Poll: Mandatory HSE for people’s right to vote

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In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes. people still weasel their way out of our free education system that in theory you have to go through yet people, who skip school in order to go to an apprenticeship in carpentry get out of this clause.

Edit 1
Wow this post already execeded my expectations in the amount of replys on this topic. Lets keep this nice and civil people.

EDIT: Okay after reading it a second time while sleep deprived it makes more sense. Carry on.

Also no for reasons mentioned below but after my original post so...yeah

Uggh no. You can't deny someone their right to vote when they have committed no felonies.

Simple as that. Besides, its not like everyone in Australia votes anyways. The fine for it is non existent and most people just choose to pay the 20 bucks rather then vote. Not to mention that denying their right to vote on the simple grounds that you don't like who they're voting for strikes me as a tad anti-democratic.

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes.

Mandatory voting favours major parties. With most voters grudgingly doing their civic duty, they tend to go with known parties that have a major media presence. If a lot of people vote for minor and fringe parties it's either because the major parties are in bad odor or some goose has tapped into popular movement.

Your idea would strip a lot of older Australians of their right to vote (you know, people from back in the days when you could get a decent job with only a year 10 education?)...

I'm also highly amused that you think the 'uneducated' vote SA or Green... most of the people I know who admit to voting either have at least undergraduate degrees.

maddawg IAJI:
Uggh no. You can't deny someone their right to vote when they have committed no felonies.

Australia doesn't take voting rights away from felons.

RhombusHatesYou:

maddawg IAJI:
Uggh no. You can't deny someone their right to vote when they have committed no felonies.

Australia doesn't take voting rights away from felons.

Well that's what I get for being ignorant of the other governments.

maddawg IAJI:

RhombusHatesYou:

maddawg IAJI:
Uggh no. You can't deny someone their right to vote when they have committed no felonies.

Australia doesn't take voting rights away from felons.

Well that's what I get for being ignorant of the other governments.

I should probably also point out that crimes in Australia are categorised as summary offences and indictable offences not misdemeanors and felonies.

RhombusHatesYou:

maddawg IAJI:

RhombusHatesYou:

Australia doesn't take voting rights away from felons.

Well that's what I get for being ignorant of the other governments.

I should probably also point out that crimes in Australia are categorised as summary offences and indictable offences not misdemeanors and felonies.

Damnit! Stop pointing out my ignorance of the Australian legal system! Its making me feel bad!

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes. people still weasel their way out of our free education system that in theory you have to go through yet people, who skip school in order to go to an apprenticeship in carpentry get out of this clause.

Nope, I don't support this. Somebody's ability to vote isn't defined by their level of education, and even if it was, I wouldn't agree with the meritocratic principle of the idea.

Here in the UK the voter turnout is depressingly low. People are mostly uninterested or disenchanted with politics. I can't support anything that would even further remove government from the people.

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes. people still weasel their way out of our free education system that in theory you have to go through yet people, who skip school in order to go to an apprenticeship in carpentry get out of this clause.

.
You do realize that it's similar to Voting in 1800 America. Only rich, educated, white, male land owners could cast their vote, since it was democracy!
No women, Blacks, Poor or others. Is that the Democracy you want?
Hail the Republic.

Why stop there? If we're putting in arbitrary restrictions, why not take the voting right away from anyone who isn't named James Ennever? That way, you're sure to always get the government you want!

Why a high school diploma in particular? There are some perfectly smart people who fail at school and graduate with nothing.

I'm not sure about deciding who and shouldn't vote. On the surface, it makes sense that if only people capable of making conscious decisions about politics could vote, you would get better leadership. Though
that falls down when you realise that it could exclude whole groups of people. Once again, the poor and unfortunate will become disenfranchised, and that worsens the sort of plutocracy which is evident today. We can't count on a more educated citizenry to vote altruistically, they are just as likely to vote with their own interests in mind.

If people didn't care about politics at all, they just wouldn't bother to go out and vote in voluntary elections (of course there are people who do care, but choose not to vote). Perhaps we should instead nurture interest in politics rather than deciding someone is too stupid or too ignorant to participate. I only support active disenfranchisement for prisoners - if you show such disregard for society that you break its laws and trample the rights of others, you should not be allowed to have a say in politics until you have served your sentence.

So, people who would rather work in a trade don't get the right to vote? Essentially, you'd be taking away the vote from the lower classes, which would be a huge step back from any achievement made in endorsing universal suffrage.

In Ireland, about a century ago, you had to own a certain amount of land in order to vote, taking political say away from the lower classes. This seems like the same kind of priciple.

Many people would drop out at Year 10(Only yr11&12 after it). Only until like 5 years ago did someone need to stay in education IE Highschool, apprenticeship or TAFE until 17(doesn't mean they complete anything). So a fair number of current adults dropped out and never got anything higher then Yr10.

That doesn't mean they are uninformated about what party they vote for. What should happen is people should be forced to take a non baised(Like that exists) course like 6 months every election on current policies of each party. That would slove the problem way better. If people went and paid attendion.

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes.

Funny, here in Norway a lot of those who didn't get higher education are voting for the right wing xenophobes who promises cheep alcohol and fuel, not the lefties.

Better to restrict candidates' visibility than to restrIct voting.

If media is a problem, weighting candidates by monetary means, take it away. Do what NASCAR does - the best and worst drivers in nearly identical cars - and you might get somewhere close to a fair fight.

I know drop-outs who are much more informed regarding politics than I am, and I got an ATAR of 94.6. Having a high school diploma doesn't mean that you're more capable of making an educated vote, stop being elitist.

Though I'm a year younger than everyone in my grade was so I can't even vote right now anyway.

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes. people still weasel their way out of our free education system that in theory you have to go through yet people, who skip school in order to go to an apprenticeship in carpentry get out of this clause.

I skipped out on school and am currently rather firmly in what would be described as "middle class". No "skilled trade", self employed and as successful as I need to be, so how about no? High school is a joke. I know plenty of useless morons who finished it well enough, and plenty of decent, working tax paying individuals who did not. And that's really where I stand on the subject. If any nation is going to be calling itself a democracy, any citizen paying taxes to that nation has a say in who's going to be in charge, stupid or not.

And as for high school, setting the bar for voting on education is one thing, but if you're going to go that route you're going to need to set it a great deal higher.

Technically it is not mandatory to vote at all, it is mandatory to attend a polling office. What you do with that piece of paper is your own business. The people it really favours is the first on the ballet with donkey-voters.

maddawg IAJI:
Uggh no. You can't deny someone their right to vote when they have committed no felonies.

Simple as that. Besides, its not like everyone in Australia votes anyways. The fine for it is non existent and most people just choose to pay the 20 bucks rather then vote. Not to mention that denying their right to vote on the simple grounds that you don't like who they're voting for strikes me as a tad anti-democratic.

The fine is like $50 after 3 weeks, not alot, but i would rather go vote and keep my money. And they dont miss much..

OT:
I believe it would be morally wrong to suspend someones right to vote just because they fail at the traditional form of education. Like many others, i know lots of smart people who simply didnt try during the HSC years, and didnt pass due to attendance etc. It wouldnt be right to take these peoples vote from them.
Although if you really didnt care about politics, and wanted to keep your 50 bucks, theres always a donkey or invalid vote.

maddawg IAJI:
Uggh no. You can't deny someone their right to vote when they have committed no felonies.

Agreed, though I'm not even sure how much I like the idea of removing the right to vote for felons (when they're in prison it's fine, but once they're released and supposed to be rehabilitated and reintegrated into society? Doesn't quite sit well with me, even if rehabilitation is a pipe dream most of the time).

You can't take away people's right to vote, let alone make it dependent on meeting some criteria which is completely arbitrary. The assumption that people who don't have a HS education can't be that intelligent is outright offensive frankly, especially given the sorry state of public education in much of the first world. Denying free adult citizens their right to participate in the democratic process is not in the best interests of a society aiming to call itself free. Absolutely no one, ever, should argue in favour of curtailing such a fundamental right for such an arbitrary reason. And if someone is campaigning for such a thing, they should be fought every step of the way.

James Ennever:
In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes.

in other words, you want to take away a person's right to vote because they want to vote for parties you don't support.

YOU FAIL DEMOCRACY.

Why don't we let only one person vote, the most perfect of us all. That should give us the best result, don't you agree? And we call it democracy since that person represents ALL of us.

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes. people still weasel their way out of our free education system that in theory you have to go through yet people, who skip school in order to go to an apprenticeship in carpentry get out of this clause.

image

This is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, just because someone doesn't take a formal education doesn't mean they're not of sound enough mind to choose a leader. There's more ways to educate yourself than the school system. Secondly, even if that was, it's still not grounds on which to deny them voting rights. Thirdly, I think enforced voting is full of bullshit and chips, as people who don't want to vote for either candidate for whatever reason are either going to cast one at random or file a blank vote, neither of which help the election in either way.

I'm not going to go into why this is a bad idea as it's being stated fairly well by most of the previous posts.

I am however, in favor of requiring some kind of _basic_ literacy exam as a right to vote. Do I want equal voting rights for all, sure. Do I want someone who, (whether by choice or circumstance) can't seem to read the ballot to be able to cast a vote? Maybe not...

Before people get upset: I know it may not be their fault that they didn't get a chance to read/write, but I look at it the same way that I look at why blind people shouldn't drive. It may not be their fault that they can't see, but I still don't want them on the road as they pose a distinct danger to the public.

Besides... I can't help but to think that's how 1/2 of this congress got elected. ;)

Only people with advanced degrees in logical subjects like math, natural science, and philosophy should be allowed to vote and hold office. Democracy is a terrible form of government, since most of the common people who vote are influenced by money and nonsense.

maddawg IAJI:

RhombusHatesYou:

maddawg IAJI:

Well that's what I get for being ignorant of the other governments.

I should probably also point out that crimes in Australia are categorised as summary offences and indictable offences not misdemeanors and felonies.

Damnit! Stop pointing out my ignorance of the Australian legal system! Its making me feel bad!

Don't feel bad... thanks to the overconsumption of US media, many Australians are just as ignorant of their own legal system.

Had the exact same argument once with my aunt, who is in politics. Her answer: hell no. Because a government of elected officials is supposed to represent it's people, not it's elite. "dumb jobless hacks" need to have representatives as well because they exist.

Remember: voting is anonymous, so noone feels obliged to be fair or even civil. (A lot like the internet really.) So most people vote for whoever promises to do stuff that will help themselves. If one guy has a plan to solve world hunger and the other to lower taxes a little, guess what happens? Everyone votes for the tax guy, because they are not hungry. The same thing would happen if only the elite could vote: they'd only vote for whatever fits them best. Even if the poor were literally drowning in their own excrement, they'd not vote for the guy promising sewers in the poor part of town, because they already have sewers. And when the inevitable class-war starts they'll vote for the guy who plans to gun down looters, not the guy saying the poor should have more rights.
In fact, you don't have to imagine. It already happened. In the 19th century in Europe the rich/educated had 2 or 3 votes and the poor 1, even though many didn't even know. Look up how that turned out :S (spoiler: not well)

It's for the same reasons racist parties/candidates have a right to exist. If a significant part of your people are racists than you can't deny them the right to have a racist representative. It sucks but it's fair and you'll just have to deal with it, the same way you deal with knowing that racist people exist. (Though if the racists start making up the majority of the government you'd probably want to get out of there asap because that's not gonna end well either)

Dang, that turned into some wall... Oh well, you asked for it :)

Because being able to learn stuff by heart for tests in an unflexible schoolsystem => Havin' a fuckin' clue about politics.

And because without high education, you're not smart enough to figure out what you want to happen in your country. Probably those people shouldn't be allowed to drink, drive and reproduce too. They don't know what they do!!

TestECull:
Thirdly, I think enforced voting is full of bullshit and chips, as people who don't want to vote for either candidate for whatever reason are either going to cast one at random or file a blank vote, neither of which help the election in either way.

Actually, Australia has a 90%+ turn out to all State and Federal election and the incidence of 'informal voting' (blank or defaced ballots) in quite low. When people are pissed at the major parties they tend to vote for the minor parties and independents as protest votes rather than just fuckarsing around with informal votes.

Your vote means nothing anyway. Whoever wins is still going to give in to whoever chucks the most money at them, and piss you off by extension. On that subject, nobody thinks your health and well being is more important than making a profit, nobody deserves your vote. On election day 2012, stay home.

Well at least we are getting closer to them. I believe that Australia should have party leader elections where the labor,green and my personel favorite liberal leader are elected not just the ones in the party with the most power.

Batou667:

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes. people still weasel their way out of our free education system that in theory you have to go through yet people, who skip school in order to go to an apprenticeship in carpentry get out of this clause.

Nope, I don't support this. Somebody's ability to vote isn't defined by their level of education, and even if it was, I wouldn't agree with the meritocratic principle of the idea.

Here in the UK the voter turnout is depressingly low. People are mostly uninterested or disenchanted with politics. I can't support anything that would even further remove government from the people.

If they are not interested why would they miss it?

Naeras:

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes.

Funny, here in Norway a lot of those who didn't get higher education are voting for the right wing xenophobes who promises cheep alcohol and fuel, not the lefties.

Really? Here it is the leftys.

Vegosiux:
Why stop there? If we're putting in arbitrary restrictions, why not take the voting right away from anyone who isn't named James Ennever? That way, you're sure to always get the government you want!

being able to read is not an'arbitrary' restriction, although I like your later argument, makes me turn into a pustule of smug.

Cazza:
Many people would drop out at Year 10(Only yr11&12 after it). Only until like 5 years ago did someone need to stay in education IE Highschool, apprenticeship or TAFE until 17(doesn't mean they complete anything). So a fair number of current adults dropped out and never got anything higher then Yr10.
I know, slackers. high school was hell, not because of the work but because of the people for me, and now the people who made high school hell for me are deciding future policy.

That doesn't mean they are uninformated about what party they vote for. What should happen is people should be forced to take a non baised(Like that exists) course like 6 months every election on current policies of each party. That would slove the problem way better. If people went and paid attendion.

, Which they would not.

TheIronRuler:

James Ennever:
In Australia it is mandatory to vote, however IMO this has caused more harm than good like giving a monkey a hand grenade. In short I propose that those of no high school diploma or equivalent should be barred from voting as the lesser party's IE socialist alliance and the greens seem to pick candidates and votes. people still weasel their way out of our free education system that in theory you have to go through yet people, who skip school in order to go to an apprenticeship in carpentry get out of this clause.

.
You do realize that it's similar to Voting in 1800 America. Only rich, educated, white, male land owners could cast their vote, since it was democracy!
No women, Blacks, Poor or others. Is that the Democracy you want?
Hail the Republic.

In Australia nearly all the imigrants we take in are more educated than the 'whites' you refer to.

James Ennever:

Vegosiux:
Why stop there? If we're putting in arbitrary restrictions, why not take the voting right away from anyone who isn't named James Ennever? That way, you're sure to always get the government you want!

being able to read is not an'arbitrary' restriction, although I like your later argument, makes me turn into a pustule of smug.

Oh come on, you have a 99% literacy rate.

Instead of that, why not make a five question candidate-aptitude test that requires you to know the broad policies of the various popular candidates (selected from a pool of thirty questions or so) with each ballot, and reject people who don't score a 3 or higher?

High school doesn't make you suddenly know politics.

lacktheknack:
Instead of that, why not make a five question candidate-aptitude test that requires you to know the broad policies of the various popular candidates (selected from a pool of thirty questions or so) with each ballot, and reject people who don't score a 3 or higher?

High school doesn't make you suddenly know politics.

But after college, it makes you ess likely to vote for the tits and puppies party.
I like you're Idea but then they would only have a stereotypical veiw of each party that the greens would almost surely have the upper hand. "save the trees!" beats sound monitorey managment 99% of the time.

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