Worst person here?
Mao
21.4% (30)
21.4% (30)
Hitler
47.9% (67)
47.9% (67)
Stalin
30.7% (43)
30.7% (43)
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Poll: Atheism Double Standard?

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Apparently, since Stalin was an Atheist everyone who is atheist has no morals.
Also, Hitler was and so was Mao.
3 Terrible people all atheist with no morals and crimes against humanity.
-Bill O' Reilly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARDDcdFaQ
Should I be worried about people actually LISTENING to this guy?

Flamebait.

Seriously man?
This is almost 5 years old. You dont need to be worried about anyone listening to this if you stopped posting it.

Well, I was confronted with this logic today from a Schoolmate.

Convoy:
Well, I was confronted with this logic today from a Schoolmate.

Okay, and?

He expressed his opinion. You explained to him that it is irrelevant. Maybe he didn't see your viewpoint. You walked away like an adult or changed topics. People will have their opinions, and its your right to disagree with them as much as it is their right to have them.

Coming to a predominately atheist/agnostic board, posting it in the wrong section, and claiming to be the victim because some hardcore christian conservative had the views of a hardcore christian conservative opens what kind of discussion?

Use the search bar also. This topic of hitler/stalin/ect being atheists has been done to death.

atheism has no doctrine. Therefore you can't do thing's in the name of atheism. Those people (Stalin specifically) tried to replace god with images of themselves. Hitler was in bed with the catholic church (who still didn't excommunicate him for what he did) etc.

TL:DR There is no logical or factual argument, it's just religious people grasping at straws.

Good reads

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/hitlerstalin.html

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=20th_century_atrocities

Bill O'riley is an idiot as well. Anything that comes out of his mouth should never be taken as fact, but, as the ramblings of an idiotic mad man.

In reference to god vs no god spoken on one of his shows - "tide goes in, tide goes out you can't explain that" - Bill O'riley

Yes Bill, we can, and have been able to for a long time..

You can always point out the flaw in that logic by turning it on them. For instance, (assuming the person you're talking to is of the jesus camp) the WBC are christians and massive douche nozzles therfore all christians are massive douche nozzles. We all know that isn't the case.

I thought hitler was christian, I mean the ss had "god is on our side" on their belts and the whole jew thing. Plus stalin wasnt that much of an athiest, he did believe in a god, its just that god was him.

I could've sworn I read somewhere that Hitler was Christian....

Digitaldreamer7:
atheism has no doctrine. Therefore you can't do thing's in the name of atheism. Those people (Stalin specifically) tried to replace god with images of themselves. Hitler was in bed with the catholic church (who still didn't excommunicate him for what he did) etc.

TL:DR There is no logical or factual argument, it's just religious people grasping at straws.

Good reads

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/hitlerstalin.html

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=20th_century_atrocities

Bill O'riley is an idiot as well. Anything that comes out of his mouth should never be taken as fact, but, as the ramblings of an idiotic mad man.

In reference to god vs no god spoken on one of his shows - "tide goes in, tide goes out you can't explain that" - Bill O'riley

Yes Bill, we can, and have been able to for a long time..

Indeed. In response to that list, in any case, I'd say "The Borgias, the people who settled America, most persecutors of the homosexual community. These people have all worshipped God, to a high degree and in some cases even used it as motive for their actions. Hitler and Stalin were coincidentally Atheist." (I don't know much about Mao, but I won't presume)

Convoy:
Well, I was confronted with this logic today from a Schoolmate.

Why didn't you just reply with (1) far more religious people have killed en masse than atheists, and (2) Hitler actually wasn't an atheist, as he believed in the supernatural (hell, he had a whole damn department devoted to it).

EDIT: oh and how could I forget? Stalin, Mao, etc. did what they did in spite of their atheism, not in the name of it. I can't think of anyone who committed genocide in the name of atheism, and yet I can't possibly count the number who have committed genocide and war crimes in the name of a religion/god/s.

The best Atheism related statement I've ever heard was from Philosoraptor "If Atheism is a religion does that mean bald is a hair colour?"

Implying that there is a common moral compass (Or lack there-of), practice, whatever, among atheists is silly, and just shows a person's ignorance of what Atheist means.

Why are you watching bill o reiley.
Why are you talking to kids at school about religion, it never goes well.
Kids, religion, school, politics, fox news, not the best mix for well constructed discussion.

Convoy:
Apparently, since Stalin was an Atheist everyone who is atheist has no morals.
Also, Hitler was and so was Mao.
3 Terrible people all atheist with no morals and crimes against humanity.
-Bill O' Reilly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARDDcdFaQ
Should I be worried about people actually LISTENING to this guy?

Hitler was Christian I believe, if not he was certainly far from atheist with all his crazy beliefs in mystical forces, Mao and Stalin were atheists I believe, and yes there state atheism and Communist governments lead to a lot of death, but that had nothing or very little to do with their beliefs or lack thereof.

All three of those men were sociopaths who killed millions, if they were Christians, Atheists, Hare Krishnas, Muslims, Bhuddists, whatever they would have still caused all that death.

Also don't listen to Bill O'Reilly, he's dumb.

Convoy:
Well, I was confronted with this logic today from a Schoolmate.

Haha it's not logic in the slightest.

There is no fact in that argument as atheism isn't a group there are no rules people have to follow. Atheism is a religion like off is a TV channel.

Hitler was catholic, Stalin wanted to be a god, Mao being so super private no one knows exactly what he believed.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." Hitler, Adolf (1999) Mein Kampf. Trans. Ralph Manheim. New York: Mariner Books, p. 65.

CODE-D:
Why are you watching bill o reiley.
Why are you talking to kids at school about religion, it never goes well.
Kids, religion, school, politics, fox news, not the best mix for well constructed discussion.

Good point. **exits thread**

Sounds like the guy is a troll, ignore him. If people actually listen to him, well every generation has a layer of retards, we're gonna have to put up with it.

What does atheism, a double standard, and Bill O'Reilly have to do with each other??

Answer: Nothing!

As mentioned, Hilter was a pretty hardcore Christian. Stalin I thought was too, but maybe not.

Mao, on the other hand, was not a genocidal crazy person. Most of China reveres him. Sure, part of that is brainwashing but at the same time, my gf is from Shanghai and she's told me a fair bit of the history. Mao did a lot of good for the working class. He could be ruthless to anyone he considered a threat but overall he wasn't even close to what Hitler and Stalin got up to.

Honestly, though, I don't know what the thread title has to do with the OP. Or what we're supposed to talk about.

I'm an atheist. The people I respect and look up to are mostly Christian. I think I am a good person, and I think they are good people. The biggest jerk I ever knew was an atheist, but I've also seen plenty and mean, selfish, good-for-nothing Christians.

We all need to step back and realize that every group has good people and bad people in it.

Religion is very personal. I would not be able to be a Christian and I would not want my Christian friends to be atheists. Faith is something built not out of rational thought but of personal belief and personal truth. What seems right for me and helps me understand my place in the universe wouldn't work for my Christian friends, and their beliefs would not comfort me.

A lot of people get insecure that others don't share their beliefs. Others have been hurt by members of a religious group and lash back out later on in life. But identifying with the belief rather than the quality of the person will make you some very shitty friends. We all need to realize that there is no reason to judge people based on their religion. We need to help the good people find the beliefs that can enlighten them and let them find peace, and call out all the jerks in the world, even if they share our beliefs.

Don't drag your schoolboy arguments into this forum boy.

Oh look another thread that will turn into an opportunity to promote the religion of atheism and condemn all of religion on behalf of rebellion against christianity, goodie, I havent seen one of these in so long I almost forgot what they looked like.

Well, Hitler made them print "Gott mit uns" on the coins in III Reich, and he constantly talked about how Jesus was a fighter against the Jews and he is just continuing the fight like the Creator would've liked it.

Maybe it was propaganda. But then again, MAYBE STALIN WAS CHRISTIAN TOO. Not Catholic, obviously, but religious, sure. Except evidence is evidence.

Also, atheists can be communist, liberal, conservative (unlikely, but still), fascist or anarchist, doesn't mean shit. It is just rejection of the idea of spirituality, deities or supernatural beings, not a worldview.

viranimus:
Oh look another thread that will turn into an opportunity to promote the religion of atheism and condemn all of religion on behalf of rebellion against christianity, goodie, I havent seen one of these in so long I almost forgot what they looked like.

I really hope you misspelled it as "religion or atheism", unless you really wrote "religion of atheism". In which case I pity you.

Hitler was a Mass-attending, God-fearing Catholic, which was partly why the Mother Church at that time didn't act against him. Mao and Stalin were both self-professed nihilists who eventually set up personality cults in the truest sense of the word cult. Worship to them, and faith in the State were mandatory during their rule, with penalties no less barbarous than any you'd find in the Bible for regular criminality, much less thought-crime. A living god is still a god, and thus negates the primary premise of atheism.

You now have ammunition for your friend, but as said by others it probably won't end well regardless of the facts behind you. Then again... depending upon how old you and your friend are, it might just be a turning point in his life, and start him upon the path of questions.

Digitaldreamer7:
atheism has no doctrine. Therefore you can't do thing's in the name of atheism. Those people (Stalin specifically) tried to replace god with images of themselves. Hitler was in bed with the catholic church (who still didn't excommunicate him for what he did) etc.

TL:DR There is no logical or factual argument, it's just religious people grasping at straws.

Good reads

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/hitlerstalin.html

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=20th_century_atrocities

Bill O'riley is an idiot as well. Anything that comes out of his mouth should never be taken as fact, but, as the ramblings of an idiotic mad man.

In reference to god vs no god spoken on one of his shows - "tide goes in, tide goes out you can't explain that" - Bill O'riley

Yes Bill, we can, and have been able to for a long time..

You speak sense, but dude, your TL:DR is about half the length of what you were saying. No one is that lazy surely? :P

Also: My vote goes for Stalin, based on what I remember from history class.

Hitler and Stalin organized genocides. Stalin was more "successful" at it, because instead of a few small minorities, he targeted large swaths of society.

Mao never committed genocide. He did enforce incredibly foolish agricultural practices which resulted in the deaths of millions, but he meant well. Mostly.

Also: My vote goes for Stalin, based on what I remember from history class.

Hitler and Stalin organized genocides. Stalin was more "successful" at it, because instead of a few small minorities, he targeted large swaths of society.

Mao never committed genocide. He did enforce incredibly foolish agricultural practices which resulted in the deaths of millions, but he meant well. Mostly.

'Westboro church do stupid things to smite people, therefor all christians are bad people'

sorry but this logic is incredibly stupid

Hitler was an atheist.

Apparently....

Or not. As is obviously true.

He banned the german atheist league.

I always found the idea of atheism to be a heck of a lot more dangerous than religion, to be honest.

I'm willing to accept that religion's flaws cause a number of problems when no one questions them, but they at least provide a basis of ethics which people can build/change/ruin at their leisure.

Atheism, at its purest, gives no guidance whatsoever. It pretty much demands people decide for themselves what is right and wrong. That strikes me as absolutely alarming, because our actions, whether grouped or independent, would justify themselves because WE did them.

Are we really so egotistical and selfish that we assume that simply because we can think we can judge everything?

I don't find it any coincidence that in history's thousands of years of existence, every culture, nation, and people has had some form of religion to guide them- unless you count the Communist regimes' policies of "religion is poison," which were corrupt, brutal, and short-lived.

EDIT: On a tangential note, Hitler? Not Christian.
http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html

Because it's only okay to kill people if you're Christian.

Wolfram01:
What does atheism, a double standard, and Bill O'Reilly have to do with each other??

Answer: Nothing!

As mentioned, Hilter was a pretty hardcore Christian. Stalin I thought was too, but maybe not.

Mao, on the other hand, was not a genocidal crazy person. Most of China reveres him. Sure, part of that is brainwashing but at the same time, my gf is from Shanghai and she's told me a fair bit of the history. Mao did a lot of good for the working class. He could be ruthless to anyone he considered a threat but overall he wasn't even close to what Hitler and Stalin got up to.

Honestly, though, I don't know what the thread title has to do with the OP. Or what we're supposed to talk about.

Yeah... a person born in a country ruled by an entrenched oligarchy with a heavily state regulated media thinks that the founder of the current ruling party was a hero. Ask her about the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, the Gang of Four, or the end result of the Hundred Flowers Campaign. Just because he inadvertently rather than deliberately killed millions of people doesn't make them any less dead.

Pimppeter2:

Okay, and?

And he decided to ask a community about it. No big deal. At least your search bar complaint was valid.

Wolfram01:
What does atheism, a double standard, and Bill O'Reilly have to do with each other??

Answer: Nothing!

O'Reilly's position has been pretty evident. When a muslim or an atheist does something bad, it represents the entire community. When a christian wrecks stuff, it has nothing to do with Christianity, because NO TRUE SCOTSMAN!

To say these three have nothing to do with one another is completely false, regardless of whether X person was Y or not.

I don't know why people keep insisting that Hitler was a Christian. He took down Crucifixes on Catholic school classrooms and replaced them with photos of himself. Hitler also stated that once Germany had claimed an empire, all religious sites would be converted to places of Hitler-worship.

Richard Keohane:
We all need to step back and realize that every group has good people and bad people in it.

Religion is very personal. I would not be able to be a Christian and I would not want my Christian friends to be atheists. Faith is something built not out of rational thought but of personal belief and personal truth.

A lot of people get insecure that others don't share their beliefs.

We all need to realize that there is no reason to judge people based on their religion. We need to help the good people find the beliefs that can enlighten them and let them find peace, and call out all the jerks in the world, even if they share our beliefs.

I cut some of this down to what hit home the most for me.

I'm a Christian. I don't smash my religion into anyone. I don't force anyone listen to me quote the Bible or preach sermons. Mainly because I don't need to do that. I am just me. You are just you.

If you and I can have a civilized conversation about the weather, movie interests, food interests, sports, etc., I don't see why religion has to ever come up. You don't believe, that is your choice as a human being. All I ask is you don't question why I do believe. Give me the same respect in my choice as I've given to you.

I've posted on this forum and I'm a murdering, molesting, carjacking heroin addict. You sicken me because you have also posted on this forum and are, in turn a murdering, molesting, carjacking heroin addict. You're goin' to jail, punk.

Hitler was not an Atheist.

Black Arrow Officer:
I don't know why people keep insisting that Hitler was a Christian. He took down Crucifixes on Catholic school classrooms and replaced them with photos of himself. Hitler also stated that once Germany had claimed an empire, all religious sites would be converted to places of Hitler-worship.

He still stated that what he was doing was the work of a very specific god. While some of the Third Reich had embraced a pseudo pagan Aryan belief, they still very strongly believed in a christian god.

Convoy:
Apparently, since Stalin was an Atheist everyone who is atheist has no morals.
Also, Hitler was and so was Mao.

Hitler was Christian.
Stalin wasn't really an atheist, he believed that HE is the highest authority. Mao believed in something similar, so did Kim Jong Il. All 3 brainwashed the citizens of their countries into worshiping them. So in a way, they weren't really atheists but fake gods.

Also, Hitler had morals. He was a patriot. He loved his country. He wanted nothing but the best for Germany and he succeeded in turning it into a superpower. Yes, his methods of doing that were extreme but if you look at, for example, George Bush Jr, he did the same thing. Invading and occupying other countries, spreading false propaganda etc. I'm willing to bet that if he could get away with it, he would have all the Muslims in USA killed, just like Hitler was doing with the Jews. He's Christian.
What does that prove? That people in positions of power need strong opposition (or something, I don't know, I'm tired but I can't sleep so I'm just wasting time here).

But enough rambling.

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