now before anyone calls me a sick pervert, no this thread is not surpporting sexual acts with children at all! i am against it

however i have noticed something rather interesting. there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction in places like britain and america (and here on the escapist) that we must protect our children from anything to do with sex. however when you look at countries or places where sex education starts really early or people are more open about it, you tend to see less teenage pregnancies, STIs dont spread as much and it seems the average age of having sex is much higher. but if we look at lets say the bible belt its not in a good state, and the less said about britain the better (lets be honest we aint in a good state).

No onto sexuality, most people ive ever talked to have said they dont want their children to eb exploring or even thinking about sexuality til they are about 13 or so. but heres my thinking, would it not be better for them to explore at sooner so they may except it later on. during teenage years you go through massive changes, biologically, socially (IE exams, college, leaving home getting a job), why would we add stress on to this?
Now as ive said before i am NOT supporting underage sex, but sexuality is not about the act of sex, it can be about intimacy, kissing, holding hands and general love, why is it so bad for child to figure out what gender they prefer? and to the people who say its wrong for them to think about it, answer this when you were a kid did you watch or read tv shows/films/books that ended in a heterosexual romance? or do you let your kids do so?
isnt that already putting an idea in their head about sexuality and what they should like?

so whats your opinion, my fellow escapists, on this matter about sexual education for children? it does seem to work, especially alot better than the lack of it

Abstinence only education, or misinformation to trick people into abstinence does not work. This has been fairly well established.

Like you say, constant depictions of heterosexual intimacy in the media et al naturally have an impact on children. And yet, it someone tries to show homosexuality in the same way just once, it's brainwashing the kids to be gay.

spartandude:
there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction in places like britain and america (and here on the escapist) that we must protect our children from anything to do with sex.

I must have missed that thread. I'm all for sex education and loosening cultural taboos against children learning about sex. The only thing I'm against is exploiting children to have sex with them, which in saner forums isn't really a controversial position.

however when you look at countries or places where sex education starts really early or people are more open about it, you tend to see less teenage pregnancies, STIs dont spread as much and it seems the average age of having sex is much higher.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Japan is a bit of a complicated example because it's both more and less open about sex, but from what I've read STIs are much, much higher than is publicly acknowledged and the average age of having sex is quite low, though of course a lot of people won't admit it (I've caught my students in the act however.) Worse, adults seem to have much less sex, especially if they are in committed relationships.

No onto sexuality, most people ive ever talked to have said they dont want their children to eb exploring or even thinking about sexuality til they are about 13 or so. but heres my thinking, would it not be better for them to explore at sooner so they may except it later on. during teenage years you go through massive changes, biologically, socially (IE exams, college, leaving home getting a job), why would we add stress on to this?
Now as ive said before i am NOT supporting underage sex, but sexuality is not about the act of sex, it can be about intimacy, kissing, holding hands and general love, why is it so bad for child to figure out what gender they prefer?

Is there anyone stopping this from happening? I had a girlfriend (not a real girlfriend in a romantic sense, but a girl I spent all my time with who was not a friend the way boys were my friend) when I was in 1st grade. I got my first kiss in 2nd grade. I had my first crush in 4th grade. Heck, girls were volunteering to show me their boobs back when they didn't have boobs (and I was too young to understand why people made a big deal of them.) Eventually puberty and acne and the attendant insecurity came along and prematurely terminated my little lover-boy years, but I can't remember any adult trying to stop us.

Katatori-kun:
I must have missed that thread. I'm all for sex education and loosening cultural taboos against children learning about sex. The only thing I'm against is exploiting children to have sex with them, which in saner forums isn't really a controversial position.

I don't think it's a controversial position here, however, I think what spartandude is referring to (and I have seen that here) is the allegation that children can't be exposed to any evidence of the existence of sex - or violence for that matter - because it will somehow innately "corrupt" them, whatever that means.

I think there are two massive problems in contemporary sex education, besides general puritanism of course which I've personally never had to deal with (and thank God) and they relate very much to adults' attitudes to sex, not to the children themselves at all.

1) Many people still assume that children are utterly asexual. Thus, people often aren't familiar with what types of "sexual" behaviours are normal in children (basically, anything that isn't violent or isn't an attempt to penetrate another person), because it's not generally discussed. I was raised in a very open household where being naked, even around children of the opposite sex, was very common, but throughout my life I've begun to realize that this seems to be very uncommon.

The problem this raises is that you end up with parents who have never been open about sex around their children and suddenly have to start when their kids hit puberty, and of course it's awkward and jarring and means your kids won't listen to you.. they know damn well you aren't comfortable about it, you've been telling them that (by specifically not telling them) since they could walk.

2) Even when children do start learning about sex, there seems to be an aggressive desire to "normalize" it. Part of this is adult hangups again, there's a fear that if we don't present sex as something faintly mechanical and specific, then children might try it. There's something cripplingly sex negative about the way we teach sex education to children, it's frighteningly indicative of the kind of neuroses adults have about it, and I think this is why it so often fails to accomplish even basic goals, because in illustrating the fear and nervousness of the adults who teach it and produce material for it, it makes the people who are exposed to it frightened and nervous, and if it's that bad for the straight kids at whom it is explicitly targeted (because after all, sex can't be about pleasure, so it has to be framed around this narrative of 'where do babies come from'), how miserable and alienating must it be to those kids who already know their desires aren't like that.

I know exactly why this is, it's because some joyless fucks (of varying frequency depending on where exactly you live, but with a powerful ability to whine regardless) seem to carry the bizarre assumption that having produced a child is the only way to know anything about them or what is best for them.

To these people, I can only suggest a marilyn manson style sardonic threat, and it goes like this: "you teach your children about sex (and I mean explain to them why you do it, not the sanitized narrative you fob them off on to show them you're too embarrassed) or else the internet will".

Meh.. there I go ranting again. :)

I am very much against abstinence based sex-ed...I can tell you a horny 17 year old, no matter how smart, isn't gonna give a fuck about his/her future (though he/she will be giving a fuck, just not one about his/her future). Plus, it can encourage people to think that they shouldn't prepare for/discuss sex with a relationship partner, they just 'Won't have sex.'

Well, it depends greatly. The age at which kids have sex for the first time is strongly tied to the education they're following (so basically, to their intelligence). The dumber people are the sooner they start.

If one is to go on that, the type of education people are enrolled in should influence when sex education starts, talking about both by parents and at school.

Blablahb:
Well, it depends greatly. The age at which kids have sex for the first time is strongly tied to the education they're following (so basically, to their intelligence). The dumber people are the sooner they start.

..because covariates are for losers! :P

You just can't make that statement. There's no way you could possibly isolate intelligence as a variable, certainly not by simply looking at which school people go to. Educational achievement, by its very nature, is open to external influence (because actually, education is external influence).

Even in a system wherein school attendance is supposedly meritocratic, there will still be common cause variables which predispose certain people towards certain types of schools. People from a higher socio-economic level will always find ways to get their children into "good" schools, it says very little about their natural ability.

To come out with that kind of conclusion, you'd need to come up with a rigorous measure of intelligence (no small feat) and apply it across multiple selected samples to demonstrate that within the same school, within the same socioeconomic background, when comparing like with like at every level, your measure of intelligence influences the age at which people have sex as a general rule.

I don't mean to kick off on this, but seriously..

spartandude:
however i have noticed something rather interesting. there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction in places like britain

How dare you Sir...

*looks at country*

Oh wait... nope, I'm wrong. It is most of the country >.> Just not Herefordshire :)

Yes in America its Religious based no sex before marriage bull. In the UK... most people are overly prudish with their kids.

However in the UK there isn't any emphasis on abstinence in the education system. I went to a (I love this combination) Specialist Science, Catholic school...
Hilarious. Collide Religion and Science and you get a damn good education!

We were taught about both the sexual process and then the extra "additions" like some forms of contraception though detailed information was handed out in written form which was specifically for girls.

STD information was short in the Catholic school and could be summarized to using a condom is a must do if you don't know they are clean (in the context of a relationship). This also includes gay sex which nobody knew until told.

At college the only new thing I learned was more detailed information about STD... which came in image form... and just made me squirm at images of the male member infected D:

----------------------------

In the UK if there is a problem then it lays with the parents. I know there was 1 girl who lost her virginity (I've posted about her before, had problems at home) before the *detailed* sexual health lesson. Now her Mum was not normal as she was told everything when she thought her daughter may be getting into a possibly sexual relationship.

Few people have had the talk about sex in anything more than an acknowledgement that it exists and its got something to do with the man putting the thing into a womans parts, that results in a baby...... well at least that was the summary of mine and peers who were talking about it xD

Blablahb:
The age at which kids have sex for the first time is strongly tied to the education they're following (so basically, to their intelligence). The dumber people are the sooner they start.

That is the most bullshit statement I've heard all day :)

Intelligence has little to do with age they begin... its a combination of factors. The main one I would identify would be the "sub-culture" of the school's children.

For example in my school sex was more of an: if you want to, thing. It wasn't frowned upon at all but equally there wasn't really any peer pressure or negativity towards being a virgin.

However there are schools in the area where if you hadn't lost it by 14 you were considered Frigid...

I know 3 very intelligent people from said school and many more who are on par with everyone else at college but they all lost their virginity at 13 or 14.
Its not linked to intelligence but a culure passed from year to year that no amount of school reform can easily dislodge.

You could upright and move all students to a different school but the age they lost their virginity would remain the same.

If there are correlations between schools and ages of losing virginity then that can easily be identified to Parental quality and a lack of social mobility leading to area's of badly raised induviduals in concentration spreading the lack of parenting to others.

Intelligence... pah.

Katatori-kun:

spartandude:
there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction in places like britain and america (and here on the escapist) that we must protect our children from anything to do with sex.

I must have missed that thread. I'm all for sex education and loosening cultural taboos against children learning about sex. The only thing I'm against is exploiting children to have sex with them, which in saner forums isn't really a controversial position.

I wasn't aware this was a "thing" for anyone other than that one chappie who enjoys posting lots and lots of threads. Indeed IIRC the thread which discussed the issue was pretty much everybody making the same argument against said chappie.

My mum gave me basic sex ed ("This is what a menstruation cycle is about, boys put something into a girl to make a baby in her tummy, no one has the right to touch you if you don't want them to") when I was about five or six, mainly because she knew that girls in our family hit puberty really young (I started puberty when I was about eight).

My mum's friend accused her of child abuse for telling me these things so young.

Of course I wasn't upset or disturbed by a matter-of-fact verbal biology lesson, with the added benefit that I wasn't confused or frightened by any changes or feelings I developed in the next few years. I didn't have sex until it was legal and I've never had unprotected sex. (Although me going to a girl's secondary school may have had some influence on that too.)