What do you think happens after death?

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What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist, in either physical or spiritual/energy form, but do you think we just stop being, our energy goes on (like ghosts), or our energy goes somewhere else (as in heaven), or something entirely different.

I'm not sure about my beliefs on the matter.

All the stuff in this 11 days old thread happens.

Oh, and subsequently eternal torture of anyone who've ever believed in an Abrahamic religion. The bible random internet post is the light that illuminates this unquestionable truth.

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist, in either physical or spiritual/energy form, but do you think we just stop being, our energy goes on (like ghosts), or our energy goes somewhere else (as in heaven), or something entirely different.

I'm not sure about my beliefs on the matter.

Our energy is radiated as heat until our average kinetic energy matches that of our surroundings.

And in that way our energy becomes one with the universe/earth/whatever. /eyeroll

We wake up in the future and Like/Dislike the simulation we've been in?

image

Or...

The parable of the fire is mentioned: In it the Buddha, on being pressed to support one or another possibility for where the soul does or does not go after death, finally explains that this would be like asking whether the fire goes east or west when extinguished.

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist

No, it really is not.

Because there is a time period of ~14 billion years during which none of us existed. Were you in any way inconvenienced by it?

Once you die, you're dead. End of the line. Finito. Your body cools down, all metabolical processes cease, electricity no longer courses through your brain and nervous system. If your body is not cremated, slowly chemical and physical processes will break down the complex organic materials that can be categorized as 'your body'. Only thing remaining of you are the memories in the minds of those who knew you, and what you possibly achieved/build/constructed during your lifetime - until the people who knew you are dead also, and whatever you build slowly breaks down and erodes away. Eventually, nothing but the atoms that used to make up the matter of your body will remain, by now recycled through millions and millions of chemical processes and new molecules and new compounds.

Until, eventually, when the universe itself is approaching Heat Death, not even atoms remain.

SakSak:

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist

No, it really is not.

Because there is a time period of ~14 billion years during which none of us existed. Were you in any way inconvenienced by it?

Once you die, you're dead. End of the line. Finito. Your body cools down, all metabolical processes cease, electricity no longer courses through your brain and nervous system. If your body is not cremated, slowly chemical and physical processes will break down the complex organic materials that can be categorized as 'your body'. Only thing remaining of you are the memories in the minds of those who knew you, and what you possibly achieved/build/constructed during your lifetime - until the people who knew you are dead also, and whatever you build slowly breaks down and erodes away. Eventually, nothing but the atoms that used to make up the matter of your body will remain, by now recycled through millions and millions of chemical processes and new molecules and new compounds.

Until, eventually, when the universe itself is approaching Heat Death, not even atoms remain.

God, isn't the universe just wonderful and happy?

I'd like to believe in an afterlife, but yeah, my belief is that when you die, you're dead. Forever. Your thoughts stop, everything stops. It's like a nothing nothingness, if that makes sense.

Well personally, I got a clean slate after being a real douche the last few times around. This time I plan on putting aside some cash so next time around I have a good launch point.

Edit:
Oh yeah and I gotta figure out how to be born in the same geographic area some day... Having to go half way around the world to gather your shit is a bitch.

We cease existing. There's nothingness, but there's no consciousness to experience it with. I guess the most apt comparison I can make thanks to personal experience is having an alcohol-induced blackout and memory gap, except you never wake up to realize the existence of the gap.

Thing is, everything I'm aware of points to the mind, the soul, the person being the product of the brain. Be it memory, personality, emotions, sensory input, everything is tied to the brain and to realtively specific, albeit somewhat plastic areas of it, too. Damage the frontal lobes and suffer a signtificant personality change. Damage the hippocampus and temporal lobes and erase memory, depending on the damage both retro- and/or antegrad. Destroy parts of the parietal lobes and you lose feeling in your extremities. Occipital lobe for sight or calculation and integration thereof (some people can see, but what they see in part of their vision never reaches their consciousness because the integration is damaged). Change chemicals within the brain to produce manias, depressions, anxieties or reduce those effects in naturally occurring ailments. And so on.

I'd need a lot of evidence before I'd be convinced that the thing which we generally refer to as a soul (in the sense of feelings, emotions, empathy etc.) are anything other than an emergent function of the brain, because everything that people tend to attribute to the soul can much better be explained naturally. And without a soul in the supernaturalistic sense or something similar to survive death, there wouldn't be an afterlife, would there?

I believe that the energy that makes up life as we know it is transformed into our next life, that we will be forced to live with the world we make for better or for worse. From what I was taught, we WERE the bacteria, and animals that came before us, and we will be what comes after. The next life is what we make of it in the present, if we plan for the future generations, we will be more comfortable when we return. The way we were taught about time was not a linear path, but a circular path of repetition. we are born, live, die, remain in spirit world for a short time, and then the cycle starts over again.

A Billy Connolly quote is merited here...

"Where do you go after you die? The same place you were before you were born! Fucking nowhere!!!"

Unless there were some physical evidence and not just what some person said once I have to agree

Energy? There's a bunch of energy in my body and it'll simply disperse. It'd be like asking where the energy in my computer goes if I were to smash it.

Lil devils x:
I believe that the energy that makes up life as we know it is transformed into our next life, that we will be forced to live with the world we make for better or for worse. From what I was taught, we WERE the bacteria, and animals that came before us, and we will be what comes after. The next life is what we make of it in the present, if we plan for the future generations, we will be more comfortable when we return. The way we were taught about time was not a linear path, but a circular path of repetition. we are born, live, die, remain in spirit world for a short time, and then the cycle starts over again.

Interesting hypothesis. Do you have any evidence?

Whitbane:

SakSak:

Until, eventually, when the universe itself is approaching Heat Death, not even atoms remain.

God, isn't the universe just wonderful and happy?

I know!

It's, gosh I dunno, like the universe wasn't created for us.

Radical hypothesis for sure, but strangely fitting the circumstances of reality :D

I'm always baffled by people who say 'it can't be just this or that'. It's not like the process of dying is influened by one's opinion of it... If we die, we decompose. The part where our conciousness is seated also rots away along with the rest. That much is known.

Before that, the actual dying will likely involve some kind of your conciousness grinding to a halt as your brain shuts down due to whatever caused your death.

Why would there need to be anything after death?

Wouldn't an afterlife just render the concept of "life" pointless?

Although, considering my captcha is "sonic screw driver" I'd have to assume we regenerate into a new form.

The innumerable recorded and researched cases of past life experiences clearly point to life after death. In all the recorded cases of reincarnations, it was found that there was a variable time lag between the death of the person and his next reincarnation on Earth. So, where do we go after death till our reincarnation on Earth? Is it a single plane of existence or are there a variety of planes of existence? If so, what are the factors that decide where we go after death?

KlLLUMINATI:
The innumerable recorded and researched cases of past life experiences clearly point to life after death. In all the recorded cases of reincarnations, it was found that there was a variable time lag between the death of the person and his next reincarnation on Earth. So, where do we go after death till our reincarnation on Earth? Is it a single plane of existence or are there a variety of planes of existence? If so, what are the factors that decide where we go after death?

Actually, no, they don't, they point to the endless human capacity to delude itself, draw causation from correlation, and to leap from "something I personally can't explain has happened" to "if you fail to accept the Lord and Saviour JAYZOOS CAHRAIST you will burn for all eternity!".

Would you care to link to some of those "recorded cases", which I'm sure are published in a reputable peer-reviewed psychology and/or neurology journal, and not some batshit-whackadoodle-new-age-woomeister magazine/badly formatted website that looks like it traveled in time from the 90's?

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist, in either physical or spiritual/energy form, but do you think we just stop being, our energy goes on (like ghosts), or our energy goes somewhere else (as in heaven), or something entirely different.

I'm not sure about my beliefs on the matter.

This

Aside from that, the world goes on!

Magichead:

KlLLUMINATI:
The innumerable recorded and researched cases of past life experiences clearly point to life after death. In all the recorded cases of reincarnations, it was found that there was a variable time lag between the death of the person and his next reincarnation on Earth. So, where do we go after death till our reincarnation on Earth? Is it a single plane of existence or are there a variety of planes of existence? If so, what are the factors that decide where we go after death?

Actually, no, they don't, they point to the endless human capacity to delude itself, draw causation from correlation, and to leap from "something I personally can't explain has happened" to "if you fail to accept the Lord and Saviour JAYZOOS CAHRAIST you will burn for all eternity!".

Would you care to link to some of those "recorded cases", which I'm sure are published in a reputable peer-reviewed psychology and/or neurology journal, and not some batshit-whackadoodle-new-age-woomeister magazine/badly formatted website that looks like it traveled in time from the 90's?

While these kind of experiences do not provide scientific evidence for the reality of out of body existence, it does provide good circumstantial evidence especially if more than two people are involved.

http://iands.org/nde-stories/17-nde-accounts-from-beyond-the-light.html

If you do not beleive in an after life fine but do not act all greater than thou. Like you know something I do not.

Stagnant:

Lil devils x:
I believe that the energy that makes up life as we know it is transformed into our next life, that we will be forced to live with the world we make for better or for worse. From what I was taught, we WERE the bacteria, and animals that came before us, and we will be what comes after. The next life is what we make of it in the present, if we plan for the future generations, we will be more comfortable when we return. The way we were taught about time was not a linear path, but a circular path of repetition. we are born, live, die, remain in spirit world for a short time, and then the cycle starts over again.

Interesting hypothesis. Do you have any evidence?

DO I personally have any evidence? No. This is what I was taught from my grandfather, and he was taught from his grandfather before him. The tribes have kept a continuous history since what most consider "pre history". Though, we figure mankind is just now reaching a point where they may be able to understand more about the tribes and the history rather than scream "witch!" and burn them. Our people believe that we have already reached high level of technology in the past and walked away from it due to people using it for destructive purposes. This is why tribes around the world still refuse to use technology, because they promised they would not. They are not ignorant of it, they made an educated decision.

We were taught that this knowledge came from the previous world, or age that we destroyed by our actions. We were taught that life came from clay and water. That crystals hold the knowledge of life, and that is why they are considered sacred. That we are all connected in the universere, all a part of the whole universe. Many have difficulty understanding, as they refer to everything as a being, every planet, force in the universe is considered a "being". People automatically attempt to relate that as a god or deity, but I feel that does not accurately describe the beings we are discussing. Much is described by what its function is, that does not mean it is a God or deity, but simply what we consider a "being". We consider the earth a being as well.

The tribes have been teaching that the energy of the universe is never created or destroyed, only transformed, into the next "life." Just as civilizations Therodynamics. The First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another.

This is what we have been taught all along as the cycle of life, and view that science will one day catch up to what we already know.

KlLLUMINATI:

Magichead:

KlLLUMINATI:
The innumerable recorded and researched cases of past life experiences clearly point to life after death. In all the recorded cases of reincarnations, it was found that there was a variable time lag between the death of the person and his next reincarnation on Earth. So, where do we go after death till our reincarnation on Earth? Is it a single plane of existence or are there a variety of planes of existence? If so, what are the factors that decide where we go after death?

Actually, no, they don't, they point to the endless human capacity to delude itself, draw causation from correlation, and to leap from "something I personally can't explain has happened" to "if you fail to accept the Lord and Saviour JAYZOOS CAHRAIST you will burn for all eternity!".

Would you care to link to some of those "recorded cases", which I'm sure are published in a reputable peer-reviewed psychology and/or neurology journal, and not some batshit-whackadoodle-new-age-woomeister magazine/badly formatted website that looks like it traveled in time from the 90's?

While these kind of experiences do not provide scientific evidence for the reality of out of body existence, it does provide good circumstantial evidence especially if more than two people are involved.

http://iands.org/nde-stories/17-nde-accounts-from-beyond-the-light.html

Have you ever heard the saying; "the plural of anecdote is not data"? It applies here. Indeed, this is a textbook case.

I can find tens of thousands of "circumstantial" testimonials which emphatically state that Astrology is real and has worked for them personally, but that doesn't magically change the fact that astrological forecasts are nothing more than vaguely-worded Barnum Statements. I can find example after example of "circumstantial" evidence that Dowsing is real and absolutely works, that doesn't change the fact that not one single Dowser has ever been able to show their "ability" in any kind of objective test, even ones they agreed beforehand were fair and fitting.

OK, tell you what, I'm in a charitable mood, so convince me. Lets begin with the simple stuff: explain how "something" of an individual can survive death when said "something" is entirely undetectable during life by any means, when every scrap of evidence so far uncovered on the subject suggests that consciousness is an emergent process of the physical brain's chemical and neuroelectrical processes, when said processes terminate upon death, and when said physical brain decomposes shortly thereafter.

After you refute the entirety of humanity's collective knowledge of neuroscience, we can move on to the complicated stuff like explaining the mechanism by which aforementioned "something" transfers from one physical body to the next, and determining where said "something" exists in the period between "incarnations".

Magichead:

KlLLUMINATI:

Magichead:

Actually, no, they don't, they point to the endless human capacity to delude itself, draw causation from correlation, and to leap from "something I personally can't explain has happened" to "if you fail to accept the Lord and Saviour JAYZOOS CAHRAIST you will burn for all eternity!".

Would you care to link to some of those "recorded cases", which I'm sure are published in a reputable peer-reviewed psychology and/or neurology journal, and not some batshit-whackadoodle-new-age-woomeister magazine/badly formatted website that looks like it traveled in time from the 90's?

While these kind of experiences do not provide scientific evidence for the reality of out of body existence, it does provide good circumstantial evidence especially if more than two people are involved.

http://iands.org/nde-stories/17-nde-accounts-from-beyond-the-light.html

Have you ever heard the saying; "the plural of anecdote is not data"? It applies here. Indeed, this is a textbook case.

I can find tens of thousands of "circumstantial" testimonials which emphatically state that Astrology is real and has worked for them personally, but that doesn't magically change the fact that astrological forecasts are nothing more than vaguely-worded Barnum Statements. I can find example after example of "circumstantial" evidence that Dowsing is real and absolutely works, that doesn't change the fact that not one single Dowser has ever been able to show their "ability" in any kind of objective test, even ones they agreed beforehand were fair and fitting.

OK, tell you what, I'm in a charitable mood, so convince me. Lets begin with the simple stuff: explain how "something" of an individual can survive death when said "something" is entirely undetectable during life by any means, when every scrap of evidence so far uncovered on the subject suggests that consciousness is an emergent process of the physical brain's chemical and neuroelectrical processes, when said processes terminate upon death, and when said physical brain decomposes shortly thereafter.

After you refute the entirety of humanity's collective knowledge of neuroscience, we can move on to the complicated stuff like explaining the mechanism by which aforementioned "something" transfers from one physical body to the next, and determining where said "something" exists in the period between "incarnations".

Is this like the idea that because they see certain areas of the brain relate to religious experiences, they think that outlaws relgious experiences? Even some scientists that did that research couldn't say that was for sure. How do we know that God didn't either put the part of the brain to receive these religious experiences, or how do we know that just because of part of the brain is activated by a religious experience, how do we know that these things still are not real, and they just are recorded or experienced in that part of the brain? Neurological science may show where something is recorded, but it doesn't outlaw that something was real or really happened.

KlLLUMINATI:
The innumerable recorded and researched cases of past life experiences clearly point to life after death.

No, they don't. They point the same way that most of the other "inexplicable" religious experiences such as out-of-body experiences, speaking in tongues, and "feeling god's presence" point: brain malfunction. Neuroscience is still a relatively new discipline, to be sure, but it's not that much of a stretch. I mean, this isn't even something like OBEs where it's (allegedly - it's never been demonstrated under conditions with any kind of scientific rigor) possible for the person having them to learn something they couldn't possibly have known. It's simply a delusion. A very intense, personal delusion, but a delusion nonetheless.

In all the recorded cases of reincarnations

Gonna have to stop you right there, because "all the recorded cases of reincarnation" is still 0 if you put up even the slightest bullshit filter. Feel free to try to prove me wrong, but I'm not interested in testimonials. If you don't understand why, I'll be happy to explain it to you, but I really hope you do[1].

KlLLUMINATI:

While these kind of experiences do not provide scientific evidence for the reality of out of body existence, it does provide good circumstantial evidence especially if more than two people are involved.

http://iands.org/nde-stories/17-nde-accounts-from-beyond-the-light.html

I'm currently at number 8, and I'm wondering if it's actually worth my time to continue. Is there a particularly convincing one at some point? I'm getting random testimonials from random people. I really don't want to have to explain, in detail, why such testimonials are an absolutely horrible source to use. They're not evidence. There's no rigor. There's no control. There's no challenge, no investigation, no nothing. If I went to these people and just lied my ass off, they'd almost certainly take my word for it!

Testimonials simply fail on every conceivable level as evidence. Don't believe me? Look at any "alternative medicine" that we now know doesn't work, but still has a following for some reason. Homeopathy. Acupuncture. Chiropractic (in dealing with issues beyond the spinal column). Miracle Mineral Solution[2]. What's the very first thing they offer as proof that their products (which we know don't work beyond the placebo effect) work? Testimonials. Yeah... Call me crazy, but I'm not accepting those as evidence.

But it gets worse. These testimonials even fail miserably at proving what you're trying prove, because the experiences seem to match up extremely well with what one would expect from someone suffering from anoxia, combined with a dash of mental gymnastics. There's nothing in those stories which cannot be explained by the activities of a dying, desperate brain.

KlLLUMINATI:
If you do not beleive in an after life fine but do not act all greater than thou. Like you know something I do not.

Well, imagine if you found a grown man who said he believed in Santa Claus. Would you not feel justified in poking fun at him?

@devil: I'll get to your post in a sec

[1] Short version: Literally 0 scientific rigor. It's like trying to find the answers in a court case with witness testimony when the best you can get is various accounts, often conflicting, from people who may or may not actually have been there, and may or may not have an agenda.

Stagnant:

KlLLUMINATI:
The innumerable recorded and researched cases of past life experiences clearly point to life after death.

No, they don't. They point the same way that most of the other "inexplicable" religious experiences such as out-of-body experiences, speaking in tongues, and "feeling god's presence" point: brain malfunction. Neuroscience is still a relatively new discipline, to be sure, but it's not that much of a stretch. I mean, this isn't even something like OBEs where it's (allegedly - it's never been demonstrated under conditions with any kind of scientific rigor) possible for the person having them to learn something they couldn't possibly have known. It's simply a delusion. A very intense, personal delusion, but a delusion nonetheless.

In all the recorded cases of reincarnations

Gonna have to stop you right there, because "all the recorded cases of reincarnation" is still 0 if you put up even the slightest bullshit filter. Feel free to try to prove me wrong, but I'm not interested in testimonials. If you don't understand why, I'll be happy to explain it to you, but I really hope you do[1].

KlLLUMINATI:

While these kind of experiences do not provide scientific evidence for the reality of out of body existence, it does provide good circumstantial evidence especially if more than two people are involved.

http://iands.org/nde-stories/17-nde-accounts-from-beyond-the-light.html

I'm currently at number 8, and I'm wondering if it's actually worth my time to continue. Is there a particularly convincing one at some point? I'm getting random testimonials from random people. I really don't want to have to explain, in detail, why such testimonials are an absolutely horrible source to use. They're not evidence. There's no rigor. There's no control. There's no challenge, no investigation, no nothing. If I went to these people and just lied my ass off, they'd almost certainly take my word for it!

Testimonials simply fail on every conceivable level as evidence. Don't believe me? Look at any "alternative medicine" that we now know doesn't work, but still has a following for some reason. Homeopathy. Acupuncture. Chiropractic (in dealing with issues beyond the spinal column). Miracle Mineral Solution[2]. What's the very first thing they offer as proof that their products (which we know don't work beyond the placebo effect) work? Testimonials. Yeah... Call me crazy, but I'm not accepting those as evidence.

But it gets worse. These testimonials even fail miserably at proving what you're trying prove, because the experiences seem to match up extremely well with what one would expect from someone suffering from anoxia, combined with a dash of mental gymnastics. There's nothing in those stories which cannot be explained by the activities of a dying, desperate brain.

KlLLUMINATI:
If you do not beleive in an after life fine but do not act all greater than thou. Like you know something I do not.

Well, imagine if you found a grown man who said he believed in Santa Claus. Would you not feel justified in poking fun at him?

@devil: I'll get to your post in a sec

I am not trying to prove or disprove anything I know that there is not scientific evidence it is a matter if you beleive them or not.

[1] Short version: Literally 0 scientific rigor. It's like trying to find the answers in a court case with witness testimony when the best you can get is various accounts, often conflicting, from people who may or may not actually have been there, and may or may not have an agenda.

KlLLUMINATI:
Is this like the idea that because they see certain areas of the brain relate to religious experiences, they think that outlaws relgious experiences? Even some scientists that did that research couldn't say that was for sure. How do we know that God didn't either put the part of the brain to receive these religious experiences, or how do we know that just because of part of the brain is activated by a religious experience, how do we know that these things still are not real, and they just are recorded or experienced in that part of the brain? Neurological science may show where something is recorded, but it doesn't outlaw that something was real or really happened.

Have you ever heard of a principle known as Occam's razor? It states, at its most basic, to not assume more than you have to. For example, we know that penicillin used to work against bacterial infections. We also know that this happens because the fungus causes the cells to break down. Now, it's possible that intangible fairies that live in fungus use magic to cause this effect, but we have a different explanation which doesn't assume anything of the sort, therefore it would be ridiculous to thank the fairies, and similarly ridiculous to claim that the fairies dying out would be the reason penicillin doesn't work as well as it used to.

And this is exactly what we have here. Sure, there could be an invisible god figure pulling the strings behind everything, and it's entirely possible that he created such things in our brain (although that would seem very weak for a god who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and wants us to know him). But it's not reasonable to believe that. There's no good reason to do so.

KlLLUMINATI:

I am not trying to prove or disprove anything I know that there is not scientific evidence it is a matter if you beleive them or not.

But even if you do believe them, their experiences are explained perfectly well by modern neurosciences. They're simply evidence of the overwhelming power of our brains to create delusions.

Lil devils x:
stuff

Okay, that's pretty cool. Why do you believe it?

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist, in either physical or spiritual/energy form, but do you think we just stop being, our energy goes on (like ghosts), or our energy goes somewhere else (as in heaven), or something entirely different.

I'm not sure about my beliefs on the matter.

Are you afraid of the 1800's? Are you afraid of Late Antiquity? If not, then why are you afraid of death? Its not like you had to wait since the Dawn of Time to be born, death cannot bother you any more than not being alive in the 1800's could.

Stagnant:

KlLLUMINATI:
Is this like the idea that because they see certain areas of the brain relate to religious experiences, they think that outlaws relgious experiences? Even some scientists that did that research couldn't say that was for sure. How do we know that God didn't either put the part of the brain to receive these religious experiences, or how do we know that just because of part of the brain is activated by a religious experience, how do we know that these things still are not real, and they just are recorded or experienced in that part of the brain? Neurological science may show where something is recorded, but it doesn't outlaw that something was real or really happened.

Have you ever heard of a principle known as Occam's razor? It states, at its most basic, to not assume more than you have to. For example, we know that penicillin used to work against bacterial infections. We also know that this happens because the fungus causes the cells to break down. Now, it's possible that intangible fairies that live in fungus use magic to cause this effect, but we have a different explanation which doesn't assume anything of the sort, therefore it would be ridiculous to thank the fairies, and similarly ridiculous to claim that the fairies dying out would be the reason penicillin doesn't work as well as it used to.

And this is exactly what we have here. Sure, there could be an invisible god figure pulling the strings behind everything, and it's entirely possible that he created such things in our brain (although that would seem very weak for a god who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and wants us to know him). But it's not reasonable to believe that. There's no good reason to do so.

KlLLUMINATI:

I am not trying to prove or disprove anything I know that there is not scientific evidence it is a matter if you beleive them or not.

But even if you do believe them, their experiences are explained perfectly well by modern neurosciences. They're simply evidence of the overwhelming power of our brains to create delusions.

Lil devils x:
stuff

Okay, that's pretty cool. Why do you believe it?

After falling away from the ways of my people, becoming forcefully assimilated into "civilization", educated in western schools, I decided to research the many different religions and sought out as much about ancient history and the other tribes of the earth as I could. After reviewing everything else, I believe what I was taught from my own tribe made the most sense, and also found common ground among the histories and beliefs of other indigenous peoples of this world, whose history has not been conquered or rewritten by the ruler of the day.

Much of what I was taught as a child has been confirmed with science as well, like Dark spiderwoman, for example. As A child I was taught of dark spiderwoman who sits at the center of galaxies drawing in all that comes near and spinning out the planets and the stars. The location of spiderwoman was well known throughout our tribe, yet civilization was unaware until their own science confirmed it. This is why Sagittarius A is sacred to us, because that is where "dark spiderwoman" exists. That is where the particles that cause us to transform and evolve into different forms comes from. That is what we were taught on how we evolved from other forms of animals into what we are today. Particles sent out from the Spiderwoman (black hole) in the center of our Milky way are what caused the transformations to allow for evolution.

Also, many here feel that science is finally on the right track in regards to crystals as well.
http://www.space.com/6456-life-crystal-code.html

I believe what I have been taught, because to me it is the only explaination I have heard thus far that makes any damned sense.

Stagnant:

KlLLUMINATI:
Is this like the idea that because they see certain areas of the brain relate to religious experiences, they think that outlaws relgious experiences? Even some scientists that did that research couldn't say that was for sure. How do we know that God didn't either put the part of the brain to receive these religious experiences, or how do we know that just because of part of the brain is activated by a religious experience, how do we know that these things still are not real, and they just are recorded or experienced in that part of the brain? Neurological science may show where something is recorded, but it doesn't outlaw that something was real or really happened.

Have you ever heard of a principle known as Occam's razor? It states, at its most basic, to not assume more than you have to. For example, we know that penicillin used to work against bacterial infections. We also know that this happens because the fungus causes the cells to break down. Now, it's possible that intangible fairies that live in fungus use magic to cause this effect, but we have a different explanation which doesn't assume anything of the sort, therefore it would be ridiculous to thank the fairies, and similarly ridiculous to claim that the fairies dying out would be the reason penicillin doesn't work as well as it used to.

And this is exactly what we have here. Sure, there could be an invisible god figure pulling the strings behind everything, and it's entirely possible that he created such things in our brain (although that would seem very weak for a god who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and wants us to know him). But it's not reasonable to believe that. There's no good reason to do so.

KlLLUMINATI:

I am not trying to prove or disprove anything I know that there is not scientific evidence it is a matter if you beleive them or not.

But even if you do believe them, their experiences are explained perfectly well by modern neurosciences. They're simply evidence of the overwhelming power of our brains to create delusions.

Lil devils x:
stuff

Okay, that's pretty cool. Why do you believe it?

Stagnant:

KlLLUMINATI:
Is this like the idea that because they see certain areas of the brain relate to religious experiences, they think that outlaws relgious experiences? Even some scientists that did that research couldn't say that was for sure. How do we know that God didn't either put the part of the brain to receive these religious experiences, or how do we know that just because of part of the brain is activated by a religious experience, how do we know that these things still are not real, and they just are recorded or experienced in that part of the brain? Neurological science may show where something is recorded, but it doesn't outlaw that something was real or really happened.

Have you ever heard of a principle known as Occam's razor? It states, at its most basic, to not assume more than you have to. For example, we know that penicillin used to work against bacterial infections. We also know that this happens because the fungus causes the cells to break down. Now, it's possible that intangible fairies that live in fungus use magic to cause this effect, but we have a different explanation which doesn't assume anything of the sort, therefore it would be ridiculous to thank the fairies, and similarly ridiculous to claim that the fairies dying out would be the reason penicillin doesn't work as well as it used to.

And this is exactly what we have here. Sure, there could be an invisible god figure pulling the strings behind everything, and it's entirely possible that he created such things in our brain (although that would seem very weak for a god who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and wants us to know him). But it's not reasonable to believe that. There's no good reason to do so.

KlLLUMINATI:

I am not trying to prove or disprove anything I know that there is not scientific evidence it is a matter if you beleive them or not.

But even if you do believe them, their experiences are explained perfectly well by modern neurosciences. They're simply evidence of the overwhelming power of our brains to create delusions.

Lil devils x:
stuff

Okay, that's pretty cool. Why do you believe it?

Ockham himself was a theist.In his view an explanation which does not harmonize with reason experience. However, unlike many theologians of his time he did not believe God could be logically proven with arguments.

I believe their stories because people that have never met tell the same exact story.

Hyper-space:

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist, in either physical or spiritual/energy form, but do you think we just stop being, our energy goes on (like ghosts), or our energy goes somewhere else (as in heaven), or something entirely different.

I'm not sure about my beliefs on the matter.

Are you afraid of the 1800's? Are you afraid of Late Antiquity? If not, then why are you afraid of death? Its not like you had to wait since the Dawn of Time to be born, death cannot bother you any more than not being alive in the 1800's could.

I am not affraid of death everybody will die. The day which we fear as our last is but the birthday of eternity.

KlLLUMINATI:
Ockham himself was a theist. In his view an explanation which does not harmonize with reason experience. However, unlike many theologians of his time he did not believe God could be logically proven with arguments.

Ockham also lived long before we knew anything about cosmology, abiogenesis, or evolution. There was nothing other than god in the human understanding to explain the origins of life, the universe, and everything[1].

I believe their stories because people that have never met tell the same exact story.

A couple problems with this:

1. This doesn't address the fact that modern neuroscience still explains all of this perfectly well - it fits with absolutely no need to put god into the picture at all.
2. This is not a general rule to follow. There are many people who have had NDEs and claimed to have seen Allah, and many who claimed to see Jesus. Wanna take a guess how good the matching is between people with religious NDEs and people of religious faith? Even then, there are positive and negative NDEs, NDEs with pets, NDEs without... And that's just from the first few examples that you linked me to!
3. We would expect very similar symptoms of a medical disorder. For example, going out of the darkness and towards the light is entirely typical of tunnel vision. The problem, of course, being that the brain throws a lot of junk in there most of the time, but still...

Lil devils x:
After falling away from the ways of my people, becoming forcefully assimilated into "civilization", educated in western schools, I decided to research the many different religions and sought out as much about ancient history and the other tribes of the earth as I could. After reviewing everything else, I believe what I was taught from my own tribe made the most sense, and also found common ground among the histories and beliefs of other indigenous peoples of this world, whose history has not been conquered or rewritten by the ruler of the day.

Much of what I was taught as a child has been confirmed with science as well, like Dark spiderwoman, for example. As A child I was taught of dark spiderwoman who sits at the center of galaxies drawing in all that comes near and spinning out the planets and the stars. The location of spiderwoman was well known throughout our tribe, yet civilization was unaware until their own science confirmed it. This is why Sagittarius A is sacred to us, because that is where "dark spiderwoman" exists. That is where the particles that cause us to transform and evolve into different forms comes from. That is what we were taught on how we evolved from other forms of animals into what we are today. Particles sent out from the Spiderwoman (black hole) in the center of our Milky way are what caused the transformations to allow for evolution.

Also, many here feel that science is finally on the right track in regards to crystals as well.
http://www.space.com/6456-life-crystal-code.html

I believe what I have been taught, because to me it is the only explaination I have heard thus far that makes any damned sense.

...I'm not touching this with a 10-foot barge pole. Thanks for the explanation, but holy shit I think I don't wanna hear the rest of it.

[1] Later, the source was found to be Douglas Adams.

Stagnant:

KlLLUMINATI:
Ockham himself was a theist. In his view an explanation which does not harmonize with reason experience. However, unlike many theologians of his time he did not believe God could be logically proven with arguments.

Ockham also lived long before we knew anything about cosmology, abiogenesis, or evolution. There was nothing other than god in the human understanding to explain the origins of life, the universe, and everything[1].

I believe their stories because people that have never met tell the same exact story.

A couple problems with this:

1. This doesn't address the fact that modern neuroscience still explains all of this perfectly well - it fits with absolutely no need to put god into the picture at all.
2. This is not a general rule to follow. There are many people who have had NDEs and claimed to have seen Allah, and many who claimed to see Jesus. Wanna take a guess how good the matching is between people with religious NDEs and people of religious faith? Even then, there are positive and negative NDEs, NDEs with pets, NDEs without... And that's just from the first few examples that you linked me to!
3. We would expect very similar symptoms of a medical disorder. For example, going out of the darkness and towards the light is entirely typical of tunnel vision. The problem, of course, being that the brain throws a lot of junk in there most of the time, but still...

Lil devils x:
After falling away from the ways of my people, becoming forcefully assimilated into "civilization", educated in western schools, I decided to research the many different religions and sought out as much about ancient history and the other tribes of the earth as I could. After reviewing everything else, I believe what I was taught from my own tribe made the most sense, and also found common ground among the histories and beliefs of other indigenous peoples of this world, whose history has not been conquered or rewritten by the ruler of the day.

Much of what I was taught as a child has been confirmed with science as well, like Dark spiderwoman, for example. As A child I was taught of dark spiderwoman who sits at the center of galaxies drawing in all that comes near and spinning out the planets and the stars. The location of spiderwoman was well known throughout our tribe, yet civilization was unaware until their own science confirmed it. This is why Sagittarius A is sacred to us, because that is where "dark spiderwoman" exists. That is where the particles that cause us to transform and evolve into different forms comes from. That is what we were taught on how we evolved from other forms of animals into what we are today. Particles sent out from the Spiderwoman (black hole) in the center of our Milky way are what caused the transformations to allow for evolution.

Also, many here feel that science is finally on the right track in regards to crystals as well.
http://www.space.com/6456-life-crystal-code.html

I believe what I have been taught, because to me it is the only explaination I have heard thus far that makes any damned sense.

...I'm not touching this with a 10-foot barge pole. Thanks for the explanation, but holy shit I think I don't wanna hear the rest of it.

LOL why? Are you still not ready to hear the natives explanation of how things came to be where they are now? :P
Though science is getting closer:
http://www.space.com/1670-astronomers-surprised-stars-born-black-hole.html

[1] Later, the source was found to be Douglas Adams.

Stagnant:

KlLLUMINATI:
Ockham himself was a theist. In his view an explanation which does not harmonize with reason experience. However, unlike many theologians of his time he did not believe God could be logically proven with arguments.

Ockham also lived long before we knew anything about cosmology, abiogenesis, or evolution. There was nothing other than god in the human understanding to explain the origins of life, the universe, and everything[1].

I believe their stories because people that have never met tell the same exact story.

A couple problems with this:

1. This doesn't address the fact that modern neuroscience still explains all of this perfectly well - it fits with absolutely no need to put god into the picture at all.
2. This is not a general rule to follow. There are many people who have had NDEs and claimed to have seen Allah, and many who claimed to see Jesus. Wanna take a guess how good the matching is between people with religious NDEs and people of religious faith? Even then, there are positive and negative NDEs, NDEs with pets, NDEs without... And that's just from the first few examples that you linked me to!
3. We would expect very similar symptoms of a medical disorder. For example, going out of the darkness and towards the light is entirely typical of tunnel vision. The problem, of course, being that the brain throws a lot of junk in there most of the time, but still...

Lil devils x:
After falling away from the ways of my people, becoming forcefully assimilated into "civilization", educated in western schools, I decided to research the many different religions and sought out as much about ancient history and the other tribes of the earth as I could. After reviewing everything else, I believe what I was taught from my own tribe made the most sense, and also found common ground among the histories and beliefs of other indigenous peoples of this world, whose history has not been conquered or rewritten by the ruler of the day.

Much of what I was taught as a child has been confirmed with science as well, like Dark spiderwoman, for example. As A child I was taught of dark spiderwoman who sits at the center of galaxies drawing in all that comes near and spinning out the planets and the stars. The location of spiderwoman was well known throughout our tribe, yet civilization was unaware until their own science confirmed it. This is why Sagittarius A is sacred to us, because that is where "dark spiderwoman" exists. That is where the particles that cause us to transform and evolve into different forms comes from. That is what we were taught on how we evolved from other forms of animals into what we are today. Particles sent out from the Spiderwoman (black hole) in the center of our Milky way are what caused the transformations to allow for evolution.

Also, many here feel that science is finally on the right track in regards to crystals as well.
http://www.space.com/6456-life-crystal-code.html

I believe what I have been taught, because to me it is the only explaination I have heard thus far that makes any damned sense.

...I'm not touching this with a 10-foot barge pole. Thanks for the explanation, but holy shit I think I don't wanna hear the rest of it.

It does not really matter we will all know one day. I will send you a postcard.

Everybody will die, not everybody truly lives~ William Wallce

Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is. -Yoda

[1] Later, the source was found to be Douglas Adams.

KlLLUMINATI:
It does not really matter we will all know one day. I will send you a postcard.

"I have no rational grounding for my belief nor a justifiable explanation for why I believe it which doesn't make me look stupid, therefore I'll just drop it and claim something condescending that makes me sound mature and thoughtful!"

Everybody will die, not everybody truly lives~ William Wallce

Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is. -Yoda

"And then I'll quote other, smarter people as though it was justification!"

Ladies and gentlemen, the supernatural thinker!

Lil devils x:
LOL why? Are you still not ready to hear the natives explanation of how things came to be where they are now? :P
Though science is getting closer:
http://www.space.com/1670-astronomers-surprised-stars-born-black-hole.html

I'm just not that interested in debate with you. I could go into detail about confirmation bias, post-hoc rationalizations, and allegorical beliefs, but I'm just not that interested in it, really, especially as it's not a field I have much knowledge on.

I'm glad you explained so much to me, though. ^_^

Stagnant:

KlLLUMINATI:
It does not really matter we will all know one day. I will send you a postcard.

"I have no rational grounding for my belief nor a justifiable explanation for why I believe it which doesn't make me look stupid, therefore I'll just drop it and claim something condescending that makes me sound mature and thoughtful!"

Everybody will die, not everybody truly lives~ William Wallce

Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is. -Yoda

"And then I'll quote other, smarter people as though it was justification!"

Ladies and gentlemen, the supernatural thinker!

Lil devils x:
LOL why? Are you still not ready to hear the natives explanation of how things came to be where they are now? :P
Though science is getting closer:
http://www.space.com/1670-astronomers-surprised-stars-born-black-hole.html

I'm just not that interested in debate with you. I could go into detail about confirmation bias, post-hoc rationalizations, and allegorical beliefs, but I'm just not that interested in it, really, especially as it's not a field I have much knowledge on.

I'm glad you explained so much to me, though. ^_^

Wow you are very ignorant every single reason you have mentioned there is zero proof to back it up.Science is nothing more than a hypothesis there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. When you find an absolute truth in science let me know.

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