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I say that if you're going to have something as fucking dangerous as alcohol or tobacco be legal, fuck it, make marijuana legal too. I imagine that people have a negative opinion of weed exclusively because of the agressive anti-"drug" campaigns which specifically target marijuana. All that is is misinformation, I guess. Then there's the dumb hypocritical people who say that you shouldn't put bad things into your body or w/e and smoke and drink later :P... | |
My personal views are it's your body, I don't care what you put it in it. That's my view on sexuality too; I just don't see how it affects me or why I should care at all what other people do, and can't understand people who do. Now, granted, I would have a problem with someone taking harder drugs which cause them to lose control, but that's an entirely different issue; marijuana never sent someone on a homicidal rampage, and never will. I used to smoke but had to stop for many reasons; work, my band (I sing and smoking anything screws up my throat pretty bad), and my growing tolerance to it; it got to the point where it just costed more than I wanted to spend. I don't view it as wrong, and I find anyone who does hypocritical. It's a fact that just about everyone has, at atleast one point in their life, drank coffee to wake up. They used a chemical substance to achieve a desired change in their body. How using marijuana to chill out is any different is beyond me. | |
I'm not too surprised to see other people that feel similar to me. I think one reason is because some people don't know when, or why it was illegalized. My friend just watched Reefer Madness tonight and I told him that movie caused it to be illegalized. He figured it was made illegal in the 60's because Woodstock was allowed to happen. | |
The History Channel has actually had a lot of great documentaries telling the story.... It's just crazy to hear the claims they made back then...They went so far as to accuse it of causing murders even. | |
Weed is much more refined than it was in the 60's and much more potent, so comparing it to the 60's isn't a really apt analogy anymore. I personally have a problem with drugs because it changes your brain chemistry so profoundly as to effect the very core of your being. You stop being you whilst you're high. Your brain is the very foundation of your being and making it something it isn't is temporarily killing you as a person. Not the health reasons but because of the profound philosophical ramifications of manually changing yourself. No, painkillers don't count. Smoking is gradually being phased out, which I'm happy with, because it's rather obvious to me that the only stress relief smokers get is the relief of temporarily killing the cravings. The stress you kill is stress you get from smoking in the first place. Everything else is just health damaging. This goes for Caffeine, too, interestingly enough. If you need a cup of coffee to get out of bed in the morning, well, now you know why. Psychiatric medication counts but if you tell me that it's the same thing as taking pot to calm yourself I will immediately ask you to make that same argument when you're sober. Read Penny Arcade for good reasons for that one. Anyway, those are my reasons. I don't condone pot, but I sure as hell have a well thought out reason for it, I'm not going to be a sensationalist idiot going "Drugs are bad, m'kay". | |
This is very true, and is why there needs to be government grown cannabis, so the strength is always known. I'd rather smoke really weak strains than skunk any day, but it's impossible to know on the street.
It's not possible to have one cup of coffee, have a very small amount of painkillers, or have just one toke of a joint? If you're going to stand by your argument that changes in brain chemistry change who you are (which I believe is quite a flawed outlook, because neurochemistry changes all the time in response to natural lifestyles), then you've got to include all drugs in this category.
Several forms of psychiatric medication have way more risks than illegal drugs, and have similarly weird side-effects. OT: I wouldn't actually want to smoke weed incredibly often, maybe the odd joint every other 6 months. I would like the right to be able to smoke it though, and it seems like general public opinion is heading that way, along with all other drugs (the politics in the 60's really seem to have set us back). | |
We differ on a very fundamental issue in the debate here: I don't believe that using a chemical to temporarily change yourself is wrong. Also I feel the need to mention I change more as a person when I pick up a guitar and go on stage than I did when I used to smoke weed. A temporary change, that I view as acceptable. A permanent one however can be a terrible thing...this is probably why I am very much against hard drugs: I've seen what they do, it's not pretty. They fundamentally change people from who they used to be, oftentimes permanently. Thanks for using an actual argument though; even if I disagree, you do make a valid observation. | |
No, wrong. Nicotine has psychoactive effects: increases adrenaline, dopamine, acetylcholine and endorphines. The killing of cravings plays a role yes but it's not the primary reason. | |
Ah, I'd disagree with you. In some cases, it definitely becomes one of the main reasons. Watching my father trying to quit smoking several times, he always ended up smoking just to relieve the stress caused by not smoking, the withdrawals. While that's definitely not the entirety of the stress relief, it is a facet. A big one. | |
My only issue with weed is that I work in a gas station and sell cigarellos and black and milds. Things people put weed in. Please know what the fuck you're buying when you come in. It's the equivalent of someone walking up to the counter and saying, "Give me a soda" and leaving it at that, when in actuality they want a Sprite. It just enhances the stupid stoner stereotype to me. I've never tried it, probably never will. I have fundamental issues with smoking no matter what. But I consider it to be like drinking. If you're going to do it, do it at home, with friends, occasionally, and don't let it affect you're life. Sometimes I really need a drink to cope with the day. | |
Disclaimer: im all for marijuana legalization. Still, I also have an issue with people pretending the drug is the bestest thing ever without any side effects, honest! Thats bullshit. Using the drug as a means of coping is a very, very dangerous thing to do and you wont realize why until its too late. My advice is to just stop and not use it at all. Trust me on this one. Also, there are almost no proper tests done on what long term effects marijuana has on the human brain. All of them are biased one way or the other. So until we have those tests, please dont spout the whole "no side effects" thing. http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/ | |
That's nonsense. Marijuana is much more dangerous. The only way that comparison is ever made is because people compare decades of smoking cigarettes or years of heavy drinking to occasionally smoking marijuana. The only way to compare is through equal amounts, and then for instance one would notice THC is about 40.000 more toxic than alcohol, and nobody's ever gone psychotic from two beers, or went jumping out windows after four cigarettes because they thought they could fly. If we're talking concious misinformation, than we'd sooner be talking about a sort of pot lobby trying to downplay the consequences of their drug. Why for instance do you never hear them about demotivational syndrome? Why not about immediate permanent brain damage that occurs when minors smoke pot? The primary damage is to brain centres that control emotions. What I note in potheads of that age is that they don't care about anything except smoking anymore, and their mood changes when confronted with setbacks are very erratic. Coincidence? I doubt it. And that latter is coming from someone who deals with real drug fiends whenever at work. The behaviour of pot addicts isn't all that different from coke fiends, heroin junkies and such. I much prefer drunkards because they are themselves, but just without the brakes on, for better of for worse, I can at least predict them and reason with them. And another thing I notice is because here in the Netherlands we made the mistake of more or less legalising marijuana, is that the average age of users broke through the floor: I've seen them as 12, and some 16-17 is the average age. And those are the cases whose addiction has gotten so bad that school or parents find out, and convince them to seek aid, meaning people must be starting somewhere around age 10 or 11 to end up in our care by 12 or 13. Comparing: Cocaine users tend to be in their 30's, drunkards are never younger than 40 and heroin addicts are somewhat similar because those mostly started in the 80's and drug education made people avoid that drug. I'd say the 'pot is harmless' lobby is very dangerous. | |
The only reason it's illegal is social inertia and conservativism, really. Most people can't be assed to look into the facts surrounding marijuana or other drugs, because they're frankly not very interested in it. They trust the lawmakers to such an extent as to assume it is illegal for a reason. In reality, it's far less dangerous than alcohol. I really dislike the idea that such a comparatively harmless drug should be kept illegal. Sadly, such a thing is not allowed. With no logical argument to back up the ban. | |
Because, kids failing school, getting addicted, fucking up their lives, going into a psychosis and being mental wrecks for the rest of their lives, that's of course perfectly normal and feel free to pretend none of that mattered. You're the one who's selectively blind to facts, also for repeating the myth that alcohol is somehow more damaging, while THC is thousands of times more toxic. | |
I'm curious as to what your sources are here.
I've never heard of anyone going psychotic from marijuana either. Would love to see some sources. I've heard of lots of people dying from alcohol poisoning though. (source: Wikipedia, because I can't be bothered to look through a shitload of stuff for more reliable sources.) That means to kill me, I'd have to consume (orally) between 30 and 70 kg (70-140 lbs) of pure THC. Tobacco is by far the most lethal, and should by your logic be outlawed.
I tried googling this "demotivational syndrome".
I have a hard time finding anything that supports this claim. There are some sources that claim chronic THC usage causes the brain to age faster, but as not much is known about the long term effects of THC, they aren't all that credible.
Do you work in a rehabilitation centre? If so, you are only seeing the worst case scenarios, and chances are most of those have preceeding conditions that may have something to do with what you're observing.
I know not a single person who's dropped out of school on account of their drug use. Responsible use of alcohol is not more damaging than responsible use of marijuana. I never said such a thing. | |
There is nothing wrong with Mary Jane. Now, coke and stuff like that, yeah, that sucks. But Mary Jane is completely harmless. As is, by the way, salvia. I think LSD, too, but I'm not sure. | |
I smoke because I am trying to quit drinking or at least get to the point where people don't accuse me of alcoholism. Any time I get a craving for alcohol I take a couple of hits. Having something that is chemically non-addicting is very beneficial for that. | |
Yeah, there's a reason certain drugs can't be addictive. If they don't activate the "reward system" of the brain, then they pretty much can't be addictive. I'm pretty sure pot, LSD, and a couple of other drugs don't activate that portion of the brain, while drugs that are highly addictive (heroin!) do. Anyway, when you Google for info on stuff like this, just click the scholar button and look for legitimate University studies and such. | |
That sounds awfully alot like the age old argument against masturbation, it starts with scratching your genitals as you were a child, then you do it yourself when you get older, then you become an addict with it and then you end up in an Insane Asylum. It's just an unclear attack on what is described as common knowledge, but whenever I find someone that does do drugs they tend to be pretty good students who have their future figured out. | |
I don't believe in weed geniuses. I'm pretty sure any time I've ever seen anyone high on anything they acted like complete idiots (except that time they tried to do purple drank but didn't have enough codiene to split around and ended up all just getting really tired... lol).
Can I assume most of the people you know are good students who have their future figured out? Do you hang out with any bad drop-out students? They do exist in large quantities as anyone from my town can tell you, and yet there are people here who still cherry-pick the successful users and call it an arguement. And it's incredibly fun when someone quits drugs and is suddenly notably successful and overqualified for the job they're in. | |
meh marijuana would be safer if it were legal...there would be research dollars going into making it a marketable product. It's like when people make alcohol without the required licensing and such...because no one is keeping an eye on it, there's no quality and safety control. That being said, I am inclined to say that even if it is legal, you really shouldn't use it...sure most people end up fine, but I know of people in my school who have had their lives ruined by addiction. | |
The question however is whether or not they're chronics, if they're chronics no shit, smoking say 50 hits a day is bad for you, just like how drinking 50 cups of coffee or eating 50 cheeseburgers per day is also bad for you. Of course smoking 1 or 2 hits whenever you feel stressed out or exhausted probably won't have any significant long term consequences just like drinking 1 or two cups of coffee when you're tired or when you're hungry and sometimes eat 1 or 2 cheeseburgers. Besides other factors account for dropping out, just not having the work ethic or the care about graduating, having learning disabilities etc. should we establish mandatory bootcamps for these people? So why do we insist that weed should be banned? Why not also ban fast food and establish an obesity police which goes door to door making sure people are eating right and exercising? Why not force mandatory sports team enrollment? You can argue day and night about how a drug is bad for you, but if the effects of things that are legal to do and won't be seen as illegal anytime soon are still there you just look like a hypocrite whose doing more harm than good.
You mean be responsible for drug use? That's fine, there's nothing wrong with it being legal, the thing is is that it's your fault if it has any negative effects on you and you need to take responsibility for it. | |
You said that drug users tend to be good students. Would you say caffiene users tend to have consistent energy or cheeseburger fans tend to lose weight? You cannot extend my response to you into hypocrisy without making gross assumptions on my stance from extremely little. All I was doing was contesting your claim that drugs don't make unmotivated people. | |
No I didn't, I said the few instances when I find out people who do drugs they're not necessarily all F students who drop out.
Ok? My point was that drugs are only a small part of what makes these people bad, there are other factors in it and that it doesn't make any sense to ban weed for things like this. | |
I think all drugs should be legalised. What someone puts in their body has nothing to do with anyone else. I don't know why some people think they have a right to dictate what others do with their own body. | |
It's still less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco though.
Well yeah if that's your personal reason for not taking drugs then that's fine. But what if someone doesn't have a problem with temporarily changing their brain chemistry? Why should they not be allowed to do it? I hardly think it's fair that a person's personal hangups with something should be legislated on.
And you can take weed without the express purpose of getting stoned off your ass.
Again, if you don't like smoking then fine, but I don't know why you have to have such a problem with other people doing it. If they use cigarettes as a stress reliever, so what? How does it harm you? | |
Personally I think it should be legalised and regulated. I find alcohol a really much more sinister drug than weed, and tobacco is just harmful and pointless. | |
Doing drugs is dumb, really really dumb, but so is pretty much everything else. You do what you want with your body, some of my friends smoked weed, most of them were cool guys. The other dropped out of school and developed paranoia. | |
i smoked pot once, didnt care for it and thought it was waste of money. if you smoke it and enjoy good on you just dont let it be something that you always gotta do for fun or to be able to function properly. now before people start jumping on me. let me say this some people can smoke pot all day and never develop a reliance to it, which is why the argument for pot being addicting is usually iffy. but there are other people who when they smoke pot literally develop a psychological dependency for the drug and feel like they need it to go to work, go to school, sleep, have fun and many other things, these people though will probably also gather addictions and dependencies to many different substances. now after all thats said and done alcohol is pretty much the same way but chemically addictive and much more dangerous. so just fucking legalize it in the U.S already. | |
I'm not responsible for you doing your homework. That drugs are harmfull is common knowledge. However, here goes just one of many possible sources:
Yes, it is nonsense. But hey, I'm not the one who started the debate on what's more dangerous, I'm merely refuting people comparing years of heavy drinking to one blunt in order to paint their favourite drug in a more positive light.
You picked rats because those showed the most THC resistance, and probably admission through the air. For mice it's already less than half that. Intravenous injection showed a much faster rate too. Bottom line is, the "Alcohol is worse, hur dur!" slogan remains nonsense.
hit 1: Health forum of a pot smoker who developed that and paranoid schizofrenia Or you could've gone to the second page and find this wikipedia page: Or this study:
You're basically saying "I can't see it with the naked eye, so it doesn't exist". That's not how it works for such things. Actually all of them have brain damage.
No, it's mostly the main office, the first line of treatment. And if you see an alarming number of children suffering from heavy cannabis abuse because of legalisation, there is a clear and serious problem. No other drug even remotely has the same amount of addicts of even near that age. Especially since we only see those who seek treatment or are compelled to seek treatment by parents or school. This means there's another large group of severe marijuana addicts who stay just under the radar. Clearly legalisation is a bad thing. Marijuana is a harddrug, and both drug education and enforcement should treat it as such.
Not quite. The number of alcoholics is tiny compared to the number of users. It takes years of heavy drinking to actually become addicted. People sometimes make the mistake of atributing the average pub brawl to alcohol, but that's a consequence of people's own actions. The part where someone is compelled to drink only comes after addiction. Fortunately the people in that state of alcoholism is extremely small compared to the number of users. Whereas every minor smoking marijuana suffers permanent brain damage, mostly concentrated on memory, learning capacity and emotional control, and the ratio of addicts compared to users is much much higher.
Nonsense. Plenty of people have gotten themselves hurt while stoned. I've never seen someone drink two beers and then jump out of a 3rd story window because they thought they could fly. In Amsterdam, that happens more than yearly to stoned tourists. Here's a newspaper article containing two such cases: The victim on whom the pothead fell in the second case, an 18 year old tourist from Brasil, was gravely injured and will be unable to walk for the rest of his life. Talk to him about the blessings of legalising marijuana I'd say. The third case in the last paragraph was a French girl who had used marijuana and mushrooms, and then jumped off a bridge, onto a motorway, and died. | |
The legalization of marijuana would not be a good thing. As Blah says, no matter what the potheads say there are some considerably bad downsides. Saying that, in a lot of US states the punishments are far too harsh. The punishment needs to fit the crime and in the case of weed this is hardly the case. 1 in 6 of the prisoners in the US are in for marijuana, this is just retarded. There are cases of people with life sentences because of having a joint on them and living in a state with the fucked up three strike law. Decriminalization is the way to go. For possession of small amounts for personal use it is just s fine, say $200. Having 1 or 2 plants for personal cultivation is a similar punishment. Having larger amounts in order to sell it is what should get you in trouble, but it should climb with the amount. If you have 30 plants then you do not have a large operation, more than likely you are supplying a small number of regulars. In this case the crime does not warrant a sentence like 10 years in jail, at worst its a fine of a few thousand dollars and some community service. The larger the operation the larger the punishment. Jail time should be restricted to things like selling to minors or cultivating large quantities. | |
the problem is, and this is often a very american thing with there view on individual rights, is that drugs are something that does not just effect the individual using them, yes you should have the right to do what you want to your own body, but when what you do interferes with others you have to draw a line. personally i think marijuana should be just like prescription drugs. i think it should be medically legalised, we know it does have some medical benefits but we also know it has side effects. | |
Go right ahead, I have no problem with what you do or do not smoke. I personally don't smoke and have no interest in doing so, but so long as you respect my right to not have to smoke pot or cigarettes, I see no reason why I should interfere with your ability to smoke such things. That sort of thing is what is truly in the spirit of America; for the most part, leaving people be. | |
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I'd kinda like to know why people are so opposed to it; not smoking, but others doing it. (Yes I know this topic has been done to death)
RANT
I've smoked weed for over 2 years through the most troublesome and hectic times of my life and it really functioned incredibly well as a coping mechanism to go along with video games. I've managed to keep the first job I've ever gotten, while smoking weed, and keep it. I've held a steady job and graduated high school with a 3.1 weighted(low in my opinion) and have moved on to college. I haven't flunked out and I've managed to make fairly satisfactory grades so far. So, from my standpoint, it would seem that it doesn't have any negative effects on my brain; excluding some small term memory problems. (I don't know if it's an actual side-effect)
To expand the rant topic I guess would expanding on the statement at the start of the topic. I don't see the bad in it, and I've been on both sides of the influence. I don't understand how doing this makes a person "bad". My use has never made me want to steal or lie to "get a fix" and I can go without doing it. I can't understand how people can look at it and say it's bad because it's illegal when the reason it was legalized was an ass pull anyways. It doesn't have nearly the bad side effects that other drugs do, so why is anyone else to say if a person partakes a little that means they are bad. I've never heard of someone ODing on it, I've never heard of someone killing someone else over small time use etc.
My ex girlfriend acted like I went out and chilled with shady ass people in the middle of the ghetto when I would simply go to my friend's house and stream Netflix for 3 - 4 hours and just talk. My point of this rant is to obviously rant, but I also don't understand why weed has such a huge stigma against it because it's an illegal drug. If anyone asked me, I would always stand by that people should be allowed to smoke weed at their own leisure and that I think it should be decriminalized and treated under the same laws as alcohol (involving use and driving) etc. I can't rationally see the harm in 2 - 3 people smoking and then staying at home eating Doritos.
Escapists, I'd like to see you opinions on this thing. I can't understand why someone would feverishly stand by it remaining illegal or act like doing it makes you a bad person. Though I can easily understand an argument against complete legalization and taxation.