issue with another Republican in office. I have far more doubts about a republican taking the helm again than Obama being weak at standing his ground or herding cats. history itself has proven that the republicans are full of shit.

I wrote my vote in the last election and it was Clinton, I am no Obama fan but on the same token I have no faith in the modern republican party and i am not a Democrat.

Never underestimate the shortness of the public memory. There's no guarantee that much of what's going on now will still be in the minds of the voters.

I think Republicans have a good chance if Obama doesn't suddenly turn the economy around in the next year. After the primary mud flinging focus is going to be put on Obama. There is plenty to say about him as president. He had the dream congress for 2 years yet failed to stabalize the economy or get most of his key agendas passed. He is also full of excuses and can be seen giving speeches more then having meetings. On key legislation he has put forward, its put a strain on citizens liberties.

I think he is currently a failure on being a positive president. Economically he was a disaster. When it comes to personal freedoms, he has done more damage then benefits.

JET1971:
I have no issue with obama being a 1 term president but I do have an issue with another Republican in office. I have far more doubts about a republican taking the helm again than Obama being weak at standing his ground or herding cats. history itself has proven that the republicans are full of shit.

I wrote my vote in the last election and it was Clinton, I am no Obama fan but on the same token I have no faith in the modern republican party and i am not a Democrat.

"history itself has proven that the republicans are full of shit"

No more or less than the Democrats are. I suppose it all comes down to what kind of shit you prefer. Personally I don't like the taste of shit so I became an independent.

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