MSNBC: New York police are investigating as bias crimes four Molotov cocktail attacks on Sunday night including one against a mosque with 75 people inside and another against a Hindu place of worship.
First of all, thankfully no one was injured.
It's too early to say much about these attacks at the moment, but the police are calling them "bias crimes". And I would not be surprised in the slightest if the attack on the Hindu home was born out of an ignorant person's inability to distinguish between Muslims and Hindus (there is some precedent for this- IIRC after 9/11 an Indian man was assaulted in Texas because the attacker mistook him for a Muslim man. Apparently in the minds of some Americans, brown skin is "close enough".) If these were attacks targetting American Muslims, then I see no reason that these attacks should not be declared terrorism, though I'm almost certain they will not be. But let's save that discussion for when we know more of the facts.
Anyway, I went over to FOX News to see how they were representing the case. While they had a very misleading headline ("possible" arson, when the first line clearly shows it was arson. Also no mention of possible anti-Muslim bias) and were very short of facts, it wasn't really too bad by FOX News propaganda standards.
But what was interesting to me was the comments section. I'll provide some excerpts:
jmmossen: Payback is a bltch.
azdart: I guess we can forgive them, for not using Napalm.
jefhd: Adds a touch of the old country to the neighborhood. Maybe someone just got a little homesick.
ll: Not good BUT, when one openly belongs to anti-Western terror groups, people might attack you.
As of this time of writing, the only clear criticism of the attacks comes from ua777skipper, who says:
ua777skipper: not nice..... we can beat them fairly since this is our home turf
Apparently his problem is not that Muslims were targeted, but just that the attacks weren't "fair". Regardless of the motivations of the person who carried out the attacks, it's clear there is a body of people who not only want them to have been motivated out of bigotry, but think that if they were it would be a good thing.
For the past several years we have been a country where politicians, pundits, and agitators have profited personally, politically, and economically by demonizing Muslims. And these appeals to fear have led to Americans forsaking the very principles they believe make this country great. People tried to ban the Park51/Cordoba House by branding it a "Ground Zero Mosque", conveniently forgetting America's deep commitment to religious freedom. Herman Cain openly practiced bigotry, proclaiming that any Muslim serving in his cabinet would have to take a loyalty test and proclaiming without evidence that more than half of American Muslims are extremists. Apparently taking a shit on the Bill of Rights while campaigning for the highest office of the land was not enough to sink his campaign however, as it was only news that he had an affair that did him in. The NYPD is now covertly gathering intelligence on Muslim neighborhoods, bringing into question if one's religious beliefs can exempt one from the right to privacy, due process, and equal protection under the law. Even among the enlightened people on this very forum, people endorsed a corporation joining in with a small Christian group trying to silence a television show that portrayed Muslims in a non-negative light.
Now I expect that the police will investigate these attacks and the perpetrator will eventually be brought to justice. And most of the public will condemn him, protesting that they are nothing like him. "He broke the law!" they'll protest. "Obviously everyone should know what crosses the line." But then I think the same old voices will go back to dehumanizing anyone with a Koran and appealing to fear and ignorance. They will go back to pretending that hatred and violence are just mental disorders that arise in a vaccuum, as we turn our backs on more and more of the principles that are supposed to make us great.
If America goes into decline, it won't be because Republicans or Democrats took office, it won't be because of debts or taxes or spending policy, and it won't be because of China. It will be because when it really mattered, we gave up. Because we enjoyed being scared, angry, and hateful. Because in the end we thought supporting our petty insular personal clubs was more important than liberty.
*I don't know enough about this attack, it's context, the mosque or it's attacker to have a strong opinion about this*
They will go back to pretending that hatred and violence are just mental disorders that arise in a vaccuum
I love how Islamic violence is totally unrelated to Islam and the surrounding culture but caused by our racism and bigotry, and how violence ágainst Islam is álso caused by our racism and bigotry and cannot possibly be blamed on Muslims.
9:29
Sahih International Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Danyal: *I don't know enough about this attack, it's context, the mosque or it's attacker to have a strong opinion about this*
They will go back to pretending that hatred and violence are just mental disorders that arise in a vaccuum
I love how Islamic violence is totally unrelated to Islam and the surrounding culture but caused by our racism and bigotry, and how violence ágainst Islam is álso caused by our racism and bigotry and cannot possibly be blamed on Muslims.
9:29
Sahih International Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Danyal: *I don't know enough about this attack, it's context, the mosque or it's attacker to have a strong opinion about this*
They will go back to pretending that hatred and violence are just mental disorders that arise in a vaccuum
I love how Islamic violence is totally unrelated to Islam and the surrounding culture but caused by our racism and bigotry, and how violence ágainst Islam is álso caused by our racism and bigotry and cannot possibly be blamed on Muslims.
9:29
Sahih International Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Not any better than attacking Christians for various bits of the Bible.
And what's the problem with attacking Christians for various bits of the Bible? I attack communists for bits of Marx's Manifesto, I attack capitalists for bits of Adam Smith's book, I attack religious people for bits of their 'holy' scriptures. Explain to me how it makes sense in context or tell me you dismiss that part and why you do that, but don't whine that people cannot be (verbally!) attacked for the books they believe in.
See's a Danyal post -> Get's out new bottle of Glenfiddich for drinking game
>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<< I'm glad no-one was hurt in the attacks and hope whomever committed them are swiftly found.
It is an interesting topic Katakori. When a society is bombarded with a single message for over a decade is it really all that surprising when the mob's own fear that you've cultivated allows you to do things that otherwise you would not?
I love ... how violence ágainst Islam is álso caused by our racism and bigotry and cannot possibly be blamed on Muslims.
If you are saying what I think you are saying there
Well, if I try to establish a relationship between Islamic terrorists attacks and Islam, I'm a racist and a bigot. Katakori and I had some extensive debates about it. Now Katakori is telling us that anti-Islamic 'terror attacks' are the result of anti-Islamic rhetoric in the media.
Not much to say, really. Those people just fucking disgust me. They're ignorant, bigoted, and apparently willing to burn innocent people alive in order make a point. Katatori hit the nail on the head when he called it "terrorism," because it parallels in so many ways what certain Muslims (not all Muslims!) are doing in the Middle East and Europe: targeting civilians in order to further their xenophobic goals.
I'm really glad I'm on the outside of this conflict. When both sides start using the same methods, I can point out how similar they really are.
Well, if I try to establish a relationship between Islamic terrorists attacks and Islam, I'm a racist and a bigot. Katakori and I had some extensive debates about it. Now Katakori is telling us that anti-Islamic 'terror attacks' are the result of anti-Islamic rhetoric in the media.
Godavari: Not much to say, really. Those people just fucking disgust me. They're ignorant, bigoted, and apparently willing to burn innocent people alive in order make a point. Katatori hit the nail on the head when he called it "terrorism," because it parallels in so many ways what certain Muslims (not all Muslims!) are doing in the Middle East and Europe: targeting civilians in order to further their xenophobic goals.
I'm really glad I'm on the outside of this conflict. When both sides start using the same methods, I can point out how similar they really are.
Wait, have 'islamophobics' already flown airplanes into Dubai's skycrapers? Have we already banned the Quran? Have 'islamphobic states' alread expelled all the muslims from their territories?
Well, if I try to establish a relationship between Islamic terrorists attacks and Islam, I'm a racist and a bigot. Katakori and I had some extensive debates about it. Now Katakori is telling us that anti-Islamic 'terror attacks' are the result of anti-Islamic rhetoric in the media.
Yeah. Where's the contradiction there?
Concluding there's a relationship between Islamic terrorists and Islamic rhetoric; RACIST! BIGOT! Concluding there's a relationship between Anti-Islamic 'terrorists' and Anti-Islamic rhetoric; Racist? Bigot?
I'm not much of a gambler, but I'd gladly bet money that it won't be the case that the perpetrators and everyone who supports them go to a secret camp for a few years before being tried by a closed military court.
Why the different treatment for these terrorists while even a plan at committing Islamic terror warrants a life sentence? Because the religion behind these attacks is Christianity.
Danyal: *I don't know enough about this attack, it's context, the mosque or it's attacker to have a strong opinion about this*
I love how Islamic violence is totally unrelated to Islam and the surrounding culture but caused by our racism and bigotry, and how violence ágainst Islam is álso caused by our racism and bigotry and cannot possibly be blamed on Muslims.
Not any better than attacking Christians for various bits of the Bible.
And what's the problem with attacking Christians for various bits of the Bible? I attack communists for bits of Marx's Manifesto, I attack capitalists for bits of Adam Smith's book, I attack religious people for bits of their 'holy' scriptures. Explain to me how it makes sense in context or tell me you dismiss that part and why you do that, but don't whine that people cannot be (verbally!) attacked for the books they believe in.
I was referring to physical attacks. Verbal attacks would be appropriate for the situations you describe, but this thread is about a series of physical attacks (or attempts). I'm trying to point out that attacking random Muslims just because there are crazies (even if their craziness has a basis in the Quran) is counterproductive and wrong.
Godavari: Not much to say, really. Those people just fucking disgust me. They're ignorant, bigoted, and apparently willing to burn innocent people alive in order make a point. Katatori hit the nail on the head when he called it "terrorism," because it parallels in so many ways what certain Muslims (not all Muslims!) are doing in the Middle East and Europe: targeting civilians in order to further their xenophobic goals.
I'm really glad I'm on the outside of this conflict. When both sides start using the same methods, I can point out how similar they really are.
Wait, have 'islamophobics' already flown airplanes into Dubai's skycrapers? Have we already banned the Quran? Have 'islamphobic states' alread expelled all the muslims from their territories?
Two things. First, I was using the future tense. Obviously right now, as far as terrorism goes, Muslim extremists are the undisputed kings (though people like Anders Brekviegskjy Scandinavian Name I Can't Spell certainly try their best). Perhaps it will stay that way, but I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say that there's a possibility of escalation on the Christian side if things like the OP get homogeneous comments of praise on the website of one of the largest "news" outlets in America.
Secondly, you're focusing too much on the details and not the motivation. I'm not entirely sure if any Muslim terrorist group has ever used moltov cocktails to try to burn down a convenience store, a private residence, a church with 75 people inside, and a synagogue, but does that really matter? I'm talking about the motivations: harming or killing innocent civilians in order to make a social or political point. Terrorism isn't defined by flying planes into buildings or banning holy books. It's defined as using violence or threats of violence to further your goals.
People are idiots sometimes, and for the record never read the comments section on a news story. It can be on Fox, or CNN, or the BBC, or whatever but whenever you read the comments on a news story, you lose a little bit of faith in humanity.
Honestly give it time to pass. Just as the hatred towards the Japanese eventually passed after Pearl Harbor, so to will the hatred towards Muslims pass in time. I am glad to see that people who commit such crimes as what you mention are being punished like they should be.
Honestly give it time to pass. Just as the hatred towards the Japanese eventually passed after Pearl Harbor, so to will the hatred towards Muslims pass in time.
Wait, where did those retarded comments I've been reading all over the net come from after Japan got hit last year?
Honestly give it time to pass. Just as the hatred towards the Japanese eventually passed after Pearl Harbor, so to will the hatred towards Muslims pass in time.
Wait, where did those retarded comments I've been reading all over the net come from after Japan got hit last year?
From retards. People say stupid things online because there is enough ambiguity to get away with it. In the real world however, you say something stupid about the Japanese Tsunami and you end up like the guy who did the voice of the Aflack duck.
I wish there were still lovely little parts of the world that were still unexplored where I could sail a bunch of ships where me and some other cool people could meet up and make our own country based on the principal of religious tolerance and...oh....
Then I remember that these are people who knowingly and willingly help perpetrate the immensely socially conservative norms from the ancient Middle East, with no thought to the harm they entail. Ideological homophobes to whom illiberalism is a virtue, set in stone by "divine" scripture, and the official dogma of whatever denomination they have to everyone else communicated unconditional worship to (whether they meant to or not).
Hence I only care for the illegality in it. Everyone will need to respect the rights of others, even when there is no reason to respect or care for them. The law is for the protection (and punishment) of sinner and saint alike.
Katatori-kun: ... Now I expect that the police will investigate these attacks and the perpetrator will eventually be brought to justice. And most of the public will condemn him, protesting that they are nothing like him. "He broke the law!" they'll protest. "Obviously everyone should know what crosses the line." But then I think the same old voices will go back to dehumanizing anyone with a Koran and appealing to fear and ignorance. They will go back to pretending that hatred and violence are just mental disorders that arise in a vaccuum, as we turn our backs on more and more of the principles that are supposed to make us great. ...
So what, you believe that people should refrain from accurately expressing their views - or perhaps even that their Freedom of Speech should be limited - on public issues, due to what a few criminal extremists they know nothing of might or might not do?
One need not respect people to respect their rights. In fact, most laws exist in the first place to regulate interaction between people who don't care about each other at all. There are the people who respect the (constitutional and democratically legitimized) laws whether they want to or not, and there are those who don't; That is the only relevant distinction here.
A criminal am the only one responsible for his crimes, as ultimately he alone have knowingly and willingly made the choice of committing them. There might be plenty of causality behind that choice to be found elsewhere - his poor childhood, a lacking social system, the political rallies he attended, the vile religious scriptures he read, that he didn't win the lottery sum to start a better life - but causality and culpability are two different things entirely.
...in fact, if those who phrase opposition to Islam am to blame for such crimes, then how am Muslims who support the continued relevance of the Qu'ran and its questionable phrasings not also to blame for the crimes motivated by this vile scripture? That scripture - and the Hadiths in particular - dehumanize plenty of groups, contains plenty of phrases that constitute incitement of violence, so surely the "moderate" Muslims am then also nothing but instigators of the criminal actions based in them taken by the extremists?
Although there is merit to what Danyal is saying, I feel that he worded it poorly and that this isn't really the point of this thread. Yes, there is a clear double standard at work here. But it's not what the thread is about.
Katakori, two things working against the value of the Fox News comments section. 1. It's a comments section. In high-traffic articles, the vast majority of comments get buried. Fast. There's no real way to bump them back up, and it's essentially anonymous. This means that the worst sides of people come out, as according to the greater internet douchebag theory... It's bad. 2. It's fox news. Smart people don't tend to take it seriously.
Imperator_DK: Then I remember that these are people who knowingly and willingly help perpetrate the immensely socially conservative norms from the ancient Middle East, with no thought to the harm they entail.
Got evidence that the specific people who got firebombed knowingly and willingly perpetrate the yada yada yada? Or did you just decide they did because they kinda resemble people you heard do that.
So what, you believe that people should refrain from accurately expressing their views - or perhaps even that their Freedom of Speech should be limited - on public issues, due to what a few criminal extremists they know nothing of might or might not do?
Weak straw-man. It's kinda sad how when any discussion of the misrepresentation of Islam in our culture comes up, the only response some people can come up with is, "Are you trying to silence me?!"
One need not respect people to respect their rights.
And I'm not talking about respect. I'm talking about not accusing every Muslim in the US of being a disloyal extremist simply on the basis of them being Muslim. I'm talking about not accusing every Muslim of homophobia simply on the basis of being a Muslim. I'm talking about not exploiting bigotry for personal gains. Really controversial of me, eh?
...in fact, if those who phrase opposition to Islam am to blame for such crimes
Are you so limited that you are incapable of seeing this as anything but a pro/anti-Muslim argument? Sad, really.
FFS, can people please spell my handle correctly? ;) Copy/paste it if you need to.
2. It's fox news. Smart people don't tend to take it seriously.
That's the thing though, it's not FOX News. It's their comments section. And they are supporting violent terrorism against American Muslims. That's really not something that should be just swept aside with an, "oh, those crazy FOX fans..." What would you say if you found a website where people openly praised someone who attempted to terrorize you? People probably get onto FBI watch-lists for less than that.
FFS, can people please spell my handle correctly? ;) Copy/paste it if you need to.
2. It's fox news. Smart people don't tend to take it seriously.
That's the thing though, it's not FOX News. It's their comments section. And they are supporting violent terrorism against American Muslims. That's really not something that should be just swept aside with an, "oh, those crazy FOX fans..." What would you say if you found a website where people openly praised someone who attempted to terrorize you? People probably get onto FBI watch-lists for less than that.
/nod Excusing these comments as "oh well, it's Fox News, of course their comment section is going to be shit" (ditto for any time people excuse awful comments on YouTube or Yahoo the same way) ignores the fact that *people really fucking feel this way and think it's perfectly fine to say so*. They're not trolling, they really feel that way. That's a problem.
And silly Katatori, don't you know it's only terrorism when brown people do it? If the attackers aren't Muslims or aren't brown, they're only "terror attacks" in scare quotes. I mean god, lrn 2 bigot.
Polarity27: And silly Katatori, don't you know it's only terrorism when brown people do it? If the attackers aren't Muslims or aren't brown, they're only "terror attacks" in scare quotes. I mean god, lrn 2 bigot.
I think I must have missed something being out of the country for so long. When I was a kid, we had funny Muslim terrorists speaking funny terrorist languages in movies, like Back to the Future and True Lies. You could tell they were terrorists because they were holding AK-47s or RPGs and they were shouting, "UHLULULULULULULULULULULU!" You could tell when a Muslim wasn't a terrorist because they didn't have an AK-47 or an RPG and weren't in the movie. Then I leave the country for the better part of the decade, and everything goes all screwy. And now no one seems to be able to tell who the terrorists are. I even heard that Mexicans could be terrorist if they have an anchor terror baby in the US.
Katatori-kun: That's the thing though, it's not FOX News. It's their comments section. And they are supporting violent terrorism against American Muslims. That's really not something that should be just swept aside with an, "oh, those crazy FOX fans..." What would you say if you found a website where people openly praised someone who attempted to terrorize you? People probably get onto FBI watch-lists for less than that.
These are the same people who think the fucking Cold War is still going on and that other countries are all 3rd world Communist fascist states, who gives a fuck what stupid thing they're saying now? It's like pigeons shitting on your car. It's annoying but you move on because that's just what they do.
Katatori-kun: That's the thing though, it's not FOX News. It's their comments section. And they are supporting violent terrorism against American Muslims. That's really not something that should be just swept aside with an, "oh, those crazy FOX fans..." What would you say if you found a website where people openly praised someone who attempted to terrorize you? People probably get onto FBI watch-lists for less than that.
These are the same people who think the fucking Cold War is still going on and that other countries are all 3rd world Communist fascist states, who gives a fuck what stupid thing they're saying now? It's like pigeons shitting on your car. It's annoying but you move on because that's just what they do.
Unfortunately, those pigeons also outnumber you something like 20 to 1. And can kill you if they all work together. So, I think your analogy kind of falls apart/doesn't work as you intend...
Spoiler: Click to View 1PHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cudXNobW0ub3JnL3Byb3BhZ2FuZGEvYXNzZXRzL2ltYWdlcy81MDB4L3Bvc3Rlci1ndWlsdHktd2FyLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=
Spoiler: Click to View 2PHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaXNsYW1vcGhvYmlhdG9kYXkuY29tL3dwLWNvbnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fkcy8yMDExLzAxL0lzbGFtb3Bob2JpYS5qcGciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L3A+
All that's changed[1] is that Nazi Germany used posters... The United States Of America (& Its NOT State Sponsored) is using quieter voices trying to manipulate the public mood and turn a large segment of the population against "THEM". Typical... then again history just repeats itself.
Step 1: "Us" and "Them" Step 2: Obey Orders Step 3: Do harm to "Them" Step 4: "Stand up" or "Stand by" Step 5: Exterminate
Wait... You've already seen this haven't you OP?
And you simply rebuked it OP... missing the point of this being psychological and within our nature as humans. Also it must happen in a particular order.
Humans are fickle... Thankfully not as fickle in the past due to education, from noble people like you OP.
This shit is still reality >.>
Anyone who hasn't seen the video... Give it a look:
Step 1: 9/11 + Ignorance (America is Big and Spread out, its easy to hate a people when you've never met them for a long friendly convosation). Step 2: Embedded in our psychology from Birth. It needs to be for Civilization to function. Step 3: This is the Stage Fox News is at RIGHT NOW! They are testing the waters... seeing if the divide is big enough... it likely isn't but still poking.
Katatori-kun: EDITED TO ADD: I am finding the arguments of the video to often be of very dubious quality. I particularly find the argument at the beginning of Step 4 to be downright offensive. Implying that not shouting down a lone nut on the street corner is remotely comparable to standing by and allowing a tyrannical regime to oppress the masses is downright dishonest.
Err... do you see the value now of what you felt offended by oh so long ago? Your talking about it in disgust.
Not a lone nut... a Media Organisation... and you've felt the need to spread the word against them.
Good.
Step 4 is a long long way away. Hopefully... we'll never get there.
[1] This and that American hasn't reached the right stage yet and hopefully never will for it to be anything than small attacks here and there
Katatori-kun: That's the thing though, it's not FOX News. It's their comments section. And they are supporting violent terrorism against American Muslims. That's really not something that should be just swept aside with an, "oh, those crazy FOX fans..." What would you say if you found a website where people openly praised someone who attempted to terrorize you? People probably get onto FBI watch-lists for less than that.
These are the same people who think the fucking Cold War is still going on and that other countries are all 3rd world Communist fascist states, who gives a fuck what stupid thing they're saying now? It's like pigeons shitting on your car. It's annoying but you move on because that's just what they do.
ignoring those people is more dangerous then you think. the vocal minority is the one that will gain the power, they know how to eventually play on our fears and make us vote or put them into power. Look at nazi germany, no one took hitler serious and did nothing about him until he actually started killing people and invading countries. but hey its 2012 new year people are different right? hardly.
Katatori-kun: EDITED TO ADD: I am finding the arguments of the video to often be of very dubious quality. I particularly find the argument at the beginning of Step 4 to be downright offensive. Implying that not shouting down a lone nut on the street corner is remotely comparable to standing by and allowing a tyrannical regime to oppress the masses is downright dishonest.
Err... do you see the value now of what you felt offended by oh so long ago? Your talking about it in disgust.
Yeah, I'm still not buying your video. I'm going to stand by that position.
Your video is about an authoritarian take-over using rather thinly-supported arguments. I'm not talking about tyranny, I'm talking about casual bigotry. There is a pretty huge difference between the two. The people profiting by inciting hatred against Muslims are not Hitlers and Stalins but folks like Herman Cain (until his fickle pickle became public anyway).
Now yes, casual bigotry can be used to support an authoritarian take-over, but until you provide evidence that we are in that process then I still say that post was a load of alarmist hogwash.
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuckingty fuck cunting site. Go ahead, Delete my post. Make me re-type it all... hmm... I'll add an image.
--------------------------------------
Katatori-kun: Yeah, I'm still not buying your video. I'm going to stand by that position.
Your video is about an authoritarian take-over using rather thinly-supported arguments. I'm not talking about tyranny, I'm talking about casual bigotry. There is a pretty huge difference between the two. The people profiting by inciting hatred against Muslims are not Hitlers and Stalins but folks like Herman Cain (until his fickle pickle became public anyway).
Now yes, casual bigotry can be used to support an authoritarian take-over, but until you provide evidence that we are in that process then I still say that post was a load of alarmist hogwash.
Pah. Take over? haha. The Average meth addict would not allow any authoritarian take over having been raised on Freedom (and meth).
If you think I'm going for an entire country-wide take over by a tyrannical regime conspiracy then no, no and thats just silly. My theory is much much simpler.
Where is all the oil? The Muslim countries!
Therefore how to the country get the oil... kill Muslims (currently).
Now to demonize an entire people has simple effects if the people buy it. These people become sub-human to their peers. To kick them, is to kick you badly behaved dog.
I don't believe Rupert Murdoch is working with his evil allies in order to snatch away the noble Americans Freedom! No. This is all simple.
Here's an example: All that time given to the "Ground Zero Mosque" could have been given to say, the Sudanese civil war where the North tried to ethnically cleanse the South, leading to a mass exodus of South Sudanese to neighbouring Chad where they drank the local water source dry... (Ironically the North is Islamic but nvm). Alternatively they could have given coverage to America's not so well off area's and some of the efforts to improve poor area's and the people who live there and their contributions more so.
Nope. Here: look at these horrible people. Look at the "Muslim Beast". They shall steal you're daughters and force them to wear black plastic bin bags... Fox News: fair and balanced... if they are fair or balanced then I am a Banana.
To dehumanize them provides 3 things: - Firstly a distraction for the American people. Their attention is focused else where and back to the horrible memories of 4 Planes hitting the Pentagon, 2 SkyScrapers and a Field (and one Sky Scraper collapsing on its own after a fire). Also it Unites Americans (mostly), which is rare (not the hatred uniting but the memory).
- Secondly it the dehumanizing effect allows for them to invade a country and kill its people. Lets not be coy. Every fucking time I hear Americans talk of the War I hear "The troops", "The Troops", "The Troops". They want Americans to stop dying. They don't think much else or if they do they know where their main priorities lie. Get our sons home. Ron Paul possibly being the first Public Figure to actually suggest what the people they are invading think or feel... which I damn well respect him for xD Iraq. They have their oil in their pocket and will try to avoid it collapsing again. Afghanistan... well: Call me a cynic... but who exactly is surrounded there? I believe its Iran, oh wait xD Yep... I see what they're doing there.
- Finally... Islam is something that the American Elite (Government Families, the new Aristocracy) don't want spreading. They want to quash it (some not all, derp), discourage Muslims travelling to America and its practice become some sort of social taboo. Why? If there are more Muslims... then the dehumanizing effect will... begin to falter... it will fade as people see quite a few Muslims are completely fine. They don't want people converting and they don't want immigrants arriving, both of whom are likely to go against them in their international actions.
This all makes sense.
Don't take any of this as an attack on any individuals... everyone has their own, different Crusade... and politicians are good at hiding what that may be (Well Ron Paul is either shit at hiding it, or will live as one of the worlds most tremendous liars :P )
------------------------------------
Now saying all of that I don't think for a second that this will go far beyond stage 3 and that will be sufficient. Stage 4 is so so and could be kept of the quiet side.
Also one of the main aims is not to exterminate Muslims in America due to the fact you need a few of them and one of those to be a nutter in order to continue the dehumanization and its subsequent effects. Leading a military/tyrannical coup on the back of these people would be moronic as soon America would split again and obviously not accept the new Government being raised on freedom and there'd be anarchy. People who lead coups aren't that stupid when (before at least) they lead them.
You need to keep them, but equally demonize them... at least until the usefulness of doing so expires. (oil dries up, or a democratic and stable middle east... whichever first).
Danyal: Well, if I try to establish a relationship between Islamic terrorists attacks and Islam, I'm a racist and a bigot. Katakori and I had some extensive debates about it. Now Katakori is telling us that anti-Islamic 'terror attacks' are the result of anti-Islamic rhetoric in the media.
So you don't think the media has played any part in keeping the fans flamed? Sure there are enough ignorant bigots out there to keep the anti-Islam stuff going, but I've seen quite a bit in the media as well, and that acts as validation. That makes their position acceptable in the public eye, and allows them to broadcast their words even louder.
I've known Muslims myself. They have no inclinations toward violence, they know Allah expects better of them. The Islamic extremists are as Muslim as the Westboro Baptist Church is Christian, and they're just as much of a minority. They're using their God as validation to mindlessly make violence. Their actions are not acceptable, but that is no reason to indiscriminately say all who are of the same religion are responsible. That's really no better than the extremists' way of thinking.
This was a very long post full of vague claims and not a shred of evidence that anything you say is true.
And frankly, it's beginning to annoy me. The bigotry present in the US is bad enough. But for you to invent a conspiracy that supposedly engineered that bigotry in a secret ploy to acquire oil strains credibility, especially when you have nothing to back up your claims but vague assertions and a map of the Middle East.
Now, are you so in need of vindication that you're going to try and hijack my thread with wild set of claims that taints the whole discussion by association with elaborate conspiracy theories?
There are real people who have been hurt by this attack. There are real people who continue to be hurt by the discrimination present in the US. By inventing conspiracy theories, you distract from what it really happening to these people and discredit the cause of standing up for them. I hope you understand, I'm not trying to have a go at you personally. But I have friends and family who could easily wind up on either side of this issue if it was allowed to fester, so I don't have a lot of patience for games right now.
ill probably get hate for this post but would anyone be surprised if the culprit/s did not turn out to be someone who considers themselves christian and a conservative. obviously no matter who it is they have some serious problems, im just saying, there are 2 groups in america that are obvious breeding grounds for hate against islam, the church and republicans.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45845535/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TwHgQdQV3sI
First of all, thankfully no one was injured.
It's too early to say much about these attacks at the moment, but the police are calling them "bias crimes". And I would not be surprised in the slightest if the attack on the Hindu home was born out of an ignorant person's inability to distinguish between Muslims and Hindus (there is some precedent for this- IIRC after 9/11 an Indian man was assaulted in Texas because the attacker mistook him for a Muslim man. Apparently in the minds of some Americans, brown skin is "close enough".) If these were attacks targetting American Muslims, then I see no reason that these attacks should not be declared terrorism, though I'm almost certain they will not be. But let's save that discussion for when we know more of the facts.
Anyway, I went over to FOX News to see how they were representing the case. While they had a very misleading headline ("possible" arson, when the first line clearly shows it was arson. Also no mention of possible anti-Muslim bias) and were very short of facts, it wasn't really too bad by FOX News propaganda standards.
But what was interesting to me was the comments section. I'll provide some excerpts:
As of this time of writing, the only clear criticism of the attacks comes from ua777skipper, who says:
Apparently his problem is not that Muslims were targeted, but just that the attacks weren't "fair". Regardless of the motivations of the person who carried out the attacks, it's clear there is a body of people who not only want them to have been motivated out of bigotry, but think that if they were it would be a good thing.
For the past several years we have been a country where politicians, pundits, and agitators have profited personally, politically, and economically by demonizing Muslims. And these appeals to fear have led to Americans forsaking the very principles they believe make this country great. People tried to ban the Park51/Cordoba House by branding it a "Ground Zero Mosque", conveniently forgetting America's deep commitment to religious freedom. Herman Cain openly practiced bigotry, proclaiming that any Muslim serving in his cabinet would have to take a loyalty test and proclaiming without evidence that more than half of American Muslims are extremists. Apparently taking a shit on the Bill of Rights while campaigning for the highest office of the land was not enough to sink his campaign however, as it was only news that he had an affair that did him in. The NYPD is now covertly gathering intelligence on Muslim neighborhoods, bringing into question if one's religious beliefs can exempt one from the right to privacy, due process, and equal protection under the law. Even among the enlightened people on this very forum, people endorsed a corporation joining in with a small Christian group trying to silence a television show that portrayed Muslims in a non-negative light.
Now I expect that the police will investigate these attacks and the perpetrator will eventually be brought to justice. And most of the public will condemn him, protesting that they are nothing like him. "He broke the law!" they'll protest. "Obviously everyone should know what crosses the line." But then I think the same old voices will go back to dehumanizing anyone with a Koran and appealing to fear and ignorance. They will go back to pretending that hatred and violence are just mental disorders that arise in a vaccuum, as we turn our backs on more and more of the principles that are supposed to make us great.
If America goes into decline, it won't be because Republicans or Democrats took office, it won't be because of debts or taxes or spending policy, and it won't be because of China. It will be because when it really mattered, we gave up. Because we enjoyed being scared, angry, and hateful. Because in the end we thought supporting our petty insular personal clubs was more important than liberty.