How bad was 9/11 really

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This is a topic I've wanted to talk about with the community for awhile and I feel could spark some interesting conversation. (Note I am American and have lived here my entire life)

Was 9/11 really that bad? I mean yes a couple thousand innocent people died for no good reason but I don't see it even close to the tragic level it's been made out to be. We have also had many liberties robbed of us in attempts to "keep us safe" that have really made no difference on our safety level.

It just shows how in America we feel untouchable and whenever something like this happens we freak out like HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? This happens all around the world and it wasn't even close to the worst things that happen in my opinion. Also how come every single 9/11 they go over it at school. We get what happened we dont need to keep bringing this up.

How do you feel on the issue?
:note I'd be careful how you word your response I suspect anyone who disagrees with your opinion will report you

I don't think it was as bad as it could have been, simply looking at the numbers. I mean, imagine if the planes had gone into someplace like Disney World on a busy day. The park capacity of the Magic Kingdom alone is 80,000. Had they crashed the plane there during any major holiday...well, things would have been much more devastating.

I think what makes 9/11 so bad for people is not just the number of lives lost, but what the attack means. The attack was unprovoked, and aimed at a civilian structure that was not in a war zone or during a time of war. A pot shot, basically. The only other attack we've ever had like that was Pearl Harbor. And ever since Pearl Harbor, we've built up a lot of patriotism and arrogance, and began to think we were the infallible paragon of a country. So I think it was simply the shock of coming to terms with just how vulnerable we really are, and how close these people who hate us so much are.

Yes, mainly because it was a man made disaster, over three thousand people died because of other human beings hatred/stupidity or whatever you think the cause was. I know the death toll was less than earthquakes and hurricanes that killed thousands more, but they were natural disasters and may be perceived as it being noones fault.

Therefore man made disasters like 9/11 really are that bad, because certain individuals were the cause, not like the random occurances of an earthquake..

Well it was a tragic loss of life but it's importance comes more from what it represents rather than what it actually was.

However there is a lot of ppl who have milked the heck out of it for any number of reasons and who have inflated it's significance past any sensible proportions.

so, in that sense, no..it really wasn't that big of a deal, relative to most tragedies where thousands of lives are lost.

It was bad, but put it in context with other events that have occurred in the past, it's no worse, such as the blitz which claimed over 40 000 lives.

It does seem that it's perceived quite childishly in some cases. Tens of thousands die in third world wars and genocides, and nobody cares. But the moment a relative handful of Americans die the country rampages across the world creating a 'war on terror' that's affected almost every nation out there, whether they liked it or not.

I'm pretty certain that it was pretty bad as it had struck a big blow to them (Goverment, security etc). Not only that but is had lasting effect seeing how the people who were involve in ground zero are having health problems because of the crumbling dust they had inhale on that day.

LordFisheh:
It does seem that it's perceived quite childishly in some cases. Tens of thousands die in third world wars and genocides, and nobody cares. But the moment a relative handful of Americans die the country rampages across the world creating a 'war on terror' that's affected almost every nation out there, whether they liked it or not.

This was essentially the point I was going to make. Well said.

OT: I think that in the great scope of things, 9/11 isn't as bad as other "man made disasters" (as one escapist put it) that have existed.

I mean, hell. Look at the holocaust. This doesn't even come close. I think it's simply because American's are always on the position of "We're far away from where we bomb people, therefore they can't attack us!" and on 9/11 that script changed.

Still. I think the liberties we lost as a result of 9/11 are a greater tragedy than the event itself.

It wasn't that bad. As you say, the authorities milked it as an excuse for funding wars and taking away liberties.

Already by 9/12 I could see the thing being blown out of proportion, and at no point did I believe any of this crap about needing wars or more security.

Well not only was the attack itself bad, but the after effects of the attack were as well. Just look at the death tolls in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not to mention the erosion of freedoms the US government has implemented because of the fear of it happening again ie the PATRIOT Act and the NDAA.

Americas defenses were raped, never forget
We really dropped the ball that day and a lot of innocent people died for no reason so yeah it was bad especially the place that was hit. If you weren't close to it or knew someone you probably care less but comparing it to bigger tragedies doesn't take away from the fact that it was bad and even worse that it could have been prevented with better screening processes and procedures.

And did the government sort of abuse it for propaganda to go to war? yes but its still bad.

So nearly 3,000 die tragically in an attack and that is used as justification to invade 2 countries. Which results in the deaths of many orders of magnitude larger than that, to the indigenous civilian populations.

And lets just put the numbers into perspective. In the same year over 40,000 people died in the US in road traffic accidents. Smoking kills 160000 Americans each year. Where is the war on bad driving or smoking. Happy people got their priorities right.

The terrorists goal was to ruin our way of life and make it more like the despot, police states they come from. Obviously they have had no success in that aim at all......

not to start a flame war but...
america nuked japan twice and they brushed it off eventually,

america has just two buidings blown up and they act like the whole entire world has ended.

It shot terror into the hearts of Americans.

Even today i can't get on a plane without that thought in the back of my mind tormenting me.

Biodeamon:
not to start a flame war but...
america nuked japan twice and they brushed it off eventually,

america has just two buidings blown up and they act like the whole entire world has ended.

Well, with 9/11, its not how many people died, its that it was an attack on the center of the US. Pretty fucking terrifying. Right in the most lively city, something like that happens. Its a big thing, because it gives the average Joe the feeling hes not safe.

But of course, I would agree that given their track record, they had it coming. Its a pity the plane didnt crash into the white house, but there you go.

eh, it depends on who you are. If you were in the towers, it was pretty terrible. If you were related to people in the towers, it probably sucked too. If you live in Zimbabwe and have no relations in the US, then it probably didn't matter too much.

I'd say in general, I wouldn't blame any American for being upset after the incident, though it would be weird if they still cried over it today.

Biodeamon:
not to start a flame war but...
america nuked japan twice and they brushed it off eventually,

america has just two buidings blown up and they act like the whole entire world has ended.

...actually, I'm pretty sure the Japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were pretty distraught over the nukes. Probably more so than Americans after 9/11...

ph0b0s123:

The terrorists goal was to ruin our way of life and make it more like the despot, police states they come from. Obviously they have had no success in that aim at all......

Actually, that's not really the terrorists' goal, despite the rhetoric you might hear. The Muslim extremists are upset about US military presence in Saudi Arabia and US historical and present support of some of the governments in the Middle East / N Africa, and also Western support of Israel, depending on which terrorist group. In the long term, a lot of the groups also want Sharia law, though that's more of a goal that puts them at odds with their domestic governments, rather than the West.

They didn't just decide "we want to ruin the American way of life for no reason" before blowing up our towers...

Any significant loss of life is sad but the reactions to 9/11 are so huge because, prior to the event, Americans saw themselves as untouchable. Wars and attacks tended to happen to other countries and America sometimes got involved, but never really in America itself, unless they were self-inflicted.

After that, the government and the media treated terrorism like the Red Scare. The main difference was that the US had already been attacked by terrorists whereas with communists they were never a serious threat.

< Me be English :D

I don't think it was as bad either, Americans exaggerated it as they tend to be one if not the most overly patriotic places around. At the time Americans never really felt like they were under threat for a long long while, most other places learnt it the hard way in world war 2, however America didn't get it nearly as bad as Europe. After that Americans felt vulnerable and thus tend to exaggerate how severe the damage was.

Well it wasnt that bad that most american politicans "seems" to think, but it has been milked like hell and I cannot actually believe that some people seems to think it was an attack against "American Freedom" or they were so jealous of your freedom or all that shit.

I was already questioning why I bother browsing these forums.

Log out button, you are my only friend.

There's no safe way of discussing this publicly.

We haven't even got around to dealing with Hiroshima, The American Civil War or the War of Independence yet.

Give it another 100 years.

It's more what it represents than the number of deaths, really (though of course the deaths were a major tragedy). If an unaffiliated, non-military, random terrorist that could be anyone you know is capable of destroying (what were) 2 great American monuments, then it really shows how vulnerable everyone in America is. Possibly how vulnerable everyone in the world is, but at the time the USA was thought of as untouchable, which likely added to the effect it had.

The really sad part is that the terrorists were very successful. It worked. People became terrorised, and it was used as an excuse to remove certain personal freedoms. Yet more damage you can chalk up to those bastards.

(I'm English by the way, but that's basically how I see it.)

One of the things that we worked out in one of my Game Theory courses was proof that terrorism is a cold, rational response of someone weaker trying to fight off a perceived invasion. Like guerrilla warfare.

The 9/11 attacks were not unprovoked, they were a direct response to policy. Attacking innocents, while terrible, is not unlike the way that they perceive what we have done. Looking at the numbers of civilian casualties due to collateral damage in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's hard to say we did anything other than prove them right with our reactionary violence.

Now we have thousands of young Americans dead too, largely due to the fact that we took terrorism to be a disease rather than a symptom.

what it represents to me is less 'oh my god so many deaths' and more the US isn't untouchable anymore. Somebody had brought the fight to us and we weren't mentally prepared for it. It had brought shock to a lot of people i wasn't so bothered but i didn't understand it when it happened, though I'm still not very moved.

Everything that happened because of it was pretty bad.

Like the use of the term Post 9-11.

The fact that the government used 9/11 to grab powers they otherwise wouldn't have doesn't lessen the tragedy of the event itself, neither does the fact that more tragic things have happened elsewhere.

Yes, it was horrible, but in relation to things, well;

Number of innocents who died related to the attack: roughly 3000
Number of innocents who died in the war in iraq (documented in a warzone) over 100,000.

There are obviously the differences in timescales, but still.

Not bad at all. Christians have killed way more in the past. It is just overblown, people died, buhuuu. Plus in the following war there were so many innocents that died, but no one cares about them?

Well, I don't but I do not care about anyone who died during 9/11 either. ^^

Well as someone from Serbia, looking at the 9/11 being propagated as the one of the worst things in history by Americans when NATO/US bombed and killed more than 2000 Serbian civilians here during the 1999s "Merciful Angel" mission and called them casualties (not as part of a war/conflict, but a simple series of bombing missions against a nation that didn't stand a chance of defending themselves against such an attack), it's hard for me to care any less about it without being a sociopath.

Of course I feel for the victims and their families, any death of an innocent person is a tragedy, but further than that, it's just fuel your ridiculous government used to get what it wanted - attention, sympathy and a reason to put that military fund to use.

Really bad. It is the lose of human life for a silly reason that happened nearly a hundred years ago.

bobfish92:
Yes, it was horrible, but in relation to things, well;

Number of innocents who died related to the attack: roughly 3000
Number of innocents who died in the war in iraq (documented in a warzone) over 100,000.

There are obviously the differences in timescales, but still.

To be fair one was in one day, the other many years.

About 9/11

"That 11 September, that lethal Tuesday morning, I awoke with dread to the sound of planes flying above my house," wrote Ariel Dorfman in the New Statesman recently. "When, an hour later, I saw smoke billowing from the centre of the city, I knew that life had changed for me, for my country, forever".

Dorfman - contrary to popular assumption - was not writing about New York in 2001. He was describing events 28 years earlier in Chile. Chile 1973 is the forgotten 9/11.

In April 1973, the CIA circulated a memo encouraging a military coup in Chile against Salvador Allende's democratically elected socialist government. The memorandum called for the promotion of economic chaos, political tension and affirmed that "ideally it would succeed in inducing the military to take over the government completely".

Five months later, the Chilean armed forces - strongly encouraged by the US - bombed the Presidential Palace and Allende shot himself. In the following days, over 13,500 people were arrested. The Pinochet dictatorship - aided and abated by the US - rolled out radical neo-liberal economic policy which required violent enforcement. In total, more than 3,200 people were disappeared or executed, 80,000 were imprisoned and 200,000 fled the country for political reasons. It was an alarming foreshadow of things to come.

more here http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/09/10/the-other-forgotten-911-tragedy/

Also, Noam Chomsky on both 9/11
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10307626-noam-chomsky-on-911-and-the-forgotten-911

Worse things than 9/11 happen on an almost daily basis worldwide, and in my opinion making such a big fuss about it is completely unnessesary.

Lilani:
I don't think it was as bad as it could have been, simply looking at the numbers. I mean, imagine if the planes had gone into someplace like Disney World on a busy day. The park capacity of the Magic Kingdom alone is 80,000. Had they crashed the plane there during any major holiday...well, things would have been much more devastating.

I think what makes 9/11 so bad for people is not just the number of lives lost, but what the attack means. The attack was unprovoked, and aimed at a civilian structure that was not in a war zone or during a time of war. A pot shot, basically. The only other attack we've ever had like that was Pearl Harbor. And ever since Pearl Harbor, we've built up a lot of patriotism and arrogance, and began to think we were the infallible paragon of a country. So I think it was simply the shock of coming to terms with just how vulnerable we really are, and how close these people who hate us so much are.

QFT

and the very very small thing that something is only as horrific as the media wants it to be. I know this sounds goof job, conspiracy like and stuff. And I'm generally pretty positive about the media and politicians wanting the best for us all.

but the simple fact is that the vast majority of people will not witness, or know anyone that did witness, a horrible event. So we base our opinion on how the media decides to report on it. A story that gets alot of background on who got killed and how will be much more shocking then a more anonymous story. And I doubt any tragedy, and make no mistake it was a horrible tragedy, had a more direct and in dept coverage.

You cant really scale 9/11 by the few thousand people that died. You can only scale it by the cultural shift that it caused, did anyone actually knew of "terrorism" and "plane hijacking" before 9/11? Did it show how vulnerable the world is? Its the kind of things you need to take into account when it comes to 9/11.

Would the world be the same if it hadn't happened? no war on terror? Its more to do with the impact it caused.

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