So what happens when we die?

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This isnt an athiest Vs "theist" question. But more a what is your opinion

I "practice" Islam but it wouldnt be accurate to call myself a muslim. Im definitely agnostic for the most part, and i believe in a higher power. Since i dont ascribe to the general ideology of heaven and hell, i often wonder exactly what happens when we die.

The whole "rot in the ground" thing doesn't sit well with me. Aside from being very depressing, it seems a bit too simple for an explanation of the beauty of humanity and life. Regardless of the scientific prowess of today, they have not been able to quantify what a spirit or soul is other than denying its existence. With all of our understanding of how the brain and human body works, we have yet to answer definitively the purpose of having dreams. All of these things lead me to the comforting conclusion that something more than rotting happens when we take our last breath. But what is it?

Depends on how you die but if the brain goes from oxygen deprivation you get high for a few minutes while it dies, and this results in getting high. Then you lose all memories and the ability to perceive anything and your remains are, unless preserved, consumed by nature.

At least this is what we know is going to happen. Anything beyond is speculation.

feeqmatic:

The whole "rot in the ground" thing doesn't sit well with me.

Funny, I have the exact opposite opinion. As a citizen of the first world, I know I have consumed well beyond my needs. It is thus a small consolation that at least in death I will become food for something else and thus be consumed. Literally, I will become new life. I find it quite disquieting that in most first-world countries we try to avoid that fate, and there is every chance that despite my wishes I will be pumped full of formaldehyde and locked in a cement vault underground to make it as difficult as possible for me to decompose naturally. Or I'll be burned in a pointless waste of fuel.

All of these things lead me to the comforting conclusion that something more than rotting happens when we take our last breath. But what is it?

This you said you were asking our opinions earlier, but this isn't really an opinion. Opinions require us to have some knowledge, experience, or information with which to form the opinion. By definition, none of us are capable of having that information. So you're not asking for opinions, you're asking for beliefs or guesses.

Personally, I don't know that I care about life after death. The only immortality I want is immortality in memory, to be remembered because I added to the happiness of others.

Disintegration of self.

It is undisputed that the self (i.e. sentience, sapience, and personality) is tied to the brain - hence why brain damage can obliterate or even alter it, and physical hormones affect its state so - so when the functionality of the brain ceases, so does the self. Additionally, the "self" did not exist[1] before the brain came into existence, hence there is no reason to assume it'll stay after it's destroyed.

There is no empirical grounds for theorizing anything else at this point. The chemical and electrical processes of the brain are the rhyme and reason for existence, if not necessarily to it.

...as a side note, how on Earth does one practise a religion - conceptually a system of shared beliefs - without being an adherent to it? That sounds pretty much like claiming to be pregnant, but certainly not carrying a fetus in one's body. Not exactly the best way to legitimize having an objective and rational approach to science, rather than a deeply subjective way of twisting around terminology and concepts to fit one's own personal preferences.

EDIT:

Katatori-kun:
...
Personally, I don't know that I care about life after death. The only immortality I want is immortality in memory, to be remembered because I added to the happiness of others.

...Emiya Shirou, is that you?

[1] Even those who believe in reincarnation would have to agree that the sentience and sapience is not continued, and that it is hence not the same "self". Christians and the like appear to have given no thought to the matter of what/where the self were before if it need not the brain, though I guess it's the usual "A wizard god did it" with them.

Did you care about not being alive before you were born?

feeqmatic:
This isnt an athiest Vs "theist" question. But more a what is your opinion

I "practice" Islam but it wouldnt be accurate to call myself a muslim. Im definitely agnostic for the most part, and i believe in a higher power. Since i dont ascribe to the general ideology of heaven and hell, i often wonder exactly what happens when we die.

The whole "rot in the ground" thing doesn't sit well with me. Aside from being very depressing, it seems a bit too simple for an explanation of the beauty of humanity and life. Regardless of the scientific prowess of today, they have not been able to quantify what a spirit or soul is other than denying its existence. With all of our understanding of how the brain and human body works, we have yet to answer definitively the purpose of having dreams. All of these things lead me to the comforting conclusion that something more than rotting happens when we take our last breath. But what is it?

I'm afraid I think you are falling into the trap of wishful thinking. The fact is that nobody knows what happens after we die but it would be unreasonable to propose anything that goes beyond the fact that everything we know about the human mind is that it, and the brain seem incontrovertibly linked.

One can insert electrodes into the brain and create feelings of intense euphoria and primal fear. Someone can undergo a head trauma and have a complete personality change, indeed essentially becoming an entirely new "person", at least in the sense that everything that made them personable has fundamentally and irrevocably changed. My own Grandmother on my paternal side had Alzheimer's and over the course of a number of years it was clear to see who she once was, was no more.

I don't want to be a killjoy but to say there is something beyond this life, and that their is a soul are both positions of (unreasonable) faith that as far as I can see are grounded solely in the hopes and fears of people.

Lastly I would like to conclude by quoting Mark Twain:

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

We live on through the results of our actions and through the memories of others. Our body though becomes one with the earth again.

Wishful thinking is nice and all, but it's far from true. What we can definitively say about death is that you cease having experiences entirely. You, as a consciousness, completely cease to exist in any form whatsoever, leaving behind the body you inhabited. There isn't a shred of evidence to back up the claims of souls or spirits or afterlives, so I don't believe in them. It's that simple.

Godavari:
What we can definitively say about death is that you cease having experiences entirely.

While I am not personally opposed to your belief, you have overstated your claim. We cannot definitely say that you cease having experiences entirely. All we can say is that we have observed no evidence that suggests a person might experience anything after death.

There isn't a shred of evidence to back up the claims of souls or spirits or afterlives, so I don't believe in them. It's that simple.

Don't confuse an absence of evidence with evidence of absence.

Well in 1988 I had a cardiac arrest due to asphyxiation. I was legally dead according to both the doctors and the the on call coroner for a grand total of 47 minutes.

I didnt realize I was dead til after a moment looking down at my body being worked on by two paramedics. I was actually hovering above my body. At that point I realized OMG i must be dead.

Right after I realized that I went through (like a warp scene in start trek) a tunnel of dim and bright flashing lights. While in this, I saw images, images of me throughout my whole life. They were like a powerpoint session coving your whole 360% view. Now what was this, I later realized that was judgement. Every single thing that I did that was wrong came to the forefront of those images. even the things I thought i had forgotten or had no memory of. They came with extreme clarity.

After this viewing, I had a maddening sense of fear. I was in this dark space. I saw a light in the distance. My fear was even greater with that light. So I intentionally turned from it. Later I realized that I turned away from god. My own fear, the inherent judgement god places within us even if we dont agree with god. Regardless if we believe or not judgement happens.

After I turned back into the darkness I realized I would spend eternity in the dark void, devoid of anything but my own silent screams. Once I realized this, that was when I awoke in a hospital.

Is God real from my view? 200% without a doubt real. I feel bad for those who try to believe in god just based off of faith and faith alone. I feel even worse for those who dont believe. As they are in for a very rude awakening.

There is a difference between knowing and believing. I take that to heart everyday. I also take to heart that many of us wont go in the light. It saddens me, makes me outright angry in some cases. But the reality is I need to worry only for my own spirit and or my own soul.

I very rarely talk about this. As most people get freaked out or think im crazy. Cant blame them! If they experienced what I experienced it would change his or her life as well.

As to the different religions, there really is no right one or wrong one. But what is important are the teachings each one offers that prepares you for your death in this world. The rest IMO is just man trying to exert some kind of control on others. So you can have a eternal afterlife in joy and not hell. I experienced a hell, would not wish that upon my worst enemy. It was maddening!

This time around I wont avoid the light! It was warm and i turned into the coldness. What I just stated is not metamorphic. It is what it is and what really happened.

Katatori-kun:

feeqmatic:

The whole "rot in the ground" thing doesn't sit well with me.

Funny, I have the exact opposite opinion. As a citizen of the first world, I know I have consumed well beyond my needs. It is thus a small consolation that at least in death I will become food for something else and thus be consumed. Literally, I will become new life. I find it quite disquieting that in most first-world countries we try to avoid that fate, and there is every chance that despite my wishes I will be pumped full of formaldehyde and locked in a cement vault underground to make it as difficult as possible for me to decompose naturally. Or I'll be burned in a pointless waste of fuel.

Ashes to Ashes,
Dust to Dust,
If it weren't for Women,
Your Ding Dong would rust

Wait, maybe only the first two lines apply.

On a more serious note OP, I don't know. I'd like to think there is more, but I'm not counting on it. Even if there is more, I don't think it is something we can understand. To quote Spock on the subject, "we would have no common frame of reference".

xpowderx:
Well in 1988 I had a cardiac arrest due to asphyxiation. I was legally dead according to both the doctors and the the on call coroner for a grand total of 47 minutes.

I didnt realize I was dead til after a moment looking down at my body being worked on by two paramedics. I was actually hovering above my body. At that point I realized OMG i must be dead.

Right after I realized that I went through (like a warp scene in start trek) a tunnel of dim and bright flashing lights. While in this, I saw images, images of me throughout my whole life. They were like a powerpoint session coving your whole 360% view. Now what was this, I later realized that was judgement. Every single thing that I did that was wrong came to the forefront of those images. even the things I thought i had forgotten or had no memory of. They came with extreme clarity.

After this viewing, I had a maddening sense of fear. I was in this dark space. I saw a light in the distance. My fear was even greater with that light. So I intentionally turned from it. Later I realized that I turned away from god. My own fear, the inherent judgement god places within us even if we dont agree with god. Regardless if we believe or not judgement happens.

After I turned back into the darkness I realized I would spend eternity in the dark void, devoid of anything but my own silent screams. Once I realized this, that was when I awoke in a hospital.

Is God real from my view? 200% without a doubt real. I feel bad for those who try to believe in god just based off of faith and faith alone. I feel even worse for those who dont believe. As they are in for a very rude awakening.

There is a difference between knowing and believing. I take that to heart everyday. I also take to heart that many of us wont go in the light. It saddens me, makes me outright angry in some cases. But the reality is I need to worry only for my own spirit and or my own soul.

I very rarely talk about this. As most people get freaked out or think im crazy. Cant blame them! If they experienced what I experienced it would change his or her life as well.

As to the different religions, there really is no right one or wrong one. But what is important are the teachings each one offers that prepares you for your death in this world. The rest IMO is just man trying to exert some kind of control on others. So you can have a eternal afterlife in joy and not hell. I experienced a hell, would not wish that upon my worst enemy. It was maddening!

This time around I wont avoid the light! It was warm and i turned into the coldness. What I just stated is not metamorphic. It is what it is and what really happened.

Whilst your experience might have felt real I have to say that I have to say that what happened could just as easily have been the product of your brain as it was shutting down due to a lack of oxygen. Indeed there are many people who after undergoing cardiac arrest see nothing and as such become atheists. Not to mention how heavily peoples cultures feed in to what they see.

feeqmatic:
The whole "rot in the ground" thing doesn't sit well with me. Aside from being very depressing, it seems a bit too simple for an explanation of the beauty of humanity and life.

Life can be very depressing. The whole "children starving to death in Africa" thing doesn't sit well with me, but it'd be ridiculous to deny that it happens. And "too simple"? There's nothing simple about a computer, but when the electricity gets turned off, or the hard drive gets fried, it's still no longer on.

Regardless of the scientific prowess of today, they have not been able to quantify what a spirit or soul is other than denying its existence.

We also haven't been able to quantify what a pfnarghth or a dinklebindis is either. Is our answer to believe not just despite, but partially because of that? Simply because a thing is part of folklore for a long time does not make it real. All of the current evidence points to our entire consciousness being routed through our brains, and that there isn't necessarily anything beyond that. Why should we need more?

With all of our understanding of how the brain and human body works, we have yet to answer definitively the purpose of having dreams.

What's the purpose of anything? Why does something need to have a purpose? It's been shown that the female orgasm is just an evolutionary accident. Excuse me for my jadedness, but if that was "just an accident", then I'm not gonna take it for granted that ANY biological function in our bodies has a purpose, unless we can demonstrate it clearly and objectively.

All of these things lead me to the comforting conclusion that something more than rotting happens when we take our last breath. But what is it?

Key word being "comforting". It's comforting for some to think that there's more to it than just rotting in the ground. It's extremely comforting to hold this idea that there's something more, beyond ourselves, however irrational it is. It's an amazingly good feeling to have the idea that the most powerful being in the universe is looking out for you. But that's all it is. It's an empty comfort.

What happens to our physical body? It rots. Simple as that.

What happens to anything else? Well nothing. We are our physical body. However if I was in a mind to wax philosophical, what happens to us when we die is identical to what happened before we were born.

xpowderx:
After I turned back into the darkness I realized I would spend eternity in the dark void, devoid of anything but my own silent screams.

Well. That explains an awful lot.

I very rarely talk about this. As most people get freaked out or think im crazy. Cant blame them! If they experienced what I experienced it would change his or her life as well.

You're not crazy. Okay, well, I think you're crazy, but definitely not based on this. Near-death experiences like this aren't that rare. And just like personal experiences of god, they're completely and utterly valueless. Furthermore, there is very good reason to believe that this is just our brains playing tricks on us. The Angular Gyrus is a part of the brain largely responsible for recognizing one's own position. Throw that out of whack, and you get things like are described here:

NYT:
Six years ago, another of Dr. Blanke's patients underwent brain stimulation to a different multisensory area, the angular gyrus, which blends vision with the body sense. The patient experienced a complete out-of-body experience.

When the current flowed, she said: "I am at the ceiling. I am looking down at my legs."

When the current ceased, she said: "I'm back on the table now. What happened?"

Further applications of the current returned the woman to the ceiling, causing her to feel as if she were outside of her body, floating, her legs dangling below her. When she closed her eyes, she had the sensation of doing sit-ups, with her upper body approaching her legs.

In fact, OBEs and Near Death Experiences are fairly well-explored and well-explained by scientists. Furthermore, there's another factor to consider. A Muslim who had the same experience would wake up and claim that he saw his god - his specific god. Atheists who have near-death experiences often do not see any form of deity or spirit at all. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you felt your god - your christian god... But if that really happened, why would the same not happen to someone of another religion? Why would they claim to see their own god? It makes perfect sense if you consider that it's the oxygen-starved brain going nuts... Not much if it's your spirit visiting god. In short:

Is God real from my view? 200% without a doubt real. I feel bad for those who try to believe in god just based off of faith and faith alone. I feel even worse for those who dont believe. As they are in for a very rude awakening.

I feel bad for those who have had such personal experiences and failed to see them in the light of skepticism. I liken it to a person who has a vivid dream of a dragon, and then refuses to shake the idea that dragons are real. They're absolutely certain that it constitutes proof of their faith... yet fail to understand just how nuanced and powerful the human brain is, and how much their own confirmation bias is playing into it. Near death experiences are incredibly powerful moments for those involved, and I really don't want to devalue yours. However, you have to understand that it isn't a silver bullet proof of god... not even to several of those who have experienced it themselves.

coolicus:

xpowderx:
Well in 1988 I had a cardiac arrest due to asphyxiation. I was legally dead according to both the doctors and the the on call coroner for a grand total of 47 minutes.

I didnt realize I was dead til after a moment looking down at my body being worked on by two paramedics. I was actually hovering above my body. At that point I realized OMG i must be dead.

Right after I realized that I went through (like a warp scene in start trek) a tunnel of dim and bright flashing lights. While in this, I saw images, images of me throughout my whole life. They were like a powerpoint session coving your whole 360% view. Now what was this, I later realized that was judgement. Every single thing that I did that was wrong came to the forefront of those images. even the things I thought i had forgotten or had no memory of. They came with extreme clarity.

After this viewing, I had a maddening sense of fear. I was in this dark space. I saw a light in the distance. My fear was even greater with that light. So I intentionally turned from it. Later I realized that I turned away from god. My own fear, the inherent judgement god places within us even if we dont agree with god. Regardless if we believe or not judgement happens.

After I turned back into the darkness I realized I would spend eternity in the dark void, devoid of anything but my own silent screams. Once I realized this, that was when I awoke in a hospital.

Is God real from my view? 200% without a doubt real. I feel bad for those who try to believe in god just based off of faith and faith alone. I feel even worse for those who dont believe. As they are in for a very rude awakening.

There is a difference between knowing and believing. I take that to heart everyday. I also take to heart that many of us wont go in the light. It saddens me, makes me outright angry in some cases. But the reality is I need to worry only for my own spirit and or my own soul.

I very rarely talk about this. As most people get freaked out or think im crazy. Cant blame them! If they experienced what I experienced it would change his or her life as well.

As to the different religions, there really is no right one or wrong one. But what is important are the teachings each one offers that prepares you for your death in this world. The rest IMO is just man trying to exert some kind of control on others. So you can have a eternal afterlife in joy and not hell. I experienced a hell, would not wish that upon my worst enemy. It was maddening!

This time around I wont avoid the light! It was warm and i turned into the coldness. What I just stated is not metamorphic. It is what it is and what really happened.

Whilst your experience might have felt real I have to say that I have to say that what happened could just as easily have been the product of your brain as it was shutting down due to a lack of oxygen. Indeed there are many people who after undergoing cardiac arrest see nothing and as such become atheists. Not to mention how heavily peoples cultures feed in to what they see.

Its ok to rationalize. I even know the right temporal lobe is responsible for the feeling of being watched or god phenomena. The difference though, is the out of body experience associated with the death experience. Lets say you are right,it still would not account for the outer body experience watching paramedics do exacty what I saw. As to atheism. I really dont care of you believe or not. I dont want references(most likely dont have any). Because, in the end its my spirit. Just as its yours! You do with you what you think is best. I really dont need to hear the exist or dont exist argument as no one on this whole planet will change my mind. Even to my death again! My answer was directed at the OP.

You can debate this among yourselves. I wont be a part of it. Like I said , for me its not a argument!

xpowderx:
Its ok to rationalize. I even know the right temporal lobe is responsible for the feeling of being watched or god phenomena. The difference though, is the out of body experience associated with the death experience. Lets say you are right,it still would not account for the outer body experience watching paramedics do exacty what I saw.

...And there are good, scientific explanations for this as well.

As to atheism. I really dont care of you believe or not. I dont want references(most likely dont have any).

We do.

Because, in the end its my spirit. Just as its yours! You do with you what you think is best. I really dont need to hear the exist or dont exist argument as no one on this whole planet will change my mind. Even to my death again! My answer was directed at the OP.

You can debate this among yourselves. I wont be a part of it. Like I said , for me its not a argument!

Depressing. As said: like a person who has a vivid dream, and then insists that the dragon he saw therein was real.

feeqmatic:
The whole "rot in the ground" thing doesn't sit well with me.

You can drown in a lake and then rot under water :)

feeqmatic:
Aside from being very depressing, it seems a bit too simple for an explanation of the beauty of humanity and life.

The "beauty of humanity and life" is subjective. Other species don't see the "beauty of humanity" when we're killing them by the millions, poisoning the air and the water etc.

feeqmatic:
Regardless of the scientific prowess of today, they have not been able to quantify what a spirit or soul is other than denying its existence.

I would say "accepting its non-existence" is closer to the truth.

feeqmatic:
With all of our understanding of how the brain and human body works, we have yet to answer definitively the purpose of having dreams.

In my humble opinion, dreams have no purpose. they are just a side effect.
Your whole body is resting but the brain can't just shut down completely and stop thinking. With little outside information (your eyes are closed, your other senses are also less responsive), your brain just starts making shit up to pass the time.
When you imagine something, you can picture it in your head. When you dream, the outside information doesn't interfere with the things you imagine as much so it's more clear.
Your brain can convince you that you see/hear/feel/smell/taste things that aren't really there. Why can't it create simple images that it's perfectly capable of creating while you're awake?

feeqmatic:
All of these things lead me to the comforting conclusion that something more than rotting happens when we take our last breath. But what is it?

How about, instead of a comforting conclusion, you would look for a reasonable conclusion?
Comfort is nice but reality is better.

xpowderx:

coolicus:

xpowderx:
Well in 1988 I had a cardiac arrest due to asphyxiation. I was legally dead according to both the doctors and the the on call coroner for a grand total of 47 minutes.

I didnt realize I was dead til after a moment looking down at my body being worked on by two paramedics. I was actually hovering above my body. At that point I realized OMG i must be dead.

Right after I realized that I went through (like a warp scene in start trek) a tunnel of dim and bright flashing lights. While in this, I saw images, images of me throughout my whole life. They were like a powerpoint session coving your whole 360% view. Now what was this, I later realized that was judgement. Every single thing that I did that was wrong came to the forefront of those images. even the things I thought i had forgotten or had no memory of. They came with extreme clarity.

After this viewing, I had a maddening sense of fear. I was in this dark space. I saw a light in the distance. My fear was even greater with that light. So I intentionally turned from it. Later I realized that I turned away from god. My own fear, the inherent judgement god places within us even if we dont agree with god. Regardless if we believe or not judgement happens.

After I turned back into the darkness I realized I would spend eternity in the dark void, devoid of anything but my own silent screams. Once I realized this, that was when I awoke in a hospital.

Is God real from my view? 200% without a doubt real. I feel bad for those who try to believe in god just based off of faith and faith alone. I feel even worse for those who dont believe. As they are in for a very rude awakening.

There is a difference between knowing and believing. I take that to heart everyday. I also take to heart that many of us wont go in the light. It saddens me, makes me outright angry in some cases. But the reality is I need to worry only for my own spirit and or my own soul.

I very rarely talk about this. As most people get freaked out or think im crazy. Cant blame them! If they experienced what I experienced it would change his or her life as well.

As to the different religions, there really is no right one or wrong one. But what is important are the teachings each one offers that prepares you for your death in this world. The rest IMO is just man trying to exert some kind of control on others. So you can have a eternal afterlife in joy and not hell. I experienced a hell, would not wish that upon my worst enemy. It was maddening!

This time around I wont avoid the light! It was warm and i turned into the coldness. What I just stated is not metamorphic. It is what it is and what really happened.

Whilst your experience might have felt real I have to say that I have to say that what happened could just as easily have been the product of your brain as it was shutting down due to a lack of oxygen. Indeed there are many people who after undergoing cardiac arrest see nothing and as such become atheists. Not to mention how heavily peoples cultures feed in to what they see.

Its ok to rationalize. I even know the right temporal lobe is responsible for the feeling of being watched or god phenomena. The difference though, is the out of body experience associated with the death experience. Lets say you are right,it still would not account for the outer body experience watching paramedics do exacty what I saw. As to atheism. I really dont care of you believe or not. I dont want references(most likely dont have any). Because, in the end its my spirit. Just as its yours! You do with you what you think is best. I really dont need to hear the exist or dont exist argument as no one on this whole planet will change my mind. Even to my death again! My answer was directed at the OP.

You can debate this among yourselves. I wont be a part of it. Like I said , for me its not a argument!

Yes... not an argument because you are not listening. Hell, the very first reply sated how you got high when deprived of Oxygen... is that not rather telling?

OT: We rot, consciousness fades and it is all very impossible to imagine. f you could remember how it felt before you could remember, before you could think and feel, before you were anything, then you can know what death feels like. Fortunately we cannot remember from a time before we had anything to remember with. Otherwise we would either fear going back so strongly that our entire lives would revolve around the paranoid escaping of death, or we would want to have that feeling again far too soon in life. I think uncertainty of how it feels not to feel anything at all is quite important for our sanity...

I agree, OP. Oblivion is very depressing for me too. Lack of existence, to me, is worse then a billion hells. I believe in a Paradise. As to what it is actually like, that would only be speculation on my part because as you can guess, I am not dead.

This has caught my attention, so here's my second post:

xpowderx:
Well in 1988 I had a cardiac arrest due to asphyxiation. I was legally dead according to both the doctors and the the on call coroner for a grand total of 47 minutes.

So? You were dead for 47 minutes? Maybe 4,7 minutes? I smell bull shit but let's continue.

xpowderx:
I didnt realize I was dead til after a moment looking down at my body being worked on by two paramedics. I was actually hovering above my body. At that point I realized OMG i must be dead.

what I think happened is that the brain was running out of oxygen and you heard the voices of the 2 paramedics. Your brain then created this image of what was happening, only from an outside perspective. The brain is capable of doing that, you know.

xpowderx:
Right after I realized that I went through (like a warp scene in start trek) a tunnel of dim and bright flashing lights. While in this, I saw images, images of me throughout my whole life. They were like a powerpoint session coving your whole 360% view. Now what was this, I later realized that was judgement. Every single thing that I did that was wrong came to the forefront of those images. even the things I thought i had forgotten or had no memory of. They came with extreme clarity.

Again, your brain was running out of oxygen and simply started showing the images stored in it to you.

xpowderx:
Is God real from my view? 200% without a doubt real. I feel bad for those who try to believe in god just based off of faith and faith alone. I feel even worse for those who dont believe. As they are in for a very rude awakening.

There is a difference between knowing and believing. I take that to heart everyday. I also take to heart that many of us wont go in the light. It saddens me, makes me outright angry in some cases. But the reality is I need to worry only for my own spirit and or my own soul.

I very rarely talk about this. As most people get freaked out or think im crazy. Cant blame them! If they experienced what I experienced it would change his or her life as well.

I think that you really want your out of body experience to be true. You feel that you've experienced something exceptional and it gave you some kind of purpose in life.
I think however, that it was all just in your brain. A brain slowly dying due to a lack of oxygen.
I read somewhere that when you eat hallucinogenic mushroom, one of the things that they do is limit the oxygen flow into the brain. That's when your brain starts to malfunction, possibly resulting in distorting what you see, even showing you things that aren't there.

Another thing:
What about all those who went through what you went and didn't see shit? In the majority of these type of cases, there's no out of body experience. Why would god only fuck with certain people and not with others? Did they not deserve it? Are out of body experiences reserved for "the chosen ones"?
On another note, some people claim they saw Jesus specifically, while others saw Huhammad. What does that mean?

I'm not saying that you're lying. I'm saying that you've accepted your version of what happened, without enough research about the whole phenomenon.

We die.
Making other claims is scientifically dishonest.
No proof has been provided to indicate that anything happens beside us ceasing to exist though, so I'll stick with the null hypothesis until someone's managed to disprove it, thank you very much.

Personally, I don't find the concept of oblivion distressing in the least. What scares me is the idea of an eternal existence. It sounds horrible. I don't wish to think and emote for the rest of infinity.

If I were to guess/imagine what happens to my mind, the entity I consider "me", though: The body which carries "me" will collapse and no longer be able to sustain "me". "Me" will still exist, but it will not be active. All the individual parts of "me" will exist, but they will not be able to interact in such a way as to form the abstract concept of "me".
Think of it like this: If you pick apart the atoms of a carrot, you still have all that makes up a carrot, but you can't in truth say you have "one" carrot. You have the makings of a carrot, sure, but it isn't "one".
Over time, "me" will decompose into smaller components which will spread through the earth, once again uniting "me" with its heritage. "Me" will travel through the earth, and some parts of "me" may once again become parts of other "me"s - or "they"s if you wish.
The earth will meet its end, and "me" will be spread across the universe. Eventually, all "me"'s motion will end with the heat death of the universe (presuming that theory is correct).

TheDarkEricDraven:
I agree, OP. Oblivion is very depressing for me too. Lack of existence, to me, is worse then a billion hells. I believe in a Paradise. As to what it is actually like, that would only be speculation on my part because as you can guess, I am not dead.

But why do you believe? If you believe in something for the comfort of the belief I don't actually think you believe it but rather just hope it is true.

I disagree on the idea that Torment>Non-existence and I think you should too Eric because we have both been non-existent for the vast majority of the existence of the Universe and speaking personally, it never affected me and I would hazard a guess that it didn't bother you much either.

HardkorSB:

On another note, some people claim they saw Jesus specifically, while others saw Huhammad. What does that mean?

1) It was a brain malfunction
2) God (or whatever exists post death) has many faces and shows you the one you expect to ease your transition
3) There are multiple places you can end up depending on your beliefs
4) It could be a spot between life and death where your soul is held, and put in a "safe" feeling environment of what you expect, until your life returns or ends.

I think its probably #1 but it could easily be 2, 3, 4, or something else I haven't listed since its all guesses anyway.

HardkorSB:

feeqmatic:
Regardless of the scientific prowess of today, they have not been able to quantify what a spirit or soul is other than denying its existence.

I would say "accepting its non-existence" is closer to the truth.

And the whole truth is that we have yet to observe souls. :D

coolicus:

But why do you believe? If you believe in something for the comfort of the belief I don't actually think you believe it but rather just hope it is true.

I believe because I saw a god.

coolicus:

I disagree on the idea that Torment>Non-existence and I think you should too Eric because we have both been non-existent for the vast majority of the existence of the Universe and speaking personally, it never affected me and I would hazard a guess that it didn't bother you much either.

Actually, I'm Otherkin, and believe myself to have a past life. Aside from that, though, making the argument that "we never existed before, why should it be a problem?" doesn't make sense to me. No joy. No love. Never seeing your loved ones again, never playing any games, never smelling a flower or reading under the rain.

Nothing. Death in the absolute truest sense. I would never have another thought. I'd rather be frozen as a statue for the rest of my life. At least then I could observe and think. If I was suddenly struck deaf, mute, and blind, at least I would have my thoughts.

Istvan:

HardkorSB:

feeqmatic:
Regardless of the scientific prowess of today, they have not been able to quantify what a spirit or soul is other than denying its existence.

I would say "accepting its non-existence" is closer to the truth.

And the whole truth is that we have yet to observe souls. :D

Just like we have yet so observe the lizard people that supposedly rule over us from the shadows :)

Jonluw:
We die.
Making other claims is scientifically dishonest.
No proof has been provided to indicate that anything happens beside us ceasing to exist though, so I'll stick with the null hypothesis until someone's managed to disprove it, thank you very much.

Personally, I don't find the concept of oblivion distressing in the least. What scares me is the idea of an eternal existence. It sounds horrible. I don't wish to think and emote for the rest of infinity.

If I were to guess/imagine what happens to my mind, the entity I consider "me", though: The body which carries "me" will collapse and no longer be able to sustain "me". "Me" will still exist, but it will not be active. All the individual parts of "me" will exist, but they will not be able to interact in such a way as to form the abstract concept of "me".
Think of it like this: If you pick apart the atoms of a carrot, you still have all that makes up a carrot, but you can't in truth say you have "one" carrot. You have the makings of a carrot, sure, but it isn't "one".
Over time, "me" will decompose into smaller components which will spread through the earth, once again uniting "me" with its heritage. "Me" will travel through the earth, and some parts of "me" may once again become parts of other "me"s - or "they"s if you wish.
The earth will meet its end, and "me" will be spread across the universe. Eventually, all "me"'s motion will end with the heat death of the universe (presuming that theory is correct).

Actually you may just go into many separate ways. Energy which holds mass together never dies. In fact dependent upon the weak force or strong force(which is ironic that both have to be in perfect unison for our universe to exist)mass exists, life exist, the universe exists. Even at the sub atomic level energy doesnt die, it travels away. So using just physics alone it is quite viable that what we envision as death is no more than a mundane and primative view of what it really is.

If you need a better understanding of what im talking about ill let this guy explain it! http://www.ted.com/talks/garrett_lisi_on_his_theory_of_everything.html
He is one of the top quantum physicists in the world. Enjoy!

Besides, he loves and studies patterns just as much as I do!

HardkorSB:
stuff

Don't bother. He's said explicitly that he's not interested in talking about it. He doesn't care about the truth, just his own version of it.

xpowderx:
Actually you may just go into many separate ways. Energy which holds mass together never dies. In fact dependent upon the weak force or strong force(which is ironic that both have to be in perfect unison for our universe to exist)mass exists, life exist, the universe exists. Even at the sub atomic level energy doesnt die, it travels away. So using just physics alone it is quite viable that what we envision as death is no more than a mundane and primative view of what it really is.

If you need a better understanding of what im talking about ill let this guy explain it! http://www.ted.com/talks/garrett_lisi_on_his_theory_of_everything.html
He is one of the top quantum physicists in the world. Enjoy!

Before I respond to this... Are you actually interested in debate, or just spewing your own opinion?

Stagnant:

xpowderx:
Actually you may just go into many separate ways. Energy which holds mass together never dies. In fact dependent upon the weak force or strong force(which is ironic that both have to be in perfect unison for our universe to exist)mass exists, life exist, the universe exists. Even at the sub atomic level energy doesnt die, it travels away. So using just physics alone it is quite viable that what we envision as death is no more than a mundane and primative view of what it really is.

If you need a better understanding of what im talking about ill let this guy explain it! http://www.ted.com/talks/garrett_lisi_on_his_theory_of_everything.html
He is one of the top quantum physicists in the world. Enjoy!

Before I respond to this... Are you actually interested in debate, or just spewing your own opinion?

Actually Stagnant, no spewing here. I am very good with quantum mechanics as it is truly a hobby of mine. I have had debates here before. It is a subject I am well versed on. If you like to discuss anything with QFoQR feel free. I also enjoy Binary and Genetics. I have shut down the debate with parts of evolution here before. I dont mind shutting it down again. As some here already know. It is one subject unless you are well versed "do not " want to discuss with me.

Katatori-kun:

Godavari:
What we can definitively say about death is that you cease having experiences entirely.

While I am not personally opposed to your belief, you have overstated your claim. We cannot definitely say that you cease having experiences entirely. All we can say is that we have observed no evidence that suggests a person might experience anything after death.

If we're being totally intellectually honest and including the possibility of your consciousness being trapped in a non-material and invisible brain and floating away to another body in another universe (because that's the implication of afterlife claims), you're absolutely correct. Forgive me for equating 99.999% certainty with absolute certainty.

Katatori-kun:

There isn't a shred of evidence to back up the claims of souls or spirits or afterlives, so I don't believe in them. It's that simple.

Don't confuse an absence of evidence with evidence of absence.

For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing, especially so when the claim we're examining has been put forward for centuries and never produced a single piece of remotely-viable evidence to indicate that it's true. I think that's quite enough to dismiss it. When proponents of the religious explanation actually come forward and give us something tangible to examine, I'll consider it. Until then, there's no reason to even entertain such a fantastic idea.

A theist thread on the Escapist turning into a one sided bashfest? Whoda thunk it?

When I die I'll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Or more likely I'll just cease to exist. What an unpleasant thought, but that's it. Not much more to say about it, it's just the end of the line.

xpowderx:
Actually Stagnant, no spewing here.

I ask the question mainly due to this:

You can debate this among yourselves. I wont be a part of it. Like I said , for me its not a argument!

I didn't want to spend a lot of time arguing about that kind of thing if you were going to ignore it.

I am very good with quantum mechanics as it is truly a hobby of mine. I have had debates here before. It is a subject I am well versed on. If you like to discuss anything with QFoQR feel free. I also enjoy Binary and Genetics.

Interesting.

I have shut down the debate with parts of evolution here before. I dont mind shutting it down again.

Extremely questionable.

As some here already know. It is one subject unless you are well versed "do not " want to discuss with me.

Well, it's getting kinda late here, so don't expect my answer tonight. I'll look into that video tomorrow at some point if I can find time.

Thomas Guy:
A theist thread on the Escapist turning into a one sided bashfest? Whoda thunk it?

Well, what do you expect? This is a forum full of skeptics, and when an idea is brought forward based primarily on blind speculation and not even a shred of really viable evidence, what do you think skeptics are going to do with it?

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