Fun at OU

Alright, I'm in a bit of a time crunch, but I'll try to tell my story short and sweet. On Monday, I was leaving my class and was heading to one of the public buildings at my University to have lunch. On my way, I noticed some people, with what appeared to be posters of Obama. It caught my attention, so I went a bit closer. Unfortunately, the closer I got, the worse the poster looked.

"Impeach Obama" with a hitler-moustache to boot, and I decided to text a friend that we had some political extremists at the university. Now, if you think these guys are who you think they are, don't go. Not yet, believe me, it's interesting...

I went to lunch near a window so I could get a good look at them, and I told my friend I'd confront them (albeit while acting oblivious)to see what kind of republicans they were. I looked at some of the banners, and noticed something that didn't add up. "LeRouche Democrats". Nah...these guys can't be democrats. Can they?

So I went up to them, and one of the guys looked around, looked at me for a split second, and said "Hey, Don't be a dinosaur now, ya hear?". Another man, somewhat shorter then me (probably 5'11", I'm on the taller side) called me over. I obliged, and I listened. And I knew I was in for something right at the beginning.

"Obama wants to put us into a thermo nuclear war with Russia and China!" I could have confronted him then, but I was curious of their opinions. particularlly since Obama, compared to his republican rivals, tends to ask question first, and then shoots. So if Obama made us in a risk for that, then he was the best of the worst. Anyhow...

He started talking about how Iran didn't have nuclear weapons, and that the UN wanted Israel to attack Iran so it would escalate up to a nuclear war. Apparently Libya was a poor war on Obama's belt, as the man said Iran would be "Obama's next Libya". Admittedly, I kind of spaced out around then, as most of what he said needed a lot of evidence before I even listened to them intently.

Around this time, a women walked by, saw the sign, and walked faster with a face full of disgust. "For shame..." she said. The taller man (the first one I met) yelled "Oh, so *WE* should be ashamed and not him?". That caught my mind, and I asked the shorter man why Obama should be impeached. "For overtly destroying the constitution, and being bought by those neocons!" Wait, WHAT? I thought obama was a socialist, not a neocon.

So the man talked more about things that honestly didn't make much sense (at least till I read some of the papers he gave me), something about monetary policy and environmentalism being lies, obama wanting to kill 5 billion people to stop over-population, and something about increasing energy flux. Another person, not part of the group, walked up to the taller man. They talked a bit, and the taller man said something. "Yeah, this guy *points to the shorter man* is running for congress!" Yeah, the shorter man's name is Bill Roberts. And he was the first man running for congress I met in person. I'm flattered...

Eventually he talked about some plan to turn deserts into forests, with a plan called "NAWAPA", or North American Water and Power Authority. When he described it, it made little sense, but when I read the paper for it, I was almost for downright endorsing it. To put it mildly, it would be the TVA (tennessee Vally Authority) for all of the western US. It's a bit more complex then that, but if it was environmentally and ecologically possible, I'd be all for it.

Another man, probably on the younger side, walked by the circus show, saw the sign, and went "Hey, that sign is the stupidest thing I've ever seen!". The taller man got ready to fire his insult cannon. "Oh yeah? so this man *points to the Bill Roberts* is the stupidest man ever? yeah right" I took it as my time to leave. Roberts told me about a few events, like a town hall meeting on the 11th. I'm not planning to go.

So yeah, I guess the discussion here is a few questions.

Have you ever dealt with crazy political activists?
Any that were very...unmainstream?
Have you ever heard of the LaRouche Democrats?
And do you think Obama should be impeached?

I won't dispute those people had quite a bit of crazy to them, but Obama really isn't the diplomatic peace-lover he campaigned as. He brags about Libya and killing Bin Laden. He's putting heavy sanctions on Iran, which are an act of aggression and do nothing but hurt the poor of the country. He said he would end wars, but then he pulled out of Iraq on Bush's original schedule and tripled the ground force in Afghanistan. There hasn't been any percievable change in foreign policy for decades despite every single non-incumbant running on some version of a peace-platform.

Conflict of interest here, I am a Ron Paul guy, but one of the interesting debates online right now is among progressives deciding on Ron Paul, and the reason why progressives would ever consider voting for Ron Paul, who in all economic matters completely disagrees with them, is that he is actually the peace and freedom candidate, debateably in all aspects, but certainly when it comes to national security and foreign affairs. Obama has done just as much as Bush did to bully other nations and empower the police state here, so all the peace vote that got Obama elected (if they've been paying attention to his presidency and not just his campaign platform) has nowhere to go but Ron Paul, which a liberal doesn't want to do.

It's a fascinating discussing, I'll edit in some links if I can find them.

Edit: Here's the one that says it all best. http://www.salon.com/2011/12/31/progressives_and_the_ron_paul_fallacies/singleton/

I can tell you, true progressives have mountains of reasons to be pissed at Obama. That is not an exaggeration.

Do you know what a fringe political group is? For example, there are also the people who believe the government is trying to kill us with chemtrails. These people, contrary to what one could believe looking at their research and information, tend to fall heavily on the side of "completely fucking insane". A good way to tell is to look for signs of conspiratorial depopulation - if they start talking about the government planning to kill millions or billions to bring the world's population under control, they're most likely nuts. Things that seem to belong more heavily in the realm of science fiction permeating the discussion (reforesting the desert? What?) tend to also be a good sign that they're nuts[1]. In general, just keep your bullshit meter handy.

Also... Doesn't LaRouche ring a bell in some other connotation? Imma look this up.

[1] Exception, of course, being Gingrich's moon base, which is entirely sane and totally a good idea.

worldruler8:
Have you ever heard of the LaRouche Democrats?

Yes. I know a bit about them.

LaRouche is kind of a loony. He's primarily a conspiracy theorist political campaigner. He's also notably anti-Semitic, Anglophobic, homophobic, and a few others. Needless to say, like many such cranks, he suckers in a bunch of like-minded stooges, and they are the LaRouche Movement.

He originally came from the extreme left, which is the only reason I can think he claims to adhere to the Democratic Party, given that his policies have never borne much similarity to those of the Democrats.

They are to politics a bit like what the Westboro Baptist Church are to religion. Small, irritating, risible, but ultimately irrelevant.

Some pro-life group at my old university tried to set up the Genocide Awareness Project displays in the quad two years ago, and were proptly arrested. For those of you who don't know the GAP, it is basically this traveling sideshow that pro-life university groups use. The displays usually consist of giant photos of real, historic violence conflated with graphic photos of actual abortions.

I actually saw their application since I was working in the housing department the summer before, and predicted it would not end well. They were denied the right to the quad since it is next to the library and were asked to set up in one of the high traffic central buildings instead provided their displays were in another room, so people had the choice to see them or not. They instead tried to martyr themselves by going to the quad and are attempting to sue the school (though legally, they were in the wrong). Hilariously enough, they've been all but forgotten by most students.

The group itself wasn't exactly outside the mainstream, but I'd say their methods were.

EDIT: And no, Obama should not be fucking impeached. What exactly would be the grounds for it?

chewbacca1010:

EDIT: And no, Obama should not be fucking impeached. What exactly would be the grounds for it?

The only ones I remember (the rest I deemed too insane to remember) are:

1)He wasn't born in the US
2)He's the antichrist
3)He's a muslim (not sure why that factors in at all)

Though Hawaii was at one point not a state, but that can be said for most states :P

Leftist extremists seem to be quite common sight at universities, well at least it is here in Belgium (maybe something to do with the fact universities are public and thus very cheap). I wouldn't be able to count the amount of communist gatherings and alike i've seen on the campus on my fingers and toes. On top of that they seem to often be extremely delusional, when you protest that the tuition fees are too expensive at least be sure the fees are expensive (and i don't consider 800 euro expensive)...

I guess it's something with wanting to be special and rejecting the house-taught values. Only comfort is that when those students will graduate and become adults they'll most likely reject these wanna-be revolutionary commie values again.

I've had some dealings with pro-life idiots. First after they put photos of fetuses through letterboxes with a note saying that not letting children be born is murder and abortion is wrong. Quite a few people were rather pissed at it. My mother had a miscarriage before me, and a neighbour across the street at the time had four before they stopped trying to have children. Being indirectly called a murderess hit her hard. She was a mental wreck for a week. Her husband obviously wanted the head of the guy responsible on a spike in his front yard, and dad was more than a little angry too.

A few years later the same club of creepy pro-lifers wanted to do something similar, and put plastic fetuses through letterboxes. A few kids, remembering what happened earlier and because everybody really liked that women, patrolled the neighbourhood and once we noticed who it was, we tried to talk him out of it. Except we were stupid to do that, pro-lifers have no decency or empathy, so in the end he tried to ignore us and we encouraged him to move on in less friendly terms. In the end even the police got involved. Local police from another village visited the pro-life creeps at home and strongly advised them not to proceed with their planned action in those (far less religious) villages, because it was both unwanted and a threat to public order. Funny enough was that the pro-life creep had the nerve to go crying to a local newspaper about how he was being oppressed because he wasn't allowed to act like a total douchebag and traumatising other people.

Then I attended a counter-demonstration to oppose another bunch of pro-life idiots demonstrating right outside an abortion clinic and harassing everyone who goes inside. Yes, harassing people is illegal, but the police isn't going to care because of religious privilege. They were really nasty people, totally unreasonable, hostile. In the end some people joined who looked like squatters, and they threw eggs against signs the pro-lifers held. Of course they took the opportunity to go crying about it, and when a horrid religious extremist feels threatened, the police does show of course. I didn't want to run the risk of getting in trouble over something that minor, so I had to make myself scarce.

It's a sad state of affairs really, how far religious privilege goes here. Harassing people and calling them murderers: allowed. Trying to have a decent discussion to oppose freakish morons: illegal.


Well, and a few dealings with silly extreme-left fascists at university, but that was more in passing. Had to point out to one of them who was leafleting against Israel he was wearing a shirt in Hamas-green with a slogan I recognize from Hamas bandanas. The idiot had no idea.

I heard someone actually got assaulted by those fascists because they were badgering everyone to take some hate propaganda leaflets ("everyone who's less extreme-left than us is a nazi!!", that sort of thing) and some guy answered he refused, because he was going to vote for the PVV party. Reason enough for the fascists to attack him, apparently. Later on some veterinary students took it upon themselves to break out the windows on the university building they were squatting in so they didn't have to pay rent (it was right next to a stable for very sick horses) and the subzero temperatures forced them out soon enough. Never had any trouble with them since.

Anyone else think it's funny how both Bush and Obama have gotten the Hitler treatment from their most extreme critics?

Also, there's a guy who visits the universities in Missouri. We call him Brother Jed. He goes to the campus, picks a high-traffic area (that's still legitimate for him to speak on, of course), and starts yelling and screaming at everybody. He calls all of the women whores (especially the sorority types) and basically tells them they've got no business doing anything apart from being married and having babies, tells the gays they're all doing to hell, and generally causes a stir on campus. He's even gone so far as to bring his wife and daughters along, standing them up as examples of how "good Christians" should be. Needless to say he make the campus newspaper with every visit, and gets quite a rise out of people.

The funny thing is, he calls himself a United Methodist, and he's actually a member of the Methodist church my brother and sister in law go to in Columbia, Missouri. They told me that a while back, their church had a few meetings to discuss how to welcome more homosexuals into the church. Not to change them or anything, just to reach out and show them there's a church out there that accepts them for who they are. Brother Jed attended these meetings, and do you know what he did? Absolutely nothing. The man's a coward. He'll go and spew hateful bile at a bunch of strangers, but when it comes to the people he has to see and interact with on a regular basis he won't do it.

Then there's gay week on campus. That gets interesting...the LBGT groups on campus right a whole bunch of pro-gay and inspirational quotes in chalk on the sidewalks around campus. Then the fundamental Christian groups (not all of them, mind, just the REALLY conservative ones) and conservative Republican group write little Bible verses and quotes of their own next to their inspirational quotes. Then they all start to congregate at these spots throughout the day and get into heated debates. So it's a fascinating mix of aggressive and passive-aggressive disagreement. Very fun to watch, and just a bit sad.

Y'know, it almost sounds like those guys are trying to parody the right wing crazies. I hereby invoke a political corollary to Poe's Law.

The La'Rouchies are still around? Haven't from them in years. I made their acquaintance vicariously at first, researched them a bit, and decided they were batshit insane. I told them so whenever a group of them tried to give me some pamphlets while I was passing them on the street. They didn't take it well, but also validated my point by listing off a whole bunch of terrible things that would happen if people like me didn't wake up soon.

One of my roommates brought a stack of their pamphlets home one day and, over the next few days, read one whenever he needed a laugh. He would also quote LaRouche from time to time. Come to think of it, I'm surprised LaRouche isn't listed on TvTropes on the Fountain of Memes page.

Oh yeah, the LaRouchers. They've been at this kind of buttnuttery for a long time. Agema called it, they're kind of the political equivalent of the WBC. Right down to the cult aspect, from what I'm seeing off a google search.

Yeah, I looked them up last night when I got my computer fixed. (she's fine now) It's just...ugh, out of all the political activists that could come to my university, why them? They say he's a conspiracy theorist, and that's EXACTLY what I felt when I talked to Bill Roberts. Well, I guess it's about time I had some political crazies from the left, now it's a bit more balanced.

usmarine4160:

chewbacca1010:

EDIT: And no, Obama should not be fucking impeached. What exactly would be the grounds for it?

The only ones I remember (the rest I deemed too insane to remember) are:

1)He wasn't born in the US
2)He's the antichrist
3)He's a muslim (not sure why that factors in at all)

Though Hawaii was at one point not a state, but that can be said for most states :P

Or signing away the 7th amendment and ordering the assassination of a 16 year old son of a US citizen...

tstorm823:

usmarine4160:

chewbacca1010:

EDIT: And no, Obama should not be fucking impeached. What exactly would be the grounds for it?

The only ones I remember (the rest I deemed too insane to remember) are:

1)He wasn't born in the US
2)He's the antichrist
3)He's a muslim (not sure why that factors in at all)

Though Hawaii was at one point not a state, but that can be said for most states :P

Or signing away the 7th amendment and ordering the assassination of a 16 year old son of a US citizen...

Bolded the relevant part.

Stagnant:

tstorm823:

usmarine4160:

The only ones I remember (the rest I deemed too insane to remember) are:

1)He wasn't born in the US
2)He's the antichrist
3)He's a muslim (not sure why that factors in at all)

Though Hawaii was at one point not a state, but that can be said for most states :P

Or signing away the 7th amendment and ordering the assassination of a 16 year old son of a US citizen...

Bolded the relevant part.

Are you suggesting that revoking the right to trial by jury (NDAA) or the assasination of a 16 year old US citizen (see here) are insane reasons to consider impeaching a president? Had Bush assassinated US citizens would you have disagreed with impeaching him for it?

tstorm823:
Are you suggesting that revoking the right to trial by jury (NDAA) or the assasination of a 16 year old US citizen (see here) are insane reasons to consider impeaching a president? Had Bush assassinated US citizens would you have disagreed with impeaching him for it?

You mean a bill that passed the senate 97-3 and which literally was the Army's funding for the next year and killing a major terrorist operative on foreign soil?

Stagnant:

tstorm823:
Are you suggesting that revoking the right to trial by jury (NDAA) or the assasination of a 16 year old US citizen (see here) are insane reasons to consider impeaching a president? Had Bush assassinated US citizens would you have disagreed with impeaching him for it?

You mean a bill that passed the senate 97-3 and which literally was the Army's funding for the next year and killing a major terrorist operative on foreign soil?

You mean the bill he unhesitantly said he would veto a few weeks before and then changed his mind because they took out the controversial section and replaced it with almost exactly the same thing, and the killing of a 16 year old at an afternoon bbq outside of the declared warzone with 8 unintended casualties?

And note, this is not a major terrorist operative. This is that operative's son, killed in a completely different attack.

tstorm823:
Are you suggesting that revoking the right to trial by jury (NDAA) or the assasination of a 16 year old US citizen (see here) are insane reasons to consider impeaching a president? Had Bush assassinated US citizens would you have disagreed with impeaching him for it?

Bush had dozens of people killed and even more tortured. And remember the shameless political trial against John Walker Lindh that was a walking legal contradiction?

Difference between Bush and Obama: Obama is honest enough to not force such things to be kept secret.

tstorm823:
You mean the bill he unhesitantly said he would veto a few weeks before and then changed his mind because they took out the controversial section and replaced it with almost exactly the same thing, and the killing of a 16 year old at an afternoon bbq outside of the declared warzone with 8 unintended casualties?

And note, this is not a major terrorist operative. This is that operative's son, killed in a completely different attack.

Uhm, you can't veto a 97% majority as US president. Well, you can in theory, but you'd be overruled and just waste time.

Besides, doing that would be undemocratic. Overall, Americans want the right to a fair trial to be cancelled in case of horrid crimes such as looking up an Al Qaida website, or sharing music over the internet. Obama is merely giving the voters what they want.

Blablahb:

tstorm823:
Are you suggesting that revoking the right to trial by jury (NDAA) or the assasination of a 16 year old US citizen (see here) are insane reasons to consider impeaching a president? Had Bush assassinated US citizens would you have disagreed with impeaching him for it?

Bush had dozens of people killed and even more tortured. And remember the shameless political trial against John Walker Lindh that was a walking legal contradiction?

Difference between Bush and Obama: Obama is honest enough to not force such things to be kept secret.

There has been a 40% increase in the quantity of "classified" documents from Bush to Obama, so that doesn't hold either.

There is no difference in the administrations.

Guys, don't want to be a bother, but if you want to discuss the NDAA bill and the role the government should have on domestic terrorism, make a new thread, as this is for people to discuss political activists that behave irrationally.

worldruler8:
Guys, don't want to be a bother, but if you want to discuss the NDAA bill and the role the government should have on domestic terrorism, make a new thread, as this is for people to discuss political activists that behave irrationally.

Sorry. Twas cross-thread argueing and unexceptable on our part.

It's my experience that the vast majority of political activists behave rationally, and if they are doing something rediculous it is either a) they are misinformed and basing their reasoning on that or b) just trying to get attention.

The only group similar to these stories I have personally talked to is actually that same Genocide Awareness Project. I don't know how they were getting kicked off places in the above person's story since at my university they went through every necessary step for permission. They clearly fall into the "trying to get attention" category, and they know that and try to prepare for the controversy. They didn't come here expecting a warm welcome.

The funny part was that they put up warning signs the size of a scientific poster to tell you not to look at their giant corpse billboards. It was one of those "thanks a bunch, that was so helpful" moments.

 

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