African American privilege

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Over some time i have learned the error of my ways. I have come to understand that black in America means to have a privileged class. Here is a list of advantages that I have as a Black male that we all must work to tear down for the sake of equality in this country.

Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack of Black Privilege in the Age of Obama

1. I know that the success of Barack Obama has been unsettling for many White Americans--especially those whom would normally be the default choice for appointment to the highest levels of the United States government. I understand that this change can be quite upsetting. I promise to be more empathetic to your pain and to be more patient in my efforts to understand the roots of your discontent.

2. I have the luxury of knowing that I only have to be twice as good as my White colleagues and peers to be considered for the same position. My broad range of skills are an unfair advantage in the workplace because they have afforded me opportunities to take on tasks and responsibilities that my White colleagues have often been denied.

3. Positive character traits such as humility and hard work are cultivated in me because I know that I am held to a higher standard lest I be considered "lazy" or "arrogant" by my supervisors and peers.

4. People of color have long dominated the evening news. We are disproportionately represented in the coverage of many types of news stories, especially those that feature reports of violent, criminal behavior. Moreover, with Barack Obama's domination of the evening news, the hyper-visibility of people of color is further encouraged in the mainstream media. To remedy this, I will do my best to support an increase in the amount of attention given to White people in the evening news and by popular culture at large.

5. Black communities are afforded far more than their fair share of police protection. White communities can go days without seeing a police officer, but there is never any shortage of protection and service in Black neighborhoods. Our streets are constantly swept for crime and would be criminals. Surely we don't deserve such heightened attention, but we are privileged to receive it nonetheless.

6. People of color are given far more chances to go to prison and take the time to think about their crimes and rehabilitate themselves, than their white counterparts. Often White people are not held responsible for their criminal activity, thus denying the the moral value of learning from their mistakes.

7. I can go shopping most of the time knowing that I will be given extra attention. Furthermore, this extra attention to my safety through requests for identification when I would like to use a credit card or debit card are for my own protection. My fellow White shoppers are not afforded this level of concern or assistance.

8. In my professional life, I am blessed to be around people of a different race most of the time. This is very empowering and stimulating. Ultimately, this is an unearned advantage in a world that is increasingly diverse.

9. A great deal of attention is paid to the driving safety and comfort of Black Americans. The police are very interested in making sure that our cars are in working order, that we do not speed, and that we know exactly why we are driving in certain neighborhoods. It is very hard to get lost while driving in a White neighborhood if you are a Black American. By comparison, White people are treated as though they are invisible, anonymous, and unimportant while they are driving.

10. I am often asked to speak for people of my own race. With Barack Obama's election, I have to do this even more frequently. This privilege is unfair because it contributes to my intellectual, emotional, and social growth in ways that White people are not generally afforded.

11. Linked fate. Barack Obama's success or failure reflects on me personally. Likewise, my success or failure reflects on Barack Obama. This sense of connectedness and lack of relative anonymity is wonderfully empowering for all people of color.

12. If I join the Republican Party I will have a great advantage over my peers. I will receive funding to run against other Black people. I will be placed directly behind many famous Republicans when they give speeches. Black people who join the Republican Party are also guaranteed to be shown on TV at the Republican National Convention, and there is an excellent chance they will be asked to give a speech. Even if you can't win a single election, Black Republicans have job security for life despite their incompetence. This is wrong and unfair to the many White Republicans who have to work at least twice as hard for the same attention and visibility as their Black compatriots in the party.

13. I can find the literature, music, and movies that represent my culture neatly cordoned off and near the front of the store for my convenience.

14. I know that my race is always an asset and never a liability. At will, I can play the "race card" and win any debate or dispute.

Thats all well and good with sprawling Black Ghetto's around the states.

I think Affirmative Action is broken... its aim however at the time were noble at the time... and at the time all that could be gotten away with.

It needs to be changed to an equity and earnings based system and that quota shit needs to be scrapped.

Wow, talk about prejudice and racism... Feeqmatic gives us a good example here of what is called 'counter-racism'; someone has the idea they're worse off, and they respond to that by becoming hostile, and envisioning them being disadvantaged even further, even though that is not true.

Often such persons themselves harbour racist ideas because of that, resulting for instance in disdain shown by co-workers as Feeqmatic shows with his point three. Now everybody here knows that if you behave closed and hostile towards your co-workers, you won't be the most liked guy around, no matter what colour, size, gender, sexual or political orientation you are.

People like that sometimes radicalise and start to delude themselves. A good example is Feeqmatic's point 6. Being sent to prison is a direct consequence of committing a crime for which the punishment is prison time, that is the only cause. Yet, Feeqmatic tries to make us believe it's not guilt, but skin colour that gets us banged up. That's right people, if you're white and I kill someone, that is not murder in Feeqmatic's world. Therefore there are no white inmates at all, they all go free in Feeqmatic's world, while negroes are arrested for nothing and sent to prison by the dozen.


Oh well... Entertaining as the fantasies the OP wrote down may be, it is all utter nonsense of course.

Blablahb:
Wow, talk about prejudice and racism... Feeqmatic gives us a good example here of what is called 'counter-racism'; someone has the idea they're worse off, and they respond to that by becoming hostile, and envisioning them being disadvantaged even further, even though that is not true.

"Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack of Black Privilege" is clearly a reference to "Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack of White Privilege", which was written by a white anti-racism supporter named Peggy McIntosh.

And if you read them thoroughly, it very much seems like satire. Anyone who views being pulled over more frequently due to racial profiling as an "extra safety check for my race", and a positive could probably use some 'counter-racism'.

Yep, always look on the bright side of life. Perspective is everything!

OT: From prior history, I assume this is to be the basis for yet another "argument" for state racism against innocent white individuals - who are completely unrelated to any oppression or discrimination whatsoever - in education, employment, and social services?

Obviously, whatever problems with racism anyone who'd argue that might face should be ignored, as they are themselves discriminators, and hence unworthy of the slightest respect, empathy, or interest.

On the off chance that this doesn't somehow relate to AA though, do carry on with whatever it is you're... carrying on... with.

Pretty sure this is satire.

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" - Anatole France

Yeah, pretty much a satire post. I was almost about to tear into him until I realized that.

Blablahb:
Wow, talk about prejudice and racism... Feeqmatic gives us a good example here of what is called 'counter-racism'; someone has the idea they're worse off, and they respond to that by becoming hostile, and envisioning them being disadvantaged even further, even though that is not true.

Often such persons themselves harbour racist ideas because of that, resulting for instance in disdain shown by co-workers as Feeqmatic shows with his point three. Now everybody here knows that if you behave closed and hostile towards your co-workers, you won't be the most liked guy around, no matter what colour, size, gender, sexual or political orientation you are.

People like that sometimes radicalise and start to delude themselves. A good example is Feeqmatic's point 6. Being sent to prison is a direct consequence of committing a crime for which the punishment is prison time, that is the only cause. Yet, Feeqmatic tries to make us believe it's not guilt, but skin colour that gets us banged up. That's right people, if you're white and I kill someone, that is not murder in Feeqmatic's world. Therefore there are no white inmates at all, they all go free in Feeqmatic's world, while negroes are arrested for nothing and sent to prison by the dozen.


Oh well... Entertaining as the fantasies the OP wrote down may be, it is all utter nonsense of course.

Sure, it's dramatic, but it's not all actually utter nonsense. Most of it is satire. Racism towards African Americans (and others) is kind of institutionalized in our country. It's just so invisible to white people that when they see claims like this they immediately respond with hostility.

Point 6 is actually a poor one to point out. For many, many years there were laws that were simply more likely to place a black man in jail rather than a white man. Probably the most infamous example is the discrepancy in penalties for having cocaine.
Trafficking of 5 grams of crack cocaine nets you a minimum of 5 years jail time.
Oddly, you need 500 grams of powdered cocaine to get a minimum of 5 years.

Likewise, you need 50 grams of crack cocaine for a 10 year minimum sentence.
...and 5000 grams of powdered cocaine for a 10 year minimum sentence.

Guess which race was more likely to use crack cocaine when this law was made, and which was more likely to use powdered?

Additionally, ignoring (laughably rare considering how much America idolizes them) rags to riches stories, most people don't really make much progress out of their social class/income bracket. African-Americans started at the very bottom of the social ladder once granted citizenship, and many of them are still there. It's a well known fact that your standard of living is directly proportional to the chance that you will commit a violent crime.
Add that to the fact that most "white-collar crimes" either have incredibly lenient sentences, or white collar criminals are protected from a ton of negative consequences by hiding behind their corporations, and it's no surprise why there are way more African-Americans in prison.

Note this is just due to OLD institutions and laws that were created during a time when racism was acceptable. It doesn't even take into account the possibility for a cop or person of power to actively be targeting African-Americans.

tldr: Yes it's hyperbole (I SINCERELY hope the OP wasn't THAT serious), but the correct response is not to pretend that the problem doesn't exist at all. That's one of the worst things you can do.

I suspect that this is copied/pasted from elsewhere. Perhaps: http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Black_privilege

In any case, I sincerely hope that it's satire. If it's not, well..

nukethetuna:
Point 6 is actually a poor one to point out. For many, many years there were laws that were simply more likely to place a black man in jail rather than a white man.

Not to mention over-policing and disproportionate use of stop and search laws and random checks.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Police are more likely to look for or suspect crime from a black person, then they uncover more crime committed by black people, then they use the statistics thus gathered to justify looking for more crime amongst black people.

If you send a police to look for criminals amongst a given population, they will find more criminals amongst that population. This is due to disproportionate focus, not necessarily to actual crime rates.

We had a real problem with this in Britain for a while.

evilthecat:

nukethetuna:
Point 6 is actually a poor one to point out. For many, many years there were laws that were simply more likely to place a black man in jail rather than a white man.

Not to mention over-policing and disproportionate use of stop and search laws and random checks.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Police are more likely to look for or suspect crime from a black person, then they uncover more crime committed by black people, then they use the statistics thus gathered to justify looking for more crime amongst black people.

While I don't approve of unwarranted searches, Blacks do commit crime at a higher rate.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

feeqmatic:

2. I have the luxury of knowing that I only have to be twice as good as my White colleagues and peers to be considered for the same position.

There is some truth to this. On an individual level, hiring managers may be more likely to reject a black job applicant due to racist beliefs. However this may be somewhat countered by the fact that larger corporations like to hire a certain quota of minorities for fear of being sued if said minority group is underrepresented. that is why many large corporations supported the University of Michigan's affirmative action policies.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2003-02-14/news/0302131138_1_racial-quotas-affirmative-action-big-business

http://ns.umich.edu/Releases/2001/May01/r053101d.html

feeqmatic:

3. Positive character traits such as humility and hard work are cultivated in me because I know that I am held to a higher standard lest I be considered "lazy" or "arrogant" by my
supervisors and peers.

Humility and hard work have helped raise other minority groups out of poverty. It could work for blacks too if only more blacks adopted this policy. Too many blacks have adopted the perpetual victim mindset and have given up on self improvement. Now they're languishing in the ghetto under the mistaken belief that white people are keeping them down.

Are you guys seriously wondering whether or not this is satire?

Does any of that actually sound good, like being pulled over by cops all the time?

Of course it's satire. It was dripping with sarcasm, and this is the internet where sarcasm is virtually invisible.

Damien Granz:
Are you guys seriously wondering whether or not this is satire?

If I did, I'm sure Poe himself would slap me over the head for it. Besides, I remember Feeqmatic bringing up a satirical youtube movie a bit back, and passionately defending an anti-west 'the whites did everything' point of view.

Blablahb:

Damien Granz:
Are you guys seriously wondering whether or not this is satire?

If I did, I'm sure Poe himself would slap me over the head for it. Besides, I remember Feeqmatic bringing up a satirical youtube movie a bit back, and passionately defending an anti-west 'the whites did everything' point of view.

I don't remember my arguments being as simple or as one-sided as "the whites did everything." Funny how some will try distort an argument to make it seem unreasonable effectively making it easier to refute. Is almost like if a man were in a fight with another man, and instead of fighting each other, one man goes to town on a scarecrow man made of straw. Then, after thoroughly destrying this "straw man" if you will, he proclaims himself the winner of the fight, even though he never actually touched his real opponent.

I think there is a distinct name for this type of scurrilous activity within a debate but its label eludes me at the moment... i need to figure that one out.

JRslinger:

evilthecat:

nukethetuna:
Point 6 is actually a poor one to point out. For many, many years there were laws that were simply more likely to place a black man in jail rather than a white man.

Not to mention over-policing and disproportionate use of stop and search laws and random checks.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Police are more likely to look for or suspect crime from a black person, then they uncover more crime committed by black people, then they use the statistics thus gathered to justify looking for more crime amongst black people.

While I don't approve of unwarranted searches, Blacks do commit crime at a higher rate.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

feeqmatic:

2. I have the luxury of knowing that I only have to be twice as good as my White colleagues and peers to be considered for the same position.

There is some truth to this. On an individual level, hiring managers may be more likely to reject a black job applicant due to racist beliefs. However this may be somewhat countered by the fact that larger corporations like to hire a certain quota of minorities for fear of being sued if said minority group is underrepresented. that is why many large corporations supported the University of Michigan's affirmative action policies.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2003-02-14/news/0302131138_1_racial-quotas-affirmative-action-big-business

http://ns.umich.edu/Releases/2001/May01/r053101d.html

feeqmatic:

3. Positive character traits such as humility and hard work are cultivated in me because I know that I am held to a higher standard lest I be considered "lazy" or "arrogant" by my
supervisors and peers.

Humility and hard work have helped raise other minority groups out of poverty. It could work for blacks too if only more blacks adopted this policy. Too many blacks have adopted the perpetual victim mindset and have given up on self improvement. Now they're languishing in the ghetto under the mistaken belief that white people are keeping them down.

I cant disagree with really anything that you have said here. Its all true, especially your last comment about perpetual victim mindset. But it is important to keep in mind that we are not making this up. I think that is the biggest issue on both sides of this argument. Everyone is screaming that there is a problem but also denying their part in fixing it.

There's this book by Martin Luther King Jr.'s speechwriter Clerence B. Jones. Read the intro please.

feeqmatic:
Over some time i have learned the error of my ways. I have come to understand that black in America means to have a privileged class. Here is a list of advantages that I have as a Black male that we all must work to tear down for the sake of equality in this country.

Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack of Black Privilege in the Age of Obama

1. I know that the success of Barack Obama has been unsettling for many White Americans--especially those whom would normally be the default choice for appointment to the highest levels of the United States government. I understand that this change can be quite upsetting. I promise to be more empathetic to your pain and to be more patient in my efforts to understand the roots of your discontent.

Only thing that I find upsetting about Barack Obama is his political views. He could be a white, All-American, salt of the Earth guy and I would not feel any differently towards him.

feeqmatic:
2. I have the luxury of knowing that I only have to be twice as good as my White colleagues and peers to be considered for the same position. My broad range of skills are an unfair advantage in the workplace because they have afforded me opportunities to take on tasks and responsibilities that my White colleagues have often been denied.

I assume you have experienced this yourself and are not simply projecting based on common misconceptions? Yeah there is still bias out there but its decreasing rapidly and thats a great thing. Another generation or two and race will be just as arbitrary in the workplace as it should be.

feeqmatic:
3. Positive character traits such as humility and hard work are cultivated in me because I know that I am held to a higher standard lest I be considered "lazy" or "arrogant" by my supervisors and peers.

I think that applies to most everyone now regardless of race. Its more of the older generation seeing the younger generation as lazy...to an extent they are right about us.

feeqmatic:
4. People of color have long dominated the evening news. We are disproportionately represented in the coverage of many types of news stories, especially those that feature reports of violent, criminal behavior. Moreover, with Barack Obama's domination of the evening news, the hyper-visibility of people of color is further encouraged in the mainstream media. To remedy this, I will do my best to support an increase in the amount of attention given to White people in the evening news and by popular culture at large.

Yes yes the media culture is dominated by people with liberal points of view and race seems to be an obsession of the left. As a consequence our society has over time come to associate violence, poverty, and crime with the African-Americans. I think this stereotype is overblown and that is unfortunate. On the other hand I have seen statistic after statistic out there showing that blacks earn notably less than white people do, they make up a larger than proportional percentage of the prison population, less go to college, there are more cases of single parents and teenage pregnancy in the black population...I hate to say it but you cant chalk that all up to racism. There comes a point where personal responsibility plays a major factor in all of these and it starts with the family. It has nothing to do with race.

feeqmatic:
5. Black communities are afforded far more than their fair share of police protection. White communities can go days without seeing a police officer, but there is never any shortage of protection and service in Black neighborhoods. Our streets are constantly swept for crime and would be criminals. Surely we don't deserve such heightened attention, but we are privileged to receive it nonetheless.

Well statistically the police ARE more likely to encounter crime in poor neighborhoods which in most areas are primarily inhabited by black people (actually here in Texas its mostly Hispanics). Again I dont think being of a certain race makes you more or less likely to commit a crime, its the circumstances that you live in which does that.

feeqmatic:
6. People of color are given far more chances to go to prison and take the time to think about their crimes and rehabilitate themselves, than their white counterparts. Often White people are not held responsible for their criminal activity, thus denying the the moral value of learning from their mistakes.

Actually in terms of raw numbers the vast majority of the US prison population is white. Of course thats because the majority of Americans are white (for now). I think what you mean to say is that a higher percentage of the prison population is black than should be accepted and yes thats a problem but I dont think that has much if anything to do with race anymore.

feeqmatic:
7. I can go shopping most of the time knowing that I will be given extra attention. Furthermore, this extra attention to my safety through requests for identification when I would like to use a credit card or debit card are for my own protection. My fellow White shoppers are not afforded this level of concern or assistance.

Maybe its a thing that the older generation does. I have worked in retail before and I dont give any extra attention to anyone based on race. Now if you come in there wearing your pants around your knees I might keep an eye on you even if you are as pale as they come.

feeqmatic:
8. In my professional life, I am blessed to be around people of a different race most of the time. This is very empowering and stimulating. Ultimately, this is an unearned advantage in a world that is increasingly diverse.

I dont get it. Most of the American population is white (for now) so its to be expected that most of the people around you are likely to be white...or hispanic.

feeqmatic:
9. A great deal of attention is paid to the driving safety and comfort of Black Americans. The police are very interested in making sure that our cars are in working order, that we do not speed, and that we know exactly why we are driving in certain neighborhoods. It is very hard to get lost while driving in a White neighborhood if you are a Black American. By comparison, White people are treated as though they are invisible, anonymous, and unimportant while they are driving.

Ok lets make a deal, I wont pretend that I know what its like to be black and you dont pretend you know what its like to be white.

feeqmatic:
10. I am often asked to speak for people of my own race. With Barack Obama's election, I have to do this even more frequently. This privilege is unfair because it contributes to my intellectual, emotional, and social growth in ways that White people are not generally afforded.

Yeah thats a strange quirk of society that members of a minority are treated as if they all think about the same way on issues and only white people have different ideas. Clearly this is not the case.

feeqmatic:
11. Linked fate. Barack Obama's success or failure reflects on me personally. Likewise, my success or failure reflects on Barack Obama. This sense of connectedness and lack of relative anonymity is wonderfully empowering for all people of color.

Its very sad that you feel that way because its not true. Obama's failure doesnt and shouldnt reflect badly on African-Americans just because Obama is half black.

feeqmatic:
12. If I join the Republican Party I will have a great advantage over my peers. I will receive funding to run against other Black people. I will be placed directly behind many famous Republicans when they give speeches. Black people who join the Republican Party are also guaranteed to be shown on TV at the Republican National Convention, and there is an excellent chance they will be asked to give a speech. Even if you can't win a single election, Black Republicans have job security for life despite their incompetence. This is wrong and unfair to the many White Republicans who have to work at least twice as hard for the same attention and visibility as their Black compatriots in the party.

ROFL um no. I am a former Republican and I can tell you that the majority of Republicans are Conservative and the majority of Conservatives, might be curious why you are there (80% to 90% of black voters typically vote Democrat) but after the initial curiosity nobody is going to care much what color your skin happens to be. Its whats in your head and your heart that is important.

We Conservatives leave it to the left to have an obsession about race.

feeqmatic:
13. I can find the literature, music, and movies that represent my culture neatly cordoned off and near the front of the store for my convenience.

Have no idea what this is about so no comment.

feeqmatic:
14. I know that my race is always an asset and never a liability. At will, I can play the "race card" and win any debate or dispute.

Certainly seem to be complaining a lot then.

feeqmatic:

I cant disagree with really anything that you have said here. Its all true, especially your last comment about perpetual victim mindset. But it is important to keep in mind that we are not making this up. I think that is the biggest issue on both sides of this argument. Everyone is screaming that there is a problem but also denying their part in fixing it.

In a previous thread I think we agreed that the necessary change will have to come from inside the Black community.

Education being one of the important issues, there are many schools that could use improvement. Improvement not just in the sense of more money. Waiting for Superman claimed that the teachers unions were protecting bad teachers. I also remember you saying you didn't like this documentary, but I don't think you said why.

Fixing the schools will be a difficult task. As for the problem of motivating black kids to believe they can succeed academically, this I think can be fixed partially by better run schools.(Example: The Dunbar High School in the 1st 1/2 of the 20th century)Then those who say that studying hard is "acting white" need to be dismissed as the fools they are.

Lastly I'd like to know which political party you think is better regarding education and why?
The Democrat politicians are fully in the grasp of teachers unions that put their job security way above the kids education quality. The Republicans are on a better track with school vouchers. The parents that care about their kids education know which local schools are good and which are bad. Sending more kids to the better schools, even if some are private is better for the kids than just throwing money at the worst public schools without even investigating why they're bad. Regarding education this is why voting for democrats is worse for kids education IMO.

feeqmatic:
Everyone is screaming that there is a problem but also denying their part in fixing it.

This honestly is the confusing thing.
Why defend a broken policy outright?

As I said above. Affirmative Action is broken and outdated. However back when it was initiated if the policy was to give money and job opportunities to the poor... people would have been accusing the leaders of being communists! At the time the poorest largest portion of the population were the blacks so... give it to them.

Affirmative Action needs to be REPLACED with a wealth based system that is not race specific so as to not waste money on those who don't need it, and so as not to discriminate against poor Caucasian, Hispanic and Asian's in the USA. And preferably the quotas need to vanish too.

I don't think it should just be scrapped though. This system is better than nothing at all...

JRslinger:
While I don't approve of unwarranted searches, Blacks do commit crime at a higher rate.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

While you've correctly picked one of the few types of crime which is highly resistant to statistical influence, it's hardly the whole story. Homicide is not always a good indicator or predictor of overall crime rates.

Only c20% of the overall convicted prison population in the United States (which as you probably know has the highest incarceration rate in the world) are for violent crimes, a fraction of those are for homicide.

You're comparing the tips of icebergs here.

JRslinger:
Humility and hard work have helped raise other minority groups out of poverty. It could work for blacks too if only more blacks adopted this policy. Too many blacks have adopted the perpetual victim mindset and have given up on self improvement. Now they're languishing in the ghetto under the mistaken belief that white people are keeping them down.

While I understand this is supposed to be helpful, I think you've enormously harmed your argument by taking the most patronizing tone I think I've ever heard applied to race politics.

You probably don't even realize you've done so and I guess we should expect this sometimes, the claim to inhabit and offering simplistic explanations for other people's problems is a big part of what privilege is.

If the vast majority of American white people think like you do, I'm surprised any black person makes it 'out of the ghetto'.

Seekster:
Ok lets make a deal, I wont pretend that I know what its like to be black and you dont pretend you know what its like to be white.

Being white isn't a 'thing' and you know it. Being white simply means being treated as a normal person would without the overlying assumptions of race. no-one has to 'pretend' to know what it's like to be white, they just have to pretend that their skin colour doesn't matter.

JRslinger:
Lastly I'd like to know which political party you think is better regarding education and why?
The Democrat politicians are fully in the grasp of teachers unions that put their job security way above the kids education quality.

Well, fortunately these goals coincide, since you can't have a good school without teachers, and can't raise quality by sacking people (unless the incompetent ones are singled out and gotten rid of) in one part and using the money to improve education elsewhere.

Besides, unions only get militant if conditions for their people are poor. Invest adequately in schools and the need for that will go away, and any union can be made reasonable.

JRslinger:
The Republicans are on a better track with school vouchers. The parents that care about their kids education know which local schools are good and which are bad. Sending more kids to the better schools, even if some are private is better for the kids than just throwing money at the worst public schools without even investigating why they're bad. Regarding education this is why voting for democrats is worse for kids education IMO.

Why they're bad is well known: lack of funding. Teaching children is an entire field of science. One only has to purchase and read the relevant books, all the research has already been done. If teachers don't know, often it's the quality of their education that's lacking, primarily.

Because of the amount of disinvestment, there will also be secondary effects such as a culture of failure among pupils, but such things can not be remedied without funding a chance to succeed.


What the republicans basically want to do with their vouchers is mop up a little water off the floor, while keeping the tap open. Fight the symptoms, but don't fix the problem.

Blablahb:
Wow, talk about prejudice and racism... Feeqmatic gives us a good example here of what is called 'counter-racism'; someone has the idea they're worse off, and they respond to that by becoming hostile, and envisioning them being disadvantaged even further, even though that is not true.

I am going to be super cereal right now... who in the hell came up with counter-racism, reverse-racism, or whatever bull shit phrase for specific racisms? Racism is racism; it doesn't matter who it's perpetrated against. Conviniently, it's racist to assume that racism against a specific race could be considered a special type of racism.

But while we're making up terms, I'm going to coin racisist, one who perpetuates racisism; the act of making race an issue. Hmm... I'm seeing a lot of racisists out there. I guess I should suggest reverse-racisism; the act of not giving a shit about race as an issue.

DevilWithaHalo:
I am going to be super cereal right now... who in the hell came up with counter-racism, reverse-racism, or whatever bull shit phrase for specific racisms? Racism is racism; it doesn't matter who it's perpetrated against. Conviniently, it's racist to assume that racism against a specific race could be considered a special type of racism.

Yep, true. The term is mostly just to shine a light on the motives. Nobody should claim it is essentially different, or less bad than 'normal' racism.

It's fairly important to realise it, because counter-racists think different from your regular racist. The normal racist idea goes like 'race X is better than race Y', whereas the counter racist has the perceptions of being discriminated against, or feels a need to 'defend' his ethnic group, and becomes racist as a result.

Counter-racists can't be fixed by getting it into their thick skulls that people aren't more or less because of race.

feeqmatic:
13. I can find the literature, music, and movies that represent my culture neatly cordoned off and near the front of the store for my convenience.

[citation needed]

evilthecat:

While I understand this is supposed to be helpful, I think you've enormously harmed your argument by taking the most patronizing tone I think I've ever heard applied to race politics.
You probably don't even realize you've done so and I guess we should expect this sometimes, the claim to inhabit and offering simplistic explanations for other people's problems is a big part of what privilege is.

If my direct statement seemed patronizing, it's probably because most people are afraid to say anything UN-PC about race or buy into the lie that minorities shouldn't be held responsible for negative life outcomes. This large scale abandonment of personal responsibility and embracement of the victims mentality is what can be described as a moral poverty that contributes to economic poverty. An example of this is the destruction of the black family over the past century. In the early 20th century despite the popularity of the KKK and racism written into the law, the black family was largely intact. Now most Blacks are born out of wedlock. You can point out that the white marriage rate has declined too, but it's not to the same extent. You can't simply blame racism for this trend. Also you can't simply blame economic poverty either because the black poverty rate is lower now than it was many decades ago.

So why does this moral poverty exist. I'll say it's due to both the expanded welfare state that sometimes rewards bad choices and the decline of close knit communities combined with traditional morality. Decades ago a man or woman who had a kid out of marriage would be shunned by the community. Now there's not much stigma to it.

evilthecat:

If the vast majority of American white people think like you do, I'm surprised any black person makes it 'out of the ghetto'.

I think that if more people thought like me, then more blacks would escape the ghetto.

feeqmatic:
-snippedy snip-

Glad to hear you've realised how horribly over-priveleged you are. The guilt should start settling in soon; I expect you'll find yourself compelled to start worrying in earnest about the rights of minorities, even ones who don't seem to be being particularly oppressed (there's always injustice, you just have to look hard enough). Might I recommend taking part in some gay pride parades even though you're straight, or maybe sympathising with women over their period pains?

Come, my unjustly priveleged friend, and together let us try wretchedly to atone for our sinful accident of birth, and let us not stop until Venezuelan History Month is firmly embedded in every school syllabus! Only when everybody feels as guilty as we do, will equality be achieved!

ravenshrike:

feeqmatic:
13. I can find the literature, music, and movies that represent my culture neatly cordoned off and near the front of the store for my convenience.

[citation needed]

Wait, what do you mean citation needed? You've never seen this in a bookstore? The black literature or culture section? I've seen it in plenty of stores. I don't go in those sections but I've seen them.

JRslinger:

So why does this moral poverty exist. I'll say it's due to both the expanded welfare state that sometimes rewards bad choices and the decline of close knit communities combined with traditional morality. Decades ago a man or woman who had a kid out of marriage would be shunned by the community. Now there's not much stigma to it.

Having kids out of marriage isn't that big of a deal and isn't some morally bankrupt option. The problem is made when single parents or even both parents struggle to hold enough jobs to feed the family while balancing raising kids. Many decide to focus on the first option instead of the latter.

A second part of the problem would be the countless questionable role models many black youth follow.

A third part of the problem is that many of the inner city or poor crowds feel preyed on by those higher up. Maybe because they've seen so many arrested for petty nonsense while huge corporate crimes remain ignored. Maybe it's because they still feel or sense being looked down on by those outside their social circles. It could also be first hand experience seeing larger businesses screw over local businesses or the environment they live in.

Maybe many don't try to make it in the system because it feels built against them anyway. Which isn't necessarily a false view. Wellfare becomes the "oh well I still have that" option that seems more and more viable when moving up seems so impossible.

A final factor to consider is how much mental illness do you think is rampant in very poor communities that can easily witness violence. How many minds degrade from problems that need serious help? Help they can't get. People with severe depression, schizophrenia, bipolar, anxiety disorders and so on that never get any kind of counseling and treatment. How do they move up? Can they in their state?

Nocturnal Gentleman:

ravenshrike:

feeqmatic:
13. I can find the literature, music, and movies that represent my culture neatly cordoned off and near the front of the store for my convenience.

[citation needed]

Wait, what do you mean citation needed? You've never seen this in a bookstore? The black literature or culture section? I've seen it in plenty of stores. I don't go in those sections but I've seen them.

Hmmm, nope, never seen it. Not in the 5 Barnes and Nobles(including the one in Chicago by the Oriental Theater) I've been in multiple times, not in the one Borders I went to before it closed, and not even in the tiny bookstore that's in town. Now, I can't actually say anything about how the CD collection in the Barnes and Nobles with that section are organized, because I never went there, but no big pattern with book placement.

ravenshrike:

Nocturnal Gentleman:

ravenshrike:

[citation needed]

Wait, what do you mean citation needed? You've never seen this in a bookstore? The black literature or culture section? I've seen it in plenty of stores. I don't go in those sections but I've seen them.

Hmmm, nope, never seen it. Not in the 5 Barnes and Nobles(including the one in Chicago by the Oriental Theater) I've been in multiple times, not in the one Borders I went to before it closed, and not even in the tiny bookstore that's in town. Now, I can't actually say anything about how the CD collection in the Barnes and Nobles with that section are organized, because I never went there, but no big pattern with book placement.

You might not have seen it because the sections aren't that big. It's really like a small subsection. If you're looking for big labels like the Romance or Mystery book sections you'll probably never find it. Also, it depends on where you live. I've found some stores have the section while that same store in another state or city might not. It's kind of an optional section.

JRslinger:
Also you can't simply blame economic poverty either because the black poverty rate is lower now than it was many decades ago.

Compared to what it was decades ago? Probably not the best comparison to make, since they're really not that far removed from economic slavery (as in, not technically slaves but segregated to a lower social class).

JRslinger:
So why does this moral poverty exist. I'll say it's due to both the expanded welfare state that sometimes rewards bad choices and the decline of close knit communities combined with traditional morality. Decades ago a man or woman who had a kid out of marriage would be shunned by the community. Now there's not much stigma to it.

I don't see how stigma attached to shunning people who have kids outside of marriage is in anyway a good thing. I have never encountered any sort of prejudice that can be considered productive, and I don't see how this is any different.
Also, that kind of social stigma is a great way to fuck with a kid by telling him/her that his/her very existence is a horrible mistake. Sure helps with self esteem.

Nocturnal Gentleman:
You might not have seen it because the sections aren't that big. It's really like a small subsection. If you're looking for big labels like the Romance or Mystery book sections you'll probably never find it. Also, it depends on where you live. I've found some stores have the section while that same store in another state or city might not. It's kind of an optional section.

My local target has it's own little "Ethnic Hair Care" aisle. I honestly don't get why it's not with the rest of the hair stuff, it's tiny.

you forgot one, your ancestors ran away from my ancestors' plantations, costing them thousands of dollars in lost labor. taking into account interest rates and inflation, you personally owe me several billion dollars. I take cash and traveler's checks.

feeqmatic:

JRslinger:

evilthecat:

Not to mention over-policing and disproportionate use of stop and search laws and random checks.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Police are more likely to look for or suspect crime from a black person, then they uncover more crime committed by black people, then they use the statistics thus gathered to justify looking for more crime amongst black people.

While I don't approve of unwarranted searches, Blacks do commit crime at a higher rate.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

feeqmatic:

2. I have the luxury of knowing that I only have to be twice as good as my White colleagues and peers to be considered for the same position.

There is some truth to this. On an individual level, hiring managers may be more likely to reject a black job applicant due to racist beliefs. However this may be somewhat countered by the fact that larger corporations like to hire a certain quota of minorities for fear of being sued if said minority group is underrepresented. that is why many large corporations supported the University of Michigan's affirmative action policies.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2003-02-14/news/0302131138_1_racial-quotas-affirmative-action-big-business

http://ns.umich.edu/Releases/2001/May01/r053101d.html

feeqmatic:

3. Positive character traits such as humility and hard work are cultivated in me because I know that I am held to a higher standard lest I be considered "lazy" or "arrogant" by my
supervisors and peers.

Humility and hard work have helped raise other minority groups out of poverty. It could work for blacks too if only more blacks adopted this policy. Too many blacks have adopted the perpetual victim mindset and have given up on self improvement. Now they're languishing in the ghetto under the mistaken belief that white people are keeping them down.

I cant disagree with really anything that you have said here. Its all true, especially your last comment about perpetual victim mindset. But it is important to keep in mind that we are not making this up. I think that is the biggest issue on both sides of this argument. Everyone is screaming that there is a problem but also denying their part in fixing it.

I think the biggest issue on both sides has nothing to with with how dark someones tan is but rather the refusal to listen to what people are actually saying. I don;t mean what many think they hear, but the meaning of the words themselves. I am not even white, but repeatedly everytime I attempted to discuss why I did not support Obama, I get the whole" you just can;t stand to have a black man president" Even worse when blacks oppose Obama they get all this " race traitor" crap that is BS. It is BS.

~I can't stand to have a leader who thinks it is okay to raise the price of everything we use own and buy.
~I can't stand to have a leader who rides the backs of the poor into office all the while using abusing and then losing them when it really matters. The man is a LIAR. Liars come in all colors.
~ I can't stand to have a leader who is so without honor that he would openly promote Insurance mandates and 80 billion dollar deals with Pharma as Universial healthcare.
~ I can't stand to have a leader who fails to uphold their sworn oath to uphold and protect the constitution from all threats foreign and domestic.
...Just to name a few. Much of this was also my reason for opposing Bush, as well as my reason for opposing Obama. He is just another prepackaged candidate sold to the public like the cool new toy trend are on commercials. You know what I mean. They make it look all bad ass, then you get it home and you think, "damn this sucks, and they suck for making such a shitty product look good on tv." Then you want to just go pull a bloo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w1HE6B7Y8w

This post is completely brilliant. I wish I could say the replies surprise me, but they don't.

You're brave, OP. Any time I try challenging Escapists on their privilege relative to me I just end up banging my head on a wall and wishing the liquor store was open in the middle of the night. (I think I may have some bad whiskey around here somewhere, want some?)

JRslinger:
Now most Blacks are born out of wedlock. You can point out that the white marriage rate has declined too, but it's not to the same extent. You can't simply blame racism for this trend. Also you can't simply blame economic poverty either because the black poverty rate is lower now than it was many decades ago.

But you can point out that this is utterly irrelevant to economic issues of poverty.

Who the hell uses the term 'wedlock' any more?

JRslinger:
Decades ago a man or woman who had a kid out of marriage would be shunned by the community. Now there's not much stigma to it.

And this is a 'bad' thing?

Decades ago, a man who beat his spouse would be considered all well and good, and his wife would be shunned if she tried to divorce him. I'd like some evidence that marriage is in any way indicative of 'moral wealth' as opposed to what it seems to be, the most dangerous and abusive place in our society.

You're far more likely to be killed, raped or physically assaulted by your spouse than you are by a random gang of feckless black people, on what basis are you even trying to claim that marriage is a moral institution?

JRslinger:
I think that if more people thought like me, then more blacks would escape the ghetto.

I'm sure you'd be there to pat them on the head and tell them (quietly of course, we wouldn't want to embarrass them) how good it is that they've overcome their disability to work themselves up from nothing, just like you did when you had to pay off your student loan or save up for your first mortgage. My golly, it's almost like they're real, civilized people!

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