Poll: Creationism....really?

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keiskay:

i think mass suffering shows how stupid we are as human beings we are to busy discussing stupid things like the existence of god. you say that suffering is evidence of his non existance, fine but i will not accept claims based on emotion and subjective standards. i place the blame of whats going on in those countries on human beings as it should be. we created our own messes and we have to dig ourselves out of it. all the suffering in the world caused by us. all the deaths, mass murders, genocides and atrocities are caused by people. what do 99% of us do when we hear about these atrocities and problems. absolutely nothing we sit around and bitch and try to place blame and do nothing to fix it.

I think you're missing my point anyway. I'm not "blaming God", pretty obviously as I don't believe in him. I'm saying that all this suffering strongly, strongly suggests to me that there is no God, and "he wants us to learn how to be good" or whatever just doesn't cut it. I mean, for one thing, why bother? Why put us all here so we can suffer and learn and suffer some more and learn some more and then die and go to heaven? What's the fucking point of that? No one knows, they all say "He has a plan, trust him".

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

And with that I'm gone, I have stuff to do. Enjoy the party, everybody.

Oirish_Martin:

keiskay:
i think mass suffering shows how stupid we are as human beings we are to busy discussing stupid things like the existence of god. you say that suffering is evidence of his non existance, fine but i will not accept claims based on emotion and subjective standards. i place the blame of whats going on in those countries on human beings as it should be. we created our own messes and we have to dig ourselves out of it. all the suffering in the world caused by us. all the deaths, mass murders, genocides and atrocities are caused by people. what do 99% of us do when we hear about these atrocities and problems. absolutely nothing we sit around and bitch and try to place blame and do nothing to fix it.

It's not about emotion.

It's about allowing things to continue as they are for every human being (no matter how much or little responsibility they personally as an individual chose to contribute to the status quo) for the reasons you've stated to being neither loving nor just - two of the fundamental properties of God, ergo contradiction, can't exist.

i dont think you know what just is. if you dig yourself into a problem its not someone else responsibility to dig you out of that problem. its your own problem. you can sit their and whine that no one is helping you but until you realize that you have everything you need to help yourself, your going to accomplish nothing, until then.

Hides His Eyes:

keiskay:

i think mass suffering shows how stupid we are as human beings we are to busy discussing stupid things like the existence of god. you say that suffering is evidence of his non existance, fine but i will not accept claims based on emotion and subjective standards. i place the blame of whats going on in those countries on human beings as it should be. we created our own messes and we have to dig ourselves out of it. all the suffering in the world caused by us. all the deaths, mass murders, genocides and atrocities are caused by people. what do 99% of us do when we hear about these atrocities and problems. absolutely nothing we sit around and bitch and try to place blame and do nothing to fix it.

I think you're missing my point anyway. I'm not "blaming God", pretty obviously as I don't believe in him. I'm saying that all this suffering strongly, strongly suggests to me that there is no God, and "he wants us to learn how to be good" or whatever just doesn't cut it. I mean, for one thing, why bother? Why put us all here so we can suffer and learn and suffer some more and learn some more and then die and go to heaven? What's the fucking point of that? No one knows, they all say "He has a plan, trust him".

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

And with that I'm gone, I have stuff to do. Enjoy the party, everybody.

i can tell you never suffered anything major in life. or seen another persons real suffering. you probably have only experienced first world problems which are pretty fucking light compared to the third world. i never said he wants us to learn to be good, he wants us to learn how to help ourselves and fix our own problems. that simply requires being good though.

keiskay:
sorry but its not god's responsibility to watch over us

Depends on the God, and in the case of the Christian god, yes, it most certainly is.

we have the tools to make the world better for everyone but only better it for ourselves.

Rubbish. We do not have the tools to stop natural disasters outright, there are plenty of things we do not have control over. A particularly dangerous delusion to carry into situations of suffering, it carries with it the implication that suffering is one's own fault for not dealing with properly.

like wise i doubt your father is still supporting your ass now? unless your a bum. im assuming you you went to college or learned a trade to better yourself and get through life.

Again, like all parental analogies for God, it fails. Learning a skill only equips you for certain things in life. The level of suffering in this world is not something we can completely deal with right now, and may not ever be capable for. And yet God is doing nothing about this. There is nothing fair or loving about this, which is what the whole objection to the problem of evil/suffering is about.

sure not everyone has the same opportunities but we can change that, ut nah thats not important right now lets try and oppose something that is helping those in third world countries that we like to throw around in our silly arguments so much.

You may want to stop assuming I'm not helping out in other respects, champ.

Oh, and religion is helping there now is it? What help can the religious exclusively bring that the non-religious can't? You know what the non-religious on the whole AREN'T doing over there? Saying that condoms are bad and increasing the spread of AIDS, or peddling anti-vaccine propaganda in areas where polio is making a resurgence.

personally i find us discussing the placing of blame on some one who may not exist very offensive to those in terrible living conditions.

Good for you. I find encouraging the belief in something nonexistent and profoundly impractical offensive to those in that same situation.

maybe i would take the anti-theist movement seriously if it wasn't for the fact that you all act like whiny children.

Maybe I'd take an "apatheist" seriously if they didn't spend so much time arguing consistently for one side and coming up with statements of faux-superiority like this one.

keiskay:
i dont think you know what just is.

You sure as hell don't, if you think the level of suffering on this earth is somehow appropriate.

if you dig yourself into a problem its not someone else responsibility to dig you out of that problem.

And how exactly did an AIDS-ridden baby in a poverty-stricken village in Africa dig themselves into that particular problem?

its your own problem. you can sit their and whine that no one is helping you but until you realize that you have everything you need to help yourself, your going to accomplish nothing, until then.

Utter bullshit. If you think that these problems are so fucking easy to solve, go talk to the UN. They're finding it rather tough trying to solve piss-easy little mishaps like world hunger and not enough clean drinking water, but you and your mindless platitudes will surely win the day!

Wow 78.1% are atheist on this board. I mean I always knew it swung that way but that's quite the gulf.

Hides His Eyes:

I think you're missing my point anyway. I'm not "blaming God", pretty obviously as I don't believe in him. I'm saying that all this suffering strongly, strongly suggests to me that there is no God, and "he wants us to learn how to be good" or whatever just doesn't cut it. I mean, for one thing, why bother? Why put us all here so we can suffer and learn and suffer some more and learn some more and then die and go to heaven? What's the fucking point of that? No one knows, they all say "He has a plan, trust him".

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

And with that I'm gone, I have stuff to do. Enjoy the party, everybody.

I don't know Jesus seemed to have some pretty good advice when it came to easing our suffering the only problem is the vast majority of people only do what Jesus would do when it's convenient for them, and yea that goes for Christians too (if not more so).

Though the question you asked certainly is a quandary, and one that has probably been asked before humans had even formerly conceived of God(s), just very simply put I think the first question was "Why is there suffering?" and not "Why does God let there be suffering?" though I guess that's little importance and might not even have any relevance to what you're saying.

Oirish_Martin:

keiskay:
sorry but its not god's responsibility to watch over us

Depends on the God, and in the case of the Christian god, yes, it most certainly is.

we have the tools to make the world better for everyone but only better it for ourselves.

Rubbish. We do not have the tools to stop natural disasters outright, there are plenty of things we do not have control over. A particularly dangerous delusion to carry into situations of suffering, it carries with it the implication that suffering is one's own fault for not dealing with properly.

like wise i doubt your father is still supporting your ass now? unless your a bum. im assuming you you went to college or learned a trade to better yourself and get through life.

Again, like all parental analogies for God, it fails. Learning a skill only equips you for certain things in life. The level of suffering in this world is not something we can completely deal with right now, and may not ever be capable for. And yet God is doing nothing about this. There is nothing fair or loving about this, which is what the whole objection to the problem of evil/suffering is about.

sure not everyone has the same opportunities but we can change that, ut nah thats not important right now lets try and oppose something that is helping those in third world countries that we like to throw around in our silly arguments so much.

You may want to stop assuming I'm not helping out in other respects, champ.

Oh, and religion is helping there now is it? What help can the religious exclusively bring that the non-religious can't? You know what the non-religious on the whole AREN'T doing over there? Saying that condoms are bad and increasing the spread of AIDS, or peddling anti-vaccine propaganda in areas where polio is making a resurgence.

personally i find us discussing the placing of blame on some one who may not exist very offensive to those in terrible living conditions.

Good for you. I find encouraging the belief in something nonexistent and profoundly impractical offensive to those in that same situation.

maybe i would take the anti-theist movement seriously if it wasn't for the fact that you all act like whiny children.

Maybe I'd take an "apatheist" seriously if they didn't spend so much time arguing consistently for one side and coming up with statements of faux-superiority like this one.

i argue for one side because their is only maybe like 4 theist on this board and countless atheist and anti-theist, i find a theist spouting bullshit I'll argue against him but usually before i get the chance to you guys have already torn them to shreds so there would be no point for me to interject and add my own 2 cents to the issue. besides the religious folk on these forums don't make many threads and when they do its usually politically based. except for endersgate but his threads weren't really anything to get heated over.

keiskay:
i argue for one side because their is only maybe like 4 theist on this board and countless atheist and anti-theist, i find a theist spouting bullshit I'll argue against him but usually before i get the chance to you guys have already torn them to shreds so there would be no point for me to interject and add my own 2 cents to the issue. besides the religious folk on these forums don't make many threads and when they do its usually politically based. except for endersgate but his threads weren't really anything to get heated over.

Fair enough. I'm still wondering why someone calling themselves apatheist would even bother to get involved. It comes across as somewhat of a contradiction in terms.

Oirish_Martin:

keiskay:
i dont think you know what just is.

You sure as hell don't, if you think the level of suffering on this earth is somehow appropriate.

if you dig yourself into a problem its not someone else responsibility to dig you out of that problem.

And how exactly did an AIDS-ridden baby in a poverty-stricken village in Africa dig themselves into that particular problem?

its your own problem. you can sit their and whine that no one is helping you but until you realize that you have everything you need to help yourself, your going to accomplish nothing, until then.

Utter bullshit. If you think that these problems are so fucking easy to solve, go talk to the UN. They're finding it rather tough trying to solve piss-easy little mishaps like world hunger and not enough clean drinking water, but you and your mindless platitudes will surely win the day!

i never said it was easy. and no i was a figurative you, as in the entirety of humanity. if we switched our focuses im sure we could greatly reduce the amount of suffering in africa and other places. but our focuses are not high enough on the third world right now.

Oirish_Martin:

keiskay:
i argue for one side because their is only maybe like 4 theist on this board and countless atheist and anti-theist, i find a theist spouting bullshit I'll argue against him but usually before i get the chance to you guys have already torn them to shreds so there would be no point for me to interject and add my own 2 cents to the issue. besides the religious folk on these forums don't make many threads and when they do its usually politically based. except for endersgate but his threads weren't really anything to get heated over.

Fair enough. I'm still wondering why someone calling themselves apatheist would even bother to get involved. It comes across as somewhat of a contradiction in terms.

i dont know its probably because thats how am i personally. if people were ganging up on atheist i would step to there defense and vice versa.

keiskay:

Oirish_Martin:

keiskay:
i argue for one side because their is only maybe like 4 theist on this board and countless atheist and anti-theist, i find a theist spouting bullshit I'll argue against him but usually before i get the chance to you guys have already torn them to shreds so there would be no point for me to interject and add my own 2 cents to the issue. besides the religious folk on these forums don't make many threads and when they do its usually politically based. except for endersgate but his threads weren't really anything to get heated over.

Fair enough. I'm still wondering why someone calling themselves apatheist would even bother to get involved. It comes across as somewhat of a contradiction in terms.

i dont know its probably because thats how am i personally. if people were ganging up on atheist i would step to there defense and vice versa.

Fair enough - I apologise for that parting shot I made at your stance then.

keiskay:
i never said it was easy. and no i was a figurative you, as in the entirety of humanity. if we switched our focuses im sure we could greatly reduce the amount of suffering in africa and other places. but our focuses are not high enough on the third world right now.

I don't deny we'd have some effect if we worked together. The issue is that if you buy into the Christian explanation of why things are the way they are then God bears a lot of the responsibility for setting it up in the first place. But it always comes back to how horrible we are, even though we had less responsibility for it.

It's just intensely irritating to be told that on top of suffering in the first place, it's entirely our fault, despite the huge responsibility attributable to the guy with omnipotence who could make things better instantly - or at the very least stop making suffering so bloody inaccurate.

Oirish_Martin:

keiskay:
i never said it was easy. and no i was a figurative you, as in the entirety of humanity. if we switched our focuses im sure we could greatly reduce the amount of suffering in africa and other places. but our focuses are not high enough on the third world right now.

I don't deny we'd have some effect if we worked together. The issue is that if you buy into the Christian explanation of why things are the way they are then God bears a lot of the responsibility for setting it up in the first place. But it always comes back to how horrible we are, even though we had less responsibility for it.

It's just intensely irritating to be told that on top of suffering in the first place, it's entirely our fault, despite the huge responsibility attributable to the guy with omnipotence who could make things better instantly - or at the very least stop making suffering so bloody inaccurate.

fair enough.

I can't vote on this poll, 'cause I have no idea what an "Athiest" is, and the other two options don't suit me.

~Sylv

Should we limit ourselves to what is and what is not?

If we say that is there is a god and he created all of us that brings up the question: Where did god come from?
And if we say there is no god and the universe was created by the big bang that brings up the question: Where did the big bang come from?

I don't like organized religion because it leaves far too many questions unanswered, then refuses to try and answer them.
And i have a certain disdain of science in the sense that it often just tosses some ideas aside without taking it's knowledge or wisdom from it first (even if it's a "how not to do it" list)

keiskay:

Hides His Eyes:

keiskay:

i think mass suffering shows how stupid we are as human beings we are to busy discussing stupid things like the existence of god. you say that suffering is evidence of his non existance, fine but i will not accept claims based on emotion and subjective standards. i place the blame of whats going on in those countries on human beings as it should be. we created our own messes and we have to dig ourselves out of it. all the suffering in the world caused by us. all the deaths, mass murders, genocides and atrocities are caused by people. what do 99% of us do when we hear about these atrocities and problems. absolutely nothing we sit around and bitch and try to place blame and do nothing to fix it.

I think you're missing my point anyway. I'm not "blaming God", pretty obviously as I don't believe in him. I'm saying that all this suffering strongly, strongly suggests to me that there is no God, and "he wants us to learn how to be good" or whatever just doesn't cut it. I mean, for one thing, why bother? Why put us all here so we can suffer and learn and suffer some more and learn some more and then die and go to heaven? What's the fucking point of that? No one knows, they all say "He has a plan, trust him".

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

And with that I'm gone, I have stuff to do. Enjoy the party, everybody.

i can tell you never suffered anything major in life. or seen another persons real suffering. you probably have only experienced first world problems which are pretty fucking light compared to the third world. i never said he wants us to learn to be good, he wants us to learn how to help ourselves and fix our own problems. that simply requires being good though.

I won't dignify the first part with a response, for fear of getting into a suffering competition. As for the second part, we wouldn't have to learn how to help ourselves and fix our own problems if he didn't give us so many fucking problems. And I realise we cause our own problems, but he created us that why. Why? I mean, what's the point? It's futile.

And you're still arguing from a position of assuming that God exists at all. You can say anything you want about him to justify all the suffering if you're working on the assumption that he exists.

Hides His Eyes:

keiskay:

Hides His Eyes:

I think you're missing my point anyway. I'm not "blaming God", pretty obviously as I don't believe in him. I'm saying that all this suffering strongly, strongly suggests to me that there is no God, and "he wants us to learn how to be good" or whatever just doesn't cut it. I mean, for one thing, why bother? Why put us all here so we can suffer and learn and suffer some more and learn some more and then die and go to heaven? What's the fucking point of that? No one knows, they all say "He has a plan, trust him".

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

And with that I'm gone, I have stuff to do. Enjoy the party, everybody.

i can tell you never suffered anything major in life. or seen another persons real suffering. you probably have only experienced first world problems which are pretty fucking light compared to the third world. i never said he wants us to learn to be good, he wants us to learn how to help ourselves and fix our own problems. that simply requires being good though.

I won't dignify the first part with a response, for fear of getting into a suffering competition. As for the second part, we wouldn't have to learn how to help ourselves and fix our own problems if he didn't give us so many fucking problems. And I realise we cause our own problems, but he created us that why. Why? I mean, what's the point? It's futile.

And you're still arguing from a position of assuming that God exists at all. You can say anything you want about him to justify all the suffering if you're working on the assumption that he exists.

fine god doesnt exist and we still have all these problems, we can only place blame then on human beings. the levels of suffering could of been and can still be reduced but it wont. we are to busy bitching about sopa pipa and acta and discussing arguments about the existence of god instead of trying to actually reduce suffering in third world countries.

keiskay:

fine god doesnt exist and we still have all these problems, we can only place blame then on human beings. the levels of suffering could of been and can still be reduced but it wont. we are to busy bitching about sopa pipa and acta and discussing arguments about the existence of god instead of trying to actually reduce suffering in third world countries.

At least ACTA is going to cause even more problems for those countries. Sure, most people here see it as an attack on "our internetz!!!", but in reality the treaty is much more far-reaching and sinister than that.

It could (and likely is intended to) monopolize food and pharmaceuticals production even more, for one. Yes, I'm talking about patented seeds for crops here. Internet? That's of secondary concern in the face of ACTA, what happens when growing your own food is outlawed? For example,

http://www.infowars.com/new-food-bill-in-new-zealand-takes-away-human-right-to-grow-food/

keiskay:

Hides His Eyes:

keiskay:

i can tell you never suffered anything major in life. or seen another persons real suffering. you probably have only experienced first world problems which are pretty fucking light compared to the third world. i never said he wants us to learn to be good, he wants us to learn how to help ourselves and fix our own problems. that simply requires being good though.

I won't dignify the first part with a response, for fear of getting into a suffering competition. As for the second part, we wouldn't have to learn how to help ourselves and fix our own problems if he didn't give us so many fucking problems. And I realise we cause our own problems, but he created us that why. Why? I mean, what's the point? It's futile.

And you're still arguing from a position of assuming that God exists at all. You can say anything you want about him to justify all the suffering if you're working on the assumption that he exists.

fine god doesnt exist and we still have all these problems, we can only place blame then on human beings. the levels of suffering could of been and can still be reduced but it wont. we are to busy bitching about sopa pipa and acta and discussing arguments about the existence of god instead of trying to actually reduce suffering in third world countries.

Well, you're arguing too. I don't really see your point. We were debating the existence of God, and you've just said he doesn't exist. I think that's game over, unless you want to keep berating me for not having solved world poverty yet, in which case you could at least acknowledge that you haven't either.

Vegosiux:

keiskay:

fine god doesnt exist and we still have all these problems, we can only place blame then on human beings. the levels of suffering could of been and can still be reduced but it wont. we are to busy bitching about sopa pipa and acta and discussing arguments about the existence of god instead of trying to actually reduce suffering in third world countries.

At least ACTA is going to cause even more problems for those countries. Sure, most people here see it as an attack on "our internetz!!!", but in reality the treaty is much more far-reaching and sinister than that.

It could (and likely is intended to) monopolize food and pharmaceuticals production even more, for one. Yes, I'm talking about patented seeds for crops here. Internet? That's of secondary concern in the face of ACTA, what happens when growing your own food is outlawed? For example,

http://www.infowars.com/new-food-bill-in-new-zealand-takes-away-human-right-to-grow-food/

seriously your gonna quote alex jones. wait not just quote but actually believe him. ugh its not gonna happen bro, that link is 100% scare tactics for him to ring in viewers.

I've never actually heard about the guy, and it's quite a chance occurrence that I linked that particular site ^^

But seriously, ACTA can do that. And I have no reason to believe it won't. But sure, yeah let's pretend it's just about the internet.

I feel that god may have started evolution (or just made it possible) rather then actually just created humans one day.

Vegosiux:
I've never actually heard about the guy, and it's quite a chance occurrence that I linked that particular site ^^

But seriously, ACTA can do that. And I have no reason to believe it won't. But sure, yeah let's pretend it's just about the internet.

Infowars is a site run by Alex Jones. "Who is Alex Jones?" you might ask. Alex Jones... Well, how should I put this... Alex Jones is a grade-A conspiracy nutbag. His diatribes include such savory topics as how the fluoride in our water is being used as a mind control tool, how big banking (yes, not the Illuminati but rather BIG BANKING) is poisoning our food and water, how "chemtrails" are being used as a depopulation tool, and, of course, how 9/11 was an inside job, controlled demolition and all. It's like he'll grasp onto any kooky theory unless it actually has some accuracy to it, and his demagoguery knows no bounds.

If you want to be taken seriously, don't cite his crap. Citing Alex Jones is like citing Kent Hovind or Ken Ham - even if he's right, you're better off either not saying anything at all or finding an alternative source, because the source is just going to make people think less of you.

Stagnant:

Vegosiux:
I've never actually heard about the guy, and it's quite a chance occurrence that I linked that particular site ^^

But seriously, ACTA can do that. And I have no reason to believe it won't. But sure, yeah let's pretend it's just about the internet.

Infowars is a site run by Alex Jones. "Who is Alex Jones?" you might ask. Alex Jones... Well, how should I put this... Alex Jones is a grade-A conspiracy nutbag. His diatribes include such savory topics as how the fluoride in our water is being used as a mind control tool, how big banking (yes, not the Illuminati but rather BIG BANKING) is poisoning our food and water, how "chemtrails" are being used as a depopulation tool, and, of course, how 9/11 was an inside job, controlled demolition and all. It's like he'll grasp onto any kooky theory unless it actually has some accuracy to it, and his demagoguery knows no bounds.

If you want to be taken seriously, don't cite his crap. Citing Alex Jones is like citing Kent Hovind or Ken Ham - even if he's right, you're better off either not saying anything at all or finding an alternative source, because the source is just going to make people think less of you.

There's a saying that "a broken clock is correct twice a day". Alex Jones is a clock which has had its hands removed.

keiskay:

Vegosiux:

keiskay:

fine god doesnt exist and we still have all these problems, we can only place blame then on human beings. the levels of suffering could of been and can still be reduced but it wont. we are to busy bitching about sopa pipa and acta and discussing arguments about the existence of god instead of trying to actually reduce suffering in third world countries.

At least ACTA is going to cause even more problems for those countries. Sure, most people here see it as an attack on "our internetz!!!", but in reality the treaty is much more far-reaching and sinister than that.

It could (and likely is intended to) monopolize food and pharmaceuticals production even more, for one. Yes, I'm talking about patented seeds for crops here. Internet? That's of secondary concern in the face of ACTA, what happens when growing your own food is outlawed? For example,

http://www.infowars.com/new-food-bill-in-new-zealand-takes-away-human-right-to-grow-food/

seriously your gonna quote alex jones. wait not just quote but actually believe him. ugh its not gonna happen bro, that link is 100% scare tactics for him to ring in viewers.

I think I just found proof of god:

I agree with keiskay on something: that Alex Jones is a crackpot. XD

Stagnant:

If you want to be taken seriously, don't cite his crap. Citing Alex Jones is like citing Kent Hovind or Ken Ham - even if he's right, you're better off either not saying anything at all or finding an alternative source, because the source is just going to make people think less of you.

Duly noted and will take care in the future ^^

I'm kinda surprised there's not more behind the idea, of, if you're a believer, that all of science's achievements, and the theory of evolution are God's will.

I know you can't really choose what you believe, but that allows for science, while understanding that God put everything in place at the start.

But then I believe it's quite possible to be a good Christian without believing word for word every line of the Bible.

If we could get people to go for that, it'd sure save a lot of time tho :D

'God decided that evolution would be the best way for life to advance on Earth' - sure solves a lot of arguments.

SenseOfTumour:
I'm kinda surprised there's not more behind the idea, of, if you're a believer, that all of science's achievements, and the theory of evolution are God's will.

I know you can't really choose what you believe, but that allows for science, while understanding that God put everything in place at the start.

But then I believe it's quite possible to be a good Christian without believing word for word every line of the Bible.

If we could get people to go for that, it'd sure save a lot of time tho :D

'God decided that evolution would be the best way for life to advance on Earth' - sure solves a lot of arguments.

i wish it did solve that problem but its not good enough for the anti-theist and skeptic community. i seriously said that and someone attacked me for it and said i had jump through a whole shit load of hoops to justify that and then he proceeded to ask me how do i justify jesus dying for admas original sin. which has fuck all to do with science and was on more philosophical grounds when i pointed this out he said i was flip flopping on issues and then called me an apologist. so even though it should solve things it does not.

keiskay:
i wish it did solve that problem but its not good enough for the anti-theist and skeptic community. i seriously said that and someone attacked me for it and said i had jump through a whole shit load of hoops to justify that and then he proceeded to ask me how do i justify jesus dying for admas original sin. which has fuck all to do with science and was on more philosophical grounds when i pointed this out he said i was flip flopping on issues and then called me an apologist. so even though it should solve things it does not.

What a huge coincidence that you just happened to come across the one guy who represents the entire, supposed, antitheist "community".

It's not possible that he was just some guy, I presume?

Elcarsh:

keiskay:
i wish it did solve that problem but its not good enough for the anti-theist and skeptic community. i seriously said that and someone attacked me for it and said i had jump through a whole shit load of hoops to justify that and then he proceeded to ask me how do i justify jesus dying for admas original sin. which has fuck all to do with science and was on more philosophical grounds when i pointed this out he said i was flip flopping on issues and then called me an apologist. so even though it should solve things it does not.

What a huge coincidence that you just happened to come across the one guy who represents the entire, supposed, antitheist "community".

It's not possible that he was just some guy, I presume?

im assuming you know what antitheism means, if so your questioning makes no sense. other wise you would just be an atheist since anti theism is the active opposition to religion. an atheist probably doesnt care about theistic evolutionist while an antitheist will be the first to point out how it is supposedly bullshit. if he does not he is more likely an atheist or just an incredibly apathetic and lethargic anti theist.

keiskay:
im assuming you know what antitheism means, if so your questioning makes no sense. other wise you would just be an atheist since anti theism is the active opposition to religion. an atheist probably doesnt care about theistic evolutionist while an antitheist will be the first to point out how it is supposedly bullshit. if he does not he is more likely an atheist or just an incredibly apathetic and lethargic anti theist.

So, both flinging insults at me and trying to tell me what I should believe? Am I supposed to take your post seriously with that in mind?

Elcarsh:

keiskay:
im assuming you know what antitheism means, if so your questioning makes no sense. other wise you would just be an atheist since anti theism is the active opposition to religion. an atheist probably doesnt care about theistic evolutionist while an antitheist will be the first to point out how it is supposedly bullshit. if he does not he is more likely an atheist or just an incredibly apathetic and lethargic anti theist.

So, both flinging insults at me and trying to tell me what I should believe? Am I supposed to take your post seriously with that in mind?

if your claiming to be an antitheist but are not opposed to religion or god then what is the point? would that not make you an atheist?

keiskay:
if your claiming to be an antitheist but are not opposed to religion or god then what is the point? would that not make you an atheist?

I am indeed opposed to religion, and I do think there is no reason whatsoever to believe in theistic evolution or whatever. That doesn't mean I give a crap about that particular fish, as there are bigger ones in need of cooking.

keiskay:
i wish it did solve that problem but its not good enough for the anti-theist community.

Unsurprising. No such community exists, so how could it ever approve of anything?

The only use for that word is to generalise and demonize people who criticise religion or religious nonsense. Pointing out that assuming some fictional being started the evolution is nonsense doesn't make one anti- anything. It's merely pointing out how that is an unfounded assumption.

Sure, it's frustrating trying to defend the undefendable, but trying to create a group to attack out of thin air as a response, that is just wrong.

Blablahb:

keiskay:
i wish it did solve that problem but its not good enough for the anti-theist community.

Unsurprising. No such community exists, so how could it ever approve of anything?

The only use for that word is to generalise and demonize people who criticise religion or religious nonsense. Pointing out that assuming some fictional being started the evolution is nonsense doesn't make one anti- anything. It's merely pointing out how that is an unfounded assumption.

Sure, it's frustrating trying to defend the undefendable, but trying to create a group to attack out of thin air as a response, that is just wrong.

oh blah balb you and your ignorance there is such a thing as anti-theism, whether you accept or not since you always like to use the no true Scotsmen fallacy every time i bring up an atheist or anti-theist who dont fit your idealistic views of atheist and anti-theist. i can very well group together people who have a common goal, it is very fair. if a large collection of individuals has one goal and is actively working towards that oal they are a group. anti-theism is a group whether you accept that or not is none of my concern. atheism on the other hand is not a group since atheism has no goals.

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