EU "racist" advert gets taken down from youtube

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Volf:

dyre:
[
But you said it was respectable, while saying China is not :|
I'd say recently the US has done more evil than China has, and it has definitely done more evil than Afghanistan!

I'll be honest, I have a bias against the CCP because of how they are treating the Tibetan people right now.

I suppose we all have our biases, but surely you can see that China's aggressive foreign policy isn't much different from the US' aggressive foreign policy, except that China only has the capacity to be a regional bully, while the US can and does do it worldwide. The media here loves to concentrate on China's transgressions (and Chinese media does the same with Western transgressions, at least during my time spent there), but in the end, both governments do awful things all the time, and are equally unworthy of respect. I really have no idea why you singled out Afghanistan in the first place, which has very few transgressions to its name.

The Gentleman:
Pointless white knighting

A failing entitlement system, weakened rule of law, increasing division between groups, increasing use of identity politics, these are real problems. But you would ignore them, because any attempt to address them is automatically racist.

dyre:

Volf:

dyre:
[
But you said it was respectable, while saying China is not :|
I'd say recently the US has done more evil than China has, and it has definitely done more evil than Afghanistan!

I'll be honest, I have a bias against the CCP because of how they are treating the Tibetan people right now.

I suppose we all have our biases, but surely you can see that China's aggressive foreign policy isn't much different from the US' aggressive foreign policy, except that China only has the capacity to be a regional bully, while the US can and does do it worldwide. The media here loves to concentrate on China's transgressions (and Chinese media does the same with Western transgressions, at least during my time spent there), but in the end, both governments do awful things all the time, and are equally unworthy of respect. I really have no idea why you singled out Afghanistan in the first place, which has very few transgressions to its name.

Afghanistan is the first thing that came to mind, no other reason really.

As for china, yes both the US and the CCP do bad things. However I wish the CCP would not make the same mistake with the Tibetan people that the US made with Native Americans.

Stupidly racist. Rather than the malicious sort of racism. They didn't bother to give a crap of their colonialist history that has/had fucked over other countries while dehumanizing the inhabitants.

Volf:

dyre:

Volf:
I'll be honest, I have a bias against the CCP because of how they are treating the Tibetan people right now.

I suppose we all have our biases, but surely you can see that China's aggressive foreign policy isn't much different from the US' aggressive foreign policy, except that China only has the capacity to be a regional bully, while the US can and does do it worldwide. The media here loves to concentrate on China's transgressions (and Chinese media does the same with Western transgressions, at least during my time spent there), but in the end, both governments do awful things all the time, and are equally unworthy of respect. I really have no idea why you singled out Afghanistan in the first place, which has very few transgressions to its name.

Afghanistan is the first thing that came to mind, no other reason really.

As for china, yes both the US and the CCP do bad things. However I wish the CCP would not make the same mistake with the Tibetan people that the US made with Native Americans.

Well, the CCP isn't really interested in exterminating the Tibetans, so it probably won't be that bad. The CCP takes the cake in terms of screwing its own people, but the US easily wins in terms of screwing other people. I don't really see how you can call one respectable and not the other, though I suppose a respect for (present day) Western Europe makes more sense.

And I don't think the US really regrets that "mistake," besides the unfortunate deaths of some natives. Americans needed and continues to need that land, right? It's not like they're planning to give it back or something.

dyre:

Well, the CCP isn't really interested in exterminating the Tibetans, so it probably won't be that bad. The CCP takes the cake in terms of screwing its own people,

No they just feel that its ok to commit a cultural genocide by harassing monks and nuns, teaching mandarin in schools instead of Tibetan, kidnapping the next Dali Lama and refusing to tell anybody where he is, and trying to change the demographics so that there are more Han than Tibetan natives.

dyre:
but the US easily wins in terms of screwing other people. I don't really see how you can call one respectable and not the other, though I suppose a respect for (present day) Western Europe makes more sense.

Last I checked SOPA failed, while the great Chinese fire wall still exist. Heck just look at the whole issue between Google and the CCP. Try looking up what happened back in '89 and see what that gets you. The US however allows places like wikipedia to have articles on the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment.

The part that really ticks me off is that it seems a great amount of Chinese people seem to hold a grudge against Japan because of WW2, and yet the CCP is treating the Tibetan people the same way that Japan treated Korea. Hypocritical much?

harmonic:

The Gentleman:
Pointless white knighting

A failing entitlement system, weakened rule of law, increasing division between groups, increasing use of identity politics, these are real problems. But you would ignore them, because any attempt to address them is automatically racist.

Using this to combat racism is like using a gay stereotype to combat homophobia: Your target audience has their false impressions reinforced and those in the group depicted are further stereotyped and marginalized.

Yes, there's serious problems with all of those things, but this is not the way to deal with it. I used the term "racist" because no other term carries the necessary weight to explain that this kind of shit is not an acceptable way to address it and potentially serves to make it worse. Europe's problems with race and ethnicity are not deeply buried, and those of us that have seen and studied propaganda know its never the overt messaging that's the problem, but the subtle messaging and dog whistling that plays to an unconscious racial anxiety that is often masked as "I never said that, that's what you got out of it."

Volf:

dyre:

Well, the CCP isn't really interested in exterminating the Tibetans, so it probably won't be that bad. The CCP takes the cake in terms of screwing its own people,

No they just feel that its ok to commit a cultural genocide by harassing monks and nuns, teaching mandarin in schools instead of Tibetan, kidnapping the next Dali Lama and refusing to tell anybody where he is, and trying to change the demographics so that there are more Han than Tibetan natives.

dyre:
but the US easily wins in terms of screwing other people. I don't really see how you can call one respectable and not the other, though I suppose a respect for (present day) Western Europe makes more sense.

Last I checked SOPA failed, while the great Chinese fire wall still exist. Heck just look at the whole issue between Google and the CCP. Try looking up what happened back in '89 and see what that gets you. The US however allows places like wikipedia to have articles on the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment.

The part that really ticks me off is that it seems a great amount of Chinese people seem to hold a grudge against Japan because of WW2, and yet the CCP is treating the Tibetan people the same way that Japan treated Korea. Hypocritical much?

Meanwhile, the US has deposed democratic regimes (Iran, Guatemala, Chile) in favor of pro-US dictatorships, invaded nations resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and supported anti-human rights leaders because they give us oil. Yes, the US has a better record in terms of freedoms granted to its own people; no one questions that. But they've done so much worse to other nations, and they don't really teach any of it in high school. Freedom of information is nice, but how many Americans actually know about the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment? It doesn't help to have information available if no one bothers reading it.

China's upset at the actual (not cultural) mass murders and rapes committed by Japanese forces in China. The Japanese raped thousands of women and killed 300,000 civilians and POWs in Nanjing, and the right-wing elements of Japan still visit the shrines of the war criminals responsible, while school textbooks play down the massacre to a few accidental deaths. You don't think that's something to be upset about?

dyre:

Volf:

dyre:

Well, the CCP isn't really interested in exterminating the Tibetans, so it probably won't be that bad. The CCP takes the cake in terms of screwing its own people,

No they just feel that its ok to commit a cultural genocide by harassing monks and nuns, teaching mandarin in schools instead of Tibetan, kidnapping the next Dali Lama and refusing to tell anybody where he is, and trying to change the demographics so that there are more Han than Tibetan natives.

dyre:
but the US easily wins in terms of screwing other people. I don't really see how you can call one respectable and not the other, though I suppose a respect for (present day) Western Europe makes more sense.

Last I checked SOPA failed, while the great Chinese fire wall still exist. Heck just look at the whole issue between Google and the CCP. Try looking up what happened back in '89 and see what that gets you. The US however allows places like wikipedia to have articles on the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment.

The part that really ticks me off is that it seems a great amount of Chinese people seem to hold a grudge against Japan because of WW2, and yet the CCP is treating the Tibetan people the same way that Japan treated Korea. Hypocritical much?

Meanwhile, the US has deposed democratic regimes (Iran, Guatemala, Chile) in favor of pro-US dictatorships, invaded nations resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and supported anti-human rights leaders because they give us oil. Yes, the US has a better record in terms of freedoms granted to its own people; no one questions that. But they've done so much worse to other nations, and they don't really teach any of it in high school. Freedom of information is nice, but how many Americans actually know about the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment? It doesn't help to have information available if no one bothers reading it.

China's upset at the actual (not cultural) mass murders and rapes committed by Japanese forces in China. The Japanese raped thousands of women and killed 300,000 civilians and POWs in Nanjing, and the right-wing elements of Japan still visit the shrines of the war criminals responsible, while school textbooks play down the massacre to a few accidental deaths. You don't think that's something to be upset about?

Again the US is not saint, I just think it's better than the CCP.

As for the WW2 comment, exactly! Japan did terrible things, and China knows that better than most countries, and yet they act like the Japanese in the way they treat the Tibetan people.

The Gentleman:

Using this to combat racism is like using a gay stereotype to combat homophobia: Your target audience has their false impressions reinforced and those in the group depicted are further stereotyped and marginalized.

Yes, there's serious problems with all of those things, but this is not the way to deal with it. I used the term "racist" because no other term carries the necessary weight to explain that this kind of shit is not an acceptable way to address it and potentially serves to make it worse. Europe's problems with race and ethnicity are not deeply buried, and those of us that have seen and studied propaganda know its never the overt messaging that's the problem, but the subtle messaging and dog whistling that plays to an unconscious racial anxiety that is often masked as "I never said that, that's what you got out of it."

The problem with what you're saying is that no one actually proposed explicitly using racism to combat racism. Not everyone even agreed that this video was racist in the first place. I certainly didn't.

Someday, more and more people will see that extreme white knighting is its own form of racism and segregation. Then, perhaps, the human race can heal from the wounds caused by deliberate demographic division.

harmonic:

The Gentleman:

Using this to combat racism is like using a gay stereotype to combat homophobia: Your target audience has their false impressions reinforced and those in the group depicted are further stereotyped and marginalized.

Yes, there's serious problems with all of those things, but this is not the way to deal with it. I used the term "racist" because no other term carries the necessary weight to explain that this kind of shit is not an acceptable way to address it and potentially serves to make it worse. Europe's problems with race and ethnicity are not deeply buried, and those of us that have seen and studied propaganda know its never the overt messaging that's the problem, but the subtle messaging and dog whistling that plays to an unconscious racial anxiety that is often masked as "I never said that, that's what you got out of it."

The problem with what you're saying is that no one actually proposed explicitly using racism to combat racism. Not everyone even agreed that this video was racist in the first place. I certainly didn't.

Someday, more and more people will see that extreme white knighting is its own form of racism and segregation. Then, perhaps, the human race can heal from the wounds caused by deliberate demographic division.

Sorry to butt in, but he's right about race propaganda traditionally using male stereotypes of the "enemy" race preying on defenseless females. You often see that sort of thing in late 1800s / early 1900s propaganda related to the Spanish-American war and the subsequent occupations of Cuba and the Philippines. I'm not saying the EU did it on purpose, but if The Gentleman has studied propaganda, it's not surprising that he made the connection.

Volf:
Again the US is not saint, I just think it's better than the CCP.

As for the WW2 comment, exactly! Japan did terrible things, and China knows that better than most countries, and yet they act like the Japanese in the way they treat the Tibetan people.

I've just shown you that the US has done just as much evil as the CCP has! This is mostly because the US has a lot more power and resources to do this, but in terms of net evil, they're both skyrocketing up there.

And what China is doing to Tibet is NOTHING like what the Japanese did to China. I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous. It's like when people say "the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews," and I think "No, they fucking aren't. They're being way overzealous in their attempts to secure Israel, and they're pushing into Palestinian territory, but they're nothing close to the Nazis." What China is doing to Tibet is awful, but it's not even close to the awful that the Japanese did to China, and the comparison is insulting.

edit: fixed error in typing. Meant "what the Japanese did to China," not "to Tibet."
edit2: we're offtopic, so if you want to keep talking about this, shoot me a PM

dyre:
snip

no no no. I'm not saying that the CCP is treating the Tibetans like how the Japanese treated China. I'm saying that if you look at how Japan treated KOREA in the beginning of the 20th century, its like how the CCP is currently treating Tibet.

Look up the history of Korea at the beginning of the 20th century to see what I'm referring to.

Volf:

dyre:
snip

no no no. I'm not saying that the CCP is treating the Tibetans like how the Japanese treated China. I'm saying that if you look at how Japan treated KOREA in the beginning of the 20th century, its like how the CCP is currently treating Tibet.

Look up the history of Korea at the beginning of the 20th century to see what I'm referring to.

Tbh, I don't think China really cares about how the Japanese treated Korea...they were too busy getting mass murdered to care about cultural murder...

In any case, I'm not sure why how the Japanese treated Korea is relevant. I mean, it's like saying "those guys are acting like the Nazis did towards Sweden." It's misleading, because the Nazis basically allowed Sweden to stay independent in return for helping the Nazi war effort. When people mention the Nazis, they mean the Nazis at their worst (concentration camps, that sort of thing). Japan was not at its worst in Korea; it was at its worst in China.

dyre:

Tbh, I don't think China really cares about how the Japanese treated Korea...they were too busy getting mass murdered to care about cultural murder...

True but they care enough to still hate Japan for the past, and the irony is that China is acting like the very people they seem to despise.

dyre:
In any case, I'm not sure why how the Japanese treated Korea is relevant. I mean, it's like saying "those guys are acting like the Nazis did towards Sweden." It's misleading, because the Nazis basically allowed Sweden to stay independent in return for helping the Nazi war effort. When people mention the Nazis, they mean the Nazis at their worst (concentration camps, that sort of thing).

If you look at how Japan treated Korea, it resembles how China is currently treating Tibet. So it seems hypocritical for China to hate Japan, when the Chinese are acting like 20th century Japan.

For example Japan wanted Korea to get rid of its language and for people to only speak Japanese. The CCP is currently teaching mandarin as the primary language in Tibet, so the region is at risk of loosing its language.

dyre:
Japan was not at its worst in Korea; it was at its worst in China.

Go look up the history of Korea before you make that claim.

Here is a blog that goes into detail about the actions of Japan to Korean people.

Volf:

dyre:

Tbh, I don't think China really cares about how the Japanese treated Korea...they were too busy getting mass murdered to care about cultural murder...

True but they care enough to still hate Japan for the past, and the irony is that China is acting like the very people they seem to despise.

dyre:
In any case, I'm not sure why how the Japanese treated Korea is relevant. I mean, it's like saying "those guys are acting like the Nazis did towards Sweden." It's misleading, because the Nazis basically allowed Sweden to stay independent in return for helping the Nazi war effort. When people mention the Nazis, they mean the Nazis at their worst (concentration camps, that sort of thing).

If you look at how Japan treated Korea, it resembles how China is currently treating Tibet. So it seems hypocritical for China to hate Japan, when the Chinese are acting like 20th century Japan.

For example Japan wanted Korea to get rid of its language and for people to only speak Japanese. The CCP is currently teaching mandarin as the primary language in Tibet, so the region is at risk of loosing its language.

dyre:
Japan was not at its worst in Korea; it was at its worst in China.

Go look up the history of Korea before you make that claim.

Here is a blog that goes into detail about the actions of Japan to Korean people.

You're confusing the meaning of hypocrisy. China isn't saying "we hate everything Japan ever did" or "we hate what Japan did to Korea;" they're saying "we hate what Japan did to us." Calling China hypocritical for treating Tibet the way Japan treated Korea doesn't make sense, because China isn't calling Japan out for its actions in Korea.

It's like, let's say two people commit a lesser crime (cultural genocide), which in the metaphor we'll use thievery, and one of those people commits a much bigger crime (actual genocide), for which we'll use murder. If the thief calls out the murderer for being a murderer, it doesn't make sense to point out they're both thieves. It's a moot point if one guy also committed MURDER. If the thief calls out the murderer for being a thief, then yeah, he's a hypocrite, but that's not what's happening here.

As for Korea under Japanese rule, I read a book on it a long time ago. The Japanese basically used Koreans as slave labor, right? That's pretty terrible, but I'd rather be a slave than be raped and killed...

Thanks for the blog link btw. I didn't know that Japanese politicians also deny what their ancestors did in Korea, not just China. I can't say I'm surprised though.

You might also be interested to know that the US signed an agreement with Japan in which we agreed that if Japan didn't bother us about our brutal occupation of the Philippines, we wouldn't bother them about their brutal occupation of Korea. Forgot the name of the treaty, but I think it was under Teddy Roosevelt.

Anyways, my point a few posts back was that the US government is nearly as bad, possibly just as bad as the Chinese government. I know you love to hate China, and the CCP certainly deserves all the hate it gets, but you should also look in the mirror and see that the US government has done a lot more bad than just invade Iraq. If you think Afghanistan and China aren't respectable, there's just no way you can call the US respectable. I'll concede that Western Europe is alright though.

I don't get it :/

The message seems to be more "look how proud these different cultures are of their heritage. That could be seen as antagonistic. But no, we'll all get along fine.". Not racist.

I don't really see the point of the video, as in what it's supposed to demonstrate (surely the first step to easing racial tensions is to stop fucking talking about them, no?). But it's not racist. Pointing out a heritage or representing a culture by such a heritage is not racist or stereotyping. It's not racist to associate the Chinese with Kung Fu; that's part of their history and culture.

Captcha: "beats me" ^^

dyre:

I've just shown you that the US has done just as much evil as the CCP has! This is mostly because the US has a lot more power and resources to do this, but in terms of net evil, they're both skyrocketing up there.

Since your profile lacks a country of origin, I'm taking a guess here. From the content of your posts, and the fact that this is the Escapist, I'm guessing you are either Aussie or British. If I'm wrong, so sorry, I'm simply guessing, and it's a pretty educated guess.

The "US is evil" mantra is quite bland, and hardly ever supported by those who spout it off ubiquitously. Let me guess. CIA espionage? The 2003 invasion of Iraq? I think America's accomplishments far outweigh its evils. First free, democratic nation in the new world. Arguably the longest running contiguous democracy in the world. Pioneered the idea of the rule of law, rather than the rule of God or Monarch. Evolved its long political inheritance to new levels with the Constitution. Sacrificed half a million lives fighting a civil war to end the slavery that the British Empire started. Provided the force necessary to end WW1. Played a vital role in defeating evil empires in WW2. Invented countless new medicines, feats of engineering, telecommunication, not to mention the Internet. First to land on the moon. First to bring into commonplace the superhighway. Created a system of free enterprise that built the world's largest economy. Yeah, I'll be here all night but I'll stop there.

Need I remind you of the behavior of the last country to claim the title of superpower before the US took it over? It seems to me that the US has been a far better steward of the superpower title than the British Empire was... by many orders of magnitude. Inept governance of its colonies, rape-like behavior of its African and middle eastern imperial holdings, incompetent stewardship of its victory in WWI, Neville Chamberlain, made the slave trade popular, etc. That said, I don't fault the British for being "evil." Those were the circumstances at the time, and civilization evolved.

harmonic:

dyre:

I've just shown you that the US has done just as much evil as the CCP has! This is mostly because the US has a lot more power and resources to do this, but in terms of net evil, they're both skyrocketing up there.

Since your profile lacks a country of origin, I'm taking a guess here. From the content of your posts, and the fact that this is the Escapist, I'm guessing you are either Aussie or British. If I'm wrong, so sorry, I'm simply guessing, and it's a pretty educated guess.

The "US is evil" mantra is quite bland, and hardly ever supported by those who spout it off ubiquitously. Let me guess. CIA espionage? The 2003 invasion of Iraq? I think America's accomplishments far outweigh its evils. First free, democratic nation in the new world. Arguably the longest running contiguous democracy in the world. Pioneered the idea of the rule of law, rather than the rule of God or Monarch. Evolved its long political inheritance to new levels with the Constitution. Sacrificed half a million lives fighting a civil war to end the slavery that the British Empire started. Provided the force necessary to end WW1. Played a vital role in defeating evil empires in WW2. Invented countless new medicines, feats of engineering, telecommunication, not to mention the Internet. First to land on the moon. First to bring into commonplace the superhighway. Created a system of free enterprise that built the world's largest economy. Yeah, I'll be here all night but I'll stop there.

Need I remind you of the behavior of the last country to claim the title of superpower before the US took it over? It seems to me that the US has been a far better steward of the superpower title than the British Empire was... by many orders of magnitude. Inept governance of its colonies, rape-like behavior of its African and middle eastern imperial holdings, incompetent stewardship of its victory in WWI, Neville Chamberlain, made the slave trade popular, etc. That said, I don't fault the British for being "evil." Those were the circumstances at the time, and civilization evolved.

American, actually.

First free, democratic nation...Democracy traces its roots to ancient Greece, and I'm not sure what you mean by "free." Not free for the slaves, surely. US was a big step, but it hardly invented democracy or freedom.

Longest running democracy? Yeah, I'll give you that. Unless there's some other nation I'm not aware of.

Pioneered rule of law...not really. It built on existing philosophies. You'll actually see rule of law in the old Ottoman Empire. Sharia law, but law nonetheless.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that comment about the Constitution.

Sacrificed 1/2 million + lives in Civil War to end slavery that the British empire started... Err yeah, I hope you're not implying we fought the war to free the slaves, though that was fortunately a positive outcome of the war. The Brits abolished slavery long before we did anyway.

Provided the force necessary to end WW1...while utterly failing to secure a lasting and just peace to prevent future wars! We beat the Europeans in morality in this one, but we dropped the ball where we really could have done a lot of good.

Played a vital role in winning WW2...yeah, alongside the Soviet Union and the KMT, two really awful regimes.

Technological stuff...yeah, US innovation ftw. But that's not exactly a moral accomplishment.

Despite most of your claims about the US' accomplishments being somewhat dubious or at least arguable, I do believe that the US is probably the most benevolent superpower that ever existed, but really, that's not very benevolent. Superpowers generally aren't. If you think the Brits were bad, check out the French and the Belgians. Not sure why you put Chamberlain up there though. He was a buffoon, but I don't think public opinion would have let him do anything different.

As for the US' misdeeds, I don't see how CIA espionage can be considered anything but evil, especially when it replaces leaders like Guzman and Mossadegh with tyrants like Castillo and Reza Shah (though the Shah at least beats the current leadership Iran has). US Invasion of Iraq? Yeah, that's pretty bad. US occupation of Cuba, of the Philippines, its coup in Panama, its forays into Mexico, and its actions in Vietnam? That's a lot of bad. Hell, we could even put Manifest Destiny and the natives in there, though imo that's overused.

Point is though, US isn't more or less evil than other countries. It's evil like everyone else, partially subdued by its pretty good system of government, but magnified by its military and economic power. Definitely the preferable superpower over the Soviet Union or modern day China, but that's not saying too much. The original argument is that calling the US and Western Europe the most respectable countries on Earth, while demonizing China, is a little hypocritical. I stand by that argument.

Going to sleep now, but I'll get back to you (assuming you reply, anyway) tomorrow.

Volf:
I don't see India getting it's shit together any time soon

If i remember rightly it's got a unusually low trade surplus for a developing country- it's GDP growth rate is not far off China's though and a large portion of it's population are still poor. If the world can get those millions of Indians out of poverty then your going to have one huge market to trade with.

WoW Killer:
I don't get it :/

The message seems to be more "look how proud these different cultures are of their heritage. That could be seen as antagonistic. But no, we'll all get along fine.". Not racist.

I don't really see the point of the video, as in what it's supposed to demonstrate (surely the first step to easing racial tensions is to stop fucking talking about them, no?). But it's not racist. Pointing out a heritage or representing a culture by such a heritage is not racist or stereotyping. It's not racist to associate the Chinese with Kung Fu; that's part of their history and culture.

Captcha: "beats me" ^^

Go and read TheGentleman's post, he explains it better than i do. It's racist because essentially you have a white woman being attacked by ethnic minorities, and this symbolism can be rather damaging.

And no it's not racist to associate China with kung-fu- but it can be a bit... belittling to portray their culture purely in terms of martial arts. I think many Chinese people would be a bit irked if you said they were all into kung fu- it's like a Chinese person saying all Americans are cowboys, or all Brit's are tea sipping crooked teeth gentlemen. I don't think it's racist- but it is mildly offensive it would make you seem ignorant to perpetuate such stereotypes.

Nickolai77:

Volf:
I don't see India getting it's shit together any time soon

If i remember rightly it's got a unusually low trade surplus for a developing country- it's GDP growth rate is not far off China's though and a large portion of it's population are still poor. If the world can get those millions of Indians out of poverty then your going to have one huge market to trade with.

WoW Killer:
I don't get it :/

The message seems to be more "look how proud these different cultures are of their heritage. That could be seen as antagonistic. But no, we'll all get along fine.". Not racist.

I don't really see the point of the video, as in what it's supposed to demonstrate (surely the first step to easing racial tensions is to stop fucking talking about them, no?). But it's not racist. Pointing out a heritage or representing a culture by such a heritage is not racist or stereotyping. It's not racist to associate the Chinese with Kung Fu; that's part of their history and culture.

Captcha: "beats me" ^^

Go and read TheGentleman's post, he explains it better than i do. It's racist because essentially you have a white woman being attacked by ethnic minorities, and this symbolism can be rather damaging.

And no it's not racist to associate China with kung-fu- but it can be a bit... belittling to portray their culture purely in terms of martial arts. I think many Chinese people would be a bit irked if you said they were all into kung fu- it's like a Chinese person saying all Americans are cowboys, or all Brit's are tea sipping crooked teeth gentlemen. I don't think it's racist- but it is mildly offensive it would make you seem ignorant to perpetuate such stereotypes.

True, but thats only if they get themselves as organized as China

Nickolai77:
Go and read TheGentleman's post, he explains it better than i do. It's racist because essentially you have a white woman being attacked by ethnic minorities, and this symbolism can be rather damaging.

And no it's not racist to associate China with kung-fu- but it can be a bit... belittling to portray their culture purely in terms of martial arts. I think many Chinese people would be a bit irked if you said they were all into kung fu- it's like a Chinese person saying all Americans are cowboys, or all Brit's are tea sipping crooked teeth gentlemen. I don't think it's racist- but it is mildly offensive it would make you seem ignorant to perpetuate such stereotypes.

The way I interpretted it is a play on martial arts being both fighting styles (potentially antagonistic) and parts of culture (harmless). It portrays the ethnic groups first in this potentially antagonistic way, and then resolves by saying it's just harmless culture. The message thus seems to be "it might look dangerous, but it's just different cultures". That's what I presume the intent was anyway.

I can't argue against it being poorly portrayed and a risky way to put across an essentially pointless message however. I don't imagine a racist or xenophobe would change their views due to a video campaign, even if it was a well crafted one, and I can't help but feel the more you bang on about ethnic differences the more they'll matter to people distrustful of them.

I couldn't believe this video was real so I googled a bit and found this, haven't seen this posted yet;

We have received a lot of feedback on our latest video clip, including from people concerned about the message it was sending.

It was a viral clip targeting, through social networks and new media, a young audience (16-24) who understand the plots and themes of martial arts films and video games. The reactions of these target audiences to the clip have in fact been positive, as had those of the focus groups on whom the concept had been tested.

The clip featured typical characters for the martial arts genre: kung fu, capoeira and kalaripayattu masters; it started with demonstration of their skills and ended with all characters showing their mutual respect, concluding in a position of peace and harmony. The genre was chosen to attract young people and to raise their curiosity on an important EU policy.

The clip was absolutely not intended to be racist and we obviously regret that it has been perceived in this way. We apologise to anyone who may have felt offended. Given these controversies, we have decided to stop the campaign immediately and to withdraw the video.

Stefano Sannino, Director General of DG Enlargement

http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/press_corner/whatsnew/news/120306_en.htm

Ways the video could have been less racist and more realistic;
-the lone women should have looked like this;
image
-the attackers should have been people of all races wearing black and grey suits. Some should have German accents, others have French accents. And they all want their money back!
image
-Greece shouldn't just multiply into 15 Greeces: stereotypes of all countries should come to rescue him. And all should bring piles of money!
image
image

Racism is gone, realism is back! :D Should I make the next European ads?

Danyal:
snip

They should put you in charge of the EU, man!

Volf:

Hazy992:

Oh, so that makes it right, does it? 'Other people are doing it so it's fine for me to as well.' No, they're in the wrong for doing that and so are you.

Your right I made a generalization.

Yeah, and that's fucked up. It's incorrect and you're being prejudice

Hazy992:

Volf:

Hazy992:

Oh, so that makes it right, does it? 'Other people are doing it so it's fine for me to as well.' No, they're in the wrong for doing that and so are you.

Your right I made a generalization.

Yeah, and that's fucked up. It's incorrect and you're being prejudice

yep, you caught me red handed

Volf:

Hazy992:

Volf:
Your right I made a generalization.

Yeah, and that's fucked up. It's incorrect and you're being prejudice

yep, you caught me red handed

Could you stop with the sarcasm please? I don't like patronised

Hazy992:

Volf:

Hazy992:

Yeah, and that's fucked up. It's incorrect and you're being prejudice

yep, you caught me red handed

Could you stop with the sarcasm please? I don't like patronised

.....

..look, I made a mistake and you pointed it out. How do you want me to explain that I was making a generalization? My last comment was serious, not sarcastic.

Volf:

Hazy992:

Volf:
yep, you caught me red handed

Could you stop with the sarcasm please? I don't like patronised

.....

..look, I made a mistake and you pointed it out. How do you want me to explain that I was making a generalization? My last comment was serious, not sarcastic.

Well I that's true I'm sorry I misread you. It just seemed sarcastic to me

Hazy992:

Volf:

Hazy992:

Could you stop with the sarcasm please? I don't like patronised

.....

..look, I made a mistake and you pointed it out. How do you want me to explain that I was making a generalization? My last comment was serious, not sarcastic.

Well I that's true I'm sorry I misread you. It just seemed sarcastic to me

No problem, I know it can be hard to tell on the internet, heck I've made the same mistake before.

The video is more bewildering than anything else. Thanks for posting the "director's commentary", Danyal, although to be honest that just raises more questions than it answers.

Basically; is the message of the video

1) Us Europeans have to stick together to make the darkies behave

or

2) Welcome to Europe!

Because personally I sense more of the former than the latter. It's clearly an homage to Kill Bill, but why use the metaphor of combat, which is only resolved through numerical superiority, if not to illustrate an "us versus them" situation?

It's baffling.

Is it racist or is it a subtle way of saying "if you screw with one women then you'll have to deal with all of them".

I don't understand the inclusion of the Brazilian, and yes, it was a Brazilian, he is doing Capoeira. Seriously, what does Brazil have that is threatening Europe and calls for them to join forces? Are they that mad at the football team?

Seriously though, who thought that video would be a good idea? A young white woman under attack by a bunch of minorities who are only put down when white folks group on them? Come on.

Eh, I really don't feel like a tit-for-tat. But here goes.

dyre:

First free, democratic nation...Democracy traces its roots to ancient Greece, and I'm not sure what you mean by "free." Not free for the slaves, surely. US was a big step, but it hardly invented democracy or freedom.

What I said was not up for debate. It was the first new world colony to become independent from Europe.

dyre:

Pioneered rule of law...not really. It built on existing philosophies. You'll actually see rule of law in the old Ottoman Empire. Sharia law, but law nonetheless.

No, I'm not talking about the concept of a law system. That goes back 4000+ years. I'm talking about the rule of law, as in, no one is above the law. When this country was born, the rest of the world swore fealty to a monarch or dictator.

dyre:

I'm not really sure what you mean by that comment about the Constitution.

"Political inheritance" is the development of a system of government and laws that are taken from generations past. People like to pretend that the American colonies appeared from thin air in the 1620's, whereas anyone who's intellectually honest has to acknowledge that they were Europeans, and thus their political inheritance, in respect to how it eventually became the constitution, can be traced back to the Magna Carta.

dyre:

Sacrificed 1/2 million + lives in Civil War to end slavery that the British empire started... Err yeah, I hope you're not implying we fought the war to free the slaves, though that was fortunately a positive outcome of the war. The Brits abolished slavery long before we did anyway.

Of course the war has multiple causes. You're not speaking to a historical slouch FYI. But half a million men did lose their lives, and slavery was abolished, those points cannot be argued. Also, the slave trade began under the British crown, long before we were the USA.

dyre:

Provided the force necessary to end WW1...while utterly failing to secure a lasting and just peace to prevent future wars! We beat the Europeans in morality in this one, but we dropped the ball where we really could have done a lot of good.

Played a vital role in winning WW2...yeah, alongside the Soviet Union and the KMT, two really awful regimes.

The failure to secure peace in future wars is blamed almost entirely on France and Britain. Surely you know of the Versailles treaty? Don't automatically blame everything on America just because it's America. President Wilson tried reasoning with the British and French governments, but they wanted revenge. Thus, the unfair terms of surrender that created the perfect circumstances for another war in the future.

As far as WW2, our alliances with USSR and China were necessary to win. Come on, you can't be arguing that we should have purposely made the war far more difficult for the Allies by refusing to work alongside them. The KMT ended up being out done in the evil department a million times over by the CCP, mind you.

dyre:

Despite most of your claims about the US' accomplishments being somewhat dubious or at least arguable, I do believe that the US is probably the most benevolent superpower that ever existed, but really, that's not very benevolent. Superpowers generally aren't. If you think the Brits were bad, check out the French and the Belgians. Not sure why you put Chamberlain up there though. He was a buffoon, but I don't think public opinion would have let him do anything different.

As for the US' misdeeds, I don't see how CIA espionage can be considered anything but evil, especially when it replaces leaders like Guzman and Mossadegh with tyrants like Castillo and Reza Shah (though the Shah at least beats the current leadership Iran has). US Invasion of Iraq? Yeah, that's pretty bad. US occupation of Cuba, of the Philippines, its coup in Panama, its forays into Mexico, and its actions in Vietnam? That's a lot of bad. Hell, we could even put Manifest Destiny and the natives in there, though imo that's overused.

You originally argued that the US was such a source of evil as to be compared to some of the worst in history. That was the entire point of my counter argument.

EClaris:

I knew someone would go there, of course that's exactly what Kill Bill is - a homage to MA/Grindhouse cinema - but you must be living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the advert was parodying an old, unfinished and fairly obscure Bruce Lee film that much of the ad's audience would not have seen. It references pop culture, the parody of the parody. Of course, the other alternative is that you're trying to win the internetz (judging by your use of "protip" and the overall tone, it's certainly likely), well fair enough but pedantry does not make for a solid argument.

maddawg IAJI:
I don't understand the inclusion of the Brazilian, and yes, it was a Brazilian, he is doing Capoeira. Seriously, what does Brazil have that is threatening Europe and calls for them to join forces? Are they that mad at the football team?

Seriously though, who thought that video would be a good idea? A young white woman under attack by a bunch of minorities who are only put down when white folks group on them? Come on.

I think people are reading too much into it.

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